Enoch?

[Willowbirch]

What about the book of Enoch?

[Shammu]

It is not in the Bible, the book of Enoch.

I searched on google.

 What is the Book of Enoch and where did it come from?
Enoch was the grandfather of Noah. The Book of Enoch chapter 68:1 "And after that my grandfather Enoch gave me all the secrets in the book and in the parables which had been given to him, and he put them together for me in the words of the book of the parables." This makes it possible for the Book to have survived the flood as its not too hard to accept that Noah would have taken his Great Grandfathers writings with him onto the ark.

The Book of Enoch was extant centuries before the birth of Christ and yet is considered by many to be more Christian in its theology than Jewish. It was considered scripture by many early Christians. The earliest literature of the so-called "Church Fathers" is filled with references to this mysterious book. The early second century "Epistle of Barnabus" makes much use of the Book of Enoch. Second and Third Century "Church Fathers" like Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origin and Clement of Alexandria all make use of the Book of Enoch. Tertullian (160-230 C.E) even called the Book of Enoch "Holy Scripture". The Ethiopic Church even added the Book of Enoch to its official canon. It was widely known and read the first three centuries after Christ. This and many other books became discredited after the Council of Laodicea. And being under ban of the authorities, afterwards it gradually passed out of circulation.

The Book of Enoch is divided into five basic parts, but it is the The Book of Parables (37-71) which gives scholars the most trouble for it is primarily concerned with a figure called "the messiah"; "the righteous one"; "the chosen one" and "the son of man."
Chapter 46:1-2 [1] There I beheld the Ancient of days whose head was like white wool, and with him another, whose countenance resembled that of a man. His countenance was full of grace, like that of one of the holy angels. Then I inquired of one of the angels, who went with me, and who showed me every secret thing, concerning this Son of man; who he was; whence he was; and why he accompanied the Ancient of days. [2] He answered and said to me, This is the Son of man, to whom righteousness belongs; with whom righteousness has dwealt; and who will reveal all the treasures of that which is concealed: for the Lord of spirits has chosen him; and his portion has surpassed all before the Lord of spirits in everlasting uprightness."

 The opening verses of the Book of Enoch tell us that the revelations in this book were not meant for Enoch's generation, rather a remote generation, and of course the book would make more sense to the generations after Christ. We know that the early Church made use of the Book of Enoch, but it was then all but lost, until recent times. Perhaps this book was meant for our generation, as it is widely available today after being concealed for over a millennia.

(Enoch 1:1-3) The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his parable and said -Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come.
http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/enoch.htm

I myself at the moment wouldn't trust, the book of Enoch. The book had disappeared to long. For the lenght of time, the book was gone. This now could be a forgery, written by man.
Bob

[Willowbirch]

(Wow. He's fast.)

[Shammu]

(Wow. He's fast.)

Who?
or the kid?

[Willowbirch]

The oldest copies we have today of the book of Enoch date from 200-100 BC, which is also the oldest date for copies of the Biblical documents (discovered in the 1940's-1960's in the caves of Qumran).
It is true that Enoch is much less well-preserved than the Bible; there are at least five different versions of Enoch, similar but certainly not identical, and there have been additions obviously made by the Essenes or a similar people. (interesting to note: the oldest version we have of the book of Isaiah, discovered around 1950, was compared to the more recent copies that Bible translators had been using up until that time, and there were almost no differences between manuscripts.)

I just find Enoch fascinating, though; even if it isn't scripture.

Another question: when Paul informs Timothy that all scripture is God-breathed, and is useful for teaching, rebuking correcting and training in righteousness...this statement was made before Enoch (and the apocrypha) had been filtered out of our Bible;
and I find it interesting that Jude puts a quote from Enoch to work in precisely the manner scripture is meant to be used.

 

[Willowbirch]

(Wow. He's fast.)

Who?
or the kid?

[Shammu]

What I said about the Book of Enoch, can easily go for the apocrypha.

Bob

[Dyskolos]

I just find Enoch fascinating, though; even if it isn't scripture.

Actually, it is Scripture, for some Christians at least. It is in the Canon of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. It is possibly the oldest Christian organization on earth.

[Allinall]

(Wow. He's fast.)

Who?
or the kid?

hehehehee!  I love Calvin and Hobbes!  Good'n DW.

[Shylynne]

I just find Enoch fascinating, though; even if it isn't scripture.

Actually, it is Scripture, for some Christians at least. It is in the Canon of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. It is possibly the oldest Christian organization on earth.

I think its fascinating too!
But ...sometimes the fence is a good place to sit and ponder  

[Willowbirch]

I just find Enoch fascinating, though; even if it isn't scripture.

Actually, it is Scripture, for some Christians at least. It is in the Canon of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. It is possibly the oldest Christian organization on earth.

Yes, I thought that was interesting; I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that a lot of the older copies of our Bible and apocryphal documents were copied in the Ethiopian language? Or perhaps Enoch is closer to that region anyway (and their history) if that makes any sense?

Also, the story of Enoch occurs in a time period before the Israeli nation appears; we don't hear a great deal of history in Moses's writings until Abraham, since the Old Testament deals predominantly with Israel and her relationship to God.

I think its fascinating too!
But ...sometimes the fence is a good place to sit and ponder  

  I've sat on enough fence posts to get calluses.

[Shylynne]

So have I, maybe its a farm gal thing!  

The debate is long over this book, and I`ve read much about it, but not much of the book itself.  As I understand it, the reason its not part of the books of the Bible is because the Catholics didnt have proof of validity   They did debate over adding  it, (as they did several others books, as say the book of James) and its referenced too and quoted from in the Bible several times, and is considered by many Bible scholars to be a valuable historical record, all which makes it very interesting to me, certainly not something I`d discard simply because it was`nt included in the books that were chosen to be part of the Bible.

[Evangelist]

FWIW....as far as any historical writing is concerned, they can be a valuable asset as long as what they have to say is in agreement with scripture.  That disagreement concerning some apocryphal writings is primarily because there was (a) disagreement with unquestionable scripture, or (b) the quality of the writing in both style and content was little more than a rehash of what other unquestioned scripture already said.

In any case, the Word stands sure and solid, and is the ruler by which all else is measured.

[Willowbirch]

In any case, the Word stands sure and solid, and is the ruler by which all else is measured.

[Symphony]

Genesis 5:21-24    When Enoch had lived sixty-five years, he became the father of Methuselah.  Enoch walked with God after the birth of Methuselah three hundred years, and had other sons and daughters.  Thus all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years.  Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.  


Willowburch:    Another question: when Paul informs Timothy that all scripture is God-breathed, and is useful for teaching, rebuking correcting and training in righteousness...this statement was made before Enoch (and the apocrypha) had been filtered out of our Bible;
and I find it interesting that Jude puts a quote from Enoch to work in precisely the manner scripture is meant to be used.

Symphony:   so then the q. becomes what is *all scripture*?

Now there's the question of the millineum:  What is 'all' scripture.  Hehe.  Does that include comic books?  Theatre plays?  Artistic performances?  Judicial proceedings from secular courts?  Personal diaries or journals of the rich and famous?  Personal diaries of anybody at all?  Famous literary works - Shakespeare, John Bunyan's Pilgrims Progress, etc.?

Hehe.  How do you define 'all scripture'.

In any event, so then the book of Enoch was useful for training and correction, and perhaps other apocrophyl books, until the canon 'filtered' them out.