Jesus is Lord

[ollie]

God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ.

[Brother Love]

God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ.

Yes!


Brother Love

[ollie]

 Romans 14:7.  For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
 8.  For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
 9.  For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
 

[Shiro]

Truth. The Son of God is also Lord and Christ.

[ollie]

Matthew 1:22.  Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
 23.  Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

[Ambassador4Christ]

Truth. The Son of God is also Lord and Christ.

AMEN

Lord of lords and King of kings

[ebia]

Jesus is Lord

Yep.

God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ.

What sort of heresy is this?

Nicene Creed:

... I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, only son of the Father, [...] begotten not made ,...

Are any of you guys actually thinking about what you are reading and writing?

[Petro]

Acts 2
36  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

This verse speaks of Jesus's glorification..
 

Heresy??  Not quite..


Interlinear reads as follows:

Acts 2
36  Assuredly therefore let know all [the] house of Israel that both Lord and Christ Him God made, this Jesus whom ye crucified.

It is not speaking of God creating Him, nor making Him a Lord and Savior, this statement is directed to the Jews.

They had crucified Gods annointed one, and the coming of the Hole Spirit was evidfence thyat Jesus had been exalted in the heavenlies (see Jhn 7:39)

[ebia]

Do you subscribe to the Nicene Creed or not?  It's quite clear about "begotten NOT made", so either there's something funny going on in translation, or Peter didn't know the full story at that point.  (I'm betting on the latter.)

Heresy??  Not quite..

If it disagrees with the creed, it's heresy.

[AngelicMan]

Our Lord Jesus Christ is the only Lord and God of heaven and earth. All power is His.

Harry

[Petro]

Do you subscribe to the Nicene Creed or not?  It's quite clear about "begotten NOT made", so either there's something funny going on in translation, or Peter didn't know the full story at that point.  (I'm betting on the latter.)

Heresy??  Not quite..

If it disagrees with the creed, it's heresy.

ebia,

You place to much emphasis on what man, subscribes to, the Nicene Creed finally settled on by the eastern and western Roman Catholic institution,  is a Semi-Pelegian statement, you can have it as far as I concerned, but if you are reffering to the Protestant version, I believe it.

But, the reality of it is this, it is not inspired, but we know the scriptures are.

So when it comes to believing scripture over man's confessionals, I will take the scriptures hands down every time.



Blessings,

Petro

[ebia]

Do you subscribe to the Nicene Creed or not?  It's quite clear about "begotten NOT made", so either there's something funny going on in translation, or Peter didn't know the full story at that point.  (I'm betting on the latter.)

Heresy??  Not quite..

If it disagrees with the creed, it's heresy.

ebia,

You place to much emphasis on what man, subscribes to, the Nicene Creed finally settled on by the eastern and western Roman Catholic institution,  is a Semi-Pelegian statement, you can have it as far as I concerned, but if you are reffering to the Protestant version, I believe it.

But, the reality of it is this, it is not inspired, but we know the scriptures are.

So when it comes to believing scripture over man's confessionals, I will take the scriptures hands down every time.

The (so called) nicene creed is the product of the whole church of the time. There's some variation in translations of it, but what is this "protestant version" of which you speak?

The creed is the product of the same early church that decided which books were sufficiently inspired to make up scripture - why would you believe the Holy Spirit guided the church in one endevour and not in the other.

Anyway, either you believe it or you don't - which is it to be?

[ebia]

[quote Nicene Creed [...],  is a Semi-Pelegian statement,

   
How on earth do you arrive at that?

[Petro]

[quote Nicene Creed [...],  is a Semi-Pelegian statement,

   
How on earth do you arrive at that?

ebia,

It is a historical fact, the Nicene Creed is a negotiated instrument, brought about by the heretical doctrines, embraced by the  east nand west, which threatened the break up of the Roman church, the Carthaginian synod of 412  condemned Pelegius, the turbulent years within the Roman Catholic institution included their first  six ecumenical councils (325-681).

It was during the time of Augustine, when he was actually out of step with the church of his time, he stressed to much inner Christisan life and to little of the external ceremonies.  

He denied that the eucharist had any sin atoning power apart from the faith of the partaker. Aolthough he advocated asceticism, he denied that it had any value apart from transformation of life into Christlikeness.

He opposed the predominant sacramental method of achieving salvation.  

Unfortunately, his own statements about the value of baptism and his confusion between justification and sanctification contributed to the weakening of his legacy.

So although Pelegianism was condemned, a sort of semi-pelegianism won out, a system of which grace and human works were to join  in achieving salvation, within the framework of the church and the sacramental system, as it is today, both within Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

Here is a site;

http://www.sullivan-county.com/z/pelagius2.htm

explaining how it came to be, actually this site is pro semi peligianism, as I see it.

The Nicene Creed, which is endorsed by these intitutions, if read, very carefullly, can be interpreted, by both camps, as it suits them, thus the peace between them.

Petro

[Petro]

ebia,

you said;

The (so called) nicene creed is the product of the whole church of the time.

So what??

There's some variation in translations of it,[/quote

This is the reason I would never commit muyself to anyone, without frist reading it.

but what is this "protestant version" of which you speak?

The Westminister confession fo Faith 1646, it is not a three paragraph document, trying to articulate everything that need sto be stated, so as to leave no doubt in peoples minds, what is believed.

The creed is the product of the same early church that decided which books were sufficiently inspired to make up scripture

I am afraid you've shot your foot with this statement.

The OT was already an excepted cannon, by the year 95 AD, the NT was in existence before the Roman Catholic church, decided which books were which, officially this was not determined by them uintil ther 16th century.

- why would you believe the Holy Spirit guided the church in one endevour and not in the other.

Because the spirit abandoned this institutions when the Christians left it. Then of course it, the institution began its persecution of Christians, I sm sure you have read the history ofm it.

Anyway, either you believe it or you don't - which is it to be?

I do believe.  The inspired version. that is..........


Blessings
Petro