women pastors?

[I_Believe]

This question was recently posted on another web site.  What scripture would you suggest?

I have always accepted the belief that I was brought up with- that women should not be pastors. However, I have recently been challenged with that question, and now I am not sure.

It's not that I want to become a pastor myself, but rather I am considering attending a church (on a regular basis) that has a man and his wife as joint pastors.

Where in the Bible should I look to answer this question? I just need some general guidance, so I can do some more research. I want to find not only straightforward verse references, but a believable context also.

I know that this can be a divisive issue so please let us purpose to remain civil and scripturally centered.

[Evangelist]

Hi I_Believe:

If you will check this link Women in Ministry, it is a downloadable pdf of a study on women in ministry based on scripture and context.

Hope it is of some help. I'll be standing by if you wish to discuss it.

[Brother Love]

Hi I_Believe:

If you will check this link Women in Ministry, it is a downloadable pdf of a study on women in ministry based on scripture and context.

Hope it is of some help. I'll be standing by if you wish to discuss it.

Its a "FORBIDDEN" Study for me

[I_Believe]

The OT law was fulfilled in Christ. Be Jesus and Paul both gave us commands in the NT.

For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under Law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under Law, but under grace? Let it not be! (Rom 6:14-15)

If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and remain in his love. I have spoken these things to you, that my joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be made full. (Joh 15:10-11)

Only, as the Lord has distributed to each man, as God has called each, so let him walk. So I command in all the assemblies. (1Co 7:17)

But in giving you this command, I don't praise you, that you come together not for the better but for the worse. (1Co 11:17)

I solemnly command you by the Lord that this letter be read to all the holy brothers. (1Th 5:27)

We have confidence in the Lord concerning you, that you both do and will do the things we command. May the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patience of Christ. Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother who walks in rebellion, and not after the tradition which they received from us. (2Th 3:4-6)

As I urged you when I was going into Macedonia, stay at Ephesus that you might command certain men not to teach a different doctrine...but the goal of this command is love, out of a pure heart and a good conscience and unfeigned faith;...But we know that the law is good, if a man uses it lawfully, as knowing this, that law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and insubordinate...and for any other thing contrary to the sound doctrine; 1Ti 1:3-10)

Command and teach these things. Let no man despise your youth; but be an example to those who believe, in word, in your way of life, in love, in spirit, in faith, and in purity. Until I come, pay attention to reading, to exhortation, and to teaching. (1Ti 4:11-13)

Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and in teaching. For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle the ox when it treads out the grain." And, "The laborer is worthy of his wages." Don't receive an accusation against an elder, except at the word of two or three witnesses. Those who sin, reprove in the sight of all, that the rest also may be in fear. I command you in the sight of God, and Christ Jesus, and the chosen angels, that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing by partiality. (1Ti 5:17-21)


---

Therefore, I desire that men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In the same way also, I desire that women adorn themselves in decent clothing, with modesty and sensibleness, not adorned with braiding, or gold, or pearls, or costly clothing, but with good works, which becomes women professing godliness. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I do not allow a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. But she will be kept safe through childbearing, if they continue in faith and love and holiness with sensibleness. (1Ti 2:8-15)

Be imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ. But I praise you, brothers, that you remember me in all things, and you keep the doctrines as I delivered them to you. But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered dishonors his Head. But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head;...For a man indeed ought not to have his head covered, because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman, but the woman of the man. Nor was the man created for the woman, but the woman for the man...But in giving you this command, I don't praise you, that you come together not for the better but for the worse. (1Co 11:1-17)

And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women be silent in the churches; for it is not permitted to them to speak, but to be in subjection, as the Law also says. And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home; for it is a shame for a woman to speak in a church. Or did the Word of God go out from you? Or did it reach only to you? If anyone thinks to be a prophet, or a spiritual one, let him recognize the things I write to you, that they are a commandment of the Lord. But if any is ignorant, let him be ignorant. So then, brothers, seek to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in languages. Let all things be done decently and in order. (1Co 14:32-40)

Therefore exhort one another, and build each other up, even as you also do. But we beg you, brothers, to know those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you, and to respect and honor them in love for their work's sake. Be at peace among yourselves. (1Th 5:11-13)

Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they watch on behalf of your souls, as those who will give account, that they may do this with joy, and not with groaning, for that would be unprofitable for you. (Heb 13:17)

The main context of Paul's letter to Timothy was guidelines for Church leadership and order in the assembly.

Faithful is the Word: If anyone reaches out to overseership, he desires a good work. Then it behooves the overseer to be without reproach, husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, well-ordered, hospitable, apt at teaching,...(For if a man does not know to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) not a novice, lest being puffed up he may fall into the condemnation of the Devil...Even so their wives are to be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things...I write these things to you, hoping to come to you shortly. But if I should delay, that you may know how you ought to behave in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. (1Ti 3:1-15)

Note: Emphasis mine.

[Brother Love]

super kid, who is your Apostle?


You need to Read the whole chapter of Acts 2


THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE PENTECOSTAL BELIEVERS

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=4705

[I_Believe]

SO HOW COME IF IT A COMMAND OF GOD THE PEOPLE WHO PUT DOWN WOMEN DON'T DESIRE EARNESTLY TO PROHESY AND FORBIT TO SPEAK WITH TONGUES OR MANIFEST OTHER SPIRITUAL GIFTS AS GIFTS OF HEALING AND MIRACLES?

Please clarify how this relates to woman pastors.

It sounds like you are saying that some folks don't desire these spiritual gifts and because of this we are to ignore clear scripture regarding how women are to participate in the "Church".

Also, who are "THE PEOPLE WHO PUT DOWN WOMEN"?

[super kid]

Yes people are hypocrites. They pick and choose what they like. They put down spiritual gifts and put down women when Jesus never did such kind of things. He didn't discriminate against women like other men do and He didn't deny miracles:

MT 4:24 Then His fame went throughout all Syria; and they brought to Him all sick people who were afflicted with various diseases and torments, and those who were demon-possessed, epileptics, and paralytics; and He healed them.

[Brother Love]

Pentecostal Confusion - Charismatic Movement


In Acts chapter two Luke tells us "that there were dwelling at Jerusalem JEWS, devout men, out of every nation under heaven" (verse 5), along with Peter's words: "Ye men of Judea (verse 14), "Ye men of Israel" (verse 22), and "Therefore let all the house of Israel know" (verse 36), and "Repent , and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" (verse 38).

Note that four times Peter, at Pentecost indicated that he was addressing only Jews, or Israelites. Are you a Jew living in the age of Israel? Then this is for you! But if you are a Jew or a Gentile living in the Dispensation of Grace then what Paul had to say is for you.

Paul was the Apostle of the Gentiles. We need Eph. 2:8-9. "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God," So the problem is that Peter says "I am speaking to you men of Israel," while in Romans 11:13 Paul clearly states "I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gntiles"

The great Pentecostal Confusion comes from millions of Gentile believers blindly following their leaders in listening to and heeding Peter's message instead of listening to Paul.

[super kid]

You cannot deny the fact that  people are hypocrites. They pick and choose what they like. They put down spiritual gifts and put down women when Jesus never did such kind of things. He didn't discriminate against women like other men do and He didn't deny miracles:

MT 4:24 Then His fame went throughout all Syria; and they brought to Him all sick people who were afflicted with various diseases and torments, and those who were demon-possessed, epileptics, and paralytics; and He healed them.

And dispensation is just a doctrine of demons that rob people of their birth right! It has existed only for less than 200 years! The gospel is good news of how we are justified by faith and have become sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. But to be saved is not only to repent of our sins and transgression and to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins but to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit as well as His Spiritual gifts including wisdom, knowledge, faith and tongues and to live and walk by the same Holy Spirit. To be saved is not to keep a set of rules or to conduct bible studies. God is still on the throne.  He still has all power, and He still saves, heals and delivers all of those who will yield to Him.  Nothing is too hard for the Lord.  All good and perfect gifts come from God.  Hence the Bible tells us in Hebrews 4:16 that we can come boldly to the throne of grace.  The blood of Jesus brings us nigh to God, and we can approach the throne any time we have a need. God is good, and He is faithful to those who put their faith and trust in Him.  God has all things needed for soul, mind and body.  We need not go lacking for anything for God is more than will to save us. Everything we need can be supplied through the divine blood of Jesus.   We can expect God to move and bring deliverance for all things needed.  We can thank and praise Him in advance for what He is going to do.  There is none as mighty as He, and He really does love us!
The Holy Spirit, the Helper, has come to be to us all that Jesus was to His disciples. He has come to guide us into all truths and to give us God’s best in everything. He wants to be a real close friend and Helper to us just like Jesus was to His disciples.  He is the Third Person of the Trinity, the personality in the order of the Godhead.  He is in charge of the affairs of the kingdom of God and is the Chief Executor of divine programs on the earth.  He is the Motivator, Energizer and Operator of every revealed plan or vision from God.  He is the Revealer of the hidden treasures of the kingdom of God.  He holds the key to the inheritance of the saints of God. He is the most valuable asset to Christian living.  He is the central figure in any breakthrough in life. He is the only One worth leaning on. He has come to reveal wisdom, knowledge, abilities, enablements and mysteries to us to show us our significance, value and power.  He has come to reveal our God-nature to us and cause us to live in a new dimension.  He has come to comfort us! He’s our invisible Partner, who causes things to work for us that won’t work for others.  He gives us the mind of Christ! Hence we are to trust Him with everything big or small and aren’t to do anything without Him!  

The Holy Spirit uses the word of God to instruct, minister and reveal truth to us.  His wisdom is supernatural and as we yield to His wisdom and power we become successful and prosperous and victorious. He pours the love of God into our hearts (Romans 5:5) and enables us to live a life of love towards God and others. However He can be grieved when there is envy, bitterness, strife, foolishness, pride or unforgiveness. He can be grieved when we reject the truth or allow ourselves to be deceived. Yes, these things prevent Him from giving us the answers we need for our life. But though His anointing and giftings we can do all kinds of things.

God has created His people not to live by bread alone but by ever word that proceeds from the mouth of God including new manna each new day. Yesterday’s word becomes stale and we need each day the new word breathed upon and made real by the Spirit of God. God who is a jealous God has also ordained that He would be their source of total supply, not others.

[I_Believe]

Yes people are hypocrites. They pick and choose what they like. They put down spiritual gifts and put down women when Jesus never did such kind of things. He didn't discriminate against women like other men do and He didn't deny miracles:

MT 4:24 Then His fame went throughout all Syria; and they brought to Him all sick people who were afflicted with various diseases and torments, and those who were demon-possessed, epileptics, and paralytics; and He healed them.

"put down women"

This may be occurring somewhere out there but I have not seen that attitude in this thread.

[super kid]

Why is this tread representative of all of Christianity? Does it have women pastors. Do it's posters cast out demons and pray for the sick like the Bible tells them too?

Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
16:17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
16:18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

James 5:14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
5:15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
5:16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.
5:17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months.
5:18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit.

[Brother Love]

Super kid, I will pray that you open your bible and study further and seek Gods Words and not your church doctrine.

[I_Believe]

Why is this tread representative of all of Christianity? Does it have women pastors. Do it's posters cast out demons and pray for the sick like the Bible tells them too?

Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
16:17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
16:18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

James 5:14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
5:15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
5:16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.
5:17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months.
5:18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit.

You tell me...are they?  Please also tell me how this relates to the topic of this thread.

Stating all the wrongs in the world doesn't change what scripture says about women as pastors.

It would be helpful to post some scripture that is related to the topic of the thread.


Grace and peace.

[super kid]

I beleive God's word. It states:

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.  There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.  And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,  to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.  1 Corinthians 12:4-11

Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.  And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 1 Corinthians 12:27-28

Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.  For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.  He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.  I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification. 1 Corinthians 14:1-5

[I_Believe]

I beleive God's word. It states:

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.  There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.  And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,  to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.  1 Corinthians 12:4-11

Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.  And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 1 Corinthians 12:27-28

Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.  For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.  He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.  I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification. 1 Corinthians 14:1-5

Are you quoting these verses to show that women are to Pastor churches?

There is additional scripture that clarifies the use of these gifts within the church/assembly.

Therefore, I desire that men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In the same way also, I desire that women adorn themselves in decent clothing, with modesty and sensibleness, not adorned with braiding, or gold, or pearls, or costly clothing, but with good works, which becomes women professing godliness. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I do not allow a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. But she will be kept safe through childbearing, if they continue in faith and love and holiness with sensibleness. (1Ti 2:8-15)

Be imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ. But I praise you, brothers, that you remember me in all things, and you keep the doctrines as I delivered them to you. But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered dishonors his Head. But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head;...For a man indeed ought not to have his head covered, because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman, but the woman of the man. Nor was the man created for the woman, but the woman for the man...But in giving you this command, I don't praise you, that you come together not for the better but for the worse. (1Co 11:1-17)

And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women be silent in the churches; for it is not permitted to them to speak, but to be in subjection, as the Law also says. And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home; for it is a shame for a woman to speak in a church. Or did the Word of God go out from you? Or did it reach only to you? If anyone thinks to be a prophet, or a spiritual one, let him recognize the things I write to you, that they are a commandment of the Lord. But if any is ignorant, let him be ignorant. So then, brothers, seek to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in languages. Let all things be done decently and in order. (1Co 14:32-40)

What is it then, brothers? When you come together, each one of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has another language, has an interpretation. Let all things be done to build each other up. If any man speaks in another language, let it be two, or at the most three, and in turn; and let one interpret. But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in the assembly, and let him speak to himself, and to God. Let the prophets speak, two or three, and let the others discern. But if a revelation is made to another sitting by, let the first keep silent. For you all can prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be exhorted. (1Co 14:26-31)