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Author Topic: 1 Cor 14:20-25  (Read 4411 times)
kathleen5
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« on: June 17, 2003, 01:53:23 PM »

 Huh Can anybody help me understand why it seems Paul contradicts himself in these verses.  Is tongues a sign to unbelievers or not, is prophesy for believers or not???
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SonofAslan
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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2003, 03:52:33 PM »

Hi Kathleen,

This is my two cents for what it's worth.

You have to look at v 21 to get an answer to this question. It says:

In the law it is written:
        "With men of other tongues and other lips
        I will speak to this people;
        And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,"


The question is, what are "tongues" a sign for in vv 22ff? I would suggest that given what it says in v 21, tongues are a sign of the unbeliever's unbelief. They can't understand what's being said which indicates they are outside the community of Faith. They are not a sign meant to draw the unbeliever into belief, but rather a sign OF the unbeliever's unbelief. When unbelievers hear these things spoken in tongues they don't understand, they should recognize that it's because they've closed their ears to God. Prophesying, on the other hand, is for unbelievers, they can hear and understand what it is they're missing. Prophesy is a sign meant to convict them and draw them to repentance. Tongues are meant to show them their unbelief. The reason he says prophesy is not a sign for unbelievers, is because it is meant to turn them into believers. Prophesy is a sign of belief, i.e. understanding the word of God, and tongues are a sign of unbelief, i.e. failing to understand or rejecting the word of God.

It is pretty much the same thing when Christ said "My sheep hear me and recognize my voice." Even prophecy, to those who are mired in unbelief, is the same as tongues. They might understand the words, but they don't understand the meaning. Tongues makes their failure to understand blatantly obvious.

That's my take anyway.

And here is the commentary of St John Chrysostom on the passage in question (see the Early Church fathers series).

Great in this place is the difficulty which one seems to find arising from what is said. For if tongues are for a sign to them that believe not, how saith he, if they that believe not should see you speaking with tongues, they will say that "ye are mad?" And if prophecy be "not for the unbelieving, but for them that believe," how shall also the unbelievers gain thereby?
"For if there come in," saith he, "when ye are prophesying, one that believeth not, he is reproved by all, and judged."
And not only this, but also after this another question hence springs up: since the tongue will appear on the contrary greater than the prophecy. For if the tongues are for a sign to the unbelieving, but prophecy to them that believe, that which draws in aliens and makes of the household, is greater than that which regulates those of the household. What then is the meaning of that expression? Nothing difficult nor obscure, nor contrary to what went before, but rather very agreeable to it, if we give heed: viz., that prophecy is suitable to both, but then tongue not so. Wherefore having said of the tongue, "it is for a sign," he adds, "not to them that believe, but to the unbelievers," and to them "for a sign," i. e., for astonishment, not so much for instruction.
"But in the case of prophecy too," saith some one, "he did the very same thing, saying, `but prophesying serveth not for the unbelieving, but for them which believe.' For the believer hath no need to see a sign, but requires only teaching and catechizing. How then sayest thou," saith he," that prophecy is of use to both, when Paul saith `not to the unbelieving, but to them which believe?'"If thou wilt accurately examine, thou wilt understand what is said. For he said not, "prophecy is not useful to them unbelieving," but, "is not for a sign," as the tongue," i.e., a mere sign without profit: nor is the tongue any way useful to believers; for its only work is to astonish and to confound; the word "sign" bring one of those which may be taken two ways: as when he saith, "show me a sign,"(Psalms chapter 86, verse 17) and adds, "for good:" and again, "I am become as a wonder unto many," (Psalms chapter 71, verse 7) i. e., a sign.
And to show thee that he introduced the term "sign" here, not as a thing which of course did some good, he added that which resulted from it. And what was this? "They will say," saith he, "that ye are mad" This however not from the nature of the sign, but from their folly. But when thou hearer of unbelievers, do not suppose that the same persons are in every case intended, but at one time they which are incurably diseased and abide uncorrected, and at another they which may be changed; such as were they who in the times of the Apostles admire the mighty things of God which they hear of; such as in the case of Cornelius. His meaning accordingly is this; that prophecy avails both among the unbelieving and among them that believe: as to the tongue, when heard by the unbelieving and inconsiderate, instead of profiting by it, they rather deride the utterers as madmen. For, in fact, it is to them but for a sign, i.e., in order to astonish them merely; whereas they who had understanding used also to profit by it: with a view to which the sign was given. Even as then there were not only certain who accused them of drunkenness, but many also admired them as relating the wonderful works of God. It appears then that the mockers were those without understanding. Wherefore also Paul did not simply say, "they will say that ye are mad," but added, "unlearned and unbelievers."
But prophecy is not for a sign merely, but is also suitable and useful for faith and for profit unto both classes. And this, if not directly, yet in the sequel he more clearly explained, saying, "he is reproved by all. For, if all prophesy," saith he, "and there come in one unbelieving or unlearned, he is reproved by all; he is judged by all; and thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so he will fall down on his face and worship God, declaring that God is among you indeed."
So that not in this only is prophecy greater, in its availing with each class, but also in its attracting the more shameless of the unbelievers. For it was not the same wonder, when Peter convicted Sapphira, which was a work of prophecy, and when he spake with tongues: but in the former case all shrank into themselves; whereas, when he spake with tongues, he got the credit of being even beside himself.
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kathleen5
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« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2003, 04:56:44 PM »

WOW!! Thank you.
Kathleen
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ollie
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2003, 05:53:17 PM »

Huh Can anybody help me understand why it seems Paul contradicts himself in these verses.  Is tongues a sign to unbelievers or not, is prophesy for believers or not???

1 Corinthians 14:22.  Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Where is the contradiction?     Huh

Tongues are for a sign to  those that believe not.
Prophesying serves them which believe.
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kathleen5
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2003, 07:00:16 PM »

Quote
In vs 23 and 24 Paul goes on to say"if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there com in those who are uninformed or unbeliever, will they not say that you are out of your mind.  But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all.  In verse 22 he says tongues are for unbelievers and in vs 24 hes says they will think you are out of you mind. Huh
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Symphony
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2003, 07:24:28 PM »


Mmmm, that may not be exactly right, kath5.

In verse 22(and 21), tongues are indicated for a sign that they will not believe, not that they necessarily will believe.

But more specifically, later on, there in 24, it specifies "if" the unbeliever is convicted, then he will believe...

In the first instance is the unaccustomed newcomer.

In the second is the one who is convicted, and his belief begins to unfold...
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kathleen5
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« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2003, 08:42:16 AM »

Symphony,  I studied these verses with your insite and sonofaslan and I relize I've been totally understanding these the wrong way.  No wonder I was confused thanks for your help.

Kathleen
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Symphony
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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2003, 09:48:27 AM »


'Welcome...
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