sin and repentance

[Bronzesnake]

There are some of us who believe we can continue sinning once we accept Jesus into our hearts. They mistakenly believe that once Jesus forgives us of a specific sin, they can continue in that sin, because Jesus has forgiven them.

 Let me clarify...

There is a poster on this forum who believes there is no such thing as a gay priest. This poster believes that - a priest believes in Jesus, and therefore has been forgiven of his homosexuality - and can continue having gay relations, because he has been forgiven.

 I do not ascribe to that false teaching. I believe that it is a very dangerous and potentially destructive train of thought.

 Jesus says that once we are forgiven of a specific sin, we must repent, and cease committing that sin.

Here are a couple of examples from scriptures...

 Jesus clearly warns the lame man who was healed about sinning once he was cleansed...

Jhn 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Jesus also warns the adulterous woman to "sin no more".

Jhn 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.


 In these following verses, it is made clear that we must not willfully comit sin...

Hbr 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,  

Hbr 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.  


Hbr 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:  


Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?  


Repent...(from the dictionary)...

1) To feel remorse, contrition, or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do; be contrite.

2)To feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it: repented of intemperate behavior.
 
3)To make a change for the better as a result of remorse or contrition for one's sins.

Jesus forgives us of our sins, but He also warns us to repent, and cease to commit those sins. Does this mean we are to be perfect? Of course not. However, we are to fight with all our ability to avoid sinning, and Jesus is the Holy Judge who knows our hearts - He knows if we are truly fighting the good fight, or if we are faking it, and we will be judged accordingly...

Any thoughts?

Bronzesnake

[Gracey]

This poster believes that - a priest believes in Jesus, and therefore has been forgiven of his homosexuality - and can continue having gay relations, because he has been forgiven.

No, no, no. Forgiven, yes....but once we confess our sin we aren't supposed to go right on doing it. Forgiveness goes (for me anyway) hand-in-hand with repentance. Repentance means not sinning (at least that particular sin) again. Doesn't it...or do we just keep on repenting over and over again for the same sin? I don't think so.... Jesus says "if ye love me, keep my commandments" - I don't think He's just referring to the 10 Commandments; doesn't it mean for us to keep all the things he teaches us?

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,  

I think no matter how hard I try, I will always find some sin in my life. I think the point is, once we are aware of a sin and we commit ourselves to repentance there is forgiveness. Only through the Holy Spirit can we hope to avoid participating in that same sin again and again, knowing that it is sin.

Gracey

[C C]

Hi all,

So many folks complain that when people come to Christ they go on sinning.

I complain that when people come to Christ, they go on Judging.  

Where's the love?  Where's the trust in God?

The SIN that we are supposed to turn from is the sin that says, "I don't need God."  The Pharasees are the ones that don't need God.  If a homosexual decides he needs God, and he comes to Christ--he's repented of the unpardonable sin.  The unpardanable sin is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit says to love God and to need God.  That is the sin that people turn from when they turn from sin--it's the unpardonable sin--the sin that says they don't need God.

When a person accepts Christ as their savior, they've turned from the sin that sends them to hell which is separation from Christ.  Being apart from God is hell.  When a person turns to God and become united with God, they are no longer apart from God.

Of course, there are hundreds of other sins, but coming to Jesus and acknowledging that you are unworthy and needing Him to help You overcome other sins, is actually what saves.

You might take note that the Pharasees weren't homosexuals and they went to hell anyway, because they rejected Christ.

Homosexuals that accept Christ will inheret eternal life.  That title Homosexual no longer applies to them.  We ARE required to turn from sin, I will acknowledge that.  But the sin of condeming the homosexual after they have come to Christ is pretty much equivalent of being the homosexual.  Or actually much worse, because what it says when you condemn a homosexual after they come to Christ, what that says about the condemner is that they DON'T TRUST CHRIST TO SAVE SINNERS.  If you can't TRUST CHRIST TO SAVE SINNERS, then maybe you haven't trusted Christ to save yourself.  No wonder so many don't have any living water.  They're still trying to earn salvation by their own works.  It is when you totally realize you can never do it on your own, that you understand the redemptive power of Christ.  If you don't understand that, then maybe you aren't saved and WORSE off then the homosexual who IS saved.

Once we know that they know that we know that homosexuality is SIN, God has to give him or her the strength to overcome that sin.  It may be a gradual process which may  never happen without the aid and support of other Christians.  

You know, I have so many friends that claim Christianity.  One claims she's a Christian, but she can't stop gambling.  Another claims he's a Christian but he can't stop drinking.  Another claims he's a Chrisitian, but she can't stop smoking.  Another claims she's a Christian, but she can't forgive her husband and is going to be divorced.  Another claims she's a Christian but she can't stop her snobery.  Another claims she's a Christian, but she can't stop her greed.  Another claims he's a Christian, but he has an anger management problem.  Another claims he's a Christian, but she cannot stand her neighbor and wishes her neighbor would move away.  Another claims she's a Christian, but she's got millions and she doesn't want to feed the poor with it.  Another claims she's a Christian, but don't wait around for her to tell you the latest gosssip because she'll tell you.  Another claims she's a Christian, but she hasn't stopped dating non-Christians yet.

I could go on and on and on.

The point is none of us has fully turned from all our sins.  Why do we feel it's right to pick and choose what sins we're going to make a big deal about.  Pick out a category of people and condemn them for this or that reason.

Before Christ came there were hundreds, probably thousands of teachers of the law.  It didn't save any souls to have all those teachers of the law.  Christ came to give us living water.  We have to TRUST that this living water is going to be able to do it's work.

I'm finding out that the worst thing that happens when you befriend someone that claims Christianity and then don't change, is that you have to keep on loving them.  It's hard!!!!!!  It's hard to love sinners.  I for one would like to be released from the burden of loving sinners.  I mean   folks who sin I can't stand.  It's true, we can admit there's folks whose sin we can't stand.  But we have to acknowledge that we are sinful in not loving the sinner.  

It's so much easier to condemn the sinner then to sit around and love them.  But that's what the Pharasees did.  And we that claim to be Christ followers need to behave a wee bit differently than the Pharasees.  Don't we?

Peace

[Bronzesnake]

C.C.

 

Homosexuals that accept Christ will inheret eternal life.  That title Homosexual no longer applies to them.  We ARE required to turn from sin, I will acknowledge that.  But the sin of condeming the homosexual after they have come to Christ is pretty much equivalent of being the homosexual.

 Pointing out a persons sin is not judging Candice. In order to judge someone, you must accuse them of a sin, then you must sentence them. I am not judging anyone.
Who have I judged Candice?

I'm simply telling you that once Jesus forgives us, we can not willingly continue to sin. That is biblical.

 

Where's the love?  Where's the trust in God?

 Are you aware of the fact that the great majority of the Bible involves God warnings and punishments, as opposed to His love?

 Listen - I'm not saying homosexuals can not be forgiven and saved - They can. They must first accept Jesus as their personal saviour - then, they must confess their sin - then they must not commit that sin willingly again. I understand that we have all struggled with our own sins whatever they may be - adultery, stealing, lying, etc. Sometimes it takes time to overcome the temptation and stop the sin...However - we must repent, and we must honestly fight to refrain from all sin.

 If an adulterous man believed he was forgiven by Jesus of the sin of adultery, and therefore he could continue to be an adulterer - he will be sadly mistaken come judgement day. The same goes for homosexuals.

 We are commanded by God to point out our brother's and sister's sins Candice. You seem to not be aware of this, and you accuse people of "judging" when they do point out these sins. I have not actually accused any individual person on this forum of being a homosexual. I am doing what God commands me to do...

Eze 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.  

Eze 3:19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.  

Eze 3:20 Again, When a righteous [man] doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.  

Eze 3:21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous [man], that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.  

It's so much easier to condemn the sinner then to sit around and love them.  But that's what the Pharasees did.  And we that claim to be Christ followers need to behave a wee bit differently than the Pharasees.  Don't we?

 No, it's actually much easier to pretend they are not sinning and simply watch as they head for judgement day before Jesus. On that day, Jesus will ask you why you didn't warn your friends of their sins. Then - you will suffer the same punishment as those who you failed to warn because you mistakenly though that by warning them, you were judging them, and you didn't want to hurt anyones feelings. I have shown you that God commands us to point out each others sins - it's not judging Candice, it's actually potentially saving their eternal souls from the lake of fire.

 

When a person accepts Christ as their savior, they've turned from the sin that sends them to hell which is separation from Christ.  Being apart from God is hell.

 Actually - Hell is a physical, literal place. It is described in some detail in the scriptures. So, yes, it is actually a separation from God - but more to the point, it is a huge lake of fire surrounded by outer darkness....

 Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 Bronzesnake

[Gracey]

Or actually much worse, because what it says when you condemn a homosexual after they come to Christ, what that says about the condemner is that they DON'T TRUST CHRIST TO SAVE SINNERS.  If you can't TRUST CHRIST TO SAVE SINNERS, then maybe you haven't trusted Christ to save yourself.

I wouldn't say "condemning"....that's not up to me.

I, personally, trust Him because he has saved us already. But, the bible also tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling...

If you love Him, you will follow Him. If you follow Him, them you must, out of love, obey Him.

I agee that it means we are also to love one another, regardless of our circumstance, but it also means we must point out sin.

For reference sake (and not argument's sake):

1Co 3:16  Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
1Co 3:17  If anyone defiles the temple of God, God shall destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which you are.

Do we treat God's temple by doing something He consider's an abomination or sin?

1Co 5:1  On the whole it is reported that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not even named among the nations, so as one to have his father's wife.
1Co 5:2  And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, so that he who has done this deed may be taken from your midst.
1Co 5:3  For as being absent in body but present in spirit, I indeed have judged already as though I were present concerning him who worked out this thing;
1Co 5:4  in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, with my spirit; also, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ;
1Co 5:5  to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Co 5:6  Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?
1Co 5:7  Therefore purge out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, as you are unleavened. For also Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us.

Paul's instruction to the Corinthians exhort them to "put out" the sinner.

1Co 5:11  But now I have written to you not to associate intimately, if any man called a brother and is either a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one not to eat.
1Co 5:12  For what is it to me to also judge those who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
1Co 5:13  But God judges those who are outside. Therefore put out from you the evil one.

Paul also indicates that the church judges the members, and that God judges those outside the church.

1Co 6:18  Flee fornication. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits fornication sins against his own body.
1Co 6:19  Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in you, whom you have of God? And you are not your own,
1Co 6:20  for you are bought with a price. Therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.

And again says that the body is God's, not ours. "Therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's."

Because a person points out the sin of another doesn't mean they are (a) judging that "person" (they are judging the sin) or (b) that they don't love or care about that person (just the opposite, I should think).

Our God is wonderfully loving, and we are to strive to be like that, but He is also quick to point out when we are in sin.

peace
Gracey

[Bronzesnake]

Nice work Gracey!  

Bronzesnake

[BlackmanX]

This world  is  going  mad !

[FaithfulFollower]

Forgiveness is indeed something granted, but we all should try to put an end to our sinful ways. Though many would say it is sometimes more easily said than done. I agree with many of the comments made here. Through Christ we all are forgiven, but to continue living in sin and making the excuse that Jesus forgives us and using it as a sheild when wrong is done is wrong itself.

With Love In Christ,

Danielle

[AJ]

Nice work Gracey!  

Bronzesnake

Amen Bronze and Gracey...From personal experience and Bible truth, i know you cannot keep sinning willfully after the old man is crucified with Christ...behold all things are made new?God loves us, but if he has to chastize us he will...just like we chastize our own children when they do wrong.

 Col 3:2  Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3  For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4  When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Col 3:5  Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6  For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

[Allinall]

There are some of us who believe we can continue sinning once we accept Jesus into our hearts. They mistakenly believe that once Jesus forgives us of a specific sin, they can continue in that sin, because Jesus has forgiven them.

 Let me clarify...

There is a poster on this forum who believes there is no such thing as a gay priest. This poster believes that - a priest believes in Jesus, and therefore has been forgiven of his homosexuality - and can continue having gay relations, because he has been forgiven.

 I do not ascribe to that false teaching. I believe that it is a very dangerous and potentially destructive train of thought.

 Jesus says that once we are forgiven of a specific sin, we must repent, and cease committing that sin.

Here are a couple of examples from scriptures...

 Jesus clearly warns the lame man who was healed about sinning once he was cleansed...

Jhn 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Jesus also warns the adulterous woman to "sin no more".

Jhn 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.


 In these following verses, it is made clear that we must not willfully comit sin...

Hbr 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,  

Hbr 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.  


Hbr 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:  


Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?  


Repent...(from the dictionary)...

1) To feel remorse, contrition, or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do; be contrite.

2)To feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it: repented of intemperate behavior.
 
3)To make a change for the better as a result of remorse or contrition for one's sins.

Jesus forgives us of our sins, but He also warns us to repent, and cease to commit those sins. Does this mean we are to be perfect? Of course not. However, we are to fight with all our ability to avoid sinning, and Jesus is the Holy Judge who knows our hearts - He knows if we are truly fighting the good fight, or if we are faking it, and we will be judged accordingly...

Any thoughts?

Bronzesnake

AMEN!![/b]  We have been forgiven, and remain forgiven for our sins.  Else, Jesus would have to be crucified over and over again.    Nevertheless, if we continue in our sin, we live a life of defeat.  We don't really even live, or experience the "life" that we've been given now - namely, our personal relationship with Jesus.

Here's some thoughts to add:

1. We're to control our thoughts on our sinful desires -

"For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds.  We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ, being ready to punish every disobedience, when your obedience is complete." - 2 Corinthians 10:4-6

2.  We're to control our actions towards our sinful desires -

"But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.  For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.   But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.  Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.  And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.  If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit."[/b] - Galatians 5:16-25

3.  We are to exchange our sinful desires, for God's desires -

"Delight yourself in the LORD, and he will give you the desires of your heart."[/b] - Psalm 37:4

Just some added thoughts...