The Matrix

[Tibby]

What does everyone think about the Matrix Trilogy thus far?

[Sapphire W34P0N]

The first one kicks. The second one...doesn't.

[Tibby]

Why do you say that? I liked it. The First one was better, but the second one was great as well. What problems did you find with it?

[Symphony]

THe New Yorker magazine several weeks ago seemed to like the first one much better.

I've not seen either; the premise sounds interesting--What if what we all thought is reality turned out not to be so.

I find it very biblical--that our lives here are not "real"--at least, real in the sense that they last.

If that in fact is what it is about.  

The article said the first one has started a sort of cult or movement all its own; I believe some colleges were even offering a course in it or something.

Our soul goes on living; this isn't that reality at all.  We are a vapor, and then gone.

[Tibby]

Yeah, read the book “Philosophy and the Matrix”. I like it, the author is a writer for “Philosophy now” one of my favorite publications. It was interesting, comparing the Matrix to Buddhism, Marxism, and other philosophies.

Sym, by the way our talking, it sounds like you haven't seen it...

[Sapphire W34P0N]

The plot was weak. The fight scenes got old. There was nothing new. It just didn't "wow" me like the first one did.

[Corpus]

A question about the movie.

WWJD?

In other words, I've heard complaints from some sectors that both the movies are far too violent. I did see the first movie. I liked the first movie. But when someone questioned the social responsibility I have as a Christian to not endorse such movies with my wallet or provide the tacit approval of mere attendace at such films, it got me thinking...

So would Jesus like it? Not trying to pick on anyone here. Just sharing some reflections I've had of late.

[Sapphire W34P0N]

Eh, violence in movies doesn't bother me too much. I honestly don't see how either movie is really all that violent. The first one should have been rated PG-13.

[Tibby]

I liked the plot, but you are right, Sapph, nothing new, it was the same old Matrix.

As for the violence, I take it you don't read the OT to much? How about your read Judges, then come back and say the Matrix was to violent! Lol, as the Money changers in the temple about violence! As JESUS himself about violence. Ask the Paul and Peter about violence. Violence is a fact of life, the Christian walk is compared to as a fight, Praise and Worship compared to a war. God is called a “Might man of War.” We are told to put in our “armor.” Again, violence is a fact of life, Christ sees that, so why can’t Christians? He even tells us what to do when faced with violence, proving he acknowledged the existence and unavoidability of it. You say “ Yes, but Jesus would not subject himself to such violence needlessly.” Well, he could have just as easily walked off the cross. An all powerful God has to power to do that he wishes. If he had to, he never would need to even be human, he wouldn’t even have to snap his fingers, and all the Heathens and Pagans and Daemons and Satan would cease to be. He doesn’t, he choose to save his, he choose to die a violent, brutal death for us, he had to live it, He has his arms ties to a splirnty tree, with his hands and feet nailed to it, and the crown of dry thorns in his head, many Christians choose to die death my the same fate, or my being ripped apart by beast, or torn up my Gladiators or have there heads lobed off for Christ, and we modern Christians fear watching a little FAKE kicking and punching?

What would Jesus do, good question. But are we to ask “What would Jesus Do?” or would a better question be “What would Jesus HAVE ME do?” I mean he did say we would do greater thing them him, did he not? So, WWJD? Would he keep himself from being entertained, would be avoid chance to whiteness to the Christians there, and even let the Lord speak to him thru the Silence in the Matrix?

The Matrix hardly has any blood it in, I think the Crucifixions of Christ had a little bit more. Sorry for the rant.

[Corpus]

Tibby,

I hear you,

and yet...

Consider the purpose of the violence. I'm no pacifist and wouldn't suggest violence is always wrong, but here we are talking about using gratuitous violence as pure entertainment. It DOES bear some resemblance to gladiator combat in that sense. Acknowledging violence as a fact of life hardly makes it more acceptable as a source of entertainment.

An analogy:

Sex is part of my life (yes I'm married) and most other people's.
I like sex!

It does not follow however that because sex is a part of my life and most everyone elses for that matter, that I can then begin to view it gratuitously as entertainment (i.e. pornography). Isn't it true that those who view sex as a gratuitous act are more likely to then use sex as a gratuitous act, or at least dismiss any sense of moral culpability in others doing the same? Why wouldn't the same hold true for violence?

In scripture there is a recognized purpose behind violence and it is NEVER as entertainment. Scripture also makes numerous references to sex, but again as something with purpose, meaning and significance.

As with so many things in life, when certain actions are taken outside the context of God they become essentially un-Godly.

[Tibby]

lol, to qoute you “I hear you… yet…” Very good point, I had not thought about it that way, but I have a few points I’d like to draw out here:

Good example, very good with the sex. But, I am a Martial Artist, I know several Marital Arts, and I LOVE sparring, I can’t get enough of it, I say over in classes, to get more time on the mat, I got to other schools just to train, I invite friends over and use the living room carpet! On top of that, I am a HUGE fan a Martial Arts flicks and Anime (major Otaku), but I don’t believe in using violence to get your way, or fighting, unless you have tried every other way to protect your self and/or the ones around you. I think I have a reconcilability as a fighter to protect those who can’t protect them selves, but I’m not the kind of guy who like fighting outside of a sports setting. I’m not going to watch the Matrix, then go spar for an hour, then go to the local bar and pick a fight. Violence IS entertainment for me, I do it, I watch it, but I would never attack some unwitting, unskilled person. Most Martial Artist Agree with me. Mainly, if a judges here you know Karate, it is prison time for you! Fighting just isn’t cool outside of the gym.

On top of that, the Violence shown in the Matrix is unrealistic violence. It is like the argument with Cartoon Violence. In a cartoon, a Mouse will pick up an anvil or battleship and throw it on a cat. And little kids see they, the are not going to be able to pick up a anvil. Likewise, in 5 years of Sports fighting, I’ve never seen someone jump 10 feet in the air, run on a wall, dodge bullets, or fly. The Violence is Loony Tones is just as hard to imitate as the matrix. lol, on an off note, who would win a fight, Neo or Bugs Bunny?

You ask why violence would be any different from sex? You learn to fight, you are born knowing how to have sex. You DO Martial Arts, you HAVE Sex. If some skinny loser who just saw the Matrix challenged me to a fight, I’d have him on his back before you could say “There is no spoon” and the fight would be over. People watch porn, they are going to go off and have sex. With all the Eastern Philosophy and skilled Matrix Arts action, people who see the matrix are going to rush to the Dojo’s to learn to fight “like Neo.” That is an advantage to it being a Martial Arts Movie. We see Neo learning all these Martial Arts, and we see him fighting in a Gi, and doing all kinds of complex kicks and throws, If anything it would have people running to there local Dojo to learn to fight properly, and stay safe when fighting. Some of these moves I haven’t learned yet, they have some complex Martial Arts mixed in with all the computer graphics and wires!

Scripture doesn’t directly talk of fighting, your right, but Paul uses it several times to give examples (I do not fight as one hitting the air, I fight the good fight, etc), so we can assume he at least enjoyed watching it.

My personal favorite, is when he was a boxer, all blood and bruised, talking to the camera after a fight, with his opponent being carried out of the ring in a bloody mess, and he is like “Yeah, I want to give all thinks to God…”   It is like those Rapper at awards show “ And most of all, I’d like to thank my lord and savior, Jesus Christ, for my hit single ‘BEEP you BEEP, mother BEEP’” Some people can be so thick… lol

[Symphony]

You're right, Tibby, I've not seen the Matrix films.  

I just read the movie review in The New Yorker, there, two weeks ago.  

But I know now if a fifteen year old, Sapphire(Hey, JapEmp, seems you were nailing me for my feminine-sounding name, ahem....), anyway, I know now that if the fight scenes are old for a fifteen year old, then the fight scenes would DEFINITELY be old for me.  

It takes me ten minutes to read a review;  that saves me having to see the movie.

I did rent "Minority Report" recently--"pre-crime".  The FX "spider retina scanners"--those were cool.     "predestination".  

But on the Matrix, and the gratuitous violence, as Corpus points out, wasn't that cited as part of the "inspiration" for the Columbine shootings?  I thought that was how they dressed.

[Tibby]

You're right, Tibby, I've not seen the Matrix films.  

I just read the movie review in The New Yorker, there, two weeks ago.  

But I know now if a fifteen year old, Sapphire(Hey, JapEmp, seems you were nailing me for my feminine-sounding name, ahem....), anyway, I know now that if the fight scenes are old for a fifteen year old, then the fight scenes would DEFINITELY be old for me.  

It takes me ten minutes to read a review;  that saves me having to see the movie.

I did rent "Minority Report" recently--"pre-crime".  The FX "spider retina scanners"--those were cool.     "predestination".  

You misused stand him. He meant it seems like a copy of the first movie. Which the fight seems were to an extent. Same basic style.  And yes, Minority Report was a good movie. But I liked the Matrix better.

But on the Matrix, and the gratuitous violence, as Corpus points out, wasn't that cited as part of the "inspiration" for the Columbine shootings?  I thought that was how they dressed.

Oh, Keanu Reaves went all the way to Littleton just to show them how to load a gun and help them make pipe bombs? Yes, Music and Movies can change your mood and give you ideas, but can they load guns for you? Can they sell you bullets? If that is the case, lets watch nothing but Left Behind. Oh, wait ,there was violence then that to. Lets read out bibles! No, we can’t do that, I mean, we might go off a Crucify people! Hey, people have done it before, right? SO a few unstable people watch a movie and play a computer game and try to copy what they see. What is it, like 1 in a million? Should the actions of the few punish the many? Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold didn't kill those kids: no, sir, it was Lawrence Fishbourne and Keanu Reeves. They weren't motivated by rage and frustration at a school system: no, they were motivated by the Matrix! Welcome to Liberal America, where it is everyone fault but your own, right, Sym? Is that the case, Symphony?

[Symphony]

Were you addressing "moi", Tibby??

[Tibby]

Nah, I was talking to some other Symphony   I luv you