Slaves to sin?

[emtmedgrl]

1 Corinthians 5:1-8
Expel the Immoral Brother!

1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? 3Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature[1] may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
Footnotes


5:5 Or that his body; or that the flesh
When I read this passage it seems like it makes it pretty clear that sin causes destruction / God's punishment.  However... God will allow the physical body to be destroyed, but if that person is a believer his soul will still be saved?  Am I understanding this correctly or am I missing something?

Another verse I was looking at as I was reading through 1 Corinthians is 1 Corinthians 3:10-15:
1 Corinthians 3

10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
Is this passage kind of along the same lines as 1 Corinthians 5:1-8 (above) ?
Sorry for all the questions... my brain has a hard time comprehending scripture sometimes.  If someone else gets something different out of these passsages please share.  

My next question is kinda long regard Romans 7:14-25 & Romans 8:1-17.  When Paul is speaking in Romans 7:14-25 it sounds as though he struggles with sin alot (I can relate at times) however in the next chapter in verse 5 he starts talking about how if we are Christians we should not be controlled by the sinful nature anymore?
In verse 8:1-4 does this mean that the reason God sent his Son is because we are unable to live up to the law so he sent a Savior for us so that we would not have to live up to the expectations of the law because our flesh is too weak?  In that case, since we are weak won't our flesh always be a slave to sin?


Romans 7

14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[1] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
Romans 8
Life Through the Spirit
1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,[1] 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature,[2] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.[3] And so he condemned sin in sinful man,[4] 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
5Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind of sinful man[5] is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind[6] is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship.[7] And by him we cry, "Abba,[8] Father." 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
Footnotes

8:1 Some later manuscripts Jesus, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit,
8:3 Or the flesh; also in verses 4, 5, 8, 9, 12 and 13
8:3 Or man, for sin
8:3 Or in the flesh
8:6 Or mind set on the flesh
8:7 Or the mind set on the flesh
8:15 Or adoption
8:15 Aramaic for Father
Sorry for all the questions but I am truly trying to understand this.  Thanks a bunch for any comments you can throw my way.

Amanda

[Heidi]

EXCELLENT POST, Amanda!
I have been arguing this with the Michael and the "works" oriented people for weeks, now. You have hit the nail on the head! I have also quoted those passages more than once. We ARE slaves to sin UNTIL the Holy Spirit enter us! Once the Holy Spirit enters us, IT now fights the battle between our sinful nature and God's will, and I can assure you, the Holy Spirit will WIN the the battle because it is stronger than the devil. As Paul said, We CANNOT obey the law because of our sinful nature. That's why all we have to do is ASK for GOD'S forgiveness and His forgiveness REPLACES sins! That's how JESUS TAKES AWAY OUR SINS, not we ourselves.  The more love, mercy, and forgiveness we have in our hearts, the more we OPERATE out of that love, mercy, and forgiveness INSTEAD of sin! IT IS FINISHED. We have been forgiven! On my deathbed, REGARDLESS of how I've lived my life, if I ask for forgiveness, then ALL MY SINS ARE TAKEN AWAY. IT IS FINISHED! That's the ONLY way we are pure before God is through Jesus's death on the cross. But we, as Christians, once we've tasted the glories of his forgiveness, we want MORE of it because it provides the ONLY true satisfaction in life! The more love we have in us, the more we WANT to give it to others! "For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks." Our "good works NOW come from the HEART, not to EARN our way to salvation! We can NEVER earn it because ALL of us fall short of the glory of God. And as James says, even we break the law EVEN ONCE, we are guilty of breaking all of it. But as you quoted Paul; "for there is is NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus..."

[Gracey]

That's why all we have to do is ASK for GOD'S forgiveness and His forgiveness REPLACES sins!

Praise God! It might be more appropriate to say that God's forgiveness cleanses our sins....it doesn't really replace our sins (or, it takes the place of our sins?)  If that were the case, we would never sin again. Unfortunately, because I am human, there are times....I still sin. But I am no longer a servant of sin.

Rom 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:11  Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:18  Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

2Co 5:21  For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1Jo 1:7  But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

[ollie]

EXCELLENT POST, Amanda!
I have been arguing this with the Michael and the "works" oriented people for weeks, now. You have hit the nail on the head! I have also quoted those passages more than once.

Ad infinitum!

We ARE slaves to sin UNTIL the Holy Spirit enter us
 Once the Holy Spirit enters us, IT now fights the battle between our sinful nature and God's will, and I can assure you, the Holy Spirit will WIN the the battle because it is stronger than the devil.

Does not God want us to repent of our sins, then we will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit?

As Paul said, We CANNOT obey the law because of our sinful nature. That's why all we have to do is ASK for GOD'S forgiveness and His forgiveness REPLACES sins! That's how JESUS TAKES AWAY OUR SINS, not we ourselves.

Is it not Christ's shed blood that cleanses us from sin when we repent and ask forgiveness?

 

The more love, mercy, and forgiveness we have in our hearts, the more we OPERATE out of that love, mercy, and forgiveness INSTEAD of sin! IT IS FINISHED. We have been forgiven! On my deathbed, REGARDLESS of how I've lived my life, if I ask for forgiveness, then ALL MY SINS ARE TAKEN AWAY.

What if the sin is willful?

IT IS FINISHED! That's the ONLY way we are pure before God is through Jesus's death on the cross. But we, as Christians, once we've tasted the glories of his forgiveness, we want MORE of it because it provides the ONLY true satisfaction in life! The more love we have in us, the more we WANT to give it to others! "For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks." Our "good works NOW come from the HEART, not to EARN our way to salvation! We can NEVER earn it because ALL of us fall short of the glory of God. And as James says, even we break the law EVEN ONCE, we are guilty of breaking all of it. But as you quoted Paul; "for there is is NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus..."

What Christ did for us on the cross is finished, but how we live and endure to the end is not finished. Prayfully and with hope we will continue to obey Christ and retain His guiding and directing Holy Spirit within our inner beings.

Ollie

[Heidi]

Hi ollie,
Our first step is to admit we sin and need forgiveness. Then once we receive it, out of thankfulness and joy, believe me, repentence becomes a desire of our hearts.

yes it is very definietly Christ's blood that cleanses us. Once we believe that, we have accepted His forgiveness!

Gracey, yes we still sin, but it is not as often nor as blatant. That's what the passage in Hebrews means when Paul says that those who have tasted the glories of God's Spirit, to go back to where we were is virtually unthinkable! I don't even remember WHY i wanted to sin many years ago. BUT, there is always another layer of sin im me, although not as much because each day i have more and more of God's forgiveness, love, and mercy, INSTEAD of my sinful nautre. I very DEFINITELY am less sinful than i used to be! And so was Paul. he went from a murderer of christians to a lover of God and people. Only Christ's love, forgiveness and mercy could do that! That is how we grow in Christ.

When i willfully sin, Ollie, i confess to god that that is where i am at the moment, and ask Him to give me the stregnth to resist. he will at HIS timing, not mine. All he wants from us it eh truth and the desire to go His way, and He does the rest.  A perfect example is when Paul said that the very law "Do not covet" produced every kind of convetous desire in him. So the very law that was intended to bring life actually brings death. But thanks be to God who CLEANSES us from our sins because we CANNOT do it on our own!

Ollie, salvation is finished, but God PRUNES us everyday, bringing us closer and closer to Him. Even the thief on the cross was forgiven and entered paradise even though he did NOTHING to deserve it!  God doesn't teach us to swim to let us drown. God is always there to frogive us and give us His love and mercy until we operate more out of His love, forgiveness, and mercy most of the time. God always meets us where we're at.

[Gracey]

BUT, there is always another layer of sin im me, although not as much because each day i have more and more of God's forgiveness, love, and mercy, INSTEAD of my sinful nautre.

Yeah, ditto....me too.

But thanks be to God who CLEANSES us from our sins because we CANNOT do it on our own!

Yep. Hallelujah.

When i willfully sin, Ollie, i confess to god that that is where i am at the moment, and ask Him to give me the stregnth to resist. he will at HIS timing, not mine.

Isn't willful sin doing something we know we shouldn't do ahead of time? So, I wonder...if we say something to someone, and then we realize, the minute the words are out of our mouth we shouldn't have said it, is that willful sin, or not? Like, we know we shouldn't gossip, but sometimes we do without realizing it's gossip..... til it's done.

That's usually the sort of situation I have to think about. My mouth sometimes goes ahead of my brain....good thing I type slower than I talk    

Gracey†

[Heidi]

The problem, Gracey, is that we can't help ourselves. Paul said it well when he said "The law;'do not covet' breeds all kinds of covetoues desires in me". In other words, willfully trying Not to sin is like trying not to think of an elephant once someone tells us not to. The first thing we do is think of an elephant. Therefore, we cannot WILLFULLY decide NOT to sin. we can only respond at our maturity level. That is why we NEED Chirst's forgiveness which DOES replace our desire to sin with thankfulness that we are forgiven! It does not necessarliy happen at that moment, but God meets us where we're at. It literally describes what "letting go and letting God" means.  What i do is acknowledge my desire to sin and ask God to help me with it. I truly believe that sometimes he allows us to sin in order to teach us something. The best way to explain it is when paul said; "Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial." In other words, we are forgiven no matter what we do, so why do it? We CAN sin and we are forgiven, but is it beneficial? The law can only be obeyed by the spirit, not by ourselves. Because we have been forgiven, obedience comes from the DESIRE to do the right thing, not a duty or obligation. Obedience then comes from love, instead of becuase we HAVE to.