Why Church If Right & Wrong is common sense only?

[tonytony]

What is a Christian really accomplishing if common sense determines right and wrong only? Why bother to go to church or are you just fulfilling Hebrews 10:25 while pushing aside Galations 1:8-9? The nonoffensive doctrine is greatly pushed aside as optional doctrine to practice to go to heaven. Bible standards are lowered on jewelry, hygiene and apparel. Lowered with divorced Christian remarrying. The Sabbath teaching is despised. Baptism requirements are despised. Baptism in Jesus name is despised and couterfeited for the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Women preachers and pastors are church celebrities. There's Christian leadership bold enough to tell you to go to any church today. While common sense defines wrong and right there's the side of those in Christianity that unbalances salvation with grace only.  Notice in Ephesians 2 the word "works" is used twice.
Once referring to old law during the time of Moses. The second time "works" is used it's referring to new law after the time of Moses.  People can really confuse people with this salvation message. They get double minded preaching grace only salvation and then contridict themselves with common sense salvation that they would call the 10 commandments.
When you try to say "repentance + grace = salvation" they take this as error cause of Ephesians 2:8. Thats as bad as saying 1+2=3 but you dont need 1 to get 3. A math teacher would correct you and if you despise them  they would count you a crazy person for despising them when they are the one that knows what their talking about only. Infidel Christians are like rebelling math students in school. They figure common sense salvation is all thats needed while the rest of the bible is pick and choose and you on your way to heaven. Thats the saddest thing in Christianity but then again every Christian is not a 100% bible believer cause the bible admits and prophesizes this. The hope is built up in unity with other believers that are 100% bible believers. I didnt say 100% perfect Christians. If I'm talking to you lets fulfill Amos 3:3 and 2 Corinthians 6:14-17.

[C C]

 

What do you have against Women pastors??  I supposed you have not learned to read the original greek and haven't really studied the scriptures or understand them.

  Pick up the orignal greek and you will see that therer's NOTHING, not one IOTA of anything that prohibits women pastor's.

The original words of God are still availble for us to consult.  

[sojourner]

TonyTony,

I think you are looking for union and not unity. The two are not the same. Also, I don't think you will find unity in the Bible.
Christ is the source of Unity. It is He that is One and Holy. It is He that cannot be divided. If you look at the four fold prayer of Christ in John 17 you will see the definition of what in Unity.

There is an ontological reality between Christ and believers who are His Church. His very Body.
Christ guarantees that unity via the Holy Spirit which He promised that He would send to abide with His Church until the end. Thus the Church has not lost its unity. It is not divided, cannot possibly be. That Church on earth is composed of sinnerful creatures. At times there has been heresy, there has been schisms, one is still in existance today, but the Body has never lost its Unity.
You used Amos 3:3 which is another way of saying what Leviticus 26:23-24. The appointment and unity is between God (Christ) and those who believe in Him.

Let me ask you a question. What is the goal of man or of Christianity?  Is it to achieve a more moral and responsible individual therefore order or existance?

[tonytony]

I respect your right to disagree and fall out.

you mention the word "unity" 'not in the bible its in psalms somewhere stating about how good and pleasant it is for breathen to dwell together in love and unity. i think its psalms 133:1. you mention about john 17. notice jesus didnt pray for the world just believers. your right to say the church of God cant be divided. its the devil dividing the church. you dont believe me read matthew 15:14. matthew 15:14 goes on today in the modern average church. we dont have to worry about money crooks we got doctrine crooks which is not so obvious but cunning. if a preacher tells you can despise
1 corinthians 14:34 and still go to heaven they are a
matthew 15:14 danger to your soul in hell and the lake of fire.
if they tell you you can have a marriage ring and despise
1 timothy 2:9-14 they are a matthew 15:14 danger to your
soul in hell and the lake of fire too. thats just a drop in the bucket of how severe these doctrine crooks endanger you.
they often are tycoons and celebrities all over the world so doctrine gets automatically despised because of it. thats where matthew 16:20 comes in. cant serve the doctrine of christ and the doctrine of man too. thats 2 masters.

TonyTony,

I think you are looking for union and not unity. The two are not the same. Also, I don't think you will find unity in the Bible.
Christ is the source of Unity. It is He that is One and Holy. It is He that cannot be divided. If you look at the four fold prayer of Christ in John 17 you will see the definition of what in Unity.

There is an ontological reality between Christ and believers who are His Church. His very Body.
Christ guarantees that unity via the Holy Spirit which He promised that He would send to abide with His Church until the end. Thus the Church has not lost its unity. It is not divided, cannot possibly be. That Church on earth is composed of sinnerful creatures. At times there has been heresy, there has been schisms, one is still in existance today, but the Body has never lost its Unity.
You used Amos 3:3 which is another way of saying what Leviticus 26:23-24. The appointment and unity is between God (Christ) and those who believe in Him.

Let me ask you a question. What is the goal of man or of Christianity?  Is it to achieve a more moral and responsible individual therefore order or existance?

[tonytony]

I also respect your right to disagree and fall out.

I back my mouth up with 1 Timothy 2:9-14.
I came out of traditional teaching using Galations 3:29.
Thats the big error.
Galations 3:29 is simply saying salvation comes with no respect of person. It doesnt license a women to pastor or preach in church.
1 Timothy 3 address men only in the deacon and bishop role.
Opposers must understand that Titus 2 has to be addressing women outside the church when they teach. I say that because of 1 Corinthians 14 stating that God is not the author of confusion. I also state that because of
2 Timothy 2:15.

We get people sticking their chest out with scripture when they have a partial and unbalanced understanding. Blame it on leadership tradition as well as slothfulness and unbelief.

What do you have against Women pastors??  I supposed you have not learned to read the original greek and haven't really studied the scriptures or understand them.

  Pick up the orignal greek and you will see that therer's NOTHING, not one IOTA of anything that prohibits women pastor's.

The original words of God are still availble for us to consult.  

[sojourner]

TonyTony,

you mention the word "unity" 'not in the bible its in psalms somewhere stating about how good and pleasant it is for breathen to dwell together in love and unity.

Ok, let me clarify.  What I meant by not finding unity in the Bible was not that you won't find the word or the concept.
What I meant is that you will not find unity in the Bible, as a Book. In order to have unity you must first have union. The free for all that is occurring with those who believe in Sola Scriptura, union nor unity will not occur.

you mention about john 17. notice jesus didnt pray for the world just believers.

Better read again. It is a fourfold prayer. (1) for Himself, He describes His concept of Unity. (2) His Apostles - again the same concept (3) for His Church, those within His Body, those who will believe. again same kind of unity once within His Body. (4)  He prays for the world. He prays that they too may behold Him.
There is no unity outside of Christ, outside of His Body, His Church. We are saved through that guaranteed unity through Christ working through the Holy Spirit in His Church. We could not be saved without that unity. It would be confusion, false teaching, chaos, with the result, a non-effect of Christ's work.

your right to say the church of God cant be divided. its the devil dividing the church.

Depend on how you see the Church and Christ's Body. Christ cannot be divided, neither can His Church, as the Church is His Body.  Christ promised that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against His Church.  However, Satan does tempt, does succeed is leading sinners astray. We are all sinners, even when saved and we are constantly buffeted by the wiles of the devil. But the Church will always stand. Holy and One.

[Sower]

What do you have against Women pastors??  I supposed you have not learned to read the original greek and haven't really studied the scriptures or understand them. Pick up the orignal greek and you will see that therer's NOTHING, not one IOTA of anything that prohibits women pastor's.

Candice:

It is obvious that you have neither read the Greek nor the English New Testaments, since they ABSOLUTELY PROHIBIT women pastors, teachers, or elders, who would be usurping authority.

Your argument is not with men but with God.  It is God who prohibits women for assuming these roles, and it is God who provides the reasons for that. So if you want to argue with God, go ahead. But don't claim falsely that this prohibition does not exist in Scripture. Miriam, the sister of Moses, also rebelled against God-given authority and became a leper.

[tonytony]

I back my mouth up with 1 Timothy 2:9-14 and
1 Corinthians 14:34

If you have a problem with that just admit your not a believer.
Galations 3:29 does not give a women the okay to preach in church nor pastor. This is dealing with no respect of person with salvation now. Titus 2 has to be telling women to teach outside the church cause 1 Corinthians 14:34 prohibits them doing it in the church. 1 Corinthians 11 doesnt not approve of women teaching in the church it instead approves of them prophesying in church with restricted guidelines that are also brought in 1 Corinthians 14. Prophecy is prophesying it has no church sermon message.

What do you have against Women pastors??  I supposed you have not learned to read the original greek and haven't really studied the scriptures or understand them. Pick up the orignal greek and you will see that therer's NOTHING, not one IOTA of anything that prohibits women pastor's.

Candice:

It is obvious that you have neither read the Greek nor the English New Testaments, since they ABSOLUTELY PROHIBIT women pastors, teachers, or elders, who would be usurping authority.

Your argument is not with men but with God.  It is God who prohibits women for assuming these roles, and it is God who provides the reasons for that. So if you want to argue with God, go ahead. But don't claim falsely that this prohibition does not exist in Scripture. Miriam, the sister of Moses, also rebelled against God-given authority and became a leper.

[tonytony]

2 things came ringing to me from your responses.

1 you say we cant have unity in the bible. i refuse to believe that psalms 133:1 is in the bible for nothing. i refuse to believe that john 17 cant be fulfilled like jesus intended.

2 you say jesus told us to pray for the world. read john 17 again. he said not to pray for the world. instead he said to pray for those that the father has given him and others of another fold of his that have not come to the earthly scene of life.

I admit we have a real fight on our hands with so many bibles and infidel believers or counterfeiters of truth. we in society take a stand on counterfeit money more and thats going to perish away. Counterfeiters of truth are a Matthew 15:14
danger like the Pharisees. our big battle is finding out that they are normally nice people with good intentions and even many of them are tycoons and celebrities all over the world today. That doesnt mean they are not a Matthew 15:14
danger to us.  Just good intentional nice people that reveal
unbelief and disregard for certain bible topics. Thats bad enough let alone worrying about money crooks. money crooks will get caught and revealed faster cause stealing is not an acceptable practice in the world let alone in christianity. you dont get throwed out of office if your infidel on certain bible
topics normally. normally nobody leaves a chuch when somebody is an infidel on certain bible topics. remember
acts 17:31. the men of thessalonia i think were more noble than the people of berea. why was that? they check the book before yielding to the leadership and teaching of the apostles. not to many act 17:31 christians that are really
100% bible believers.

TonyTony,

you mention the word "unity" 'not in the bible its in psalms somewhere stating about how good and pleasant it is for breathen to dwell together in love and unity.

Ok, let me clarify.  What I meant by not finding unity in the Bible was not that you won't find the word or the concept.
What I meant is that you will not find unity in the Bible, as a Book. In order to have unity you must first have union. The free for all that is occurring with those who believe in Sola Scriptura, union nor unity will not occur.

you mention about john 17. notice jesus didnt pray for the world just believers.

Better read again. It is a fourfold prayer. (1) for Himself, He describes His concept of Unity. (2) His Apostles - again the same concept (3) for His Church, those within His Body, those who will believe. again same kind of unity once within His Body. (4)  He prays for the world. He prays that they too may behold Him.
There is no unity outside of Christ, outside of His Body, His Church. We are saved through that guaranteed unity through Christ working through the Holy Spirit in His Church. We could not be saved without that unity. It would be confusion, false teaching, chaos, with the result, a non-effect of Christ's work.

your right to say the church of God cant be divided. its the devil dividing the church.

Depend on how you see the Church and Christ's Body. Christ cannot be divided, neither can His Church, as the Church is His Body.  Christ promised that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against His Church.  However, Satan does tempt, does succeed is leading sinners astray. We are all sinners, even when saved and we are constantly buffeted by the wiles of the devil. But the Church will always stand. Holy and One.

[ollie]

What do you have against Women pastors??  I supposed you have not learned to read the original greek and haven't really studied the scriptures or understand them.

  Pick up the orignal greek and you will see that therer's NOTHING, not one IOTA of anything that prohibits women pastor's.

The original words of God are still availble for us to consult.  

How reads "the husband of one wife
' in the original Greek?
Does it allow for a woman to meet this qualification for a pastor/bishop?

[sojourner]

TonyTony,

you say we cant have unity in the bible. i refuse to believe that psalms 133:1 is in the bible for nothing.

Its not in the Bible for nothing. But you are still not understanding what I mean.
It is not what is in the Bible, it is the Bible which is used outside of its own context that will not achieve any unity. One would literally have one's head in the sand not to see what is happening today with sola scriptura and individual faith.

i refuse to believe that john 17 cant be fulfilled like jesus intended.

I'm glad. The fact is, it has been unified since the Apostles. Why would it not since it is what Jesus prayed. The disciples obeyed, those that first came into the Church obeyed and preserved the Gospel as it was transmitted to them. Those following generations have as well all the way to the present day.
The Church of the Apostles has preserved the Truth, the Gospel, all of Revelation that was given to them from the beginning so that all of mankind in all succeeding generations would know the Truth.

you say jesus told us to pray for the world. read john 17 again. he said not to pray for the world. instead he said to pray for those that the father has given him and others of another fold of his that have not come to the earthly scene of life.

As I stated it is a fourfold prayer: Vs1-5 He is praying for Himself. Vs 6-19 He is praying for the Apostles, Vs 20-23 He is praying for the Church, Vs 24-26, His is praying for all others, those of the World.