Opinions please: Forgiven for future sins?

[fastback]

Hi all,

I know that when I prayed to accept Christ as my savior many years ago, that I was forgiven of all my sins to that point. I know because I asked for it. My slate was wiped clean. Yet - like all of us - I continue to sin. And I faithfully continue to ask for forgiveness of these sins. But recently, my mother brought up a very intriguing point...

She told me that her Bible study leader - a very learned and well-read Christian - has come to believe that upon salvation, we are not only forgiven of all our past sins - but for all our future sins as well. I asked why we then still ask for forgiveness of our sins on a daily basis, and she said God appreciates a persistant spirit.

My mother was an educator for many years (including Sunday School teacher), and has a vast Biblical knowledge. But this concept (of being forgiven for all our future transgressions) was as new to her as it was to me. Her study leader presented such a compelling argument for it though, that she now believes he's right. She didn't have the Scriptures on hand to share with me; but promises to send them.

I'm very perplexed... How could such a thing have eluded me for all these years? Does anyone here share the belief of have Scriptural reference to support it?

As always - thanks for a push in the right direction!

[Heidi]

Jesus didn't just die for the sins we committed yesterday or last week but not the ones next June. He died for ALL of our sins, FOREVER.  IT IS FINISHED! The Holy Spirit in us convicts us when we sin because it is the truth and the truth is now in us. The more sins we admit, the more love, mercy, and forgiveness we receive in our hearts and that's how we produce a good crop. Some simply rest on their forgiveness and don't look at the plank in their eyes. They will not produce a good crop. But nevertheless, they are saved. The's why i believe some people sit at the right hand of the Father and the rest of us are scattered all over heaven according to our deeds. To each one, his own gift.

[Brother Love]

Jesus didn't just die for the sins we committed yesterday or last week but not the ones next June. He died for ALL of our sins, FOREVER.  IT IS FINISHED! The Holy Spirit in us convicts us when we sin because it is the truth and the truth is now in us. The more sins we admit, the more love, mercy, and forgiveness we receive in our hearts and that's how we produce a good crop. Some simply rest on their forgiveness and don't look at the plank in their eyes. They will not produce a good crop. But nevertheless, they are saved. The's why i believe some people sit at the right hand of the Father and the rest of us are scattered all over heaven according to our deeds. To each one, his own gift.

And I agree, PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE sins are ALL FORGIVEN.

Brother Love

   <))><

[colleen]

I believe he died for all sins we have or will commit.  He atoned for them whether or not people accept this sacrifice or him.  I believe that it is still important to ask forgiveness and strive to better ourselves, and work on not committing those sins again.  I believe we owe it to Christ to do all that we can.  The less we sin, the less torment he had to bear for us.... not that we can change the amount now, but... I guess, I feel that the less I do wrong, the less I am assured he had to suffer for me.  I feel that when a person admits their wrongs and seeks forgiveness, it helps them to be a better person too, and brings a peace in their heart that they've done all they can to recitfy their wrong.  I hope that makes some sort of sense....

[AVBunyan]

Hi all,

I know that when I prayed to accept Christ as my savior many years ago, that I was forgiven of all my sins to that point. I know because I asked for it. My slate was wiped clean. Yet - like all of us - I continue to sin. And I faithfully continue to ask for forgiveness of these sins. But recently, my mother brought up a very intriguing point...

As always - thanks for a push in the right direction!

Try this on for size - Are you saved?  I'm assuming you are.  Then if you are saved then you are in Christ:

1 Cor 1:30  But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
Eph 5:30  For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

You are in Christ (and you are if you are saved) and Christ is in heaven at the right hand of the Father, right?

Then if you are in Christ and Christ is in heaven then you are in heaven right now:

Eph 2:6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

So...stay with me here...when God looks for "fastback" He looks to His right and there sits Jesus Christ and guess who is there in Jesus Christ - you!!!

Question - is Jesus perfect?  Are you in Christ?  Then guess what?  You are perfect in Christ - that is how God sees you, He sees you perfect in Christ.

Now, to the issue at hand - can there be any sin or unforgiveness in heaven?  No, so guess what, you are forgiven in Christ!!!  Now, down here you are in a mess if you are normal like the rest of us saints.  But the real you (in Christ) is seated in heavenly places in Christ, perfect, without sin, forever!!!  This is how God sees the real you.  

Yes, you are allowed to shout on this forum - we are not all dead.  

P.S. - dont' be surprised if some joy-stealer will come behind this post and tell you you have to confess and beg for forgivenss eveytime you mess up - expect this.

May God bless  

[JudgeNot]

Jesus died for all sin. All sin - not some, but all.
ALL sin means ALL sin - past, present, future.

Now, THAT is GOOD NEWS!

[Allinall]

Well, many of us have answered in agreement with the truth of Jesus payment in full for all sin with His death, burial and resurrection.  Yet you asked:

I asked why we then still ask for forgiveness of our sins on a daily basis, and she said God appreciates a persistant spirit.

Why do we still ask forgiveness?  Because...

If I had cherished iniquity in my heart,
   the Lord would not have listened.

Psalm 66:18

Sin within, known and unconfessed breaks communication with our Heavenly Father.  Interestingly enough, it doesn't break relationship, just fellowship.

I've illustrated it this way many times to my daughter: when she sins and is disciplined, often she is sent to her room to sit on her bed.  She and I no longer are fellowshipping.  There is no communication.  However, she is nonetheless still my daughter!  It is the same with our Father.  When we sin, but do not confess that sin, we do not have fellowship with Him.  When we confess our sin, He is "...faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."  When we confess known sin, God cleanses us from unknown sin, making fellowship possible.

It's all about cleaning, not payment my friend.  

[fastback]

Wow! Thanks for all the wonderful responses, everybody!

[sojourner]

Sin, some Biblical principles,

Adam sinned, missed the mark, did not do what God had commanded him.
Thus sin marred man's human nature, it not only corrupted man but all of creation.

Christ died to overcome death which is the penalty for sins. He also attoned for the sin of the world. He did not abolish sin but made forgiveness possible and that man was to seek to accomplish the work for which he was created, to bring man and creation as a sacrifice to God.

Because Christ died for the world, one is only forgiven when one seeks repentance and asks for that forgiveness. John the Baptist baptized upon repentance Matt 3:6.

We are admitted into Christ Body by baptism and repentance.  We increase our righteousness by not sinning. In as much as I sin, I am unrighteous, in that I don't sin, I am righteous.  The discourse of John in I John 1:8- 2:6 all speak to this effort. This is set against the earlier text in I John 3:4-10. This describes the renewed nature of man. It is these two elements that will be at war against each other and you can use the phrases of Paul where the Spirit wars against the flesh.
Man will not rid himself of sin until the penalty, physical death is paid.

This is why constant forgiveness is necessary for the Christian life. Asking once does not rid you nor alliviate its power. It is a daily, lifelong, battle to win the fight.

It is in the return, upon confession, that Christ acts as our mediator. It brings us once again back in communion with him.  This is exemplified in the story of the Prodigal Son.  It may also be said that if we persist in sinning, and do not return, we will not be saved.

One of the commandments of the NT is to love your brother. This obviously is not kept perfectly. But forgiveness of our tresspasses against others is not honored until we forgive those who trespass against us. God forgives but so must we.  This fulfills the trinitarian nature of man himself. Love God, Love your neighbor as yourself. Take any one of these three elements out of the equation, we fail, or sin.

Confession is not only repentance to God but also repentance to our fellow man against whom we may have sinned. We are after all social beings. We do not live in isolation as individuals.  To fulfull our created goal, we must be persons. That is in communion with all. Sins are not private. They either affect your relationship with God or your neighbor or even against yourself.

This is why Scripture commands us to also confess our sins before our fellow men. Not just to our fellow men.  The Church has always had Confession as a sacrament. It is a means of Grace to heal our souls.  

Sin has an effect on us that if unhealed or not attended will sear our consciences. We hope that what we did never becomes known and we have a gnawing sense of guilt. When we repeat sins and they become common, guilt vanishes. Repetition or rationale for it accomplishes the searing of conscience. Guilt is knowing we have violated a rule, unwritten rule, the law written on our hearts, Rom 2:15. Having your sin witnessed, by a priest, as representing the community restores the life of that community. The early Church, James 5:16, actually confesses publically, however,  in time because many not of the community would be attending, the priest became the representative of that community.  What the Bible does not teach is private confession, which is a refusal to acknowledge sin to the community I John 1:6-10.  Guilt and remorse is life renewing. It initiates confession and repentance. Where there is no guilt or remorse there is no possibility of becoming free of that habitual sin.
Absolution is not possible where there is no repentance.

[blainefabin]

Hi all,

I know that when I prayed to accept Christ as my savior many years ago, that I was forgiven of all my sins to that point. I know because I asked for it. My slate was wiped clean. Yet - like all of us - I continue to sin. And I faithfully continue to ask for forgiveness of these sins. But recently, my mother brought up a very intriguing point...

She told me that her Bible study leader - a very learned and well-read Christian - has come to believe that upon salvation, we are not only forgiven of all our past sins - but for all our future sins as well. I asked why we then still ask for forgiveness of our sins on a daily basis, and she said God appreciates a persistant spirit.

My mother was an educator for many years (including Sunday School teacher), and has a vast Biblical knowledge. But this concept (of being forgiven for all our future transgressions) was as new to her as it was to me. Her study leader presented such a compelling argument for it though, that she now believes he's right. She didn't have the Scriptures on hand to share with me; but promises to send them.

I'm very perplexed... How could such a thing have eluded me for all these years? Does anyone here share the belief of have Scriptural reference to support it?

As always - thanks for a push in the right direction!

fastback

i once held to such a position but do not any longer. paul handed over a person to the devil for sinning. john speaks of a sin unto death...peter rebukes simon (the sorcerer) and tells him to pray to God for forgiveness. Christs sacrifice has the capacity to atone for all our sins, but we do still need to repent of them... as the baptists say if they fall away maybe they weren't saved to begin with....
mike

[I_Believe]

Now I declare to you, brothers, the Good News which I preached to you, which also you received, in which you also stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to over five hundred brothers at once, most of whom remain until now, but some have also fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all, as to the child born at the wrong time, he appeared to me also. For I am the least of the apostles, who is not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the assembly of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am. His grace which was bestowed on me was not futile, but I worked more than all of them; yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. Whether then it is I or they, so we preach, and so you believed. (1Co 15:1-11)

* Good News which I preached to you
* which also you received
* in which you also stand
* by which also you are saved
* if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you

Hold firmly the word which he preached not the "New Law" of the sacraments.

But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve in his craftiness, so your minds might be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus, whom we did not preach, or if you receive a different spirit, which you did not receive, or a different "good news"... (2Co 11:3-4)

Foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you not to obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly set forth among you as crucified? I just want to learn this from you. Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now completed in the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain, if it is indeed in vain? He therefore who supplies the Spirit to you, and works miracles among you, does he do it by the works of the law, or by hearing of faith? (Gal 3:1-5)

Neither the Old Law or "New Law" sacraments are a means to salvation.

Having begun in the Spirit by hearing of faith, are you so foolish to believe that you are now completed in the flesh by the works of the Old Law or the "New Law"?

But God, being rich in mercy, for his great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ  (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus; for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, that no one would boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them... now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who made both one, and broke down the middle wall of partition, having abolished in the flesh the hostility, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man of the two, making peace; and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, having killed the hostility thereby. He came and preached peace to you who were far off and to those who were near. For through him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God, being built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone; in whom the whole building, fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit. (Eph 2:4-22)

"not of yourselves...not of works" - performing the "New Law" sacraments as part of the means for salvation creates a new " law of commandments contained in ordinances" that is of yourself through new works in the law of the sacraments.

I delivered to you first of all that which I also received
* that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures
* that he was buried
* that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures
* that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve
* he appeared to over five hundred brothers at once
* he appeared to James, then to all the apostles
* last of all...he appeared to me also

"I am afraid that somehow...your minds might be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ"


But God, being rich in mercy, for his great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus; for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, that no one would boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them. (Eph 2:4-10)

For this cause I, Paul, am the prisoner of Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles, if it is so that you have heard of the administration of that grace of God which was given me toward you; how that by revelation the mystery was made known to me, as I wrote before in few words, by which, when you read, you can perceive my understanding in the mystery of Christ; which in other generations was not made known to the children of men, as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of his promise in Christ Jesus through the Good News, of which I was made a servant, according to the gift of that grace of God which was given me according to the working of his power. (Eph 3:1-7)

[I_Believe]

i wasted 10 years figuring that out and trying to condemn the only church that did have some sort of unity....

sorry for the curtness of this reply, im just tired of stupid arguments..

When you can reconcile the faith of Abraham and the elders with the "New Law" of the Catholic Church then you might have a valid reason to questions someone else's understanding of scripture.

the only church that did have some sort of unity

Unity in corrupt man made doctrine is not biblical unity.


The jailer, being roused out of sleep and seeing the prison doors open, drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, "Don't harm yourself, for we are all here!" He called for lights and sprang in, and, fell down trembling before Paul and Silas, and brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." They spoke the word of the Lord to him, and to all who were in his house. He took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes, and was immediately baptized, he and all his household. (Act 16:27-33)

"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?...Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved"

Every answer to that question from Abraham and the elders through the New Testament has been believe God or believe in Jesus and that faith is counted as righteousness.  All accounts of salvation must reconcile and the only thing mentioned in all accounts is faith (believing God) "...being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform."

After he cared for their wounds he was baptized in obedience to Christ's instruction thus confessing his relationship with Christ that came from his faith through grace.  The baptism was the fruit of living faith, the "good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them."

But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth, and in your heart;" that is, the word of faith, which we preach: that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart, one believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Rom 10:8-10)



If men keep looking at the things that are to be seen by other men then they can expect the same result.

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and unrighteousness. You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the platter, that its outside may become clean also. "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitened tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. (Mat 23:25-28)

Be careful that you don't do your charitable giving before men, to be seen by them, or else you have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. Therefore when you do merciful deeds, don't sound a trumpet before yourself, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may get glory from men. Most certainly I tell you, they have received their reward. But when you do merciful deeds, don't let your left hand know what your right hand does (Mat 6:1-3)

[His Messenger]

Hi all,

I know that when I prayed to accept Christ as my savior many years ago, that I was forgiven of all my sins to that point. I know because I asked for it. My slate was wiped clean. Yet - like all of us - I continue to sin. And I faithfully continue to ask for forgiveness of these sins. But recently, my mother brought up a very intriguing point...

As always - thanks for a push in the right direction!

Try this on for size - Are you saved?  I'm assuming you are.  Then if you are saved then you are in Christ:

1 Cor 1:30  But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
Eph 5:30  For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

You are in Christ (and you are if you are saved) and Christ is in heaven at the right hand of the Father, right?

Then if you are in Christ and Christ is in heaven then you are in heaven right now:

Eph 2:6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

So...stay with me here...when God looks for "fastback" He looks to His right and there sits Jesus Christ and guess who is there in Jesus Christ - you!!!

Question - is Jesus perfect?  Are you in Christ?  Then guess what?  You are perfect in Christ - that is how God sees you, He sees you perfect in Christ.

Now, to the issue at hand - can there be any sin or unforgiveness in heaven?  No, so guess what, you are forgiven in Christ!!!  Now, down here you are in a mess if you are normal like the rest of us saints.  But the real you (in Christ) is seated in heavenly places in Christ, perfect, without sin, forever!!!  This is how God sees the real you.  

Yes, you are allowed to shout on this forum - we are not all dead.  

P.S. - dont' be surprised if some joy-stealer will come behind this post and tell you you have to confess and beg for forgivenss eveytime you mess up - expect this.

May God bless  

Amen

[michael_legna]

You have received some good advice and some bad in the posted responses.

Yes Christ died for all our sins past present and future, but to extrapolate that message to the idea that they are all forgiven is an error.

We still have to repent and seek forgiveness of our sins present and future or they are not forgiven.  In other words Christ's sacrifice is not applied to them.

Read the following verse carefully.

1John 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

IF we confess our sins THEN God will forgive us and cleanse us - both future tense.

Also we see repeated that we will not receive forgiveness if we do not forgive.  So we see forgiveness is conditional.

The following are just a couple example verses that express this concept.

Mark 11:26  But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Luk 6:37  Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

[Kris777]

michael_legna, so are you saying that if we sin and forget to confess it then we loss salvation?