Public Education

[Neo]

It may just be me, but I get a general sense that most posters here (particularly parents) don't think very highly of public education.

Do you or do you not agree with public education? Do you have any specific issues with it? Would you send your children to a public school if you had any, or, if you do, do you/did you have them attend one?

Just curious, is all. For perspective, I'm finishing up my senior year at a public high school, and I've loved all four years here. I'm excited about college, but I know I'm going to miss this place when I leave for Duke next fall.

So... thoughts?

[JudgeNot]

In my opinion, 'public' education is largely (not completely, but largely) indoctrination into the liberal-humanist politically correct platform.  As such, they have invaded the home in that they are attempting to teach their versions of morality.  Morality is better taught in the home.  
I want my daughter learning math, english, geography, science and history.  She doesn't need to know how to put a condom on a cucumber, and our Pastor and I will teach her true morals as God has given us in His written word.

[Neo]

In my opinion, 'public' education is largely (not completely, but largely) indoctrination into the liberal-humanist politically correct platform.  As such, they have invaded the home in that they are attempting to teach their versions of morality.

Could you explain that a little more? What moral principles are being taught with which you don't agree?

She doesn't need to know how to put a condom on a cucumber, and our Pastor and I will teach her true morals as God has given us in His written word.

I've never heard of anyone doing that in Health class. It strikes me as being strangely hilarious, if you want to know the truth, as well as more than a little odd.

How old is your daughter, and does she attend public school?

[JudgeNot]

Neo - the following link will take you to a fairly good 'history' of public education.

http://www.libertyhaven.com/politicsandcurrentevents/educationhomeschoolingorchildren/failureamepublic.shtml

(FYI - My daughter is 17, a high school junior.)

[Neo]

Public, private, or home-schooled?

And out of curiosity, of all the kids that are home-schooled... how many, do you think, have parents that are even remotely qualified to teach high school-level courses? (Calculus, chemistry, physics, biology, English, foreign language, etc.)

[C C]

   I was home schooled--in the sense that I'm a sixth grade graduate.    You may notice I depend heavily on spell check.    My home schooling actually involved me teaching myself, however, I didn't live with my parents--the lady I lived with had 20 other kids to raise so there was only time for hard questions when I was doing my self-teaching. I use lots of smiley icons because I feel that my ability to write how I feel and what I think doesn't accurately convey what I'm thinking.     However, I also don't think like everyone else.  I think it must be because I missed out on the public education indoctrination.  

When I was twenty three I passed the GED exam without studying.  I started at a junior college and now I've graduated from Time Magazine's Liberal Arts College of the year--hectic entrance requirements.  AND I'm smarter than the average bear    That's a joke.  Actually, I'm not much smarter than he average American--but I am smarter than the average bear.     I feel that missing out on junior high and high school was actually to my advantage.  PRAISE GOD!!  As a child, I hated the school environment and actually woke up and thanked God for years and years that I didn't have to go to school.  

So, I wouldn't worry about whether the parents are equipped to teach on certain topics.  When the kids grow up and need those topics taught to them to survive, they can seek out the experts.  In the mean time, they don't have to be sitting for hours and hours getting indoctrinated on the public school's idea of the meaning of life, when the answer is that we're all a cosmic accident.

P.S.  As long as there are tests, there will always be prayer in schools.  

[ebia]

In my opinion, 'public' education is largely (not completely, but largely) indoctrination into the liberal-humanist politically correct platform.  

What evidence do you have for this?

As such, they have invaded the home in that they are attempting to teach their versions of morality.  Morality is better taught in the home.  

Morality needs to be taught in both.
If it isn't taught at home, then schools can't completely make up for that.
If it's not taught at school then:
a:  there's no comonality of morals, and society isn't going to function very well
b:  (more importantly) those kids who aren't taught any moral standards at home (an increasing proportion it seems) are left without any moral framework
c:  kids need to be exposed to a decent moral framework (even if it's not exactly yours) all the time.  If they are going to be in school, then they are in a social environment and the what is and isn't appropriate will need to be talked about frequently.

I want my daughter learning math, english, geography, science and history.

More importantly she needs to learn how to think, how to learn, and how to interact in a social environment.

She doesn't need to know how to put a condom on a cucumber,

What evidence do you have that she would spend more than a miniscule about of time on this sort of thing?   And the fact is, a fair number of the kids do need to know how to put one on.   Indeed, she might for any number of possible medical reasons.

[ebia]

Neo - the following link will take you to a fairly good 'history' of public education.

http://www.libertyhaven.com/politicsandcurrentevents/educationhomeschoolingorchildren/failureamepublic.shtml

Clearly written by a columnist, not an educator - it doesn't even touch on what the purpose of public education is.  Until you do that, talking about how well it does or does not  achieve that is meaningless.

[His_child]

My husband and I were both public schooled.
Because of what we learned in public schools, we have chosen to homeschool for now.

As far as not being qualified to teach certain subjects.....
I didn't know how to potty train a child until I actually had to. We got through potty training between the ages of 2 and 3 so I think we can get through just about anything else.

Good teachers know how to find the information to teach the pupils in which they've been given.

[ebia]

My husband and I were both public schooled.
Because of what we learned in public schools, we have chosen to homeschool for now.

If the public system has equiped you to homeschool competently, it's done pretty well.  If not, ....

As far as not being qualified to teach certain subjects.....
I didn't know how to potty train a child until I actually had to. We got through potty training between the ages of 2 and 3 so I think we can get through just about anything else.

Which show's how much you know.

Good teachers know how to find the information to teach the pupils in which they've been given.[/color]

If you are able to devote more time to learning to teach each topic than the kids need to spend learning it, then fine.  It's not about information, its about genuinely understanding the concepts, the process, how to teach those, and (maybe most of all) understanding what misconceptions are likely to arise, how to avoid them, diagnose and correct them.  Learning the content that you have to teach is the trivial bit.

[sincereheart]

If the public system has equiped you to homeschool competently, it's done pretty well.  If not, ....

Or it could be a matter of learning from the mistakes of public schooling.  

If you are able to devote more time to learning to teach each topic than the kids need to spend learning it, then fine.

*snorts*
The joy of learning something new along with your child is priceless! Wonderful for bonding and definitely shows your child that you're never too old to learn!  


ebia,
Have you ever taught or attended public school in the US?
Have you ever homeschooled or been homeschooled?

[Symphony]

Neo so you're headed to Duke?  Isn't that sorta like Tufts?  Several years ago at Tufts the oncampus Christian club was prohibited becuase it refused to allow gay leaders(I think this was later overturned, thanks to some hard work on some Christian attorneys' part, I think).

But it seems I've seen Duke mentioned in some similar type action; and they are a very secular school, as I recall hearing.

Perhaps that's to advantage though.  Like public school, you can take what you can use, and throw the rest away.  On young, impressionable minds though, that is difficult, if not impossible.

The homeschoolers I know commute with others to classes in the sciences, like in high school.  In some ways it's just duplicating what is offered in thehigh school.  But perhaps witha slightly different, um, "perspective"(and atmosphere  )

I'm undecided whether public school helps toughen you up for the game of life.

Nope, I would definitely steer clear of a public school.  Still, they're the ones who Christ came for.

I've been invited to a public school, and would expect invitations in the future.  But I think they pretty much know I'm going to tie any talk into Jesus Christ somewhere, and I'm guessing they'd get all embarrassed and start wringing their hands, I imagine.

This prohibition on speaking about Jesus Christ (except as an explitive-- ), is what gets me.  And I help pay their salaries.

   
   

[His_child]

My husband and I were both public schooled.
Because of what we learned in public schools, we have chosen to homeschool for now.

If the public system has equiped you to homeschool competently, it's done pretty well.  If not, ....

The public schools severly lacked in teaching many things. I grew up in the Bay Area, my husband grew up in rural MN.
History classes were ok, for the most part.
Goverment classes we learned to laugh at the right and were taught that the issues of the left were serious.
English classes, books like Judy Blume's Wifey (which is a book that condones extra marital affairs) were allowed for book reports.
Science taught the lies of evolution.
Math classes were ok.
Planned Parenthood came to our Health classes on a regular basis.

As far as not being qualified to teach certain subjects.....
I didn't know how to potty train a child until I actually had to. We got through potty training between the ages of 2 and 3 so I think we can get through just about anything else.

Which show's how much you know.

I know enough to know that I've been a mom for 18 years and I'm no where near an expert. Different children learn at different rates. I know my children better than any teacher who has to deal with 20-30 of them at a time.

Good teachers know how to find the information to teach the pupils in which they've been given.[/color]

If you are able to devote more time to learning to teach each topic than the kids need to spend learning it, then fine.  It's not about information, its about genuinely understanding the concepts, the process, how to teach those, and (maybe most of all) understanding what misconceptions are likely to arise, how to avoid them, diagnose and correct them.  Learning the content that you have to teach is the trivial bit.

Then you should do everything in your power to avoid the public schools, private schools, homeschools, etc.
My pastor's wife is a teacher. She went to school to be a music teacher. She teaches music and English, yet English wasn't one of her strong points in college. She does a lot of learning as she is teaching.

[LadyKay4JC]

Public, private, or home-schooled?

And out of curiosity, of all the kids that are home-schooled... how many, do you think, have parents that are even remotely qualified to teach high school-level courses? (Calculus, chemistry, physics, biology, English, foreign language, etc.)

I've got a bachelors in Secondary Education... and my husband has his Masters. We've homeschooled our 10 year old daughter, Sarah since Pre-K! She's two years ahead of the public school.
If you're wanting to get "Biblical" about this then just READ the Bible! It says "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it." Do you ACTUALLY think a child will get the proper training in a Public Environment that will allow him to "not depart from it?" He'll get training alright... sure, the chemistry, biology, Calculus even physics... (worldly wisdom) but will it "train" him to live a godly, moral life?    I'm not all that great at Math myself... but when it comes time for Trig we'll get a tutor!

To me, people who spew out "No Social Interaction" "Not suitable teaching material" Blah blah blah... to me that is a cop out! It is our RIGHT as parents to "train our children".

I went to public school when I was younger... (quite a while ago) and even THEN there was garbage that I wish I'd never seen... my father is a Baptist Minister and he started a Christian School through our church and I LOVED IT! I excelled in my studies and far surpassed the Public School System requirements for graduation.

I've also had others say "You're sheltering your daughter... do you think she'll not SEE *bad* things later on in her life?"  Oh yeah... let's ALL live by THIS principle! DUH! We are "equipping" our daughter to FACE these obstacles later on... she is not strong enough to ward off the "firy darts of the devil" by herself right now... and we, as godly, Christian parents, should not EXPECT that! If you think I'm talking about the Cirriculum then you're SORELY mistaken... there are some GREAT teachers in Public School with great teaching abilities... it's the peer pressure and the worldliness she'd have to face. YES, she has to face that even in our neighborhood... but we can help "control" that.

If you think we are 'controlling' then so be it. But I've SEEN what the public school system has done to many young "Christian" children and we REFUSE to allow that to happen to Sarah.

For what it's worth... *Public Schools* were a "tradition of man" that started in Ancient Greece for "boys!"

ATHENS: In ancient Athens, the purpose of education was to produce citizens trained in the arts, to prepare citizens for both peace and war. Girls were not educated at school, but many learned to read and write at home, in the comfort of their courtyard. Until age 6 or 7, boys were taught at home by their mother or by a male slave. From age 6 to 14, they went to a neighborhood primary school or to a private school. Books were very expensive and rare, so subjects were read out-loud, and the boys had to memorize everything. To help them learn, they used writing tablets and rulers.  

So, what is my "stand" about Public Education? Hmmmm... let's see...    
Christian Education as in Christian Schools? I don't mind them... although I've seen SOME Christian Schools become glorified Public Schools.

For my husband and I, homeschooling is the BEST and most appropriate way to train our daughter... not just for the academics but for the Biblical training of raising "Godly seed" for His Glory.

I'm sure there ARE those who are not "appropriately trained" to teach their children at home... but I applaud and commend them for trying! We use School of Tomorrow Cirriculum and will start Saxon Math for Sarah's 5th grade year... and I'm QUITE pleased with the outcome!

I know enough to know that I've been a mom for 18 years and I'm no where near an expert. Different children learn at different rates. I know my children better than any teacher who has to deal with 20-30 of them at a time.

 From His_Child   (You go girl!)

Lady Kay

P.S. As a side note: I think it was the year before last that at the National Spelling Bee HOMESCHOOLERS won first and second place...   Hmmmm.... interesting!

[Symphony]

Yes, I've seen local press on some homeschoolers succeeding at this competition or that competition.  And right in the page of the newspaper where typically it's the public school's event.

So it was good to see the homeschoolers excelling, doing well.  Plus, they have to carry a double burden--much of their annual property taxes go to support the public school, in addition to coming up with their own curriculum.

Our public schools are apparently pretty "tolerant" of like the gay thing, and I'm only waiting now for them to become dictatorial about it.  Public schools can sometimes be fairly bureaucratic and dictatorial.  I think I distrust them because of the bureaucratic aspect--people are just there to do "a job".  It's not a "love"--tho for younger teachers perhaps early on they have ideals.

But when I saw the publicity for the homeschoolers, all of a sudden I began to realize--hey, this thing can swing the other way too--which is one of the reasons secular education is wary sometimes of the homeschoolers, I'm thinking.  What if homeschoolers become so successful, they not only have superior acumen--which some obviously do or will, but they become the aggressor??

Just something that occurred to me.  

I think one of their familiar examples is like the Spanish Inquisition, where the church was the State.