Sports Fighting

[Tibby]

Anyone in to Martial Arts of any kind? Bxoing, Wrestling, Karate, Judo, anything?

[Whitehorse]

Tae Kwon Do.

[Tibby]

How long have you been in it? Every go to torunaments?

[Whitehorse]

Actually I'm practicing privately now because I moved. My instructor didn't have us participate in tournaments because it conflicted with his philosophy of martial arts. He was also worried about injuries because of the money involved. So I never did. I'm excited for other people who participate; it must be very exciting! But out of loyalty to my instructor I probably won't. I'm trying to find a good school where I live that teaches Chung Do Kwon Tae Kwon Do, but I don't think I'll ever find the kind of instructor I had. He was top quality.

How about you? What do you do?

[Tibby]

I used to box. That is how I got into weightlifting, which I love. I did Karate for a while, too. I give Kick Boxing a try, it was fun, but I'm not a big fan of kicking. I've always been able to put more power and force into my punches with out going off balance. I guess my Boxing just go me used to using my hands. Now, I'm trying my hand at Jiujutsu, and I love it, more then ANY other fighting sport. The Problem with Karate is it takes out a lot of grappling. It still has a little for self defense, but not much. Some arts have no Grappling at all, they tell their students to shove the grappler way and kick him! But then again, I take all my martial Arts mainly for the sports aspect of it, not Self Defense. I'm sorry if this sound cocky, but my muscular build scares off more would be attackers.

I went to the Jujutsu school I'm going to know because it does a lot of Judo Training. I like to watch Sumo Wrestling, which is a lot like Judo in Practice. Many think it is just shoving the foe out of the ring, it isn't. They Practice many, many throws, which is what I'm really enjoying. I LOVE to throw. I think it is fun to be thrown and throw, and my body is made for it. I'm short (around 5'4") with shoulder very board from Boxing and weightlifting, so it makes throws easy for me. My 6'4" Sensei has to squat down to pick me up and throw me, I just have to run under him and BAM, he is on his back, lol. Don't get me wrong, he can kill me, but talk a guy his size with the same skill level as me, and I'll make fast work of him! It is great.

Anyways, you get the idea, I'm into a lot of Martial Arts. But I don't believe in sports fighting. My belief is that fighting skill is a power, a power with 2 purposes. One, as a sport against OTHER skilled fighters, and two, to defend those without such power against those who choose to misuse their power.

It is great that your respect your Master so, but I'd advise going to another school. Give judo a try, or Aikido. Not that you have TKD (a striking art) down, you might want to give a Grappling art a try, just to come full circle. Beside, I've found I learn different things from my Karate, Boxing, and Kick Boxing masters. Just like in Christianity, no master is infallible with the fighting arts. They al have a piece to add. The more you learn and objectively look at, the better you will become. I’m not trying to give you off of TKD, I just think you might want to give a few months at another school to get a different view at Martial Arts. I mean, it is called MARTIAL, meaning war-like, it is fighting sport, injury is a part of it. Try to avoid injury, but don’t fear it. It happens to the best.

[Whitehorse]

Yes! I've been wanting to try Aikido for a long while. I like it because it uses the opponent's own energy to turn him away. The thing about Tae Kwon Do is that it is very powerful, being mostly comprised of kicks. Pretty good thing for women and people without a lot of strength, but if you have to use a technique the other guy is really in for a strong technique, and I'm not sure I always would want to resort to that in a self-defense situation. We had some instructors who had some training in karate, so we did learn a few other techniques, but you're right; I'd like to have a broader range of experience and more options.

Our instructor was very good. He wanted to teach us philosophy of the art as well as the technique. He was worried we would learn different habits from other instructors, and he liked nurturing our spirit toward the art and how we used it. The first thing he taught us was the motto of the masters, even before we learned how to respect the uniform, the Do Jung, or even him. It seemed important, and I certainly thought it was:

I come to you in peace and brotherly love for I carry no weapon. But in defense of my God, my country, my loved ones or my honor, these are my weapons: my empty hands and feet.

Yeah, guess I better start looking for a new school. Bummer.

[Tibby]

Yes, that is what a lot of my master are like. They Believe training the Character is just as important as training the body. I current master (The Jiujutsu one) goes as far as to say if you can’t see a change in someone from the time they are white belts to the time they are black belts, they are not True masters!

I have to agree, I could tell some stories about Powerlifting to you. At the risk of sounding like a Jedi Master, I have to admit it is all in your head. YOU choose to do it or not. “Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.” That is true. It isn’t some mystic martial arts secret, this is simple sport physiology.

That is true, I’m am not trying to assume anything, but I’m guessing you are a smaller person. DO you think you can get into a kicking match with a 350 Muay Thai Master? That is the problem with women in Karate and Tea Kwon Do, they are great arts, but they are muscle arts. Aikido is like Jiujutsu, with less strength. I’ve seen it, it is great. And the masters of that art are deadly. With those baggy clothes, you never know where the feet are going to land. I have to agree with my Kick Boxing sparring partner, when he humorously (and accidentally) said “Never fight a Aikido Master with his pants on.” lol. You should give Aikido a try, tell me what is it like. Loyalty for your master is admirable, but remember what I said about different styles having a different piece of the puzzle. Have fun!   That is, after all, the most important.

[Whitehorse]

The inertia aspect of Aikido certainly is tempting. You must be a really great fighter with all those arts under your belt. You must have started young! Have you tried chucks or anything?

[Tibby]

Yeah, Jiujutsu has a lot of it, too, the using your foes force against himself.When he swings, let him swings, when he knocks, open the door, and see him our the back.

Never really got into the numchucks, but I make up for it with plenty of Sword and Staff styles. I like them because 9 times out of ten, you are going to get something like a pool cue or a broom stick, or my trusty telescoping baton, these things similar to swords and staffs. How many weapons can you find on hand that resemble chucks? I used to work for a Ren Faire, and we learned fencings, and I was a part of Amtgard, a sword fighting reenactments group. On top of that, my Master in Ishenryu (sp?) karate taught an Escreama class (Which his a Philippino sword style) right after Karate, and I stayed a few times, learned some moves. One day, if I ever find a school, I hope to give Kendo a shot. It looks like lots of fun! But anyways, no, never spend much time with the chucks are 3 secton staff or any of that.

[Whitehorse]

My experience with chucks is limited to one really good knock in the head. I know you're supposed to use the trainers first, but I didn't have any, and I was gung ho! I want to do the chucks for the irrational reason that they're wierd. That's it. No other reason. They're wierd, and there's the challenge of not knocking yourself out cold when you're learning. Is that crazy? (Well, don't answer that!   )

I know someone who did the staff. What art is that? She was in our class, but no one knew it but her. She warmed up with it and I thought it was cool. That is a really good point about the practicality, though. The staff is a lot more practical because you can grab something similar to use if the need ever arose. For the chucks I guess I could remove my shoes and tie the laces together!  

[Neo]

I also practice Tae Kwon Do. I enjoy it immensely, but the self-defense application requires a tremendous amount of self-control -- a perfectly executed technique in TKD will either break someone's bones or kill them.  

While it does emphasize kicks over other techniques, it sometimes gets a bad rap from other martial artists; we don't have much use for the high, flashy kicks (at least not in my school) except for demonstrations. The flying kicks were originally created to allow Korean warriors to kick Samurai invaders off of their horses. I still prefer kicking over punching, though, probably because my training has made my legs stronger, faster, and more accurate than my arms.

How long have you trained in TKD, Whitehorse? Do your katas include the tae guk forms of the WTF or the ITF forms (Chon Ji, Tan Gun, etc.)?

[Tibby]

The Staff is every Art. Kung Fu, Aikido, Karate, Jiujutsu, NinJustsu, they all practice the Staff. We even did a little staff at the Ren Faire. Aisde from the sword, it is in doubt the most popular weapon world wide. I mean, think about how useful it is. You can bash an attacker over the head with it, but you can also use it to keep balance while walking or hiking, you can herd cattle and sheep with it, you can reach things higher then your arms can reach with it. It is so much more then a weapon, no wonder everyone from both the east and the west use them!

Neo, yeah, Most every Master I’ve had bashes TKD. My Jiujutsu master right now took Juijutsu from Korean master who also taught TKD, and he bad mouths it every chance. My Karate master had a student in our class who took TKD from one of the largest Martial Arts School in the Area, and he showed her much better ways for self-defense. When a Karate man is showing you how to grapple, you know your Martial art education is missing something! lol Most of the TKD schools I’ve seen are a rip, but hey, if it is good enough for Vann Dam, it is good enough for me! lol For real, TKD does get a bad rap for being “pretty” and not practical. The basic kicks are the same kick you learn in Karate or Kung Fu! The main problem I’ve had, from the amount of TKD I’ve seen, the most grappling they do is “if you opponent gets to close, shove him away and kick him.” That is fine if you are in it for a sport, or if you are a 350 lbs, 7 foot block of muscle, but what if we are talking about a 90 lbs weakling or a lady? A kicking match is the last thing you want to do!
 
I’ve never heard about the Hwarang using jump kicks used to take down mounted opponents. That is very interesting.

[Whitehorse]

Hi, Neo!

Yes, TKD is very powerful. It does take a lot longer to master control as you say, because even the kicks are performed differently from karate. The karate kicks are powered from the knee. So that's really a more gentle kick, which is fine if that's all you need. But there may be an occasion where you really do need a TKD kick. The balance is maintained by slight differences in positioning, and yes, we do need a lot more control because where does the power come from? Not the knee, but the hip. So, the force of your whole body goes into that. So it's good for a difficult attacker, or for those without a lot of bulk or strength.

We used tae guk up to ee chung, then switched to paul gae. We kept that the rest of the way up. But thery're so similar, though, and having the ill chung and ee chung really made for a smoother transition IMHO. What did you guys use?

[Tibby]

Hi, Neo!

Yes, TKD is very powerful. It does take a lot longer to master control as you say, because even the kicks are performed differently from karate. The karate kicks are powered from the knee. So that's really a more gentle kick, which is fine if that's all you need. But there may be an occasion where you really do need a TKD kick. The balance is maintained by slight differences in positioning, and yes, we do need a lot more control because where does the power come from? Not the knee, but the hip. So, the force of your whole body goes into that. So it's good for a difficult attacker, or for those without a lot of bulk or strength.

Karate uses Crescent kicks and other such kicks that draw from the hips, as well kicks that allow for better aim by using from the knees. TKD doesn’t use Snap kicks and roundhouses? The problem IS power. Who has to. What if we are talking about a tough as nails Army Ranger who is picking the fight? A kick from a part time Martial Artist? He will laugh and toss you to the ground.

[Whitehorse]

The crescent kick we lead from the hip as well. That's what makes balance so crucial, and difficult to master at first. We *lead* from the hip: I'm not saying we didn't use the knee; we didn't *lead* from the knee. Makes a big difference. But that's where you don't have the spin to create inertia. When you do this, you do lead from the shoulder, but that creates the inertia to bring more power to your hip. Power isn't the problem; it's a lack of knowledge. So if you're up against gruff, that's precisely when you need that power.

So thare!