THE ONE TRUE CHURCH

[The Crusader]

Was Posted By Ambassador4Christ on the thread Two Minutes With The Bible
======================================
THE ONE TRUE CHURCH

By Cornelius R. Stam

Religious people -- even sincere Christian people -- may
divide themselves into various denominations or churches,
but there is no indication in the Bible that God recognizes
these divisions. Indeed, God makes it abundantly clear that
in His sight there is but one Church, composed of all who
truly trust in the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior. In
I Cor. 12:12,13 the Apostle Paul declares by divine inspira-
tion:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the mem-
bers of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ:

"FOR BY ONE SPIRIT ARE WE ALL BAPTIZED INTO ONE
BODY...."

Again, in Rom. 12:5, he says:

"SO WE, BEING MANY, ARE ONE BODY IN CHRIST, AND EVERY
ONE MEMBERS ONE OF ANOTHER."

Indeed, it is on the basis of the fact that there is but "one
body" in God’s sight that He exhorts us to seek to "keep the
unity of the Spirit":

"ENDEAVORING TO KEEP THE UNITY OF THE SPIRIT IN THE
BOND OF PEACE.

"THERE IS ONE BODY...." (Eph. 4:3,4).

How can we become members of that "one Body ," the true
Church? Ephesians 2 explains how Christ died for all, Jew
and Gentile alike, "that He might reconcile both unto God in
one body by the cross..." (Ver. 16). Indeed the Epistles of
St. Paul show how God "hath concluded... all in unbelief
that He might have mercy upon all" (Rom. 11:32), and offer
to them reconciliation and salvation by grace through faith
in Christ who died for our sins.

The question, then, is not: What church do you belong to?
but, Do you belong to the Church, the Body of Christ, com-
posed of all who have acknowledged themselves to be sin-
ners in the sight of God and have trusted in Christ and
His finished work for salvation?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Subscribe at:
http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/twominut.html
Two Minutes With The Bible By Pastor Stam

Mailing Address:
Berean Bible Society
N112 W17761 Mequon Road
P.O. Box 756
Germantown, WI 53022

Web Site:
http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/
Gospel Books, Materials, & Free Mailings

Email: berean@execpc.com

[sincereheart]

THE ONE TRUE CHURCH

By Cornelius R. Stam

Religious people -- even sincere Christian people -- may
divide themselves into various denominations or churches,
but there is no indication in the Bible that God recognizes
these divisions. Indeed, God makes it abundantly clear that
in His sight there is but one Church, composed of all who
truly trust in the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior. In
I Cor. 12:12,13 the Apostle Paul declares by divine inspira-
tion:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the mem-
bers of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ:

"FOR BY ONE SPIRIT ARE WE ALL BAPTIZED INTO ONE
BODY...."

Again, in Rom. 12:5, he says:

"SO WE, BEING MANY, ARE ONE BODY IN CHRIST, AND EVERY
ONE MEMBERS ONE OF ANOTHER."

Indeed, it is on the basis of the fact that there is but "one
body" in God’s sight that He exhorts us to seek to "keep the
unity of the Spirit":

"ENDEAVORING TO KEEP THE UNITY OF THE SPIRIT IN THE
BOND OF PEACE.

"THERE IS ONE BODY...." (Eph. 4:3,4).

How can we become members of that "one Body ," the true
Church? Ephesians 2 explains how Christ died for all, Jew
and Gentile alike, "that He might reconcile both unto God in
one body by the cross..." (Ver. 16). Indeed the Epistles of
St. Paul show how God "hath concluded... all in unbelief
that He might have mercy upon all" (Rom. 11:32), and offer
to them reconciliation and salvation by grace through faith
in Christ who died for our sins.

The question, then, is not: What church do you belong to?
but, Do you belong to the Church, the Body of Christ, com-
posed of all who have acknowledged themselves to be sin-
ners in the sight of God and have trusted in Christ and
His finished work for salvation?

[niceguyny]

The truth is that there are a multitude of religions which belive in the bible, yet many of there core beliefs are very diffrent , and their doctorines vary. There religions that believe in worshiping idols, yet the bible cleary states that is wrong. There are religions that belive that God the father, the son Jesus Christ and the holy Ghost are all one person, yet when the Savior was baptized, all three were represented indivualy: Jesus in the water, the voice of God the father stating He was please with his Son, and the dove, the symbol of the Holy Ghost. There are many groups that say they are christian and yet they all belive diffrent things, many of which are outright contrary to what the Bible says. I blieve that we all are children of God, and having faith in the Savior is what unites us all, and happiness will come through that faith. But God is not a God of confusion,   and having so many churches based on one book , yet diffreing so much in there doctrine is utter and complete confusion. When Jesus walked the earth, he oraginzed a church, or at least some level of organization for his followers. Just read the new testament and see for your self. He called apostles. He called preachers. When moses was overwhlemed with his duties in the old testament, his father in law directed him to call a group of 70 men to help him direct the church. And if that wasnt enough , call more. There is an obvoius level or organization to what was considered the "true church".And if we all belive that baptisim is nessary for forgivness of sins, is every baptisim performed by any clergy man an accpeted baptisim? When jesus was going to be baptised, he could have went to anyone to perform the baptisim, but he didn't. He went to John the Baptistis, the one who had the athurity to actualy perform the baptisim. AN ordincace like that has to be done with the authority of God. If it is not, then it is just a baptisim from a man, and not in the name of God.
So there must needs be some sort of organization. And if someone has the authority to perform a baptisim in the name of God, like John did, how can someone whos belifes are completly diffrent, and doctorine is complete changed have the same authroity? You can't. I present this post with the utmost respect to all. But these are just some observations I have had apoun reading the good book. I welcome all your responses, feel free to email me. I mean no disrespect to anyone.

[Warrior For Christ]

In this present dispensation of the grace of God there is only one church, which is called the body of Christ. It consists of all those who are saved and it had its beginning with the salvation of the Apostle Paul (Rom. 11:11; I Cor. 12:13, 27; Eph. 1:22-23, 3:1-11, 4:12; Col. 1:18, 24-25; I Tim.1:14-16).

[Brother Love]

Was Posted By Ambassador4Christ on the thread Two Minutes With The Bible
======================================
THE ONE TRUE CHURCH

By Cornelius R. Stam

Religious people -- even sincere Christian people -- may
divide themselves into various denominations or churches,
but there is no indication in the Bible that God recognizes
these divisions. Indeed, God makes it abundantly clear that
in His sight there is but one Church, composed of all who
truly trust in the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior. In
I Cor. 12:12,13 the Apostle Paul declares by divine inspira-
tion:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the mem-
bers of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ:

"FOR BY ONE SPIRIT ARE WE ALL BAPTIZED INTO ONE
BODY...."

Again, in Rom. 12:5, he says:

"SO WE, BEING MANY, ARE ONE BODY IN CHRIST, AND EVERY
ONE MEMBERS ONE OF ANOTHER."

Indeed, it is on the basis of the fact that there is but "one
body" in God’s sight that He exhorts us to seek to "keep the
unity of the Spirit":

"ENDEAVORING TO KEEP THE UNITY OF THE SPIRIT IN THE
BOND OF PEACE.

"THERE IS ONE BODY...." (Eph. 4:3,4).

How can we become members of that "one Body ," the true
Church? Ephesians 2 explains how Christ died for all, Jew
and Gentile alike, "that He might reconcile both unto God in
one body by the cross..." (Ver. 16). Indeed the Epistles of
St. Paul show how God "hath concluded... all in unbelief
that He might have mercy upon all" (Rom. 11:32), and offer
to them reconciliation and salvation by grace through faith
in Christ who died for our sins.

The question, then, is not: What church do you belong to?
but, Do you belong to the Church, the Body of Christ, com-
posed of all who have acknowledged themselves to be sin-
ners in the sight of God and have trusted in Christ and
His finished work for salvation?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Subscribe at:
http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/twominut.html
Two Minutes With The Bible By Pastor Stam

Mailing Address:
Berean Bible Society
N112 W17761 Mequon Road
P.O. Box 756
Germantown, WI 53022

Web Site:
http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/
Gospel Books, Materials, & Free Mailings

Email: berean@execpc.com

I sure LOVE C.R.Stam.

Amen

Brother Love

[ollie]

In this present dispensation of the grace of God there is only one church, which is called the body of Christ. It consists of all those who are saved and it had its beginning with the salvation of the Apostle Paul (Rom. 11:11; I Cor. 12:13, 27; Eph. 1:22-23, 3:1-11, 4:12; Col. 1:18, 24-25; I Tim.1:14-16).

"It consists of all those who are saved and it had its beginning with the salvation of the Apostle Paul"  

If the church had its beginning with the salvation of Paul then what church was in existence for such as should be saved in Acts 2:47?
What church is refered to in Acts 2? Was it before Pauls conversion? What church did Saul persecute if it began with Paul?

Ollie

[JudgeNot]

What church is refered to in Acts 2? Was it before Pauls conversion? What church did Saul persecute if it began with Paul?

He-he-he
I like that brother Ollie.  I like it a lot!

John 1:1-5 (Which, lately I seem to quote more often than any other scripture!)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Translation: Jesus has always been and always will be. (After all - He is God!) So how old is "the church"?  Forever past and forever to come.
 

[Evangelist]

Michael Legna says:

Certainly there can be no division in God’s one true Church but God certainly is smart enough to recognize that what man recognizes as divisions are indeed true divisions cutting each Church that suffers under these erroneous doctrines off from the one true Church.  So yes God does recognize these divisions, He just doesn’t recognize them as being within the one true Church.

Isa 44:3   For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:
Isa 44:4   And they shall spring up [as] among the grass, as willows by the water courses.
Isa 44:5   One shall say, I [am] the LORD'S; and another shall call [himself] by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe [with] his hand unto the LORD, and surname [himself] by the name of Israel.
Isa 44:6   Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.

1Cr 12:5   And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Cr 12:6   And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

What God does not like is anyone with the unmitigated gall to declare that their church is the "one true church" and the only holder of truth.

No where in the scriptures doe it tell us that Christ’s finished work was all that was needed for us to be saved

"Whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it" (Ecclesiastes 3:14).

Rom 10:9   That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10   For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Now, if Christ's wonderful work of paying for our forgiveness and salvation is finished, what is there left for us to do to implement it for ourselves personally?

There is nothing left for us to do! "The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23). One does not receive a free gift by working for it, or by doing something more to be sure he gets it.

He can refuse to accept it, of course, if he does not want it. But if he considers the proffered gift to be desirable, and truly wants to have it, he must simply accept it gratefully, thanking the one providing it. "In (Christ) we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace" (Ephesians 1:7).

We are saved, of course, entirely by God's grace, plus nothing. We then, however, become "His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10).

[nChrist]

Evangelist Said:
 
What God does not like is anyone with the unmitigated gall to declare that their church is the "one true church" and the only holder of truth.

Amen Brother Evangelist!

It is an embarrassment to see someone claiming a structure of men to be the only holder of truth in a Bible Study Area. In looking at your writing, I don't think you will have any problem in proclaiming who holds the TRUTH. I'm also positive that you won't have any problem in describing THE CHURCH. I'm positive both will be quite Biblical and without the possibility of refuting. Brother, it's time to do a Bible Study, and I would really enjoy participating with you.
 

michael_legna Said:

Do you have scripture to back up that claim or is it just your personal opinion (putting words in God's mouth if it comes from outside of sola scriptura).

But guess what I did not declare the Church I attend to be the "oone true Church" - Jesus did in the very first verse where the word appears.

Mat 16:18  And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Michael,

It's a shame and a disgrace to see something like this in a Bible Study area. I did not intend this to be harsh, simply a plain statement of the TRUTH. You and I are not the TRUTH. If you take all of the churches listed in the largest telephone book in the world, none of them are the TRUTH. It is time for a Bible Study, and I hope to make my first post in a couple of hours. Matthew 16:18 will be fine for a start. I hope that Evangelist and others will join in with us. This won't be a debate, nor should it have the characteristics of a debate.  

[michael_legna]

It's a shame and a disgrace to see something like this in a Bible Study area.

I don't understand your point at all.

Evangelist Said:
 
What God does not like is anyone with the unmitigated gall to declare that their church is the "one true church" and the only holder of truth.


I called him on this and asked him...

Do you have scripture to back up that claim... which in my mind is exactly the type of question one should be ready to answer in a Bible Study area.

If he could not provide a verse that says this, then I would be correct in accusing him of it being

... just your personal opinion.

If it is just his opinion and yet he has the gaul to say that God hates it - then he is  

...putting words in God's mouth.

I might have been harsh but I do not like to let people get away with speaking for God out of one side of their mouth without being able to back it up with scripture while at the same time claiming sola scriptura out of the other side of their mouth.

Perhaps you need to explain to me what a Bible Study area is for if it is not for looking to see what the Bible has to say rather than making statements of opinion without scriptural support as Evangelist did.

[nChrist]

Michael_Legna,

I already have much of a study done on this subject, but I'm going to stop and pray about how far I want to go with this. I may not even honor your post with a reply. Your claim that the Catholic church is THE CHURCH is so ridiculous and ignorant that I don't know that I could have this discussion in a civil manner. Your mention of Matthew 16:18 in hinting at your claim doesn't rate a beginner's understanding of the New Testament. At best, it is a Greek play on words that Peter finally understood, but he didn't then, and you don't now. The Greek play on words is really pretty funny when you understand it.

I'll give you a few hints and decide after some additional prayer if I wish to go forward with this. If I do, it will be extremely rude. Peter is not the rock THE CHURCH was built upon. Peter was a nickname given to him by Jesus meaning stone - a movable kind of stone - probably one that could be thrown. The ROCK which THE CHURCH was built upon is NOT movable and NOT Peter. If you will notice 2 verses later, Jesus is telling Peter "get behind me Satan". See if you can guess what Peter was told by our LORD shortly before the crucifixion, and see if you can remember the reply of Peter. You will have to study Matthew 16:16-21 to get a clue what Verse 18 means. One last clue - Peter preached a sermon that will explain Matthew 16:18, and Peter is not the subject of the sermon.

Michael, the Catholic church is nothing but a pile of movable stones from the earth, as are all the rest of man's churches. The walls, foundation, and ceilings of the Catholic church are corruptible, and there is nothing unique in a Godly manner about the people who walk in the door there or the people who are in charge there. Many of the leaders and those in attendance will spend eternity in hell, just like all of men's devised denominations and corruptible structures.

Tom  

[Brother Love]

Michael_Legna,

I already have much of a study done on this subject, but I'm going to stop and pray about how far I want to go with this. I may not even honor your post with a reply. Your claim that the Catholic church is THE CHURCH is so ridiculous and ignorant that I don't know that I could have this discussion in a civil manner. Your mention of Matthew 16:18 in hinting at your claim doesn't rate a beginner's understanding of the New Testament. At best, it is a Greek play on words that Peter finally understood, but he didn't then, and you don't now. The Greek play on words is really pretty funny when you understand it.

I'll give you a few hints and decide after some additional prayer if I wish to go forward with this. If I do, it will be extremely rude. Peter is not the rock THE CHURCH was built upon. Peter was a nickname given to him by Jesus meaning stone - a movable kind of stone - probably one that could be thrown. The ROCK which THE CHURCH was built upon is NOT movable and NOT Peter. If you will notice 2 verses later, Jesus is telling Peter "get behind me Satan". See if you can guess what Peter was told by our LORD shortly before the crucifixion, and see if you can remember the reply of Peter. You will have to study Matthew 16:16-21 to get a clue what Verse 18 means. One last clue - Peter preached a sermon that will explain Matthew 16:18, and Peter is not the subject of the sermon.

Michael, the Catholic church is nothing but a pile of movable stones from the earth, as are all the rest of man's churches. The walls, foundation, and ceilings of the Catholic church are corruptible, and there is nothing unique in a Godly manner about the people who walk in the door there or the people who are in charge there. Many of the leaders and those in attendance will spend eternity in hell, just like all of men's devised denominations and corruptible structures.

Tom  

Its been along time Tom, since I coud say AMEN to one of your posts.

Brother Love

<))><

[ollie]

Your claim that the Catholic church is THE CHURCH is so ridiculous and ignorant that I don't know that I could have this discussion in a civil manner.

Whether you agree with the Michael's interpretation or not, its a bit over the top to claim something is "ridiculous and ignorant" when it has been the interpretation accepted by the the vast majority of Christians for the vast majority of 2000 years.  Whether it's right or wrong, its got far more scholarship behind it than everyone here combined (Michael included) could throw a stick at.

Secular history has shown that what you say is true.

The church at Rome seems to have much scholarly knowledge and wisdom of men, but it has drifted over thousand of years from the "mind of Christ" that Paul said it had in the first century. Compare the actions of the church at Rome, for the last 1700 years, with what we have revealed as the mind of Christ. Any comparison?

  1 Corinthians 2:16.  For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

"We" in the verse meaning all the congregations in Christ, not just Rome's congregation, all those called by God's word, then and now. That particular writing was directed to the church at Corinth and all that in every place call upon the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:2.  Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Ollie

[michael_legna]

Secular history has shown that what you say is true.

The church at Rome seems to have much scholarly knowledge and wisdom of men, but it has drifted over thousand of years from the "mind of Christ" that Paul said it had in the first century. Compare the actions of the church at Rome, for the last 1700 years, with what we have revealed as the mind of Christ. Any comparison?

1 Corinthians 2:16.  For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

The Church has made mistakes in its relations with others in the past but what specifically in the past 1700 years would lead you to believe that they no longer have the mind of Christ as other Christians do?

"We" in the verse meaning all the congregations in Christ, not just Rome's congregation, all those called by God's word, then and now. That particular writing was directed to the church at Corinth and all that in every place call upon the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:2.  Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Do you mean to imply that the Catholic Church for the last 1700 years has stopped calling on the name of the Lord?  What do you base this opinion on?

The Church has always seen Jesus Christ as it's head.  They recognize salvation only comes through Christ.

There is even a Society within the Church which emphasizes reverence of His name (called the Holy Name Society - my father was a member).  It tries to remind everyone to bow their head or genuflect at each mention of the name Jesus or Christ.

Phi 2:10  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

When was the last time you saw a Protestant do that routinely?

[Evangelist]

Michael:
Let me begin by saying I am not, and did not intend anything to be taken as RCC bashing....so please try to adopt a little less defensive/offensive tone. Second, on the assumption that you ascribe to Jesus' atonement and resurrection as the basis of your salvation, then I recognize (assume, accept) that you are a brother in Christ, not an enemy.  Considering that a recent encyclical reiterated the RCC position that salvation cannot be found outside of the RCC, I doubt you would accord me the same honor, and therein lies the crux of disagreement.

Quote:
What God does not like is anyone with the unmitigated gall to declare that their church is the "one true church" and the only holder of truth.

Do you have scripture to back up that claim or is it just your personal opinion (putting words in God's mouth if it comes from outside of sola scriptura).

Isa 10:1 Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness [which] they have prescribed;
Eze 34:2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe [be] to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Luk 11:44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over [them] are not aware [of them].
Luk 11:47 Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
Luk 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Rev 2:6   But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
Rev 2:9   I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 2:15   So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
Rev 2:20   Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Rev 3:9   Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Eze 8:12   Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.
Eze 8:13   He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, [and] thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
Eze 8:14   Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which [was] toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
Eze 8:15   Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen [this], O son of man? turn thee yet again, [and] thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
Eze 8:16   And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, [were] about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
Eze 8:17   Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen [this], O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.
Eze 8:18   Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, [yet] will I not hear them.

There are many more verses in scripture that are plainly an indictment by God against those who claim to speak for Him when they indeed do not...and that includes (see Nicaolaitans) those who claim they are the sole holder of truth.

But guess what I did not declare the Church I attend to be the "oone true Church" - Jesus did in the very first verse where the word appears.
Mat 16:18  And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

An open declaration was unnecessary, since what you say is the same thing promulgated by the RCC and the Eastern Orthodox church, and the Mormons, and the Branch Davidians, and the JW's, and ........on and on. As to your interpretation of what Jesus meant, that is dealt with later.

Due to post length, it is continued below