Homeschool

[sincereheart]

Just for you, Tibby  .... Do you think these would be considered MORE or LESS adjusted after they left home?

ARTISTS:
~Leonardo da Vinci
~Claude Monet
~John Singleton Copley
~Andrew Wyeth
~Jamie Wyeth
COMPOSERS:
~Irving Berlin
~Anton Bruckner
~Felix Mendelssohn
~Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
~Francis Poulenc
EDUCATORS:
~Fred Terman (Stanford University President)
~William Samuel Johnson (Columbia University President)
~Frank Vandiver (Texas A&M University President)
~John Withersthingy (Princeton University President)
GENERALS:
~Stonewall Jackson
~Robert E. Lee
~Douglas Mac Arthur
~George Patton
INVENTORS:
~Alexander Graham Bell
~Thomas Edison
~Cyrus McCormick
~Orville Wright
~Wilbur Wright
PRESIDENTS:
~John Quincy Adams
~William Henry Harrison
~Thomas Jefferson
~Abraham Lincoln
~James Madison
~Franklin Delano Roosevelt
~Theodore Roosevelt
~John Tyler
~George Washington
~Woodrow Wilson
PREACHERS & RELIGIOUS LEADERS:
~Moses
~Joan of Arc
~John the Baptist
~William Cary
~Jonathan Edwards
~Phillip Melanchthon
~Dwight L. Moody
~John Newton
~John Owen
~Charles Wesley
~John Wesley
~Brigham Young
SCIENTISTS:
~George Washington Carver
~Pierre Curie
~Albert Einstein
~Blaise Pascal
~Booker T. Washington
STATESMEN:
~Konrad Adenauer
~Winston Churchill
~Benjamin Franklin
~Patrick Henry
~William Penn
~Henry Clay
U.S SUPPREME COURT JUDGES:
~John Jay
~John Marshall
~John Rutledge
WRITERS:
~Hans Christian Andersen
~Pearl S. Buck
~Agatha Christie
~Charles thingyens
~Bret Harte
~C.S. Lewis
~Sean O'Casey
~George Bernard Shaw
~Mark Twain
~Mercy Warren
~Daniel Webster
~Phillis Wheatley
CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION DELEGATES:
~Richard Basset (Governor of Delaware)
~William Blount (U.S. Senator)
~George Clymer (U.S. Representative)
~William Few (U.S. Senator)
~Benjamin Franklin (Inventor and Statesman)
~William Houston (Lawyer)
~William S. Johnson (President of Columbia C.)
~William Livingston (Governor of New Jersey)
~James Madison - 4th President of the U.S.
~George Mason
~John Francis Mercer (U.S. Representative)
~Charles Pickney III (Governor of S. Carolina)
~John Rutledge (Chief Justice U.S. Supreme Court)
~Richard D. Spaight (Governor of N. Carolina)
~George Washington - 1st President of the U.S.
~John Withersthingy (President of Princeton U.)
~George Wythe (Justice of Virginia High Court)
OTHERS:
~Abigail Adams (Wife of John Adams)
~Ansel Adams (Photographer)
~Clara Barton (Started the Red Cross)
~John Burroughs (Naturalist)
~Andrew Carnegie (Industrialist)
~Charles Chaplin (Actor)
~George Rogers Clark - Explorer
~Noel Coward (Playwright)
~John Paul Jones (Father of the American Navy)
~Sandra Day O'Connor
~Tamara McKinney (World Cup Skier)
~John Stuart Mill (Economist)
~Charles Louis Montesquieu (Philosopher)
~Florence Nightingale (Nurse)
~Sally Ride (Astronaut)
~Bill Ridell (Newspaperman)
~George Rogers Clark (Explorer)
~Will Rogers (Humorist)
~Jim Ryan (World Runner)
~Albert Schweitzer (Physician)
~Leo Tolstoy
~Martha Washington (Wife of George Washington)

[sincereheart]

· "A study of adults who were home educated found that none were unemployed and none were on welfare"

That would be a good thing, eh?

"Social Activity and Emotional Development

· Studying actual observed behavior, Dr. Shyers (1992) found the home educated have significantly lower problem behavior scores than do their conventional school agemates.5
· Multiple studies show that the home educated have positive self-concepts.2
· Homeschool students are regularly engaged in field trips, scouting, 4-H, and community volunteer work, and their parents (i.e., their main role models) are significantly more civically involved than are public school parents.2"

What was that last line? Let me take another look....

and their parents (i.e., their main role models) are significantly more civically involved than are public school parents


* Brian D. Ray, Ph.D., is a researcher, writer, and speaker, a former professor of education and science (at the undergraduate and graduate levels), a former middle school and high school classroom teacher, and is the president of the National Home Education Research Institute. Dr. Ray holds his Ph.D. in science education from Oregon State University.

[Tibby]

By the way, if you can't prove it, just say so and we can move on....

So much for that brain child, eh?

I got to get to class, I'll post more later.

[sincereheart]

So much for that brain child, eh?

Wrong 'brain child', Tibby. These would be the correct ones:

Being a good Student and a good Citizen are not one and the same.

The fact that I didn’t give in studies, and that neither did you:

So I have begun to show findings to back up what I've said. If you can't, then just say so....


They will throw out facts about Homeschoolers being better students.

So we do agree on one aspect of it??!!  



I got to get to class, I'll post more later.

I look forward to it!  

[Tibby]

They will throw out facts about Homeschoolers being better students.

So we do agree on one aspect of it??!!  

Yes, students with a teach who gives a care are sure to do well, and this is the case in home schooling, where the students personal help, and are taugh by and Educator who has something to gain if the Students do well.

As for those people, Well, you list has a few holes. An example being the fact many of the people listed are College educated. They didn't get ALL there Education from Homeschooling. Another problem is some of these people where not even homeschooled in anyway, Joan of Arc, for example. And most of the rest where only Homeschooled because there where not public schools to go to. Most of them where not given a chance to attend public school in the first place.

And no, I can’t seem to find any studies.

[ebia]

The difficulty in comparing homeschooling to conventional schooling, is that the populations are not the same.  

The kids who are homeschooled generally do well, but those same kids would probably do just as well at school - they have the parental attitudes to learning, etc, that they need.  Most of the kids who the education system fails for, are those with parents unwilling or unable to provide the support and culture of learning at home that the kids need.  Those parents would never consider homeschooling.  The best teachers in the world can't make up for inadequate parenting.

Since you can't sit down with 500 kids and randomly assign them between home & conventional schooling, you simply can't tell whether homeschooling is more effective or not.

"A study of adults who were home educated found that none were unemployed and none were on welfare"

I'd like to see the study this is clipped from - my initial reaction when I see "none" is to suspect either too small a study, or a highly biased sampling.  Or both.

[Psalm 119]

To Ebia, Tibby and other home school detractor's,

There is a vast array of differences between home school children and public, but I will list just a few.

1) The materials used in home schooling are far superior than public. Many home educator's include Bible classes along with a curriculum that incorporates Biblical principles.Most families I know that home educate include a phonics, instead of the miserable sight reading approach.

2) Many home schoolers teach the basics, such as the three R's, Instead of learning how to put on a condom, spend countless hours studying the Amazon Rain Forrest, or save the planet, etc.

3) Home school families actually spend more time going on field trips, and exploring their world, than their public school counterparts.

4) Most home school families have vision. Vision to raise up godly children, who will make a difference.

Of course there is always a family who will not discharge their duties properly. There is always the exception to the general rule.

But the proof is in the pudding. The stats don't lie!

Please take the time to read over this information.

http://www.hslda.org/research/faq.asp

Psalm 119

[Symphony]

Yeah, like in Public School, is okay to use God or Jesus Christ as an expletive.

But don't get caught saying you believe in Him.

But it's okay to curse Him.  Yeah, that's just fine.


     

[Tibby]

To Ebia, Tibby and other home school detractor's,

There is a vast array of differences between home school children and public, but I will list just a few.

Oh, defensive are we?

1) The materials used in home schooling are far superior than public. Many home educator's include Bible classes along with a curriculum that incorporates Biblical principles.Most families I know that home educate include a phonics, instead of the miserable sight reading approach.

Bible classes? yeah, because IT IS HOME. At home, the parents SHOULD have bible classes, regardless of where your child is educated

2) Many home schoolers teach the basics, such as the three R's, Instead of learning how to put on a condom, spend countless hours studying the Amazon Rain Forrest, or save the planet, etc.

I spend all my time in public and a little private schooling. Yet, I never leaved how to put a condom on there, and Nickelodeon taught me about Saving the planet, not school. You sure have a twisted view of Public Education.

3) Home school families actually spend more time going on field trips, and exploring their world, than their public school counterparts.

Again, these are things parents need to do regardless of where the children go to school

4) Most home school families have vision. Vision to raise up godly children, who will make a difference.

Again, parents need to do regardless of where the children go to school.

[Symphony]

Public Schools are just extensions of the socialist state.

They don't teach you how to be self reliant.

They teach you how to rely on them.

That's why they have "scholarships".


   
     

[ebia]

To Ebia, Tibby and other home school detractor's,

Hang on - I wasn't detracting from homeschooling - I just said its difficult if not impossible to show whether or not its better.

There is a vast array of differences between home school children and public, but I will list just a few.

1) The materials used in home schooling are far superior than public. Many home educator's include Bible classes along with a curriculum that incorporates Biblical principles.Most families I know that home educate include a phonics, instead of the miserable sight reading approach.

These may be specific where you are - good public schooling includes multiple approaches to reading, for instance.

As for bible classes, there's nothing to stop you adding these on at home if they aren't adequately provided by your school system.

2) Many home schoolers teach the basics, such as the three R's, Instead of learning how to put on a condom, spend countless hours studying the Amazon Rain Forrest, or save the planet, etc.

Kids need to learn the essential skills (like the "3 Rs"), and they also need to learn how to think, and how to learn for themselves.  A good schooling will provide both, whether it's public, private or home.  Missing either is selling the kids short.

3) Home school families actually spend more time going on field trips, and exploring their world, than their public school counterparts.

Probably true.

4) Most home school families have vision. Vision to raise up godly children, who will make a difference.

Also probably true, but this would still be true for those families whether they chose to homeschool or not.

[ebia]

Yeah, like in Public School, is okay to use God or Jesus Christ as an expletive.

But don't get caught saying you believe in Him.

But it's okay to curse Him.  Yeah, that's just fine.


     

This is a particular problem with your public school system.

Here, children are perfectly free to practice their faith at school, and religious education is offered where an outside body (church or whatever) wants to provide and pay for a suitable teacher.

[ebia]

But the proof is in the pudding. The stats don't lie!

No, but they can mislead.

The stats shown compare homeschooled kids to the national average.  I'd be horrified if homeschooling wasn't doing considerably better than the national average, because these are not average families.

A kid from a family that cares enough, is involved enough, and considers themselves qualified enough, to even consider homeschooling is likely to do very much better, whatever system is choosen.  The stats page makes no mention of this, let alone any attempt to address it.

[CleansedSpirit]

I went to a charter school for a year or so, and now I am homeschooled.

I can tell you that for me, I'd choose Home-schooling anyday, there is nothing you could EVER say to change my mind, and I plan on Home-schooling my own children.

I don't want some near stranger teaching my children that they are related to a monkey.

In fact, I just can't imagine sending my child off to someone I don't know very well to teach them. I want my children taught by ME, because I love them, and I want to nurture them.

I couldn't send my child, from an early age, to school every morning, to bond with a stranger, while I wonder why they are so unresponsive to me. Sending them to school to me, is like setting them in front of the world's sinful desires and saying "You shouldn't do these, but I'm going to set you in the middle of them."    

[sincereheart]

As for those people, Well, you list has a few holes. An example being the fact many of the people listed are College educated. They didn't get ALL there Education from Homeschooling. Another problem is some of these people where not even homeschooled in anyway, Joan of Arc, for example. And most of the rest where only Homeschooled because there where not public schools to go to. Most of them where not given a chance to attend public school in the first place.

A few holes in the list? Hmmmm.... The list is of famous people who were homeschooled. The 'hole' you mention is more of what I've been trying to get you to see. That is, that homeschoolers DO go on to be productive members of society.

You said:

Studies show they are even LESS adjusted when they leave home.

~AND~

Being a good Student and a good Citizen are not one and the same.

So I skipped the stats showing the better test scores, etc. I pointed out a few that show AFTER homeschooling - i.e. after they've left home! That was your point, wasn't it?

The kids who are homeschooled generally do well, but those same kids would probably do just as well at school - they have the parental attitudes to learning, etc, that they need.  Most of the kids who the education system fails for, are those with parents unwilling or unable to provide the support and culture of learning at home that the kids need.  Those parents would never consider homeschooling.  The best teachers in the world can't make up for inadequate parenting.

Actually, more and more 'special' students are being homeschooled. And they do better at home than in a classroom setting. That really should be obvious, since special needs children may not sit still in a desk, stand in line, etc. Depending on their exceptionality, most would do better at home. That would include ADD, ADHD, MMR, etc. (The ones that might not benefit from a home setting would be severe and profound, etc. But that would be a whole different story in that they may not be learning facts but the parents may simply need a reprieve.)

So no, they wouldn't do just as well in a conventional classroom setting.

Which educational systems are you referring to? Would that be here in the US or abroad?

What is also seemingly not being considered is the fact that no matter how good the teacher is, he/she can only be spread so far. It is simply not feasible for a teacher to impart educational knowledge whilst trying to meet any social, moral, etc. needs. And the sheer preponderance of time that our youth are spending in an institutionalized setting should show that those needs can not be met.

I'd like to see the study this is clipped from - my initial reaction when I see "none" is to suspect either too small a study, or a highly biased sampling.  Or both.

http://www.nheri.org/

They don't teach you how to be self reliant.
They teach you how to rely on them.

That is truer than many know (or will admit to).

The stats shown compare homeschooled kids to the national average.  I'd be horrified if homeschooling wasn't doing considerably better than the national average, because these are not average families.

I guess it would depend on what you mean by 'average'...  

Kids need to learn the essential skills (like the "3 Rs"), and they also need to learn how to think, and how to learn for themselves.  A good schooling will provide both, whether it's public, private or home.  Missing either is selling the kids short.

Actually, here in the US, students are required to memorize and regurgitate more than anything. Most will come into thinking on their own IF they attend a good college/university.
I agree that missing either is selling our youth short. Sadly, that's where our school systems are.

A kid from a family that cares enough, is involved enough, and considers themselves qualified enough, to even consider homeschooling is likely to do very much better, whatever system is choosen.  The stats page makes no mention of this, let alone any attempt to address it.

That would be kind of a Catch-22. The fact that they are sampling those who choose to educate their own children seems to imply that the parents DO care and are involved, etc. But it doesn't mean that the kids would do just as well in any system.

Tibby, You said:
I spend all my time in public and a little private schooling.
And I just want you to know that I REALLY do believe you on this statement!   Really!