Disciple or believer?

[Sower]

"Am I  a "disciple of Christ' or am I  a 'believer' only?"

That's a question each one of us needs to ask ourselves and answer honsestly.  Because all disciples are believers, but all believers are not necessarily disciples.  

"Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world" (2 Tim. 4:10) could very well apply to many of us. Demas was a believer and a disciple until the attractions of the world overcame his love for Christ. The message to the church at Epehesus in the book of Revelation is one for each one of us: "Nevertheless, I have somewhat against thee, BECAUSE THOU HAST LEFT THY FIRST LOVE" (Rev.2:4).

The word disciple is the translation of the Greek mathetes which is literally a learner, but actually means a follower of the teachings of his teacher, and even more, an imitator of his teacher. We are to be both followers of Christ's teachings and imitators of Jesus of Nazareth. We are to "FOLLOW IN  HIS STEPS" (1 Pet.2:21).

The Lord never spoke of "believers" or "Christians".  That was assumed.  He always spoke of "disciples" and He always spoke of the high cost of being disciples. A disciple of the Lord "hates" everything in comparison to his love for Christ.  We are to "hate" father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, and the world, in order to truly love the Lord (Lk 14:26).

What is this "hating" since the express commanment of the Lord is to love others as He has loved us? This "hating" is fundamentally a refusal to allow human bonds of affection to interfere with our obedience, devotion and service to the Lord. It might mean the inability to provide our families with all that they wish to have because we spend our time doing the Lord's work with little or no compensation and thus have little of this world's goods.  

It could mean any other sacrifice that we make in order to follow the Lord and the leading of His Holy Spirit: "And whosoever doth not bear his CROSS, and come after me, cannot be my disciple" (Lk.14:27).  This is not a wooden cross, neither is it merely putting up with those who are thorns in our side.  

This "cross" is "the sufferings of Christ" to which all disciples are appointed -- tribulation, distress, persecution, famine, nakedness, peril, sword (Rom.8:35).  Paul took up his cross daily, just as the Lord Jesus Christ took up His cross DAILY.  The Lord suffered every day that He lived on this earth, and then He was subjected to the greatest suffering ever suffered -- the death of the cross.  This was not merely a physical suffering [which in itself was most excruciating], but it was the agony of His soul and spirit as He bore the wrath of God for all our iniquities (see Isa. 53:1-12).

So the Lord says "Follow me" and then puts a path of suffering before us. Are we disciples enough to walk that lonely road?

[michael_legna]

"Am I  a "disciple of Christ' or am I  a 'believer' only?"

That's a question each one of us needs to ask ourselves and answer honsestly.  Because all disciples are believers, but all believers are not necessarily disciples.  

"Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world" (2 Tim. 4:10) could very well apply to many of us. Demas was a believer and a disciple until the attractions of the world overcame his love for Christ. The message to the church at Epehesus in the book of Revelation is one for each one of us: "Nevertheless, I have somewhat against thee, BECAUSE THOU HAST LEFT THY FIRST LOVE" (Rev.2:4).

The word disciple is the translation of the Greek mathetes which is literally a learner, but actually means a follower of the teachings of his teacher, and even more, an imitator of his teacher. We are to be both followers of Christ's teachings and imitators of Jesus of Nazareth. We are to "FOLLOW IN  HIS STEPS" (1 Pet.2:21).

The Lord never spoke of "believers" or "Christians".  That was assumed.  He always spoke of "disciples" and He always spoke of the high cost of being disciples. A disciple of the Lord "hates" everything in comparison to his love for Christ.  We are to "hate" father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, and the world, in order to truly love the Lord (Lk 14:26).

What is this "hating" since the express commanment of the Lord is to love others as He has loved us? This "hating" is fundamentally a refusal to allow human bonds of affection to interfere with our obedience, devotion and service to the Lord. It might mean the inability to provide our families with all that they wish to have because we spend our time doing the Lord's work with little or no compensation and thus have little of this world's goods.  

It could mean any other sacrifice that we make in order to follow the Lord and the leading of His Holy Spirit: "And whosoever doth not bear his CROSS, and come after me, cannot be my disciple" (Lk.14:27).  This is not a wooden cross, neither is it merely putting up with those who are thorns in our side.  

This "cross" is "the sufferings of Christ" to which all disciples are appointed -- tribulation, distress, persecution, famine, nakedness, peril, sword (Rom.8:35).  Paul took up his cross daily, just as the Lord Jesus Christ took up His cross DAILY.  The Lord suffered every day that He lived on this earth, and then He was subjected to the greatest suffering ever suffered -- the death of the cross.  This was not merely a physical suffering [which in itself was most excruciating], but it was the agony of His soul and spirit as He bore the wrath of God for all our iniquities (see Isa. 53:1-12).

So the Lord says "Follow me" and then puts a path of suffering before us. Are we disciples enough to walk that lonely road?

Great post!

[Ambassador4Christ]

I am just a B-E-L-I-E-V-E-R

[Sower]

Great post!

Thanks Michael.  Since we are in agrement here, we should also be in a agreement on the Seven Sacraments strictly on the authority of God's Word.

[Sower]

I am just a B-E-L-I-E-V-E-R

Does that mean you have no wish to be a disciple of Christ?
The commandment in Matthew 28:19 is to make disciples -- "disciple all nations"... "teaching them to observe ALL THINGS whatsoever I have commanded you". The "all things" includes the commandments to be a disciple, not merely a believer.

[michael_legna]

I am just a B-E-L-I-E-V-E-R

Your answer reminded me of the Monkees so I came up with this for you.

I’m A Believer (Calvinist Lyrics)

I thought grace was only true in fairy tales
Meant for someone else but not for me  (Limited Atonement)
But TULIP was out to get me
That's the way it seemed
Disappointment haunted all my dreams  (Total Depravity)

Then I saw His grace (Unconditional Election)
Now I'm a believer
Not a trace of doubt in my mind
I'm in love (agape)
I'm a believer
I couldn’t leave Him if I tried (Irresistible Grace)

I thought love was more or less a given thing  
Seems the more I gave the more I got (Perseverance of the Saints)
What's the use in trying  (no free will)
It’s a race that can’t be run
I needed saving but its already done

Then I saw His grace
Now I'm a believer
Not a trace of doubt in my mind
I'm in love
I'm a believer
I couldn't leave Him if I tried

[michael_legna]

Great post!

Thanks Michael.  Since we are in agrement here, we should also be in a agreement on the Seven Sacraments strictly on the authority of God's Word.

It is possible to agree on some issues but not on others.  For instance I do believe in the seven sacraments strictly on the authority of God's Word.  I just recognize the Tradition and Magisterium of the Church as other sources of God's Word, which you do not.  

Still there is plenty of evidence for the seven sacraments in the Scriptures alone, we just haven't gotten to the point of discussing that evidence in your other thread.  We are still at the point if me correcting your misunderstanding of the Catholic Church's teachings on the seven sacraments.

[The Crusader]

I am just a B-E-L-I-E-V-E-R

Does that mean you have no wish to be a disciple of Christ?
The commandment in Matthew 28:19 is to make disciples -- "disciple all nations"... "teaching them to observe ALL THINGS whatsoever I have commanded you". The "all things" includes the commandments to be a disciple, not merely a believer.

As my Apostle wrote, I know longer follow Christ in the flesh. Christ gave us our new orders from heaven.

Your friend and brother

The Crusader

<))><

[The Crusader]

I am just a B-E-L-I-E-V-E-R

Your answer reminded me of the Monkees so I came up with this for you.

I’m A Believer (Calvinist Lyrics)

I thought grace was only true in fairy tales
Meant for someone else but not for me  (Limited Atonement)
But TULIP was out to get me
That's the way it seemed
Disappointment haunted all my dreams  (Total Depravity)

Then I saw His grace (Unconditional Election)
Now I'm a believer
Not a trace of doubt in my mind
I'm in love (agape)
I'm a believer
I couldn’t leave Him if I tried (Irresistible Grace)

I thought love was more or less a given thing  
Seems the more I gave the more I got (Perseverance of the Saints)
What's the use in trying  (no free will)
It’s a race that can’t be run
I needed saving but its already done

Then I saw His grace
Now I'm a believer
Not a trace of doubt in my mind
I'm in love
I'm a believer
I couldn't leave Him if I tried

I am NOT a Calvinist, no TULIP's for me.

[Fewarechosen7F]

This "cross" is "the sufferings of Christ" to which all disciples are appointed -- tribulation, distress, persecution, famine, nakedness, peril, sword (Rom.8:35).  Paul took up his cross daily, just as the Lord Jesus Christ took up His cross DAILY.  The Lord suffered every day that He lived on this earth, and then He was subjected to the greatest suffering ever suffered -- the death of the cross.  This was not merely a physical suffering [which in itself was most excruciating], but it was the agony of His soul and spirit as He bore the wrath of God for all our iniquities (see Isa. 53:1-12).

So the Lord says "Follow me" and then puts a path of suffering before us. Are we disciples enough to walk that lonely road?

Hello Sower,
God anointed Yeshua in God's word to the point that Yeshua embodied God's word. That anointing is called Christ, God's anointed. If we, as disciples of Yeshua, allow the word of Yeshua to so fill us up that we embody the word of Yeshua, that anointing is also called Christ. It is Christ in us.

In the eyes of the world outside of discipleship, Christ, the anointing, IS the cross they would attempt to crucify us on. But what they mean for evil, God means for good.

If you truly are a disciple yourself, then you understand what I am speaking of, and know how deeply the Holy Spirit is grieved by the lack of knowledge that permeates the Body of Christ as religion knows her.  

[JudgeNot]

Disciple or believer?

YES

[Palmoni]

  since 1980 when i became a Believer ... i have never been sorry! I have met a few sorry christians but never met a christian who was sorry! I would consider myself to be classed as a "professional student" of Christ Jesus until it's time for the "catching up"/Resurrection.