The Power of Satan

[smartinez1984]

Our Sunday School lesson this past Sunday centered around Corinthians and the fact that we do not battle against flesh but instead are fighting a spiritual war. The teacher mentioned more than a few times that Satan caused him to do certain things during his youth, that Satan was in control of him (referencing slaves of the devil), etc. He also mentioned that Abel's murder at the hands of Cain was the result of Satan driving Cain to do it. I thought that was interesting.

So, being the ever questioning fella, I asked the question:

What can Satan do and what can he not do?

I had general questions like:

As a Christian, can Satan (or his demons) directly influence my thoughts?

Can he/they manipulate my dreams or cause them?

Can a Christian be possessed?

Etc., etc.

I've done a quick "google" search but work impedes me from really digging into it and I've not found anything really substantial. If someone can point me to some good reference material (preferrably online), that would be fantastic!

God Bless,

-Samson

[JudgeNot]

Samson,
I think you bring up a good subject.  We as Christians must be ever vigilant of Satan and his angels – they are a tricky bunch.  Satan’s greatest tool is that of ‘unbelief’.  The devil will take advantage of those who do not believe in him.  It is very important to be aware that Satan is always whispering in our ears – even as Christians – trying to draw us off of and keep us off of the “narrow path of righteousness”.  Then, when we slip just a little, Satan is “in God’s face” saying “see there – those people you call saints are such a sorry lot – they don’t love you – they belong to me!  Forget them – give them all to me!”  
God is not fooled, however, and through the Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, as Christians we should not be afraid of Satan.  

I always use an ounce of prevention in my daily prayers:  “By the Blood of Jesus Christ I command you to get thee behind me Satan!”  Yes!  You as a Christian have control over Satan and can order him away.  Praise the Lord!

[Petro]

Our Sunday School lesson this past Sunday centered around Corinthians and the fact that we do not battle against flesh but instead are fighting a spiritual war. The teacher mentioned more than a few times that Satan caused him to do certain things during his youth, that Satan was in control of him (referencing slaves of the devil), etc. He also mentioned that Abel's murder at the hands of Cain was the result of Satan driving Cain to do it. I thought that was interesting.

So, being the ever questioning fella, I asked the question:

What can Satan do and what can he not do?

I had general questions like:

As a Christian, can Satan (or his demons) directly influence my thoughts?

Samson,

This is a good question..

Before we can even begin to answer such a question we should examine scripture, to see, who it is Satan can influence.

We know that he influenced Eve at  the garden, by deceiving her, note;

1 Tim 2
13  For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14  And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

How did Satan do it, by question the truth of the word of God, and causing her to doubt what God has said.

Can he influenced or cause Christians to doubt Gods word today?? .................the answer to this question is found in scripture.

Heb 12, ...................says;
1  Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

What sin do you suppose this is??

Whenever a Christians question or doubtsa Gods word or what He has caused to be written, Christians commit this sin??  

What is that sin??

Can he/they manipulate my dreams or cause them?

I don't know anything about dreams, but scripture does speak of God, granting repentance to those who oppose themselves (we have a few on this forum, which do this regularly),  so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, who having been taken captive by him to do his will .

Note these verses;

2 Tim 2:24-26
19  Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20  But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21  If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22  Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23  But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24  And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25  In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26  And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

This passage in its context, speaks to Christians; vs 21 "If a man therefore purge himself....of the things spoken of at vs 20 ,....he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Verse 22 exhorts the Christian to ........flee youthful lusts....follow righteousnes, faith charity, peace, with other Christians out of a pure heart

Avoid foolish and unlearned questions, posed by any, Christians and  those who are  NOT christians[/b],

Why??...............because they gender strife..

For what purpose??.......For the purpose of instructing those that oppose themselves;

Here are examples;

1. Those Who Hold To Theories Which Contradict Scripture Oppose Themselves.
2. Those Who Hold To Religious Doctrines Which Are Self-Contradictory Oppose Themselves.
3. Those Who Say One Thing And Do Something Else Oppose Themselves.
4. Those Who "Say And Do Not" Oppose Themselves
5. Those Who Live Sinfully When They Know Better Oppose Themselves.
6. Those Who Let Worldliness Invade Their Lives Oppose Themselves.

What is the reason for instructing these??

That, vs 25:  "God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;"

And the end result is that these;

At Vs 26  .....that they, may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Having said this let me explain, before the objections to what I have written begin...

If Christians believe we are in a spiritual war, of which the scripture is clear to teach, then just as soldiers from opposing armies, capture the enemy,  Christians can be taken captive by Satan, and since this war is for the souls of men, the bodies are the ones that are which are taken captive and destroyed, yet the spirit is preserved and saved.

Non christians, are already captive, and in bondage to Satan the Spirit that now works in the children of disobedience (Eph 2:2-3)

Christians, can be deceived and if possible seduced(Mat 13:22) by false christs and prophets, Jesus was very careful to warn His disciples

"Take heed that no man deceive you."

Who are these men, but, false prophets and false christs, who are spoken of at 2 Cor 11:13-15.


You probably want more scripture now, for what I said, here it is;

In the case of the example I am giving you, a christian who was practicing and living in sin, is literally turned over to the enemy, for the destruction of his flesh by the Apostle Paul, note;

1 Cor 5
1  It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2  And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3  For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4  In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5  To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

This man, in the passage referred to by Paul, later repented and was restored to the body, we read this in 2 Cor,  no doubt God who searches hearts, found him repentant and granted to him, the ability to recover himself from the snare of the Devil. (By the way this is what happens to all those who are in bonfage to Satan).

Another one is found in ;

Acts  5
1  But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2  And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it, at the apostles' feet.
3  But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4  Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5  And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6  And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
7  And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
8  And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
9  Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
10  Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

Note the words at verse 3; why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost

I cannot say specifically whether, Satan entered into their hearts to cause them to lie as he did to Judas (Lk 22:3, We must be reminded that Judas, was in unbelief, he was not saved, as Christians are today.) But, clearly he deceived them, and influenced them, causing them to lie to God, and for this, both Ananias and Sapphira died.

Can a Christian be possessed?

As you can see, there are scriptures which do seem to pruport that Christians can be influenced enough to be taken captive by him (Satan),

Possessed, that is the 64,000,000 dollar question.  

My own thoughts are NO  spiritually speaking, but if he cause them to sin, and have their bodies  put to death, clearly they have been snared and  taken captive by  him.

Just as Satan, caused Moses to sin, and die, never to enter the promised land, I suspect Sapphira and Ananias's bodies were disputed over by Satan and the Angel of the Lord, as Joshua's.

Cont'd..........................

[Petro]

It is important to point out the equipment with which God has equipped His Children;

Eph 6
10  Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13  Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15  And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16  Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18  Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

A good soldier, who knows and excercises and maintains the weapons of war given to him, will be able to fight the good fight, even though he perish, but clearly, those who are on guard and live in the Lord have power to resist Satan and his host, and cause them to flee from him (the Christian), and the evil one touches them not.

Blessings,
Petro

[Petro]

I culled this portion I am quoting, from an article years ago, i have no idea who wrote it, but perhaps this will be helpfull to you.. It relates to 2 Tim 2:24-26..

Many believe they have free will to produce repentance at will, unfortunately this is not taught in scripture, the teaching is error.


"A repentant heart is something that you can't just conjure up with sheer will power. Will power comes from the mind. True repentance comes from the heart. It is placed in the heart by God Himself. II Timothy 2:25-26 says, "...in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will." Notice again His reason for granting repentance. "...that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will."

The part that those who teach "free will" do not understand  that God will grant us a repentant heart if we ask Him.

We often (or usually) think that it is up to us to develop a repentant heart, then do the repenting, then come to the Lord to ask for forgiveness.  ALL dead men can do is trust and obey.....

But this passage indicates that such is not always the case. Notice the progression of events in the verses:"


Consider these other passage of scripture;

Rom 9
6  Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7  Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9  For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10  And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11  (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12  It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13  As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14  What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15  For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16  So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.
17  For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18  Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19  Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22  What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23  And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


Petro

[ravenloche]

Posted by: smartinez1984  Posted on: January 19, 2004, 12:48:09 PM  
Our Sunday School lesson this past Sunday centered around Corinthians and the fact that we do not battle against flesh but instead are fighting a spiritual war. The teacher mentioned more than a few times that Satan caused him to do certain things during his youth, that Satan was in control of him (referencing slaves of the devil), etc. He also mentioned that Abel's murder at the hands of Cain was the result of Satan driving Cain to do it. I thought that was interesting.

So, being the ever questioning fella, I asked the question:

What can Satan do and what can he not do?

I had general questions like:

As a Christian, can Satan (or his demons) directly influence my thoughts?

Can he/they manipulate my dreams or cause them?

Can a Christian be possessed?

Etc., etc.

I've done a quick "google" search but work impedes me from really digging into it and I've not found anything really substantial. If someone can point me to some good reference material (preferrably online), that would be fantastic!

God Bless,

-Samson  
 
 
 
 
1John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

This is the only answer that I will present from the scriptures.
Satan has no more power of any kind upon us, except that
which we allow him to have.

He goes about the scriptures tell us as a roaring lion, seeking
whom he may devour.  An interesting point of fact--only those
lions who are too old to hunt, too weak, or too slow, or too
injured are the ones who roar! Those who can hunt circle the
prey, and then the lions roar to frighten the prey into running.
We do not need to run when satan roars, he has no power.

Jesus defeated him totally at calvary, "it is finished"
This is the truth of the word of God; now all we have to do is
step into the truth of that word!

respectfully yours in Yeshua:
 :)ravenloche

[smartinez1984]

So I try to corrolate what happened to Job, Judas, and Ananias & Saphira. It seems that in every occasion in which Satan wreaked his havoc upon Job he had to first consult with God before doing so.

Why would it be any different with any other individual? I believe, first of all, that nothing occurs on this earth, universe, or anywhere in time and space without the stamp of approval from God.

Which brings to question the events that took place with Judas, Ananias, and Saphira. I understand the bible says that Satan put the desire to lie in the hearts of Ananias & Saphira. What exactly does that mean?

An earlier quote in this thread states ""A repentant heart is something that you can't just conjure up with sheer will power. Will power comes from the mind. True repentance comes from the heart. It is placed in the heart by God Himself. "

What is the difference between the heart and the mind in the quote above? We cannot be talking of the piece of muscle that beats in our chest, can we?

If Satan is able to manipulate the minds of people in order to do his will (even if it means only non-christians), then why only do it to the minds of some?

Why not put murder in the heart of every individual out there as opposed to only a few?

Maybe it all goes back to Job. Maybe he wants to but God is saying "No". Ok, not maybe, but being the evil one that he is, I'm sure he WANTS to destroy every being in site before they have an opportunity to come to Christ.

So that must mean that God allows some to be possessed, some to be coerced to murder, others to steal, others to injure, others to become politicians (just a joke...)...etc.

Which reminds me, if Satan had no fear of confronting Jesus after He had fasted in the dessert, why should he have fear of confronting any of us? He did not manipulate the thoughts of Jesus. It seems that all the mind games were being played from outside but never did he get in and manipulate the mind itself.

Is it the same with us? We can be tempted from without but cannot be manipulated from within? But then what of Ananias & Saphira, or Judas?

Sigh...

God Bless,

-Samson

[2nd Timothy]

Very good topic.

I think Petro hit on a key verse in one of his posts.  It is very much spiritual warefar we are engaged in.  Jesus said the gates of hell shall not prevail against his church.  Note, that gates are not used to attack, but to defend.  We are christian soldiers under Gods command, and we are leading an attack into enemy territory...spiritual territory!

I like the verse Petro quoted...

Eph 6:12  For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the world's rulers, of the darkness of this age, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

These are the enemy troops who defend against Gods army.

Eph 6:13  Therefore take to yourselves the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14  Therefore stand, having your loins girded about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness

Truth and righteousness.  Only aquired through a life in christ.

Eph 6:15  and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace.

The gospel of peace prepares us and will guide our steps and keep us on the course.

Eph 6:16  Above all, take the shield of faith, with which you shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

The shield of faith.  A soldier without it, will not be able to block the darts or arrows shot at him.  

Eph 6:17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God,

The real helmet protects a soldiers most vital part.  The head.  A head shot would be fatal without it.  Salvation is our very life.  All of these list defensive protection.  Now, the sword our weapon in which to attack the enemy.   Gods sword is sharper than any two edged sword, and knowing it well can make us leathal against the enemy.

Eph 6:18  praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching to this very thing with all perseverance and supplication for all saints.

Praying ALWAYS!  This is our life line with the commander and chief.  The spirit can guide us in prayer in time of need, and even when we don't know whats being ploted against us.  We also need to look out for our brothers, and come to their aid.


This fully armored soldier will not be stopped by the enemy.  He is prepared with all the necessary pieces of equipment to do battle.  Leaving any piece of armor or weapon behind, will hinder his success.  Satan knowing he has already been defeated by Jesus as ravenloche says, will search for weakness in our armour.  If he finds any area lacking, he can and will attack that area.  God has provided all the pieces of equipment necessary for us to win.  Its up to us to utilize all of Gods armour, and march on!  The gates of hell cannot stand against this well prepared church!

Grace and Peace!

[Petro]

So I try to corrolate what happened to Job, Judas, and Ananias & Saphira. It seems that in every occasion in which Satan wreaked his havoc upon Job he had to first consult with God before doing so.

Why would it be any different with any other individual? I believe, first of all, that nothing occurs on this earth, universe, or anywhere in time and space without the stamp of approval from God.

Which brings to question the events that took place with Judas, Ananias, and Saphira. I understand the bible says that Satan put the desire to lie in the hearts of Ananias & Saphira. What exactly does that mean?

I know that you know these verses, but I will share them with you by way of recollection;
James 1
12  Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tested, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
13  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14  But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16  Do not err, my beloved brethren.
1Cor 10
12  Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
13  There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

From the verses above it is clear, that the man tested by God, is one whom He allows satan to tempt with evil. In the case of Judas, he failed then test and perished, depending on whether you believe Aninias and Sapphira were believers sealed by the Holy Spirit will determine how you view whether they died physically but there souls were saved, or whether they died both physically and spiritually, the scriptures sare clear they were believers, and because of they were numbered with those who, laid their possessions at the Apostles feet.  

An earlier quote in this thread states ""A repentant heart is something that you can't just conjure up with sheer will power. Will power comes from the mind. True repentance comes from the heart. It is placed in the heart by God Himself. "

What is the difference between the heart and the mind in the quote above? We cannot be talking of the piece of muscle that beats in our chest, can we?

The heart is the seat of the emotions of men, the will is not a product of the mind, but of the heart, this is why men cannot understand truth, lets look at 2 Tim 2:25-26, again;

 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;  
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

How is it that all of the apostles willingly gave their lives for what they belived, accepting death rather than denying the truth.
It is because God gave them a new heart ( He circumcised their hearts), and put a new Spirit within them, just as He pas promised.

Jer 31
26  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27  And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Rom 2
28  For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

If Satan is able to manipulate the minds of people in order to do his will (even if it means only non-christians), then why only do it to the minds of some?

You try to rationalize it, like the natural man does, but notice that they are all in unbelief, whether a murderer, or a thief, or an idolater, and unless Godf works in their heart they shall all perish in unbelief, they will not be judged for what they were, but for there works. (Rev 20:12)

Why not put murder in the heart of every individual out there as opposed to only a few?

Who can answer this question?  Every unsaved person is capable of murder, I dare say neven the saved, could murder.

Maybe it all goes back to Job. Maybe he wants to but God is saying "No". Ok, not maybe, but being the evil one that he is, I'm sure he WANTS to destroy every being in site before they have an opportunity to come to Christ.

So that must mean that God allows some to be possessed, some to be coerced to murder, others to steal, others to injure, others to become politicians (just a joke...)...etc.

Which reminds me, if Satan had no fear of confronting Jesus after He had fasted in the dessert, why should he have fear of confronting any of us? He did not manipulate the thoughts of Jesus. It seems that all the mind games were being played from outside but never did he get in and manipulate the mind itself.

Jesus answered every temptation of the Devil, with the words with;
"It is written....", we need to know the sciptures to answer in the same way, when tempted.

Is it the same with us? We can be tempted from without but cannot be manipulated from within? But then what of Ananias & Saphira, or Judas?

Sigh...

God Bless,

-Samson

The unsaved belong to the evil one, those whom God has given to Jesus belong to Him, and are kept by the hand of God, Jesus said;

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I and my Father are one. (Jhn 10:27-30)


Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.  (Jhn 10:1-5)

We know the evil one causes the death and suffering of the Saints of God, and it is because God tests them who are tempted by Satan, pure simple, that is the way it is, because God ordained it, and He has chosen this is the way it is, to be.

Blessings,

Petro

[Allinall]

Well put Tim!  God is good and His defense even better Brother.  As for the question posted, I think it is best for us to remember what James said:

Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.  Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers.

James 1:13-16

We tend to lose focus in this matter many times.  God doesn't lure us to sin but Satan does.  Here's the problem.  The Devil didn't make us do it!!  According to James, we sin when we are drawn away by our lusts.  Satan doesn't cause us to sin, he simply makes the objects of our lusting more readily available.  The choice is always ours.  

[2nd Timothy]

We tend to lose focus in this matter many times.  God doesn't lure us to sin but Satan does.  Here's the problem.  The Devil didn't make us do it!!  According to James, we sin when we are drawn away by our lusts.  Satan doesn't cause us to sin, he simply makes the objects of our lusting more readily available.  The choice is always ours.  

Good stuff guys!  I like this thread.   When Satan tempted Jesus, he apealed to his desires just as you say here Allinall.  He also waited till Jesus was hungry and at a time of weakness.  Apealing to his hunger he asked Jesus to make the stones into bread...and so on.

Satan knows our desires and weaknesses and will try to use these things against us.   Its up to us to resist him.  

Jam 4:7  Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

And look for the escape we are promised.

1Co 10:13  There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

What a blessed promise!  He will not suffer us to be tempted above what we are able to bare, but rather makes a way for us to escape it.   I'm not sure how others feel about this, but I think it is possible to put more on ourselves (or add to temptation) than we are able to bear.   If we miss the exit sign, or the escape promised in Cor., we will soon reach a breaking point and give into the temptation.

Any thoughts on this?

Grace and Peace!

[smartinez1984]

I agree, interesting stuff!

From the last few replies to this thread it appears that the general consensus is that Satan cannot ENTER the mind to manipulate it but that all of his work occurs from the outside, i.e. temptations, coersions, etc. This would mean that we have the power through Jesus Christ to overcome. I would imagine the same does not apply to those who are not saved, true?

What then of the previous verses relevant to Judas, etc.? It seems to imply/state that Satan took control somehow. Yet, one has to believe that there was always the opportunity for Judas to step back and say "No, I will NOT betray the Master!".

But is that scripture stating somehow that Judas was possessed? If so, then Judas no longer had control over his mind and would have required someone with faith and power to cast Satan out, no?

Is it correct to state that Satan always has the power (given by God) to tempt and coerse from OUTSIDE the body?

Is it correct to state that Satan cannot TOUCH the body unless given explicit permission by God? In other words, he doesn't have free reign to touch us unlike he has free reign to tempt us. Maybe?

Ok, gotta get back to work for now. Thanks for all the replies!

God Bless,

-Samson

[2nd Timothy]

But is that scripture stating somehow that Judas was possessed? If so, then Judas no longer had control over his mind and would have required someone with faith and power to cast Satan out, no?

Interesting question.  The only thing that comes to mind is the following verse.

Joh 6:70  Jesus answered them, Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? And one of you is a devil?
Joh 6:71  But he spoke of Judas Iscariot,[.....]

Grace and Peace!

[Petro]

I agree, interesting stuff!

From the last few replies to this thread it appears that the general consensus is that Satan cannot ENTER the mind to manipulate it but that all of his work occurs from the outside, i.e. temptations, coersions, etc. This would mean that we have the power through Jesus Christ to overcome. I would imagine the same does not apply to those who are not saved, true?

What then of the previous verses relevant to Judas, etc.? It seems to imply/state that Satan took control somehow. Yet, one has to believe that there was always the opportunity for Judas to step back and say "No, I will NOT betray the Master!".

But is that scripture stating somehow that Judas was possessed? If so, then Judas no longer had control over his mind and would have required someone with faith and power to cast Satan out, no?

Samson,

I see you still have not grasped this; let me give it to you plainly;

Lk 22
3  Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Judas was a devil, remember?? mHe never believed Jesus...he perished in UNBELIEF.  No purgatory for him...

Jhn 6
70  Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Is it correct to state that Satan always has the power (given by God) to tempt and coerse from OUTSIDE the body?

Samson,

Everyone who is outside of the FAITH belongs to Satan, because they are dead in tresspass and sin, note the language that Jesus uses of those that do not believe  Him, begining with those who did those that did;

Jhn 6
20  These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
21  Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22  Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23  And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25  Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27  They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
28  Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
30  As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31  Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Notice verse 30;  Jesus spoke to all of these, who were unbelievers, concerning His Father, and many believed as He spoke these words,

but..........................;those who did not believe answered him, thus;

33  ..........................We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34  Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39  They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42  Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47  He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


 
Everyone that does not belong to  Jesus belongs to the Devil, and the Devil, Satan, the Evil One does as he please with his own, because the scriptures teaches plainly that they are in bondage to sin; Jesus promises to set free those who come to Him trusting His words....

Can you see it now??

Is it correct to state that Satan cannot TOUCH the body unless given explicit permission by God? In other words, he doesn't have free reign to touch us unlike he has free reign to tempt us. Maybe?

Ok, gotta get back to work for now. Thanks for all the replies!

God Bless,

-Samson

The Apostle made it clear who the body of those who belong to Jesus belongs to, here let me give the scripture;

1 Cor 6
19  What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20  For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

How about this one;

Rom 8
12  Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13  if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.


God will never give a Christians body up to the Devil, because He has promised to raise it in glory this does not mean that this body will not see physical death, however a child of God who habitually sins, will pay the price for his sin and it usually is thru affliction of the body, , simply stated sin is the reason why this body must die, the body that lives unto the flesh will die, but the spirit will be saved, the body that mortifies the deeds of the body shall live until the time appointed by the Lord, since He has "appointed the bounds and the times of our habittation on this earth." Acts 17:26.

Nobody will leave this earth alive.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Cor 15:53-57)


The flesh profiteth nothing, it is the spirit that giveth life



Blessings,

Petro

[smartinez1984]

Petro,

Many thanks for all the info!

The one remaining that I have on this is related to your message

"Everyone that does not belong to  Jesus belongs to the Devil, and the Devil, Satan, the Evil One does as he please with his own, because the scriptures teaches plainly that they are in bondage to sin"

If this is the case, when or how does an individual that belongs to Satan get to make a conscious effort to call out to Jesus for rescue? That would have to mean that:

1. Satan does NOT have complete control but that God has complete control and that Satan only THINKS he has complete control.

2. Satan DOES have complete control and a lost individual has no chance until God decides it's time to draw him to Christ, in which case Satan's hold is temporarily broken until the individuals decides to heed the call of God to accept Jesus, or not.

If "1" is true, then an individual who has yet to accept Christ has no recourse, no power, no ability to choose... no free-will?

But wait, if number "2" is true then... no free will either?

So, who has control, Satan or God? How much control over his decisions does an individual have?

Thanks again!

God Bless,

-Samson