Does God give repentance.......or does man produce ?

[Petro]

God who knows the heart, hated Esau and loved Jacob, before they both were born, or had even done any good or evil. (Rom 9:11-13)

He caused this to be written in His Book, concerning Esau;

Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears. (Heb 12:16-17)

Clearly Esau, sought repentance, yet found no place for it, though he sought it out carefully with tears.

Tears are not what mark a repent man, today we see, criminals cry, when in front of the cameras in the court room, and yet will not confess and acknowledge the truth of their crime.

Unless God grants repentance, no one can truly repent, listen to this verse;

2 Tim 2
19  Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20  But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21  If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22  Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23  But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24  And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25  In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26  And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

What truth??


Petro

[aw]

Hello Petro,

I am one of those who believes that repentance is included in the "believing" with the heart for salvation. If defined as a "change of mind" then it would be a necessary component of heart belief. It then has to be a work of God.

It is the goodness of God that draws men to repentance.

aw

[Petro]

Amen  AW,

Rom 2
4  Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5  But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6  Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7  To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

The rapture is not in view in the above verse, but the day of wrath which believers escape sure is..it is found in the ;

 righteous judgment of God;

And our faith is in that He the judge of all the earth, will do right.


Praise the Lord....

Petro

[Allinall]

Repentance is of the Lord, yet God commands us to repent.  How do we reconcile this?  The act is God's, and the obedience is ours.  When He brings us repentance, He expects us to repent.  The work is His, the obedience is ours.  

[Petro]

Repentance is of the Lord, yet God commands us to repent.  How do we reconcile this?  The act is God's, and the obedience is ours.  When He brings us repentance, He expects us to repent.  The work is His, the obedience is ours.  

allinall,

Amen, man can obey, or disobey.


What is it he obeys, if he obeys??

Petro

[Allinall]

In effect, I see it as two-fold:

1.  He repents as told.
2.  He believes as is told.

By repenting I understand that any such repentance is God-wrought.  He commands us to concede to the repentance He gives.

By believing, I understand that any such repentance from God is accepted and obeyed by the believer only if the believer believes God.  Not believing in God, but believing God.  

[Petro]

In effect, I see it as two-fold:

1.  He repents as told.
2.  He believes as is told.

By repenting I understand that any such repentance is God-wrought.  He commands us to concede to the repentance He gives.

By believing, I understand that any such repentance from God is accepted and obeyed by the believer only if the believer believes God.  Not believing in God, but believing God.  

Amen,

Belief is preceded by obedience, we read in Heb 11:8;

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

This clearly was believing God at his word, it was years later, that ;

And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. (Gen 15:6)

What began as "trust" a form of belief without commitment, turned into belief with commitment, after God spoke to Him concerning the seed which would come "forth from his own bowels, which would be his heir, which would be numbered as the stars of heaven" (Gen 15: 4-5)

So, as you say, one must believe "the Word of GOD"


Blessings,

Petro
was written about Abram

[ELI]

PETRO

YOU KNOW JUST ENOUGH TO BE A DANGER TO OTHERS -- INCLUDING YOURSELF

YOUR FOOT SHALL SLIDE IN DUE TIME

[Petro]

eli,

Hebrews 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

"Fornicator" is "pornos", which means a male prostitute.

You see,
Esau sold the birthright of his inheritance -- to which he was entitled to, seeing that he was the first born.

The promises God gave to Abraham and confirmed in Isaac belonged to Esau... else he could not have sold it to Jacob, could he?

The lamentable part is that one cannot have much regard for his heritage nor the promises of his inheritance if he is so willing to prostitute himself and "sell out" both himself and his people for a mere bowl of red pottage to feed the temporal flesh.

Genesis 25:34 reads-- "Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentiles; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus Esau despised [disesteemed] his birthright."  

The reason that Paul brings up Esau's prostitution of birthright is that many of our brothers and sisters will also "sell out" their inheritance, their birthright promises in Jesus Christ, to the false messiah when he comes to earth. read Rev. 12:7-9.

You see, they have so-little regard for their Father's Word  

How is it that you can see, this in Esua, when you seem to not be able to see that Judas, prostituted himself, by betraying Jesus??

He was chosen by Jesus, for a specific purpose, and that is that the Word of God would be fulfilled in this act of betrayal, clearly revealing him, as a pawn of Satan.

Are we making headway, on the subject??


Petro

[ELI]

.

[Petro]

How is it that you can see, this in Esua, when you seem to not be able to see that Judas


BY ELI

You're comparing apples and oranges, Petro  

eli,

You wouldn't know the difference between and apple and an orange, if it were not for their colors.

Both Esau, and Judas, will meet in the fires of Hell, to put it bluntly to you, they both died in unbelief.

Judas was of God's very elect -- called and chosen from before the foundation of the world.

You are hallucination about Judas, he never was elect, from your vantage point he may be, but, it is clear, he was not chosen in Christ, from what the scriptures teach, he murdered himself, rather than acknowledge his sin of unbelief before God.

 

My guess is you have no idea who God's remnant elect really are -- and exactly how far they truly go back.

You guess wrong, all that you have posted to this point has been the result of your guessing, you need to get serious and quit being preseumptious.

How long have you been a Christian anyhow??

That’s ok, I don't think it’s a salvation issue but it sure could open doors and make things a whole lot easier to understand for you.

God bless

Peace
eli,

Funny, I am begining to have the same thoughts about you....

I was thinking of this scripture which may apply; the apostle wrote to the Hebrews in particular;

I wouldn't place much faith on the fact that you may be of the natural seed of Jacob, this is not what garauntees one belongs to the seed of Abraham.

On the other hand if you are Abraham's seed, you will submit yourself to Gods Word, and quit trying to twist it.

Heb  5
12  For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


Your forcing error upon the word of God, concerning Judas shows you have no idea what you are talking about, it doesn't mean you can't know, it simply means you don't know now, becaused you chose not to.

Have a good day....


Blessings,

Petro

[Jesussavedusall]

Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent"

God doesn't repent right?

[ELI]

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