Isn't this interference with the Master Plan?

[lex]

Well, I guess this is just an aspect of the irreconcilable concepts of God's omniscience and Man's free will.

If we were to pray, aren't we interfering what God has set?

Also, if people's prayers are contradictory, which one does God answers?

I've read a quotation - "Do not pray for easier problems, pray to be strongert men." This is an attempt to justify the power and extent of prayer. But where do you draw the line of the things that we can ask from God.

"Be content with what you have." Isn't this a tenet of Xtianity?

Then by praying, however trivial (winning a contest) it may be or however life-changing (save the life of a loved one), it still is an indication that we want more than God gave us. We are not contented.

If somebody could shed light into this.

Thanks

[Forrest]

     Lex;
What is Xtainity, I have never heard of it?

"Be content with what you have." Isn't this a tenet of Xtianity?

   Just becouse we may pray asking for something dosen't mean that GOD will say yes He can say no , or wait. As for praying for something agenst His Will the answer will always be no, we should always end prayer as Jesus did.

MT 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

[lex]

Forrest

I know u know what I mean by Xtianity but to avoid an argument and go back to my question - I'll state that it's obviously Christianity.

I think your post did not address my questions.

My quandaries include the nature of prayer to defeat God's foreknowledge of events and his Grand Plan, Prayers made by different people that are contradictory and prayer being an indication of discontentment.

[Saved_4ever]

You'd do yourself well to stop calling it xtianity.  To "x" out the name of Christ is beyond offensive.  You're trying to blot out the name of the Son of God being God in the flesh.

Joh 1:1
¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5
¶ And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Again though I will tell you.  You ask of things beyond your current ability.  You can not even begin to discern spiritual things until you have been saved.

God bless,
Jason

[kathleen5]

Lex, You are right,  at times people will be praying the oppisite things for the same situations.  However, the purpose of prayer is not just asking for 'things'.  It is a relationship with the Almighty and with that during prayer we should also spend time listening.  If our prayers are 'off' or our motives are incorrect the Lord will let us know if we take the time to listen to him.  

In Christ
Kathleen

[Ambassador4Christ]

Again though I will tell you.  You ask of things beyond your current ability.  You can not even begin to discern spiritual things until you have been saved.

God bless,
Jason

DITTO  

[GarColga]

You'd do yourself well to stop calling it xtianity.  To "x" out the name of Christ is beyond offensive.  You're trying to blot out the name of the Son of God being God in the flesh.

The use of an 'x' to signify Christ may seem offensive but why? It is a convention that is almost as old as Christianity itself. The first letter in the Greek word for 'Christ' is 'chi,' and the Greek letter 'chi' is represented by a symbol similar to the letter 'X' in the modern Roman alphabet. Whether the poster meant to be disrespectful or not I don't know, but it's a perfectly legitimate abbreviation.

Again though I will tell you.  You ask of things beyond your current ability.  You can not even begin to discern spiritual things until you have been saved.

This might be true if all people who have been saved spiritually discerned everything the same way. Really it's just an attempt to escape critical evaluation of your beliefs.

[Sower]

Well, I guess this is just an aspect of the irreconcilable concepts of God's omniscience and Man's free will.

There is really nothing "irreconcilable" about these two things. God knows the end from the beginning and He does give mankind the ability and privelege to make choices.

If we were to pray, aren't we interfering what God has set?

God has not pre-set anything, but He already knows who will pray for what. The Lord commands us to pray.

Also, if people's prayers are contradictory, which one does God answers?

Prayers which conform to God's will, His character, and His Word will receive answers according to His good pleasure. Prayers which fail these tests will not be answered.

I've read a quotation - "Do not pray for easier problems, pray to be strongert men."

There is no Scriptural basis for this seemingly wise statement. God wants us to pray for ALL things.

But where do you draw the line of the things that we can ask from God.

There is no line or limit that God has set. Instead He has said "If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed ... ALL THINGS shall be possible unto you". We limit God.  He does not limit us.

"Be content with what you have." Isn't this a tenet of Xtianity?

Yes. It applies to our own personal material possessions. This means that greed should not motivate our prayers. Need should be the motivator. As to God's kingdom and His righteousness, there should be no limit to our asking for the salvation of souls, the edification of saints, and the increase of His kingdom on earth.

Then by praying, however trivial (winning a contest) it may be or however life-changing (save the life of a loved one), it still is an indication that we want more than God gave us. We are not contented.

This is a misunderstanding of the Word.  "Contentment" applies to our own material needs and wants. Everything else should be "discontentment" -- more souls, more righteousness, more unity, more maturity, etc..

[Forrest]

Forrest

I know u know what I mean by Xtianity but to avoid an argument and go back to my question - I'll state that it's obviously Christianity.
If I would have knowen I wouldn't of asked?

I think your post did not address my questions.

My quandaries include the nature of prayer to defeat God's foreknowledge of events and his Grand Plan, Prayers made by different people that are contradictory and prayer being an indication of discontentment.

[geralduk]

Prayer is NOT to make God our mesenger boy.
But to BRING into manifestation THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
The FIRST pettition in what is called the LORDS PRAYER but is in fact the PATTERN of [prayer by which ours should folow.
was "THY kingdom come,THY WILL be done"
As Christians we are not here to do "our own will but the will of Him who sent us"
and as such our prayers should be "SEEKING THE KINGDOM OF GOD and HIS rightousness FIRST then all the things we are in NEED of TO THAT END will be added unto us"
In THAT context I see NOWHERE in scripture God saying NO to any prayer.
but are YEA AND AMEN in Christ Jesus.
The only NO is when we "pray amiss"

[joyunending]

I always felt that prayer was a form of communication with our Father in heaven.  Jesus told us to pray continually and ask and it shall be given, etc.
    If Jesus, being Gods' only begotten Son prayed continually, asking for things, but in the end , saying not mine but thy will be done, we are to do the same.
    As far as changing  or interfering with the Master plan, God knows when and what you will pray and He knows His answer, as far as I believe.  
          God wants us to come to Him with everything in our lives, not just when we're in trouble, or sad, or wanting.  We are to pray for others, for needs, pray with thanksgiving, and joy, in mourning, and for just any reason you can think of.
        We talk to our earthly fathers, asking for needs, talking about our day, thanking them for things they have done for us, etc.   They love us very much, but nothing like the way our Father in Heaven loves us..... He wants us to rely on Him for everything, and we can't do that if we can't 'talk ' to Him, and praise Him , and thank Him, and believe that what He answers is for our best interest, not just something given to us because we selfishly ask for it.
          That is how I believe it is,,,,, it seems others somewhat agree with it....... Joy

[Symphony]

You seem to suggest, lex, that prayer is a contradiction to God's all-knowing, or foreknowledge:

Well, I guess this is just an aspect of the irreconcilable concepts of God's omniscience and Man's free will.

Or that the two, prayer and God's all-knowing, are irreconcilable.

But you forgot one thing:  God's foreknowledge can also include the fact of your prayer.  In fact, His omniscience certainly would include that.

If you pray, he has already forecast that.  If you don't pray, that too has already been forecast.

You're forgetting that it is only we who do not know the future.  God already knows what you are going to do.

Our prayer isn't for God.  He already knows what we ask.  Our prayer is for us.  A lesson in modesty, or humility.  If he does answer our prayer according to what we ask, it may be a suprise to us; it's no surprise to him.  He already knew you were going to pray for it, and He already knew he was going to answer it.

(hehe).  Now isn't that wacko??!!

I'm not sure that it is irreconcilable, however.

[John the Baptist]

John here:
You correctly state that the knowledgeable one asks that God's will be done in the Lord's prayer.

And there are differant prayers. (standing, kneeling, driving, attitude of prayer, closet, sick, Worship +) And about your remark that I saved below, perhaps one might pray & study some more on this?

Isa. 59:1-2 tells us that because of flagrant unconfessed sin, God will not HEAR us!

And another verse in John 9:31 we are told, "Now we KNOW that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a Worshiper of God and DOETH HIS WILL, him God HEARETH."

One more: "If I [REGARD] iniquity in my heart, the Lord WILL NOT HEAR ME." Ps. 66:18 & then there is 1 John 5:16's last part of verse? Pray for this sin? I don't think so!

That leaves a lot to be questioned? Praying [certain] request's for certain KNOWN sinners for one? Even sickness brought on by ones continued use of tobacco or whatever?
How about canned rosary recitation of Hail Maries?
 
Personally, I might stand alone here, but I  do question [certain] types of prayer for people that I do not have a spiritual knowledge of, or of their desire to have this knowledge?

Perhaps you classify this as the "pray amiss" remark?

---John
++++++
 
(removed)

You say:
".. I see NOWHERE in scripture God saying NO to any prayer.
but are YEA AND AMEN in Christ Jesus.
The only NO is when we "pray amiss"

[lex]

Saved_4ever

Again though I will tell you.  You ask of things beyond your current ability.  You can not even begin to discern spiritual things until you have been saved.

How then do I know that I am on the right path to Salvation if i do not fully comprehend what is its nature?

[lex]

Saved_4ever

Again though I will tell you.  You ask of things beyond your current ability.  You can not even begin to discern spiritual things until you have been saved.

This is a serious problem I have regarding the inability of humans to answer questions that are supposed to be reserved only for God. He gave us logic and reasoning right? We should use it......

How can I be sure that I am on the right path to salvation if I do not comprehend its nature?

Sower

Also, if people's prayers are contradictory, which one does God answers?  
 
Prayers which conform to God's will, His character, and His Word will receive answers according to His good pleasure. Prayers which fail these tests will not be answered.

What if two prayers conform to God's standards, yet they contradict each other (A poor man praying for rain for a good harvest to feed his family and a poor man praying not to rain because it will destroy his house)?

"Be content with what you have." Isn't this a tenet of Xtianity?  
 
Yes. It applies to our own personal material possessions. This means that greed should not motivate our prayers. Need should be the motivator. As to God's kingdom and His righteousness, there should be no limit to our asking for the salvation of souls, the edification of saints, and the increase of His kingdom on earth.

Why are the poor still poor? Why do people die for no reason at all? Life is a basic necessity - why deny them of this?

Then by praying, however trivial (winning a contest) it may be or however life-changing (save the life of a loved one), it still is an indication that we want more than God gave us. We are not contented.  
 
This is a misunderstanding of the Word.  "Contentment" applies to our own material needs and wants. Everything else should be "discontentment" -- more souls, more righteousness, more unity, more maturity, etc..

Are you implying that we should all pray to be happy and righteous? Life is defined by problems and tests, isn't it? For if there was no evil, there would be no good. So all that is and all that was, good or bad, is God's will. If we wish to be happy forever, our humanity and would be robbed out of us - and the inherent abilities to make decisions and face problems. Why pray against it?

geralduk

So ur saying that prayer should not be about asking for something?