Does God choose people?

[Elijah]

I often wonder does God choose people he wants saved. Some people say that he doesn’t` and that it’s` up to us to preach the gospel that they might choose salvation, others say God chose people before creation.
What I believe is that God chooses people who are most Godly like, then leads them to the Gospel in which he gives them salvation through Jesus Christ, that’s what I believe.
Anyway I think about this all the time and I would like to hear what you believe.

Thanks

God Bless.

[Athanael]

I agree with you that some personal choice is involved in achieving salvation. However, it seems that sometimes God makes the decision ahead of time. For instance, in Exodus there are numerous references to God "hardening Pharaoh's heart." Apparently God MADE him defy Moses, without giving him a choice in the matter.

[Petro]

Good question..

Jesus while speaking to His disciples says He chose them and they did not chose Him.  And yet one was a devil.  (Jhn 6:70, JHn 15:16,19))

And in this other passage He chooses whom to reveal the Father to; (Mat 11:27)

And then;

2 Th 2
2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13  But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The important thing to remember is not that God, calls good people but sinners to repentance and God who knows the hearts of those who obey;  HE saves.

Blessings,

Petro

[Heidi]

Read in the Gospel of John. Jesus specifically says that we don't choose Him, He chooses us. He also explains why. But He also says that no on can come to the Father unless the Father draws him. If God is drawing you then He will make sure that you are saved. It has nothing to do with choice. The apostle Paul didn't wake up one day and decide to become a Christain. He was zapped because God knew his heart. He then believed because the Holy Spirit ruled him.

[Ralph]

  Elijah--Rather than conjecture, follow the testimony of Scripture. In Ephesians chapter one, it says that "He has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ Jesus ACCORDING AS [caps mine] He has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world." In other words, there is NO blessing which we receive that is not the result of being chosen in Him. God's choice is the determiner of everything--"blessed us with all---according as He has chosen."
  This choosing does not at all make the preaching of the gospel unnecessary, because the preaching of the gospel is the appointed means by which He draws His people to Himself.
Rather than discourage the preaching of the gospel, it greatly encourages it because His electing of His people to salvation
makes certain the success of the gospel. The only people who would be discouraged in preaching the gospel because of election are those who want to be the ones who make the difference themselves, rather than God; that is, those who seek their own glory, rather than God's.

[Heidi]

Well said, Ralph. I do not, however, believe we have personal choice. We simply respond to our least stressful option. As our fears decrease, our options increase. We are slaves to whatever masters us. If we are ruled by the Holy Spirit, then we will respond to it which is why blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin. God allows pain in our lives and a way out (salvation). We can only take the way out when our pain is too much to bear.

[Petro]

Well said, Ralph. I do not, however, believe we have personal choice. We simply respond to our least stressful option. As our fears decrease, our options increase. We are slaves to whatever masters us. If we are ruled by the Holy Spirit, then we will respond to it which is why blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin. God allows pain in our lives and a way out (salvation). We can only take the way out when our pain is too much to bear.

Heidi,

Excellent point, I say keep them coming..

God Bless,

Petro

[Left Coast]

What I believe is that God chooses people who are most Godly like, then leads them to the Gospel in which he gives them salvation through Jesus Christ, that’s what I believe.

I was not a godly person, far from it. I wasn’t a criminal but I wasn’t godly.
I’m sure there are other stories but sometime you might want to read about John Newton, writer of Amazing Grace, pastor and all around child of God.
His life would be an Academy Award winning movie, problem is Christians couldn’t go it would be “R” rated or worse.
God saves all types, but I think you might be somewhat right that if a child is raised in a God fearing family the Lord might be more merciful to them.    

[Elijah]

What I believe is that God chooses people who are most Godly like, then leads them to the Gospel in which he gives them salvation through Jesus Christ, that’s what I believe.

I was not a godly person, far from it. I wasn’t a criminal but I wasn’t godly.
 

Good point! And I don’t think there is any such thing as a Godly person I think I said it wrong. As someone said before, God calls on sinners to come to repentance and he knows their hearts.

[Petro]

What I believe is that God chooses people who are most Godly like, then leads them to the Gospel in which he gives them salvation through Jesus Christ, that’s what I believe.

I think you might be somewhat right that if a child is raised in a God fearing family the Lord might be more merciful to them.    

Not to raise a contentious issue.

The word states a believing husband or wife, sanctify the unbelieving husband or wife,  and the last part of the verse, seems to deal with their children. (1 Cor 7:14)  I would have to say, that the children are also sanctified (set apart), maybe I am wrong, but it is a fact saved parents who raise their children in the fear and admonishment in the Lord, trust in Him, and the Lord honors parenst prayers for the children, on the otherhand, who prays for the unsaved parents children.

This is not to say God, does not save whomever He wills to save.  This is why, I leave such things at his feet..

If I am not mistaken this verse, is used as a proof text, to show, God saves all infants, or children which die before coming to faith in the Lord, unfortunately, the verse does not prove this conclusively.

Blessings,

Petro

[Ralph]

  Elijah--if God chose those who were most "Godly-like," as you say, then they would, in a sense, have something to boast of before God. They would in themselves have had something to do with their own salvation. There are Scriptures which militate against that idea. First, we are all born with an Adamic nature; the same nature as everyone else. If there is any difference between us, it is not of OUR doing, but is from God, who makes us differ from one another
(1Cor.4:7). As the apostle said, "What do you have that you did not receive; and if you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it? Secondly, in 1Cor.26-31, Paul goes into great detail to show that God chose those who would have nothing to boast of in themselves. He closes this section of Scripture with, "That no flesh should glory in His presence. "But of Him" [don't miss this] "of Him" are you in Christ Jesus, who became for us "wisdom from God-and righteousness and sanctification and redemption-that, as it is written, "He that glories, let him glory in the Lord." Notice:
It is not of ourselves, but "of Him" that we are in Christ, and
our "wisdom". our "righteousness", our "sanctification," and our
"redemption" are not from ourselves, but from Christ who of God is made these things unto us. Therefore, (as Paul closes this thought) "as it is written, He who glories, let him glory in the Lord." In many places, if you watch for it, you will see the writers make note of God's ways being such that He cuts off any opportunity for men to glory in themselves. He says in the OT that He will not share His glory with another. We should therefore look with suspicion on any ideas which would tend to give a share of His glory to men in any way.

[Left Coast]

sanc·ti·fy
tr.v. sanc·ti·fied, sanc·ti·fy·ing, sanc·ti·fies
To set apart for sacred use; consecrate.
To make holy; purify.
To give religious sanction to, as with an oath or vow: sanctify a marriage.
To give social or moral sanction to.
To make productive of holiness or spiritual blessing.

To be sanctified does not mean that they become saved. An unbelieving husband is still an unbelieving husband, and unbelieving children fall in the same category.
However through the believers life and by reading to children they are under the hearing of the gospel.
Because God saves through His word I think it increases the odds of the children being saved. Since we cannot lose our salvation and many true and faithful parents have seen their children go against the Lord two conclusions can be made:
1. Children are not saved just because their parents are.
2. All children never could be saved just because they are babies.
God does pass judgment on children:

Deuteronomy 32:25  The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.

This is Gods judgment on the nation of Israel. But it is also speaking of Gods judgment on all mankind. Christ is the Rock of our salvation. Notice God was angry because of the actions of Jeshurun found in verse fifteen:

Deuteronomy 32:15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.

We see the beautiful giggly little baby God sees the heart. God can change the heart but only through the hearing of the word. So yes I think it increases the chances of babies being saved.
And remember they can even hear the word when they are in the womb. Read to those tummies!

Luke 1:41  And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
Luke 1:44  For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

[apostolicsista]

Praise Him,
I believe that we are chosen by God , it is then up to us to obey that calling that God has on us. Just a few Scriptures:
Ephesians 1:4  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people: that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath callled you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it to you

so much more ....we are all predestinated
Peace Be Unto you,
Apostolicsista

[Petro]

sanc·ti·fy
tr.v. sanc·ti·fied, sanc·ti·fy·ing, sanc·ti·fies
To set apart for sacred use; consecrate.
To make holy; purify.
To give religious sanction to, as with an oath or vow: sanctify a marriage.
To give social or moral sanction to.
To make productive of holiness or spiritual blessing.

To be sanctified does not mean that they become saved. An unbelieving husband is still an unbelieving husband, and unbelieving children fall in the same category.
However through the believers life and by reading to children they are under the hearing of the gospel.
Because God saves through His word I think it increases the odds of the children being saved. Since we cannot lose our salvation and many true and faithful parents have seen their children go against the Lord two conclusions can be made:
1. Children are not saved just because their parents are.
2. All children never could be saved just because they are babies.

I never implied at all they were saved.

I am simply pointing out, in addition to your coment in your last post, that children are sanctified, set apart, to hear the Gospel and understand it.

It is clear the promises, are to the parents and the children.

God does pass judgment on children:

Deuteronomy 32:25  The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.

This is Gods judgment on the nation of Israel. But it is also speaking of Gods judgment on all mankind. Christ is the Rock of our salvation. Notice God was angry because of the actions of Jeshurun found in verse fifteen:

Deuteronomy 32:15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.

We see the beautiful giggly little baby God sees the heart. God can change the heart but only through the hearing of the word. So yes I think it increases the chances of babies being saved.
And remember they can even hear the word when they are in the womb. Read to those tummies!

Luke 1:41  And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
Luke 1:44  For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Amen..

Petro

[Petro]

Praise Him,
I believe that we are chosen by God , it is then up to us to obey that calling that God has on us. Just a few Scriptures:
Ephesians 1:4  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people: that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath callled you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it to you

so much more ....we are all predestinated
Peace Be Unto you,
Apostolicsista

apostolicista,  welcome to the board,

I haven't heard the word you use as your handle for many years.

But anyhow, I will second what you have rvealed, with an AMEN..

Are you a spanish speaking christian??

Blessings,
Petro