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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
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Author Topic: Is Jesus God? - Part One  (Read 39815 times)
Jabez
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« on: January 12, 2004, 02:57:08 PM »

I beleive Jesus is the son of God,not God himself.

John 7:16 "Jesus answered them and said, 'My doctrine is not mine, but His who sent me.' "

John 14:24 "He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but The Father's who sent me."

John 12:49 "For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak."
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2004, 03:26:21 PM »

I believe in the Trinity which is one God-head – the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - so, in fact I believe Jesus IS (not was) God.  However when Jesus walked the earth as a man, He walked in two roles – one as human and the other as divine.  When Jesus acted in His human nature, He was God's Son.  When Jesus acted in His divine nature, He was God (and still IS).  Sounds schizophrenic – but I assure you God has it all worked out.  For God to die for our sins He had to come to earth as man and be tempted as man is tempted.  The logical way to do that was as the Son.  Read the first few lines of the Gospel of John: I understand it to say Jesus is the Word, and the Word IS, WAS, and always WILL be.  That can only be said about God; hence, Jesus is God.  Another example – only God can forgive sins.  Jesus forgives sins.  Thus, again, Jesus is God.
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ravenloche
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2004, 07:03:17 PM »

Posted by: Jabez  Posted on: Today at 01:57:08pm  
I beleive Jesus is the son of God,not God himself.
 
Geetings, and shalom :

Let us look at the scriptures, and see what the word of God
has to say in answer to your question!

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not

We see here that Jesus(the Word) was in the very beginning
with Eloim, and the Word was God.  In verse 3 we see that
all of creation was made by Jesus. now let us go for a trip to
the book of Gen.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God was manifest in the flesh--Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

justified in the spirit---1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

seen of angels---Joh 20:11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,
Joh 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

preached unto the gentiles--see book called bible  (lol  Smiley)

believed on in the world--act 2:38-Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

received up into glory--Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

In the book of col. we are told that all of the godhead was in
Yeshua(jesus)-Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Let us now go to the book of Phil.
Phi 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Phi 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I can list scriptures from the book of Gen--to the book of Rev.
but I believe that this is a good start, if you would like more
scriptures please ask, and I will gladly present more proof of
the deity of Yeshua.

respectfully yours in Yeshua:

 :)ravenloche Smiley

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if not you, who? if not now, when?
if not here, where? if it is to be it is up to me!
John 3:17 for he came not into the world to condemn the world, but that the world thru him might be saved! Rom 8:1 there is therefore no con-
demnation to those who are in
christ Jesus...
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2004, 08:39:41 PM »

Amen ravenloche!

Very well said.

Grace and Peace!
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2004, 11:33:09 PM »

AMEN! JudgeNot and Ravenloche.

Jabez, Almighty God is indeed a Holy Trinity, 3 Holy Deities in ONE ALMIGHTY AND ALL POWERFUL GOD. Jesus Christ took the lowly form of a man and died on the Cross for you and me. Yes, they crucified GOD, VERY GOD, but HE arose from the dead and is our Precious Lord and Saviour.

Jabez, this is part of the mystery not known to men of other ages. Jesus Christ did suffer pain and death in the form of a man to be offered as a perfect sacrifice and GIFT! HE LIVES so that we might live and call upon HIS NAME to be the Lord and Saviour of our lives. If we accept God's Grace, Love, and Perfect GIFT, HIS Holy Spirit indwells our hearts and sets us apart as children of God. The Holy Spirit is also GOD, VERY GOD.

Thanks be unto GOD for HIS unspeakable GIFT!

Love in Christ,
Tom
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Jabez
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2004, 06:09:06 AM »

Ive always beleived in God,The Son and the Holy Ghost.God knows my heart yet i feel awful for not knowing this.I tell you the truth, i have been learning so much and iam filled with great joy beyond words.May God continue to guide me in truth.Thank you all for your wonderful responses.

Ray
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2004, 07:02:45 AM »

Oklahoma Howdy to Jabez,

Brother, I know you are learning a lot. I'm thinking that it might be possible you are going too fast and trying to digest too much at once. It's nothing to feel bad about. I think you will enjoy it much more if you slow down just a little. The real beauty and power of the Holy Bible is seen when you see how various portions link together and compliment one another. When you start to see this, you know beyond any doubt that it must be the Inspired Word of God.

Maybe we could make some suggestions if we knew what version of the Bible you are studying and what method or plan you are using to study. I will be happy to help you in any way that I can.

Love In Christ,
Tom
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2004, 08:42:22 AM »

Jesus always claimed to be the son of God, not God. He talked about one greater than Him all the time. Also, when talking about the end of the age Jesus said, "No one knows the hour, not even the son." He acknowledged He is not omniscient. He was WITH Hi Father in the beginning and will sit at the RIGHT HAND of the Father in the end. He was conceived of a human being and the Holy Spirit. God is and always was. I have no problem with the fact that Jesus is the son of God, not God Himself. He is still the only way to God.
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2004, 09:02:33 AM »

Quote
Ive always beleived in God,The Son and the Holy Ghost.God knows my heart yet i feel awful for not knowing this.I tell you the truth, i have been learning so much and iam filled with great joy beyond words.May God continue to guide me in truth.Thank you all for your wonderful responses.

Ray

If I had a nickel for every time I've felt this way brother... Wink  Follow Tom's advice.  It is very sound.   Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2004, 09:15:20 AM »

Quote
Jesus always claimed to be the son of God, not God. He talked about one greater than Him all the time. Also, when talking about the end of the age Jesus said, "No one knows the hour, not even the son." He acknowledged He is not omniscient. He was WITH Hi Father in the beginning and will sit at the RIGHT HAND of the Father in the end. He was conceived of a human being and the Holy Spirit. God is and always was. I have no problem with the fact that Jesus is the son of God, not God Himself. He is still the only way to God.

This has been the hang up for so many people for so many years, and it's basis is in a lack of understanding.  Not biblical/spiritual understanding alone, but also in scholarship.  Christ Himself stated to the disciples on the road to Emmaus...

Quote
And he said to them, "What things?" And they said to him, "Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, a man who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, and how our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death, and crucified him. But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things happened. 22Moreover, some women of our company amazed us. They were at the tomb early in the morning, and when they did not find his body, they came back saying that they had even seen a vision of angels, who said that he was alive. Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see." And he said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?" And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.

Luke 24:19-27

I find it very interesting how Jesus began teaching them - with Moses (the Pentateuch - first five books of the Old Testament) and the Prophets.  Moses laid the very ground work for the need, and the inevitable beginnings of provision for Christ's birth, and sacrifice.  The prophets shed further light and revelation on the form that sacrifice would take.

Now.  It is simple to say that this is in prophetic understanding of Jesus being born as Son of God.  However, if you look at the Old Testament, and the light that the New Testament sheds thereon...we see an eternal member of the Godhead, 3 in 1, from the very beginning.  Genesis 1 tells us of Elohim, a plural form of the word we translate God.  Is this then a wrong translation?  No!  We must remember how it was received by the Jews to whomst it was originally written.  They understood it to be God, not Gods.  Even the word the Hebrews used in describing the One God meant a duplicitous nature - One God, More Persons.  The New Testament sheds further light.  One God, Three Persons.

The New Testament irrevocably presents Jesus as God.  Yes, as the Son in the Godhead, but no less, or no more God than the Father.  Uniquely, the Holy Spirit is likewise presented.  

It takes faith to accept what we cannot fully comprehend.  But then, is that not how God deals with us at all times?  It takes faith.  But it is not a faith that is without basis.  It is faith based upon the word.  And is that not the very definition of faith?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2004, 09:16:34 AM by Allinall » Logged



"that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death"
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2004, 10:05:47 AM »

Hey guys,
Let’s do this – let’s just ask Jesus.  (After all – most of us speak to Him several times a day, anyhow.)
Dear Lord Jesus, are you God?

Quote
“I and My Father are one.”
John 10:30

Thank you, Dear Jesus for showing us Your answer. AMEN!
 Grin
« Last Edit: January 13, 2004, 10:07:57 AM by JudgeNot » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2004, 08:53:20 AM »

Amen Judgenot!  Smiley
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2004, 12:22:49 PM »

Oklahoma Howdy to Jabez,

Brother, I know you are learning a lot. I'm thinking that it might be possible you are going too fast and trying to digest too much at once. It's nothing to feel bad about. I think you will enjoy it much more if you slow down just a little. The real beauty and power of the Holy Bible is seen when you see how various portions link together and compliment one another. When you start to see this, you know beyond any doubt that it must be the Inspired Word of God.

Maybe we could make some suggestions if we knew what version of the Bible you are studying and what method or plan you are using to study. I will be happy to help you in any way that I can.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Thank you Tom and all!

Bibles iam useing are:
1-New International Version-I read this mainly
2-King James Version-Reference with what i read in the above.

My plan as of now is just to read the whole NT,which ive never done.Allow the spirit to guide me truth!
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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2004, 07:59:20 PM »

Oklahoma Howdy to Jabez,

Brother, I highly recommend e-Sword, the computer Bible Study package that is available free if you download it:

http://www.e-sword.net/

Others may disagree, but I would be studying the KJV. If you download e-Sword, there are a ton of free dictionaries, commentaries, and Bible Study aids you can add to e-Sword and quickly switch back and forth between various translations of the Bible and all of the study aids. I like to use the KJV with Strong's Numbers built in. You put your mouse over a Strong's Number, and the Strong's definition pops up for the word. There is a huge selection of Bible Dictionaries that are interactive with the Bible while you read it. Other than Strong's, I use Easton, Naves, Vines, and Webster's fairly often. If you click a word while reading, a symbol comes up on the dictionaries with addional information. I have all of the commentaries installed. If you click on a verse, a symbol comes up on the commentaries with additional information. e-Sword is excellent.

If you click on a book of the Bible, a symbol comes up on each commentary with a preface to the book. This really helps in giving you an idea about the purpose, audience, and writer of the book. It's simply nice to set the stage before you start reading.

Reading the entire New Testament very slowly is a good idea. However, I would recommend that you do considerable study of the entire Bible before trying to read and digest Revelation. I'll try to come up with some ideas for you.

Love In Christ,
Tom
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2004, 02:12:06 AM »

I beleive Jesus is the son of God,not God himself.

John 7:16 "Jesus answered them and said, 'My doctrine is not mine, but His who sent me.' "

John 14:24 "He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but The Father's who sent me."

John 12:49 "For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak."


jabez,

What do you make of these verses??

1 Tim 3
16  And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Jhn 1
1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


These are the types of excersizes that strengthens the FAITH.

Heb 5
13  For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Your questions show plainly you are doing some heavy chewing, this is a good sign..it means you have strong teeth... and growing in the knowledge of the Lord.

God Bless,

Petro
« Last Edit: January 15, 2004, 02:14:24 AM by Petro » Logged

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