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76  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:IsraelsFirstReturn on: November 02, 2003, 07:39:49 AM
Any thoughts on this scripture?

Ex 4:22
22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
KJV


There it is again. The two houses of Israel, and the so-called lost sheep of Israel. God intends to reunite them, and especially the first born, Ephraim, who was son of Joseph. The first born double portion refers to the Spirit which was given to the church. Once the church is reunited with Judah, which does have many Messianic converts today, then the prophecy of the dry bones in Exekiel 37:16,17 will be fulfilled.
Much of the church today like to pridefully claim a replacement theology, but I see the scriptures clearly saying that God does not lose anything - especially His first born.
Hosea sons were named after Israel (Ephraim), and said that although Ephraims sins were so bad that he would be so swallowed up by the Gentile nations he'd become loammi - which means not my people, but they would become as "sons of the living God" later on.


Jeremiah 31:9  They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Hosea 1:9  Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10  Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Hosea 9:13  Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.

Ephraim planted in a pleasant place...? Does this sound like the New World, America? Perhaps the second part of the verse refers to us aborting our children in numbers that God surely has noticed.



77  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:attacks in Israel on: November 02, 2003, 07:26:47 AM
What makes a person an Israelie?

Place of birth?

Blood line of parents?
     
        IF bloodline what %

Does an  he/she have to be of the Jewish faith?



Ezekial 37:16  Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17  And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

The grafted in wild branches, companions, and the two houses of Israel are those that will be saved. I believe that The house of Israel or Ephraim is to a large part the church today which Jesus spoke of as the "lost sheep' that He came to save. Ephraim was and is the first born of God that receives the double portion or double blessing and is spoke of in Hosea as becoming like "Sons of the living God". Does that name sound familiar? It sure does. Ephraim and Judah are to be reunited before the end along with all those that beleive in Messiah - Jesus. A true Jew is one of the heart.

Jeremiah 31:9  They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Acts 13:23  Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Romans 2:28 (LIV) For you are not real Jews just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the Jewish initiation ceremony of circumcision.
29 No, a real Jew is anyone whose heart is right with God. For God is not actually looking for for those who cut their bodies in actual body circumcision, but He is looking for those with changed hearts and minds. Whoever has that kind of change in his life will get praise from God, even if not from you.

Jesus spoke of other "sheep which are not of this fold; I must bring them in also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd." And "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (John 10:16; Matthew 15:24)



78  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:Israelophiles on: November 02, 2003, 07:17:22 AM
Ezek 11:17 Therefore say, 'thus says Yahweh Elohim, "I will gather you from the peoples and assemble you out of the countries among which you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel."

Ezek 20:41,42 As a soothing aroma I will accept you when I bring you out from the peoples and gather you from the lands where you are scattered; and I will prove Myself holy among you in the sight of the nations. And you will know that I am Yahweh when I bring you into the land of Israel, into the land which I swore to give to your forefathers.

Ezek 34:13-15 I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and bring them to their own land; and I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the streams, and in the inhabited places of the land. I will feed the in a good pasture, and their grazing ground will be on the mountain heights of Israel. There they will lie down on good grazing ground and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. I will feed My flock and will lead them to rest, declares Yahweh.

Ezek 36:8-12 But you, O mountains of Israel, you will put forth your branches ands bear your fruit for My people Israel; for they will soon come. For behold, I am for you, and I will turn to you, and your will be cultivated and sown. I will multiply men on you, all the house of Israel, all of it; and the cities will be inhabited and the waste places will be rebuilt. I will multiply on you man and beast; and they will increase and be fruitful; and I will cause you to be inhabited as you were formerly and will treat you better than at the first. Thus you will know that I am Yahweh. Yes, I will cause men - My people Israel - to walk on you and possess you, so that you will become their inheritance and never again bereave them of children.

Ezek 36:24-28 For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your Elohim.

Ezek 38:8 After many days you will be summoned; in the latter years you will come into the land that is restored from the sword, whose inhabitants have been gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel which had been a continual waste; but its people were brought out from the nations, and they are living securely, all of them.

Amos 9:14,15 Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, and they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them; they will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, and make gardens and eat their fruit. I will also plant them on their land, and they will not again be rooted out from their land which I have given them, says Yahweh your Elohim.

Micah 4:6-8 In that day, declares Yahweh, I will assemble the lame and gather the outcasts, Even those whom I have afflicted. I will make the lame a remnant and the outcasts a strong nation. And Yahweh will reign over them in Mount Zion from now on and forever. As for you, tower of the flock, hill of the daughter of Zion, to you will come - even the former dominion will come, the kingdom of the daughter of Jerusalem.

Zeph 2:7 And the coast will be for the remnant of the house of Judah, they will pasture on it. In the houses of Ashkelon they will lie down at evening; for Yahweh their Elohim will care for them and restore their fortune.

Zech 2:11,12 Many nations will join themselves to Yahweh in that day and will become My people. Then I will dwell in their midst, and you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent Me to you. Yahweh will possess Judah as His portion in the holy land and will again choose Jerusalem.

Zech 8:7,8 Thus says Yahweh of hosts, behold I am going to save My people from the land of the east and from the land of the west; and I will bring them back and they will live in the midst of Jerusalem; and they shall be My people, and I will be their Elohim in truth and righteousness.
Zech.9:13  When I have bent Judah for me, filled the bow with Ephraim, and raised up thy sons, O Zion, against thy sons, O Greece, and made thee as the sword of a mighty man. 14  And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.

Zech 10:8-10 I will strengthen the house of Judah, and will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them back, because I have had compassion on them; and they will be as though I had not rejected them, for I am Yahweh their Elohim and I will answer them. Ephraim will be like a mighty man, and their heart will be glad as if from wine; indeed, their children will see it and be glad, their heart will rejoice in Yahweh. I will whistle for them to gather them together, for I have redeemed them; and they will be as numerous as they were before. When I scatter them among the peoples, they will remember Me in far countries, and they with their children will live and come back. I will bring them back from the land of Egypt and gather them from Assyria; and I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon until no room can be found for them.
79  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:Israelophiles on: November 02, 2003, 07:16:58 AM
Zechariah 14;9 And the LORD shall be King over all the earth

Lamentations 4;22 The punishment of your iniquity is finished daughter of Zion; he will no more carry you away into captivity. He will visit your iniquity, daughter of Edom; he will discover your sins - This is all for the future

Revelations 20:2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3  And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7  And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
 
1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Revelation 12:5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations
with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne."

Revelation 19:15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the
nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine
press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
Isaiah 65:25  The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent’s meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

Zec 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Isaiah 14:1 When Yahweh will have compassion on Jacob and again choose Israel, and settle them in their own land, then strangers will join them and attach themselves to the house of Jacob...

Isaiah 34:16,17 Seek from the book of Yahweh, and read: Not one of these will be missing; none will lack its mate. For His mouth has commanded, and His Spirit has gathered them. He has cast the lot for them, and His hand has divided it to them by line. They shall possess it forever; from generation to generation they will dwell in it.

Isaiah 35:10 And the ransomed of Yahweh will return and come with joyful shouting to Zion, with everlasting joy upon their heads. They will find gladness and joy, and sorrow and sighing will flee away.

Isaiah 65:9,10 I will bring forth offspring from Jacob, and an heir of My mountain from Judah; even My chosen ones shall inherit it, and my servants will dwell there. Sharon will be a pasture land for flocks, and the valley of Achor a resting place for herds, for My people who seek Me.

Jer 3:18 In those days the house of Judah will walk with the house of Israel, and they will come together from the land of the north to the land that I gave your fathers as an inheritance.

Jer 16:14,15 Therefore behold, days are coming, declares Yahweh, when it will no longer be said, 'as Yahweh lives, who brought up the sons of Israel out of the land of Egypt,' but, 'as Yahweh lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of the north and from all the countries where He had banished them.' For I will restore them to their own land which I gave to their fathers.

Jer 29:14 I will be found of you, declares Yahweh, and I will restore your fortunes and will gather you from all the nations and from all the places where I have driven you, declares Yahweh, and I will bring you back to the place from where I sent you into exile.

Jer 30:2,3 Thus says Yahweh, the Elohim of Israel, 'write all the words which I have spoken to you in a book. For behold, days are coming,' declares Yahweh, 'when I will restore the fortunes of My people Israel and Judah.' Yahweh says, 'I will also bring them back to the land that I gave to their forefathers and they shall possess it.'

Jer 31:16-18 Restrain your voice from weeping and your eyes from tears; for your work will be rewarded, declares Yahweh, and they will return from the land of the enemy. There is hope for your future, declares Yahweh, and your children will return to their own territory. I have surely heard Ephraim grieving, 'You have chastised me, and I was chastised, like an untrained calf; bring me back that I may be restored, for You are Yahweh my Elohim...

Jer 50:19 And I will bring Israel back to his pasture and he will graze on Carmel and Bashan, and his desire will be satisfied in the hill country of Ephraim and Gilead.


80  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:The Beast is Here. on: November 02, 2003, 07:08:21 AM
I still kinda think that Islam is the beast and Mohammed the false prophet.
The United States and Britain gave life back to the beast of Islam by giving it oil money and developing its oil field. This is the beast that looks like a lamb but speaks like the dragon with two horns of power. This money has revived Islam from the defeat they received in Europe when Islam nearly conquered it at the gates of Vienna and at Tours France(732AD). This beast will lead the world into Armageddon - which it looks like it is doing. I know no other more satanic religion or any other religion that hates believers of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob more.

Notice verse 13, and think of the missle launchers used by the U.S. in the gulf war.

Revelation 13:11  And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12  And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13  And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14  And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15  And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16  And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18  Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


81  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:Bible Translations on: November 02, 2003, 06:46:54 AM
I like the KJV poetic style, but learned much about words with the amplified version paraphrase.
For accuracy, I have heard that NIV is accurate, but leaves out many verses. Believe it or not, I have heard people even detract from the strongs concordance on translations of plain word veracity. Sometimes, people stretch versions and translations to the limit in order to say what they want to hear - tickled ears, I fear?
82  Theology / General Theology / Re:Is Christianity Jewish ? on: October 12, 2003, 08:10:25 PM
I have to disagree with eliyosef's assertion that the promise given to Abraham was not to Gentiles, and AW's comment about "all Israel" being saved.

Studying the covenant in Genesis 17:1-6 I found that a "hamon goyim"(many nations), in verse four is a promise to make Abraham a father of "multitudes of Gentiles", specifically, a people who would cause a tumultuous commotion, or great noise (about Abraham's God), throughout the world. Their heirs would be exceedingly fruitful.

Here is the Strongs of many nations in vs. five:

01995 Nwmh hamown haw-mone’ or Nmh hamon (#Eze 5:7) haw-mone’

from 01993; TWOT-505a; n m

AV-multitude 62, noise 4, tumult 4, abundance 3, many 3, store 2, company 1, multiplied 1, riches 1, rumbling 1, sounding 1; 83

1) (Qal) murmur, roar, crowd, abundance, tumult, sound
1a) sound, murmur, rush, roar
1b) tumult, confusion
1c) crowd, multitude
1d) great number, abundance
1e) abundance, wealth
*******
01471 ywg gowy go’-ee rarely (shortened) yg goy go’-ee

apparently from the same root as 01465; TWOT-326e

AV-nation 374, heathen 143, Gentiles 30, people 11; 558

n m
1) nation, people
1a) nation, people
1a1) usually of non-Hebrew people
1a2) of descendants of Abraham
1a3) of Israel
1b) of swarm of locusts, other animals (fig.)

n pr m 1c) Goyim? =" nations"

To me, this means that Abraham was the father of both the Jewish people and the Gentile people. Both houses of Israel were branches cut off by their sins and taken into captivity. Ephraim (being those of the lost tribes) would represent those when Jesus spoke of other "sheep which are not of this fold; I must bring them in also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd." And "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (John 10:16; Matthew 15:24) - that have heard the voice of the shepherd, Jesus, and have been grafted back in. Judah went back to Jerusalem and rebuilt the wall, but rejected Messiah which is explained in Romans 11:25-26 - "For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery - so that you will not be wise in your own estimation - a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in: and thus all Israel will be saved...." Notice that ALL Israel will be saved in the end, which does go back to Ezekial 37 and the uniting of the two sticks or dead branches that had been cut off but now to be brought to life by His Spirit.

Another reference to the two houses of Israel is in Hebrews 8:8 were Israel and Judah are the recipients of the better covenant through Christ. Israel was always known as the house of Ephraim or Joseph, as the house of double blessing and the first born of God. Ephraim means to prosper while in captivity.
Here is a prophetic statement about these two dhouses that is being fulfilled even now:
Ezekial 37:16  Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17  And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
As I have stated at earlier times. I think the church is the house of Ephraim, hidden in a "pleasant place" - the USA - all these years and never really lost to God. As the Jews, the house of Judah convert and become aware of Messiah, the two houses will once again become "one" in God's hand.

Hosea 9:13  Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.

Jeremiah 31:9  They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.



83  Theology / General Theology / Re:IS SATURDAY THE CHRISTIAN SABBATH? on: July 26, 2003, 05:56:13 PM
There is only one eternal dwelling place where time is no more and days are not counted, nor weeks or months - IN CHRIST!

"For in Him ALL the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily, 10 and in Him you are made full, who is the head of ALL principality and power; (Col.2:9,10)
84  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:2nd Coming: January 2011 on: July 26, 2003, 05:43:27 PM
Just for the fun and interest of it, something else I saw. I can't give the Hebrew and Greek fonts, though for each word. Bible numerology is fascinating.  Smiley

The instructions to the seven churches in Revelations are:
1. Remember        - 227
2. Watch             - 540
3. to repent         - 309
4. rest(hold fast)  - 702
5. buy                 - 138
6. be faithful        -   81
7. beloved           -   14
                            2011

I cannot put the Hebrew letters down for the words, but they add up to 2011.

In Greek they add:
Remember      688
watch           1134
repent            794
hold fast         935
buy (purchase) 386
faithful            860
beloved           995

Which comes out to 5772 - Hebrew year - 2011
85  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:The Dragon (satan) on: July 24, 2003, 04:42:57 AM
Ephraim, could very well be the Palestinian people.

Zec 10:7-11, speaks of him, being gathered because they are redeemed, vs 8.

They have been gatherd into the land promnised to Abraham as a possession forever.


Petro

Ephraim was the son of Joseph, born in Egypt. His name means "to flouish in captivity". His brother was Manasseh. He ended up receiving the first born blessings from Jacob - the father of the tribes.

Jeremiah 31:9  They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Gen 41:52  And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction.

The name also means doubly fruitful. Because Israel (Jacob) loved the son of Rachel (Joseph) above all his other sons, he gave him the firstborn portion - a double portion. And Jacob went on, "And now your two sons, who were born to you in the land of Egypt before I came to you in Egypt, are mine; Ephraim and Mannaseh shall be mine, as Reuben and Simeon are." And, "May my name live on in them, and the names of my father Abraham and Isaac." Through a deliberate act, Jacob put "Ephraim before Manasseh" (Gen.48:20), and he proclaimed Ephraim to be Joseph's heir. For Israel said, "Ephraim shall be mine as Reuben", meaning "Ephraim shall be as my firstborn" (Gen.48:5) - confirmed by Jeremiah.

The firstborn rights are explained in Deuteronomy 21:17.

Surely you aren't saying that Ephraim is a son of Ishamel - Palestinians

In Israel the firstborn is preeminent, he is a priest and a sovereign, and he has a double portion. So as Jacob's firstborn heir, did Ephraim fulfill his call to become the next head of the family - the head who embodied the soul and character of Israel? Did Ephraim become a powerful prevailing prince?
 Years later, ten of the twelve tribes becam collectively know as Ephraimites (1 Kings 11:31; Judges12:5). This happened after the children of Israel came into the promised land of Canaan, they divided finto two houses Ephraim and Judah.
While all the tribes were Jacob's descendants (2 Kings 17:34), the northern kingdom of Ephraim was called Israel and the southern kingdom was called Judah. (1 Kings 12:21)

When they went into captivity as punishment for their sins, the tribes of Ephraim wre lost and absorbed into the world of Gentile nations and even called a "Lo ammi" - not His people, but later on were to have the name as "Sons of the living God". Does that term ring a bell?

Hos 1:10  Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
Hos 1:11  Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

Jezreel, the first son of Gomer - the name means to scatter as in to agriculturally sow, and Ephraim was sown into the world to develop and be gathered again as "Sons of the Living God" - as prophecy says that they will be reunited with Judah again throughout the New and Old testaments. They will gather back together and appoint themselves one head - I think that would be Jesus Christ, but I could be wrong.

Ezekial 37:16  Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17  And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

86  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:The Dragon (satan) on: July 23, 2003, 04:21:47 PM
The scripture seems clear to me that God intends for Ephraim and Judah to be reunited - the two houses of Israel. I think that Ephraim is the Church and Judah is the Jews. Us judging the Jews might not be wise and better left to God. The veil is being lifted off many of their eyes even now. I do not toss out the scriptures that speak of their reunion.

I do think that most of prophecy has been fulfilled, although I don't know Hitch's views. I do, however, believe that Israel is an important sign for the end times. I believe that the two witnesses are in place - the Jews and the Church, and that in some figurative fashion they will be killed by the beast which I see as Islam.

I definately don't believe in the Church being taken out for the flesh's sake. So many have died and "did not love their life, even unto death". What meaning would this scripture have if the Church was not here?

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Supposedly the Church isn't mentioned after the third chapter of Revelations, but who else would have the testimony and the blood of the Lamb?

Now when God judges the Jews, He won't need my help, so I don't. I just observe that they are spoken to often in the scripture right along with Ephraim.

Isa 11:12  And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
13  The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
14  But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.
87  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:The Chip. on: July 23, 2003, 01:49:15 AM
How does God mark His own? This would be a clue to what the mark of the beast would be.
88  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:The Dragon (satan) on: July 23, 2003, 01:30:29 AM
Romans 11:25-26 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery - so that you will not be wise in your own estimation - a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in: and thus ALL Israel will be saved....

Jesus spoke of other "sheep which are not of this fold; I must bring them in also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd." And "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (John 10:16; Matthew 15:24)

Ezekial 37:16  Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17  And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

Replacement theology has to replace scripture too.

Jer 3:18 In those days the house of Judah will walk with the house of Israel, and they will come together from the land of the north to the land that I gave your fathers as an inheritance.

Jer 30:2,3 Thus says Yahweh, the Elohim of Israel, 'write all the words which I have spoken to you in a book. For behold, days are coming,' declares Yahweh, 'when I will restore the fortunes of My people Israel and Judah.' Yahweh says, 'I will also bring them back to the land that I gave to their forefathers and they shall possess it.'

Zech.9:13  When I have bent Judah for me, filled the bow with Ephraim, and raised up thy sons, O Zion, against thy sons, O Greece, and made thee as the sword of a mighty man. 14  And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.

Zech 10:8-10 I will strengthen the house of Judah, and will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them back, because I have had compassion on them; and they will be as though I had not rejected them, for I am Yahweh their Elohim and I will answer them. Ephraim will be like a mighty man, and their heart will be glad as if from wine; indeed, their children will see it and be glad, their heart will rejoice in Yahweh. I will whistle for them to gather them together, for I have redeemed them; and they will be as numerous as they were before. When I scatter them among the peoples, they will remember Me in far countries, and they with their children will live and come back. I will bring them back from the land of Egypt and gather them from Assyria; and I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon until no room can be found for them.


89  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:The Dragon (satan) on: July 21, 2003, 01:32:26 PM
Have they not become 'one in Christ'?

You cant refer to 'Messianic Jews' as a distinct group and also support the unity of the faith. Iether we are made 'one the Spirit'  or  there are division along racial and ethnic lines.

H

Hmmmmm.....I can't, but the Bible can, or did you bother to read the scripture given.
90  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:The Dragon (satan) on: July 20, 2003, 10:21:14 AM

Jews have the 'testimony of Jesus Christ'?

Obviously individual jews, Paul springs to mind, have this testimony.  But the vast majority do not and have niether the Father nor the Son. And you of course know anyone who teaches Jesus is not the Messiah is antichrist.

Hitch

There are lots of Messianic Jews. Israel is the church, and the new covenant is to:

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

There are very interesting promises given to the houses together and seperately - also they are to be reunited before the end.

Ezekial 37:16  Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17  And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

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