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1  Theology / General Theology / Re:Religious tolerance on: December 22, 2003, 10:06:05 PM
You 'speak' with much pride and authority on your own forum. Is there anything that you've said there that you don't believe or that you're ashamed of?

Oh really?  Pride huh?  Ashamed of?  No way!  Just curious of your reasons behind doing what you did, although I suspect I know...

It was driven out of love for the Christians on this board who may have felt that you had stumbled in here quite by accident.

Why would anyone think that?  I never said that was the case.  In fact, I was never asked.  I have been popping in and out of here for a while.  And yeah, right, did it out of love for the others on here.  Who do you think you are kidding?

I said nothing in that quote that is anything different than what I have been saying here.  So again, what is your intent?  TO try to discredit another person to make yourself look better.  That wouldn't surprise me one bit.

PS - the "board" I was speaking of was not this board, whether that will have any merit or not or whether you care to believe me or not.  Doesn't really matter.

I have strong convictions in what I believe as some of you have strong convictions in what you believe.  Some of you have gone as far as calling me and all other Roman Catholics the "anti-christ" and we have been called a "cult" and many other nasty things.  So what of it?

Again, I have nothing to hide.  My beliefs I wear on my sleeve.  You can cruise my message board all you want.  Doesn't prove I have been "deceptive" on this board one bit.  But, then again, many of your arguments fall flat so this isn't any different!
2  Theology / General Theology / Re:Christian?? - Saved?? on: December 22, 2003, 09:30:43 PM
So there you have it, you disagree with the scripture

LOL!  Gotta love it!

Ya know if we were fellow Protestants and we disagreed with *your* interpretation of Scripture, Michael and I could break apart and form a *new* Protestant denomination based on how *we* interpret the Sacred Scriptures!

Tell me....if *you* intrepret those passages one way and tell us that "the Holy Spirit has guided your interpretation" and Mr. Joe Smith says, "I disagree, *I* intrepret them a different way and *I* too am under the guidance of the Holy Spirit."  BUT WAIT, then there is Mrs. Joan Black and she says, "No, you are both wrong, the Holy Spirit has guided *me* in a different interpretation of those passages."

What do we have here folks?  Chaos!  Confusion!  And alas, three MORE Protestant denominations!

Without the proper teaching authority ESTABLISHED by Jesus Christ in St. MAtthew's Gospel chapter 16, you have chaos!

It is exactly like if our country got rid of all authority and let "every man for himself".  COme on, you know it would never last.  It would be mass chaos.  Exactly what you Prots have!  That's what happens when you turn away from the established authority Jesus established.
3  Theology / General Theology / Re:Christian?? - Saved?? on: December 22, 2003, 09:23:20 PM
Curious to me that none of you will say yes or no.  This means you are not certain of what the answer is.

Is it ok to say "This person is saved, and that person is not saved?"

Either you don't know the answer (which doesn't surprise me) or you don't want to say because by doing so you will be admitting to the sin of presumption.

I gather the latter.

No need to answer now.  I get your point.  You are hiding behind your doctrine (wait, which of the 33,000+ Protestant denominational doctrines would that be??) and giving me a typical Fundamentalist response which is a NON-ANSWER.

PRaise God I am Catholic and remember these words from 1 Peter 3:15 "15 But sanctify the Lord Christ in your hearts, being ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you."

Apparently you are not "always ready" huh?
4  Theology / General Theology / Re:Am I the only one.... on: December 22, 2003, 07:39:45 PM
I think the question that was so *tactlessly* asked was Am I the only one that thinks that calling the RCC the first church that was started by Jesus is utterly retarded?

If I might demonstrate for you:
* St. Peter (32-67), Matthew 16:18
* St. Linus (67-76), 2Timothy 4:21
* St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
* St. Clement I (88-97), Philippians 4:3
* St. Evaristus (97-105)
* St. Alexander I (105-115)
* St. Sixtus I (115-125)
* St. Telesphorus (125-136)
* St. Hyginus (136-140)
* St. Pius I (140-155)
* St. Anicetus (155-166)
* St. Soter (166-175)
* St. Eleutherius (175-189)
* St. Victor I (189-199)
* St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
* St. Callistus I (217-22)
* St. Urban I (222-30)
* St. Pontain (230-35)
* St. Anterus (235-36)
* St. Fabian (236-50)
* St. Cornelius (251-53)
* St. Lucius I (253-54)
* St. Stephen I (254-257)
* St. Sixtus II (257-258)
* St. Dionysius (260-268)
* St. Felix I (269-274)
* St. Eutychian (275-283)
* St. Caius (283-296)
* St. Marcellinus (296-304)
* St. Marcellus I (308-309)
* St. Eusebius (April-August 309 or 310)
* St. Miltiades (311-14)
* St. Sylvester I (314-35)
* St. Marcus (January-October 336)
* St. Julius I (337-52)
* Liberius (352-66)
* St. Damasus I (366-83)
* St. Siricius (384-99)
* St. Anastasius I (399-401)
* St. Innocent I (401-17)
* St. Zosimus (417-18)
* St. Boniface I (418-22)
* St. Celestine I (422-32)
* St. Sixtus III (432-40)
* St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61)
* St. Hilarius (461-68)
* St. Simplicius (468-83)
* St. Felix III (II) (483-92)
* St. Gelasius I (492-96)
* Anastasius II (496-98)
* St. Symmachus (498-514)
* St. Hormisdas (514-23)
* St. John I (523-26)
* St. Felix IV (III) (526-30)
* Boniface II (530-32)
* John II (533-35)
* St. Agapetus I (535-36)
* St. Silverius (536-37)
* Vigilius (537-55)
* Pelagius I (556-61)
* John III (561-74)
* Benedict I (575-79)
* Pelagius II (579-90)
* St. Gregory I (the Great) (590-604)
* Sabinian (604-606)
* Boniface III (February-November 607)
* St. Boniface IV (608-15)
* St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I) (615-18)
* Boniface V (619-25)
* Honorius I (625-38)
* Severinus (May-August 640)
* John IV (640-42)
* Theodore I (642-49)
* St. Martin I (649-55)
* St. Eugene I (655-57)
* St. Vitalian (657-72)
* Adeodatus (II) (672-76)
* Donus (676-78)
* St. Agatho (678-81)
* St. Leo II (682-83)
* St. Benedict II (684-85)
* John V (685-86)
* Conon (686-87)
* St. Sergius I (687-701)
* John VI (701-05)
* John VII (705-07)
* Sisinnius (January-February 708)
* Constantine (708-15)
* St. Gregory II (715-31)
* St. Gregory III (731-41)
* St. Zachary (741-52)
* Stephen II (March 752)
* Stephen III (752-57)
* St. Paul I (757-67)
* Stephen IV (767-72)
* Adrian I (772-95)
* St. Leo III (795-816)
* Stephen V (816-17)
* St. Paschal I (817-24)
* Eugene II (824-27)
* Valentine (August-September 827)
* Gregory IV (827-44)
* Sergius II (844-47)
* St. Leo IV (847-55)
* Benedict III (855-58)
* St. Nicholas I (the Great) (858-67)
* Adrian II (867-72)
* John VIII (872-82)
* Marinus I (882-84)
* St. Adrian III (884-85)
* Stephen VI (885-91)
* Formosus (891-96)
* Boniface VI (April 896)
* Stephen VII (896-97)
* Romanus (August-November 897)
* Theodore II (November-December 897)
* John IX (898-900)
* Benedict IV (900-03)
* Leo V (July-December 903)
* Sergius III (904-11)
* Anastasius III (911-13)
* Lando (913-14)
* John X (914-28)
* Leo VI (May-December 928)
* Stephen VIII (929-31)
* John XI (931-35)
* Leo VII (936-39)
* Stephen IX (939-42)
* Marinus II (942-46)
* Agapetus II (946-55)
* John XII (955-63)
* Leo VIII (963-64)
* Benedict V (May-June 964)
* John XIII (965-72)
* Benedict VI (973-74)
* Benedict VII (974-83)
* John XIV (983-84)
* John XV (985-96)
* Gregory V (996-99)
* Sylvester II (999-1003)
* John XVII (June-December 1003)
* John XVIII (1003-09)
* Sergius IV (1009-12)
* Benedict VIII (1012-24)
* John XIX (1024-32)
* Benedict IX (1032-45)
* Sylvester III (January-March 1045)
* Benedict IX (April-May 1045)
* Gregory VI (1045-46)
* Clement II (1046-47)
* Benedict IX (1047-48)
* Damasus II (July-August 1048)
* St. Leo IX (1049-54)
* Victor II (1055-57)
* Stephen X (1057-58)
* Nicholas II (1058-61)
* Alexander II (1061-73)
* St. Gregory VII (1073-85)
* Blessed Victor III (1086-87)
* Blessed Urban II (1088-99)
* Paschal II (1099-1118)
* Gelasius II (1118-19)
* Callistus II (1119-24)
* Honorius II (1124-30)
* Innocent II (1130-43)
* Celestine II (1143-44)
* Lucius II (1144-45)
* Blessed Eugene III (1145-53)
* Anastasius IV (1153-54)
* Adrian IV (1154-59)
* Alexander III (1159-81)
* Lucius III (1181-85)
* Urban III (1185-87)
* Gregory VIII (1187)
* Clement III (1187-91)
* Celestine III (1191-98)
* Innocent III (1198-1216)
* Honorius III (1216-27)
* Gregory IX (1227-41)
* Celestine IV (October-November 1241)
* Innocent IV (1243-54)
* Alexander IV (1254-61)
* Urban IV (1261-64)
* Clement IV (1265-68)
* Blessed Gregory X (1271-76)
* Blessed Innocent V (January-June 1276)
* Adrian V (July-August 1276)
* John XXI (1276-77)
* Nicholas III (1277-80)
* Martin IV (1281-85)
* Honorius IV (1285-87)
* Nicholas IV (1288-92)
* St. Celestine V (July-December 1294)
* Boniface VIII (1294-1303)
* Blessed Benedict XI (1303-04)
* Clement V (1305-14)
* John XXII (1316-34)
* Benedict XII (1334-42)
* Clement VI (1342-52)
* Innocent VI (1352-62)
* Blessed Urban V (1362-70)
* Gregory XI (1370-78)
* Urban VI (1378-89)
* Boniface IX (1389-1404)
* Innocent VII (1406-06)
* Gregory XII (1406-15)
* Martin V (1417-31)
* Eugene IV (1431-47)
* Nicholas V (1447-55)
* Callistus III (1445-58)
* Pius II (1458-64)
* Paul II (1464-71)
* Sixtus IV (1471-84)
* Innocent VIII (1484-92)
* Alexander VI (1492-1503)
* Pius III (September-October 1503)
* Julius II (1503-13)
* Leo X (1513-21)
* Adrian VI (1522-23)
* Clement VII (1523-34)
* Paul III (1534-49)
* Julius III (1550-55)
* Marcellus II (April 1555)
* Paul IV (1555-59)
* Pius IV (1559-65)
* St. Pius V (1566-72)
* Gregory XIII (1572-85)
* Sixtus V (1585-90)
* Urban VII (September 1590)
* Gregory XIV (1590-91)
* Innocent IX (October-November 1591)
* Clement VIII (1592-1605)
* Leo XI (April 1605)
* Paul V (1605-21)
* Gregory XV (1621-23)
* Urban VIII (1623-44)
* Innocent X (1644-55)
* Alexander VII (1655-67)
* Clement IX (1667-69)
* Clement X (1670-76)
* Blessed Innocent XI (1676-89)
* Alexander VIII (1689-91)
* Innocent XII (1691-1700)
* Clement XI (1700-21)
* Innocent XIII (1721-24)
* Benedict XIII (1724-30)
* Clement XII (1730-40)
* Benedict XIV (1740-58)
* Clement XIII (1758-69)
* Clement XIV (1769-74)
* Pius VI (1775-99)
* Pius VII (1800-23)
* Leo XII (1823-29)
* Pius VIII (1829-30)
* Gregory XVI (1831-46)
* Bl. Pius IX (1846-78)
* Leo XIII (1878-1903)
* St. Pius X (1903-14)
* Benedict XV (1914-22)
* Pius XI (1922-39)
* Pius XII (1939-58)
* Bl. John XXIII (1958-63)
* Paul VI (1963-78)
* John Paul I (August-September 1978)
* John Paul II (1978-)

How far can you trace your "Protestant denomination" back?  I will venture to say, not so far.
5  Theology / General Theology / Re:Am I the only one.... on: December 22, 2003, 07:33:34 PM
is utterly retarded?

First of all, try using some words that may not potentially be offensive to those people reading that may have sisters/brothers/family members and/or friends who may be physically or mentally retarded.

Do christians talk like that?  I didn't think so; at least until I came here (no, I take that back, the Pastors I talk with via email are just as bad - if not worse...go figure.)
6  Theology / General Theology / Re:Christian?? - Saved?? on: December 22, 2003, 07:30:37 PM
Try answering my question.  THe fact that you continually avoid it and use diversion tactics by answering a question with a questions shows you to be very weak theologically.  Why are you afraid to answer the question?

I repeat AGAIN:

Is it ok and right to say that this person is "saved" and this person is not "saved"?  Why not answer this question. Answering a question with a question and no clarification is weak.
7  Theology / General Theology / Re:Christian?? - Saved?? on: December 22, 2003, 04:41:58 PM
Are you saying that you have no idea what to tell someone about how to be saved without using man's denominational tags and labels?

THis was not the question was it?

I am saying that *I* will never look at a person, even someone I know well, that either
A) Yes he is saved or
B) No he is not saved he is lost.

For who am I to say what is in someone's heart.  A person can claim to be "saved" and have "assurance" of said salvation and turn away from God at any moment and deny Him.  So, I will never "know" what's in a person's heart.  Therefore, you CANNOT know if a person is "saved" or not.

Is it ok and right to say that this person is "saved" and this person is not "saved"?  Why not answer this question. Answering a question with a question and no clarification is weak.
8  Theology / General Theology / Re:Religious tolerance on: December 22, 2003, 03:11:26 PM
A4C - are you capable of making a thought all by yourself or do you feel more secure cutting and pasting anti-Catholic trash?  Just wondering.

Is there something you want to discuss?  Justification and salvation?  Start a new thread and try using your own thoughts.
9  Theology / General Theology / Re:Christian?? - Saved?? on: December 22, 2003, 02:31:11 PM
There are a ton of labels people keep tacking onto themselves and others. If a person sincerely made the following statement, would they be a Christian and Saved?

You are asking us to determine if, based on what you wrote after this statement, a person would be considered a christian and/or saved.

I am answering your question by saying this question HAS NO DEFINITIVE ANSWER because we CANNOT and SHOULD NOT judge another person as being saved or not.  SO this is not diverting the topic at all.  It's answering your question which is more I can say for you who refuse to answer mine.
10  Theology / General Theology / SincereHEart! on: December 22, 2003, 02:15:20 PM
My "ministry" has nothing to do with this board.  Because I am a former Independent Fundamental Baptist, I write to Baptist Pastors in hopes that they will convert, yes.  I do this out of strong conviction in what I believe.  I do this because I used to be a part of what they believe and feel strongly driven to show them misunderstandings in their anti-Catholicism.  I have dealt with so much hatred from these men that call themselves "Pastors".  I have shuddered at some of the things they have called me and called other Catholics.  There is nothing wrong with evangelizing whatsoever and if this is where the Lord is leading me, then I shall follow, even if I receive abuse and foul language, filthy anti-Catholic jokes and all.  I will take it for the sake of my Lord!

So what of it?  Do you think I am "hiding" something?  I think it's pretty clear when I post here that I am trying my hardest to show the Truth in the Catholic Church and help lift the veil of anti-Catholicism and educate.  And yes, if any of you do convert to the One True Church that Jesus CHrist established (matthew 16) than Praise God.  At least I am evangelizing and "witnessing" and not practicing hate!  I asked for prayers for that pastor because he was unbelievably hateful to me and I couldn't understand how he could call himself a shepherd of a flock.  

You would think all of you would be on the same mission in trying to convert Catholics if you truly believed what you said you believe, but no, most of what I see is you all trying to disprove CAtholicism through hate and bias and NOT witnessing to what you call truth.

Sincere heart - what was your purpose in "exposing" what you did?  What was your intent behind it?  Was this out of charity and love or was this to humiliate and turn people away from me?   I see this a lot on this board and it's really quite sad.  Why not give me a straight answer as to why you felt the need to do that and was it driven out of love for another person?
11  Theology / General Theology / Re:Christian?? - Saved?? on: December 22, 2003, 01:56:18 PM
Petro - why not answering my question directly instead of hiding behind your verse slinging mannerisms and anti-Catholic inuendos hmm?

Is it ok to say that one person is saved or another is not?  YES OR NO!
You are such a typical prototype of born again christians and anti-Catholics in your avoidance and diversion tactics.

Just answer the question!
12  Theology / General Theology / Re:Christian?? - Saved?? on: December 22, 2003, 11:39:28 AM
yet he himself is judged of no man

Do you agree (yes or no) that you cannot judge another man's heart?  Do you agree you cannot say "this man is saved, yet this man is not."?  DO you agree that it is not up to MAN to say whether a person is saved or not?
13  Theology / General Theology / Re:Christian?? - Saved?? on: December 22, 2003, 11:12:50 AM
St. Matthew 7:1-6

1 Judge not, that you may not be judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why seest thou the mote that is in thy brotherís eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye? 4 Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brotherís eye. 6 Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you.


Do not put yourselves in a position to judge another man's HEART or salvation.

If you have the Holy SPirit residing in you, He will keep you from being deceived!!!  It is not up to you to determine who is and who is not!  THIS IS PRESUMPTION and THIS IS SINFUL!

 Definition:   [n]  a kind of discourtesy in the form of an act of presuming; "his presumption was intolerable"
[n]  audacious (even arrogant) behavior that you have no right to; "he despised them for their presumptuousness"
[n]  (law) an inference of the truth of a fact from other facts proved or admitted or judicially noticed [n]  
an assumption that is taken for granted  
  Synonyms:   assumption, effrontery, given, precondition, presumptuousness
14  Theology / General Theology / Re:Christian?? - Saved?? on: December 22, 2003, 10:41:22 AM
First of all, no one has any right to judge another's "salvation" or not.  This is the sin of presumption for which all of you will answer for.

I never agreed with this and avoided at all costs judging someone else's salvation, even when I was a baptist, when someone would tell me, "well pray for him, he's not saved" or "praise God, this person just got saved"!

NO ONE KNOWS THE HEART OF A MAN except God Almighty.  You should NEVER judge another's man heart!!
15  Theology / General Theology / Re:Religious tolerance on: December 22, 2003, 10:32:59 AM
Don't tell me you're a Traditionalist...  Had a good ol' Latin mass to day, did ya?

Why yes, of course I am.  I love the Traditional Latin Mass. Wink
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