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1  Theology / Debate / Re: God Created Adam Sin-ful on: November 23, 2012, 09:49:36 AM
Yes, James is talking about being tempted. Even Jesus was tempted. The difference between Adam and Jesus in this is that Jesus did not fall to temptation and Adam did. As was said, sin entered into the world at the time that Adam fell to temptation, the disobedience to God. As scripture says it was then and then only that death entered the world'

Rom 5:19  For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

And yes you are playing semantics twisting words to suit your theology. As the word is the same word used in Genesis when speaking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Adding adjectives to the word as you are doing does change it's meanings somewhat. Scripture does not say 'good enough' it simply says good. It was the disobedience, the eating of the forbidden fruit, that brought sin and death into the world and "many were made sinners".

As nChrist said you need to do some more studying.

So Jesus was born after His kind (Adam) and the only difference was that Jesus was able to refuse the temptation that Adam succumed to? BUT Adam was not Jesus' Father. This means that Jesus was sinless and unable to sin. He was holy and sin does not come from holy. Sin comes from sin-ful, or sinner.

You can't interpret Scripture using the translation. Even in English the word "good" has many definitions. But in Genesis the word good does not mean morally good, or perfectly good, it means godd as in "to specifications." You cannot say morally good because that's taking a great big leap into heresy.

Adam disobeyed because he was a sinner. If Adam was righteous he would not have disobeyed. Jesus, the Second Adam, PROVES this. If Adam was holy he would not have disobeyed. The Second Adam, Jesus Christ, PROVES this. Jesus was holy. Jesus was righteous. Jesus did not sin because sin DOES NOT come from righteous. Sin DOES NOT come from that which is holy.

Adam was not righteous. Adam was not holy. Adam was created sin-ful, or missing the mark of the glory of God.

There is only ONE God.

Many really do not understand this.
2  Theology / Debate / Re: God Created Adam Sin-ful on: November 22, 2012, 07:38:24 PM
Your little word game of semantics means nothing. Nobody said that Adam was God, but Adam was NOT a sinner until he disobeyed God. You need to read and study your Bible. Start with what you've already been given. This is Bible Basics and shouldn't be causing any mature Christian a problem.
As I said, if Adam wasn't a sinner until he sinned, then he was sinless?

No, Adam was not sinless. He was sin-ful. He was created falling short of the glory of God.

He sinned because he was a sinner.

There is only ONE God.
3  Theology / Debate / Re: God Created Adam Sin-ful on: November 22, 2012, 12:07:12 PM
Quote
On the contrary, nChrist did in fact answer your question. Adam was created without sin. That is why he said, "No, Adam was not created sinful." Really a very plain and simple answer to your question that you asked yet again. If you can't understand that then it is obvious why you don't understand scripture either.

Jas 1:13  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14  But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16  Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Jas 1:17  Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

James is talking about being tempted, and God does not entice or tempt His creation to outright sin against Him, but Adam was already sin-ful. There is only One God. And if not sin-ful, then Adam was sinless and would not have sinned. The Second Adam, Jesus Christ, PROVES this. Jesus Christ was sinless and did no sin neither was guile found in His mouth. There are no degrees of holiness or sinlessness. One is either sinless or sin-ful. And since sinlessness is the nature and attribute of God, there is only ONE God, and Adam did not possess any deific attributes or nature of God. Christ, the Second Adam, did.


Quote
If what you say is true then sin entered into the world when Adam was created when in fact God tells us that sin did not enter into the world until Adam disobeyed God.

Rom 5:18  Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19  For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
If we are sinners because we sin, then the Doctrine of Imputation is destroyed, for in the Doctrine of Imputation it is a nature swap. We are imputed Christ's righteous nature and Christ is imputed our sin-ful nature. It is NOT Christ is imputed our sinful acts, and we are imputed His righteous acts. For in this the nature remains. And Adam sinned because he was a sinner, NOT that he was a sinner because he sinned.


Quote
You are also saying that God has created that which is not perfect and yet scripture clearly tells us that what He created was "very good" not evil.

Gen_1:31  And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

So yes Adam was sinless until he yielded to temptation and disobeyed God. That is when sin entered into the world.

This "Good" does not mean "morally good," but "good to specification," or "good enough" (for purpose).

And if Adam was sinless like Jesus Christ then you are saying that sin can com e from holy and I will have to ask you, God is holy. How long before sin come from God if sin comes from holy and holy can sin.

No, I don't think you have really thought this through.

Adam was created sin-ful. Sin is defined in Scripture as "missing the mark." What is that "mark?"

The glory and perfection of God.

There is only ONE God.

4  Theology / General Theology / Re: SHOULD I SPEAK IN TONGUES on: November 21, 2012, 07:25:00 PM
As to the question in your title "Should I Speak in Tongues" the answer is:

Only if you have been gifted with a tongue and are under the anointing of the Holy Spirit to do so. And the Scripture gives instruction on its use.
5  Theology / Debate / Re: God Created Adam Sin-ful on: November 21, 2012, 07:21:24 PM
You need to go back and read my reply again. It was very simple.

Repeated:

No, Adam was not created sinful. You need to go back and read Genesis. Adam and Eve were not sinners until they disobeyed God. The "Fall of Man" because of disobedience is well-documented. I'm not going to debate this with you. What you've said is not Biblical and is, at best, resulting from misinterpretation.

I read it. It is incorrect. And you haven't answered my question: Was Adam sinless?
6  Theology / Debate / Re: God Created Adam Sin-ful on: November 21, 2012, 10:56:00 AM
No, Adam was not created sinful. You need to go back and read Genesis. Adam and Eve were not sinners until they disobeyed God. The "Fall of Man" because of disobedience is well-documented. I'm not going to debate this with you. What you've said is not Biblical and is, at best, resulting from misinterpretation.

Genesis 1:26-31 KJV  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.  27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.  28  And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.  29  And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.  30  And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.  31  And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.


So, Adam was sinless?
7  Theology / Debate / God Created Adam Sin-ful on: November 20, 2012, 07:58:19 PM
The Biblical definition of sin is literally "to miss the mark."

What is the "mark?"

The glory of God.

Adam and the woman (Eve) would have died in TIME even if they had not disobeyed God and eaten of the forbidden tree.
Since God cannot reduplicate Himself in Himself, anything and anyone not God falls short of His glory. Only the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit can stand before each other because there is only One God. Adam fell short of this glory. He was not eternal, he was not holy, he was not righteous. There is only One God, and since God cannot reduplicate Himself in Himself, anything and anyone not God would fall short of the glory that is God.

Romans 8:20
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,


This is speaking of man.

Adam was dying before he ate of the forbidden tree. In TIME he would have died whether or not he disobeyed God. Paul says:

Romans 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


The existence of the Law or command of God (Thou shalt not), is proof that man is a sinner. Paul needed not have committed the sin of lusting to have been deemed a sinner by the Law or command of God. The existence of a Law of God in the garden proves Adam sinned because he was a sinner, and not that he was a sinner because he sinned. Adam had not known disobedience except the law (or command) of God had said, "Thou shalt not eat of "it" (the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." Adam was created falling short of the glory of God, or sin-ful, because there is only One God, and God did not, nor cannot transfer nor reduplicate any of His attributes or nature into man.

Romans 3:23
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


It is not the acts of sin that make us a sinner. We are naturally born a sinner because again, there is only One God. And because of this the Doctrine of Imputation remains sound and intact.
8  Theology / Apologetics / Re: Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 1 on: June 12, 2012, 08:11:15 AM
Negative. Jesus Christ Himself says that Judas is lost - see above. What is your interest in pushing something so odd and definitely not supported by the Bible?
As I said, I address those passages of Scripture on a future post. The study is too long to put in one thread so I decided to break it up into parts.

Odd and not supported by the Bible? Am I not saying the same thing as the Bible? Jesus hand-picked the twelve disciples He called to Himself and chose as His twelve apostles. Scripture declares that Jesus "named them [His twelve] apostles."  My Biblical support? It's right there in Luke 6:12-13. I posted it. Do you see this?

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and callings of God are without repentance.

Do you believe this Word? Well, I do.

If the Holy Spirit says that Jesus "named them [twelve disciples] apostles," shall I say the opposite and say Judas was not an apostle? Shall I doubt what Jesus is quoted by the Holy Spirit as saying that Judas was an apostle when Scripture clearly says that Jesus named them [all twelve] apostles? There is no distinction. It does not say Jesus named eleven apostles and one false apostle, does it?
Nor shall I say that Jesus was lying, or make up excuse and deceive my eyes from what it reads.

Here is the Scripture. Tell me again if I am saying or not saying the same thing as God?

Luke 6:13
13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;


Jesus named the twelve He called and chose, apostles. I am saying the same thing. Jesus called and chose twelve [men] whom He also named apostles.

These twelve men were called and chosen "to be with Him" (implying intimacy) Mark 3:14, and Jesus named them apostles. Jesus is the Lamb of God when He does this (Jn 1:29), therefore, these twelve men are the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

9  Theology / Apologetics / Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 3 on: June 12, 2012, 07:47:05 AM
Because Jesus Promised him a throne along with the other eleven disciples:

Matthew 19:27-30
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.


For three years the twelve disciples lived, ate, slept, worked, recreated, with Jesus. And yes, for three years the twelve disciples followed Jesus to the very end of His life on earth. Twelve disciples and twelve thrones. Twelve apostles and twelve thrones. These twelve men being with Jesus have forsaken houses, brethren, sisters, father, mother, wife, children, land, and as the Scripture say, "shall receive an hundredfold and shall inherit everlasting life."

"In the regeneration," or when Jesus restores all things and sits in the throne of His glory, that "ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

It's interesting that in the four gospels Judas is listed last where the apostles are named.

It's just a thought, but although listed last in Scripture on this side of glory, is Judas now the first on "that side" of glory?

Mark 10:28-31

Luke 18:28-30

10  Theology / Apologetics / Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 2 on: June 11, 2012, 11:34:31 PM
Because the Scripture tells me that he is.

The Scripture, both the Old Testament and the New Testament is Authored by the Holy Spirit. He is the inspiration behind the men whom He used to get God's Word across to His people. The Scripture reveals to us among other things the Creator God that brought all this that we see, and this that we do not see into existence. The "among other things" the Scripture contains are the thoughts of God as well as His Word to His people in the things they must know in order to live an ordered and holy and righteous life before Him. The Scripture tells us what God thinks about sin, man, woman, marriage, children, obedience, holiness, righteousness, about government, homosexualism, idols, creation, salvation, repentance, conversion, being born again, angels, wisdom, everything that His people can and will be involved in while they live a life here on earth. And since such things are revealed in Scripture and contain the will and thoughts of God it is what Paul called the Mind of Christ.

We find this doctrine and understanding for this in 2 Timothy among others:

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


The Scripture, the Word of God, is given first and foremost for doctrine (teaching). Second, when doctrine is being ignored or rejected, or for some reason difficult to grasp then the Scripture is also profitable for reproving and then for correction. The Scripture is given by inspiration of God for instruction in righteousness so that the man (and woman) of God may be throughly furnished unto ALL good works.

But what does all this have to do with Judas Iscariot?

It has everything to do with Judas. For one, the Holy Spirit who Authored the Scriptures goes to great lengths in letting us know that He not only called and elected him to be an apostle, but that he is an apostle that was chosen in the same capacity as the other eleven, thus making twelve men given command of their Lord for the service. It is the Holy Spirit who constantly remarks and reminds us that Judas is one of the twelve chosen of Christ to "be with Him" (Mk. 3:14) and to be an apostle of the Lamb. One cannot but see the Holy Spirit telling us so we do not forget in spite of anything and everything else that Judas is of the twelve men chosen by Christ in His service. A true apostle.

Take a read:

Matthew 11:1
1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities.


Do you see the ownership? The Holy Spirit says these twelve disciples are "his" (Christ's).

The Holy Spirit constantly reminds us that Judas is indeed "one of the twelve" apostles. This speaks of inclusion, not exclusion.

Matthew 26:47
47 And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve...


Mark 14:10
10 And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve...


Mark 14:20
20 And he answered and said unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish.

Mark 14:43
43 And immediately, while he yet spake, cometh Judas, one of the twelve...

Luke 22:3
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Luke 22:47
47 And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve...

John 6:71
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.


And if that is not enough the same reminder to us is made of the Holy Spirit concerning Thomas:

John 20:24
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.


I'd say that there is a great significance in this. For the Holy Spirit to keep repeating Himself about Judas being one of the twelve is important and we should take notice of it. We should receive it. It is the Word of God.
How many times must a King repeat Himself to His servants about something that He wants us all to know.

For me, all He has to do in order for me to get the message is to say it ONE time.

May God give me the grace to hear that one time.


11  Theology / Apologetics / Re: Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 1 on: June 11, 2012, 11:23:05 PM
John 17:12 KJV  While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Judas is the son of perdition.

John 6:64-71 KJV  But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.  65  And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.  66  From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.  67  Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?  68  Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.  69  And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.  70  Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?  71  He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

Yes, I understand your point. However, I address that Scripture in a separate post.
12  Welcome / About You! / Re: sonofHilkiah on: June 11, 2012, 11:20:17 PM

Welcome to Christians Unite - we're happy to have you with us.
Thank you, nChrist. I appreciate the email greet and again, here.
I look forward to interacting with you.
Have a good day out there and stay strong.
13  Theology / Apologetics / Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 1 on: June 11, 2012, 06:50:05 PM
Because the Scripture tells me that he is.

His Calling and Election:

Luke 6:12-16
12 And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.
13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;
14 Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew,
15 Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes,
16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.


Jesus goes up to a mountain to pray to His Father. He spends all night in communion with God and returns when it is day. Jesus calls unto Him His disciples. And of them He chose twelve men whom He also named apostles.

Twelve apostles. Not eleven apostles and one false apostle. Twelve apostles. And Jesus named them apostles. Here is the calling and the election of twelve men that will be with Jesus until His arrest and crucifixion. Peter was called and elected in the same capacity as all the others. Judas was called and elect in the same capacity as James. There is no distinction in the calling and election of these twelve men. And if Jesus named them all apostles, then they are His apostles, and the gifts and calling of God is without repentance (Rom. 11:29).

Do you believe in calling and election? Here, Jesus calls and elects Judas to "be with Him" (Mk. 3:14), and for three years Judas is with Jesus. I know Judas was a thief. Peter was a blasphemer. He cussed and cursed. Peter had a big mouth. Judas had big eyes and a big desire for monetary gain. Twelve men, all sinners, and in need of a Savior. I don't second-guess Jesus. He called twelve men and the Scripture says Jesus named them apostles. I believe in calling and election. I reject the false "free will" heresy in the Church. No man can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them. If there's no drawing, there's no coming. And if one is called of God and elect of God, then that alone is enough that through ones life the perseverence of the saint will be fulfilled. And there is nothing man can do to escape the call of God on their life, even if it lasts on earth only three years, as with Judas, or mere hours as with the thief on the cross next to Jesus.

I believe Judas is saved because Jesus called and elect him to be with Him, and by the mere fact that Jesus named Judas an apostle. A true apostle. An apostle of the Lamb (Jn. 1:29).

14  Welcome / About You! / sonofHilkiah on: June 11, 2012, 06:38:30 PM
I am 51 years old. I was born again on July 7, 1977 at the age of 16. I've been a born again believer longer than I have been "of the world." I am single. My interests are reading and studying Scripture. I am here for the forums.
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