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271  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re: The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church on: February 06, 2011, 01:50:30 PM
Dear Tom,

Thanks for your reply and I hope that your day is going well.  


God has not appointed us to wrath......namely His wrath.  So it is very important to identify where exactly God's wrath begins.

Christians have been subject to Satan's wrath since Christ was here.  His disciples and many of His followers were killed for the sake of their beliefs.  This has continued over time even to this day.  Those who are not God's children continue as children of the devil.....and subject to his influence. They have come against both Christians and Jews on numerous occasions.   Hence, this concept is nothing new and will continue until Christ returns and Satan is no longer prince of this world.  

In the end times, Satan will no longer have access to heaven......will be kicked out......and will be especially full of wrath knowing that his time is short.   (Rev. Chp 12)


Israel was in captivity for grievous sin and rebellion and Daniel was praying on behalf of his people Israel.  He was asking God how long the punishment would last........how long God would hide His face from them.  He was given the 70 weeks prophecy as an answer to his prayer.  The common view is that 69 weeks have past and the final week remains for the final seven years prior to Christ's millennial kingdom.  

Hence the 70 weeks was given to Daniel for Israel.  Whereas, the book of Revelations was given by Christ for the Church.  There are of course overlapping events that are shared in common between the 70th week and the Seals of Revelation......but we should be careful not to view them as one and the same......i.e. identical.


The first two seals of Revelation are actually a bit vague and could have been broken many years ago.  We do not actually have a specific identifier until the 3rd Seal.... namely a day's wages for a loaf of bread.


The following terms are man-made expressions that are not found in the bible:   "The Tribulation Period"   "The Great Tribulation Period"    As such, we should not really be using such expressions either verbally or in our thoughts when discussing the final seven years.  The only biblical expression that defines the final 7 years is Daniel's 70th week.  

This might seem like a trivial matter but the fact is the many people learn about the final seven years from TV, books, human teachers, etc. before they even study it in depth from Scripture.  As such they incorporate the concepts into their minds (The Tribulation Period and The Great Tribulation Period) and when they do study the Word they will apply what they have accepted from human teachers when they come across a verse that includes the word:   tribulation.

We are however to translate Scripture in its most normal sense.  Tribulation would be a time of great difficulty..........the length of which is not specified.   To assign 3.5 or 7.0 years to the verse will result in error.  

For example, Jesus is talking about the end times in Matthew 24.  In verse 15 is talks about the abomination standing in the holy place.  He tells people to leave everything behind and flee to the wilderness.  A great persecution is about to begin.  

We then get to verse 21 and 22.  

"For then there will be great tribulation,  such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.  And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved;  but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened."

From verse 15, we know the we are at the middle of Daniel's 70th week.  A great persecution is about to begin by the man of evil.....as part of Satan's wrath.  Satan has been kicked out of heaven full of wrath.

Verse 21 contains the words "great tribulation."  A common error is to assign the final 3.5 years of Daniel's 70th week to it.  Many times this is done on an unconscious level.  However as mentioned earlier, it should just be translated as a time of great difficulty.......the length of which is not specified.  


Being thus freed up it is therefore easy to understand how day can shorten those days.......or put an end to them after a certain period of time.   The time is NOT fixed at 3.5 years.   God will stop the persecution when He decides to.  


Moving down to verse 29......."Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened......."

Here again, we just translate this in a normative sense with the words the are presented before us.  As such, we are not forced to place this event at the very end of Daniel's 70th week.  

God will stop the persecution........and then the sun will be darkened for an unspecified period of time.  It could be months of round the clock darkness.  The parallel description is Revelation's 6th Seal.  The great ones of the earth will hide if fear in caves.  Why?   Because they know the GOD'S WRATH is about to begin.

They say:   "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the WRATH OF THE LAMB.  FOR THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH HAS COME, AND WHO IS ABLE TO STAND?"   (Rev 6: 12-17)


This is the Day of the Lord.  It is actually much longer than a human 24 hour day.  It begins with the 7th Seal and ends after the Millennial Kingdom is over.  There are many aspects to it.  It is also talked about in 2 Peter Chapter 3 in reference to when God will burn up the earth and usher in a new one.  So as far as I can tell......the Day of the Lord appears to be approx. 1000 human years in duration.  


Just prior to the 7th Seal......the 144,000 of Israel are sealed from harm.  Notice that this is not done prior to the First Seal........because the First Seal is not part of God's Wrath.  The 144,000 are sealed from harm just prior to the 7th Seal (God's Wrath).  The 144,000 will remain on earth.  They are later mentioned during the 5th Trumpet Judgment.  The 5th Trumpet Judgment by the way is by itself 5 months in duration.


From the midpoint of Daniel's 70th week, my approx. estimate is that Satan's wrath will run it's course for several years before God puts and end to it.  Then God's wrath as described in the 7th Seal will go on for about one and one-half years.  Then Christ will return with His heavenly army.  

After the 144,000 of Israel are sealed from harm........a great multitude in heaven is talked about.  They are from all the nations.   They can wear robes and have palm branches in their hands.  They,  according to the Pre-Wrath position,  are the Christians who God has caught up just prior to unleashing His Wrath.  These are the elect (chosen ones) who angels have caught up as described in Matthew 24: 31.


Sadly many Christians will be caught off guard when persecution comes from the man of evil, false prophet, and their followers.  But God has said that when the abomination is placed in the holy place, we are to leave everything behind and flee to the wilderness.  He would not say this only to have those who listened to him perish in the wilderness.  He will supernaturally protect those who are allowing Him to fight the battle for them.  See Rev. 12: 13----17.  

He will take care of them just as He did for Israel as they were fleeing into the desert out of Egypt.  He will protect them, feed them, etc.  See also Psalm 27: 1-5 and Psalm 31: 20 and Psalm 91.

Satan has tried to destroy Israel at many times in history.  In my opinion, he has been trying to interfere with God's promise made to Abraham for his act of faith/obedience.  But God has always preserved a remnant and will continue to do so.  He will defend His holy name and promises.   See Gen 22.  

After the time of Jacob's trouble is over......Daniel's 70th week.....Daniel Chp 12.......God will put His Spirit inside those who He has preserved of Israel.  See Ezek Chps 34 through 39.  These are the physical descendant's of Abraham.  

The Church are the Gentiles who have been grafted into the natural branch after Israel rejected their Messiah.  This is the great Mystery.  See Romans Chps 9 through 11.

In Revelations Chp 12........the dragon is Satan.  The Woman is Israel.  The Child is Christ.  The Offspring are the Gentile Chistians who have been grafted in........the spiritual descendants of Abraham.


"Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child.  But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.  So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like f flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.  

"But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.  And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."


Psalm 27: 5     "For in the time of trouble He shall hide me in His pavilion;  in the secret place of His tabernacle He shall hide me;  He shall set me high upon a rock."


Psalm 31: 20    "You shall hide them in the secret place of Your presence from the plots of man;  you shall keep them secretly in a pavilion from the strife of tongues."



 
272  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church on: February 05, 2011, 07:53:59 PM
Not Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, nor Post-Trib.


If you want information about this position, I would be happy to share it with you. 
273  Welcome / About You! / New Member on: February 05, 2011, 07:46:34 PM
Hello.   I am brand new here.  I hope that you are having a pleasant day. 

The Lord removed my blinders in 1988 and that is when I gave my life to him.  He has been very kind and a steady flame for me ever since........even through some difficult trials.

May He comfort you and provide His guidance for you in the days ahead. 


Yours in Christ       David
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