St John saw the saints in vision thousands of years from his day and they didn't ignore the Commandments, or is there a "grace" spin to this verse too?:

{Note: the "AND" is not optional in this verse}

Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.[/u]

If this is talking about the Ten Commandments then we are all damned. No one, born again or not can keep the Ten Commandments. That is why God's Word calls them a ministry of condemnation and death.

1Jo 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Here is the commandment of God that brings life rather than death.

1Jo 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Even though you guys say that the 10 commandments were done away with at the cross I still feel that I should follow them, not as a way of salvation, but as a guideline (along with other teachings of Christ in the Bible) to live my life.  I feel that our lives have to stick out some way from the ways that the unsaved live.  And that way is to live the best way that I can be imitating Christ.  When ever anyone is turned off from Christianity it is usually by Christians that are only "Christian" on Sunday and then live a destructive life the other six days of the week.

The Israelites thought that they could obtain righteousness by the deeds of the law.  Romans 9&10 tells us they deceived themselves on this point and missed out on true righteousness that comes through faith in Jesus Christ.

Rom 9:30 “What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31  But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32  Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33  As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Rom 10:1  Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2  For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3  For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4  For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5  For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.”



Below is a quote from “Subverters of Souls”  http://www.nlbchapel.org/Subverters.htm


   “Law and grace cannot be mixed. Living by law will bring damnation and death, living by grace will bring life and a clear conscience before God. Those who teach righteousness through law keeping, subvert the souls of those who foolishly listen to them, those who teach salvation by the grace of God, bring the words of life to those who will listen to them.

Gal. 3:1 “O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?  2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?  3  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?  4  Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if [it be] yet in vain.  5  He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”

    Those who teach and hold that Christians must keep the law of Moses would do well to pay attention to the apostle Paul in the above verses. Paul is so amazed that those who were on the right path to begin with are now far removed from the true gospel and have instead embraced a false gospel of law keeping. How can this be? Paul calls the Galatians, who think that they have to keep the law of Moses, foolish (verse 1,3). Paul goes on to demonstrate their foolishness by asking a couple of rhetorical questions. Any one who teaches that Christians must keep the law of Moses would do well to answer these questions as well. Paul first asks:

“This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”

    This is a rhetorical question and the obvious answer is that anyone who is saved was saved by grace through faith and not by their own attempts at keeping the law of Moses as Eph. 2:8-10 declares. Paul then builds upon this question by asking another rhetorical question:

“Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? "

    In other words, are you so foolish in acknowledging that you were saved by faith to think that your sanctification  will now be made perfect by your fleshly attempts at keeping the law of Moses? Paul is teaching the Galatians by rhetorical questions that not only are they saved by faith but that their perfection is of faith as well. Our salvation is through faith and our Christian walk is by faith, not by the deeds of the law as false teachers would have you believe.

Gal. 3:11 “But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.”

[Pastor Roger]

Pastor Roger All the reference verses you gave [except 2Co 3:3] are talking about the ceremonial laws, rituals and ordinances, or the rabbinical law, not the 10 Commandments. To confuse these laws with THE LAW (the Decalogue) is a major muddle.

black eyed peas Christ's summing up of the 10 Commandments into two topic headings (Love of God and Love for Man) is revealed in the lay-out of the Tablets itself: the first tablet has the 4 Commandments are man's duty toward God's love, the second tablet is written man's love duties towards his fellow man. Christ was not making anything new, but summing things up clarifying the Original Commandments that Christ Himself gave on Mt. Sinai.
One of the major reasons He was put to death by the Jewish priest classes was because He kept The Law (see John 8:46, and the entire chapter of Matthew 5) , but disregarded the ceremonial laws, and spurned the rabbinical laws. Nowhere does Christ preach obedience to any laws but the 10 Commandments. The Sermon on the Mount is pure Commandments preaching!

To be free of the other priest-made laws and Hebrew national specific laws (circumcision, kosher laws, feast days, intercultural marriage, sickness laws, inheritance rules, Temple offerings and a million and one ceremonies) is a great boon for Christians; but there is nothing in the Commandments that are a burden, if we have the spirit of Christ within.

Pilgrim Paul is speaking of the ceremonial laws and the rabbinical laws, not Christ's own hand-written 10 Commandments. Obeying from the heart the Commandments is what grace is all about. If we let Christ lives in us, we do not steal, lie and kill, but love without compunction.


To all Which of the Ten Commandments do you think was "done away with" at the Cross??? Number 6? 

Or Commandment 2?

How about #7?

Hello Garden of Glory,

The Ten Commandments are the very heart of the Mosaic law. The division of the Mosaic law into moral, ceremonial etc. is a man made division not found in the Word of God. When trying to divide the law into parts you run into major issues.

1. Who decides what is moral law and what is Ceremonial?  Ask 100 people to divide the 600 + laws into different groups and you will get about as many different answers.

2. If it was only the ceremonial law and ordinances that Christ fulfilled on the cross and not the moral then  we are in deep trouble. That would mean that the blood of Christ would only cover the ceremonial law and ordinances. That means there is no sacrifice then for the breaking of the so-called moral law.  If Christ did not fulfill the moral law then most people could not go to heaven seeing that most would say the law against lying is a moral law.

3. When one breaks even the ceremonial law and ordinances doesn’t it then become a moral issue?

You agree that 2 Cor. 3 is speaking about the Ten Commandments. This chapter alone teaches that the Ten Commandments are done away with (verse 11), abolished (verse 13) and a ministry of condemnation and death (verses 7&9).

What do you do with all the saints who lived a righteous life and pleased God without the Ten Commandments, those from Adam to Moses? The Ten Commandments were given by Moses so those before him did not have it yet many of them were righteous and pleased God.

You ask which of the Ten Commandments were done away with at the cross. The answer is all Ten! They were replace by a far greater law, the law of Christ which is the law of love. The reason I do not practice stealing, lying, adultery etc. is not because the Ten Commandments forbid it, but because the greater law, the law of Christ forbids it.

Pilgrim

Hello Garden of Glory,

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. You say that the Ten commandments are a joy, yet 2 Cor. 3 calls them a ministry of death and condemnation. The very purpose of the Ten Commandment according to God's Word is to condemn and kill, on the other hand the New Covenant was given so one could have a clear conscience before God and eternal life. I often wonder why one would even want to be under a covenant that could only condemn them to death rather than a covenant which saves them. I believe if you would read it prayerfully seeking God's truth it will be a blessing to you. I have received many letters from others who at one time were under the teaching that Christians are under the Ten Commandments. After reading the article they had a hard time expressing their gratitude and joy at being set free from the bondage of false teaching on the Ten Commandments. Below I answer some of your objection from "Which Law are You Under?"  http://www.nlbchapel.org/which%20law.htm. God bless.

Pilgrim

"In the book of Romans the apostle Paul had to defend against the charge that to be without the law of Moses was a license to sin.

Rom. 6:1 “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”

Because Paul taught that one is saved by grace through faith rather than law keeping his enemies accused him of teaching that a Christian had a free license to sin. Paul gave the death blow to that argument in verse 1 of Romans 6. He went on to say:

Rom. 6:15 “What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”

Can God’s Word get any clearer that we are not under law but under grace (verse 15)? And can God’s Word get any clearer that because were are under grace and not the law that this is not a license for free sinning? True Christians do not practice sin because they follow the law of love which comes from the heart. Notice Paul says in verse 17 “but ye have obeyed from the heart”. Those who claim to be saved and continue living a life full of sin are false professors and their actions prove that they are still servants of sin rather than a servants of righteousness just as the above verses declare. Those who are truly saved obey from the heart out of love for God and mankind. As a result their righteousness far exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisees who were trying to be righteous by the deeds of the law.

Mat 5:20 “For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.”

    Those who insist that Christians are under the law of Moses apparently do not understand what a great burden this is. In Acts 15 the apostle Peter is speaking against the law keepers and had this to say about the law of Moses.

    This is what the law keepers said:

Acts 15:5 “But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses.”

    And here is what Peter said:

Acts 15:10 “Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?”

    Peter says that the law of Moses was an unbearable burden that neither they or their fathers were able to bear. If the apostles themselves could not bear the law of Moses what chance do we have? Peter said that those who taught that Christian have to keep the law of Moses were tempting God, a very serious sin. Those who teach that Christians have to keep the law of Moses are siding with the Pharisees of verse 6 and those who temp God (verse 10) and those who subvert souls (verse 24):

Acts 15:23 “And they wrote [letters] by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren [send] greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: 24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:”

    Notice that verse 24 for says it was the troublemakers who taught that Christians must keep the law of Moses and that the apostles themselves never gave such a commandment. Now lets look at the contrast in what the Lord Jesus Christ had to offer in Matthew 11.

Matt. 11:28 “Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light.”

    What the Lord is offering in Matthew 11 is just opposite of what the Bible says about the law of Moses in Acts 15. What the Lord offers is rest for the soul, an easy yoke and a light burden. What the law of Moses offered according to Acts 15 was an unbearable burden that was impossible to bear. Therefore they cannot be talking about the same thing. Jesus also said this about His commandments in 1 John 5.

1Jo 5:3 “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.”

    If Jesus was talking about the law of Moses here then we would have a major contradiction with Acts 15 which says that the law of Moses was an unbearable burden. Yet this verse goes right along with the words of our Lord in Matthew 11:28-30. The only possibility then is that the commandments that Jesus is talking about in 1 John are not the commandments of the Mosaic law but of a different law. If we look at the context of 1 John it is very easy to see what commandments the Lord is referring to in 1 John 5:3.

1Jo 2:3 “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. 9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.”

    Notice verse 5 talking about the love of God being perfected in a believer and in verse 10 the emphasis on loving a brother.

1Jo 3:22 “And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.”

`In verse 23 the Lord spells out exactly what His commandments are, “That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.” There is nothing even remotely suggesting that He is talking about the law Moses in these verses, rather the emphasis is on the law of love."

I want to keep all 10 commandments as found in Exodus 20:3-17.
WHY ?

It is not possible for you to keep the 10 commandments. Why?

Because you are man and man cannot keep even one of these commandments as God intended them to be kept, perfectly 100% of the time. One slip on any point and it is over.

I want to keep all 10 commandments as found in Exodus 20:3-17.
WHY ?

It is not possible for you to keep the 10 commandments. Why?

Because the Ten Commandments where only given to the children of Israel from Moses to the cross of Jesus. The Ten Commandments were never given to a gentile nation period. Even the fathers of Israel such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob etc. were not under the Ten Commandmenets.

Exo 19:1 “In the third month, when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai. 2  For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount. 3  And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel; 4  Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. 5  Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:”

Deu 5:1 “And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. 2  The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3  The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.”

I want to keep all 10 commandments as found in Exodus 20:3-17.
WHY ?

It is not possible for you to keep the 10 commandments. Why?

Because they have been done away with (2 Cor. 3:11), abolished (2 Cor. 3:13), and replaced by the New Covenant (Hebrew verses).

2Co 3:6 “Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7  But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8  How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9  For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10  For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11  For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12  Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

13  And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:”

Heb 7:18 “For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. 19  For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”

Heb 8:13 “In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”

Heb 10:9 “Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.”

I have written three articles that go in detail concerning the Ten Commandments and why they no longer apply. These articles will answer almost all the objections you can come up with if you have a heart for God’s truth. You can read them hear if interested:

 "Which Law are You Under?"  http://www.nlbchapel.org/which%20law.htm

“Subverters of Souls”  http://www.nlbchapel.org/Subverters.htm

“Comparing the Old Covenant with the New Covenant.”  http://www.nlbchapel.org/covenant.htm

Pilgrim

Actually, I believe the greatest attack against the Church takes place from within not from without such as the “The Da Vinci Code”. It is the wolves who enter not sparing the flock that I am concerned about.

Act 20:28 “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29  For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30  Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31  Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.”

Paul warned the saints for three years night and day with tears in his eyes over this threat. I am afraid the Church is filled with these wolves today. According to 2 Peter and Jude these wolves come in by stealth and are so intertwined with the true saints that they partake without fear in the most intimate parts of our gathering.

2Pe 2:1 “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction...

2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13  And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;”

Jud 1:4 “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ....

Jud 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. 12  These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;”

Even babes in Christ can easily discern “The Da Vinci Code” a mile away. It is those who are feasting with us without fear in the most intimate parts of our meetings that concern me. It is the spy within the Church, not the troublemakers on the outside who will be the more serious threat. The bigger the Church the bigger the threat.

Pilgrim

The Rapture of the Church has to take place before the mark of the beast because the antichrist cannot be revealed until the Church is raptured and the antichrist will be revealed before his mark is given to the world. Below is something I wrote years ago why I believe the church will be raptured before the antichrist is revealed.

 Here is why I believe the “Restrainer” of second Thess. 2 is the Holy Spirit.

First, we know the Restrainer is a person and not a force. According to verse 7 the restrainer is referred to as “He” two times. This also rules out the restrainer being a woman.

Second, the restrainer has to be powerful enough to restrain Satan who is the one who possesses  the “Son of perdition”. That eliminates man because the Scriptures teach that man is made lower than the angels which Satan was before the fall. Also Michael the arch angel did not fight Satan in his own strength when contending with him. Jude 1: 9 “Yet  Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.”  Michael’s victory over Satan was by the power of the Lord and not by his own strength. When man has victory over Satan it is the same way through the power of the Lord (Rev. 12:11). The only power that is powerful enough to prevail against Satan and his kingdom is God.

Third, John 16 shows the Holy Spirit was going to be sent to earth with a special purpose which involves all true believers in the Lord Jesus.

John 16:7 “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.  8  And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:  9  Of sin, because they believe not on me;  10  Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;  11  Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 13  Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.  14  He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of  mine , and shall shew [it] unto you.  15  All things that the Father hath are mine : therefore said I, that he shall take of  mine , and shall shew [it] unto you.”

Notice that Jesus had to depart in order that He could send us the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the third person of the God head and therefore as God He is omnipresent which means He is everywhere. So how could Jesus send us the Holy Spirit if the Holy Spirit was already here? He sent the Holy Spirit in a new capacity with a different purpose, a new agenda you might say. What was this new agenda? According to the above verses it was to (1) “reprove the world of sin”, (2) “and of righteousness”, (3) “and of judgment”. All these things work in restraining lawlessness wouldn’t you agree? It is interesting to see how the Holy Spirit would carry out this mission. According to the above passage the Holy Spirit is being sent to the believers in Christ (after the cross) to carry out this new agenda. According to John 14 & 15 he will set up residence in the believers for all eternity. It is by indwelling believers in Christ Jesus that the Holy Spirit will carry out this new agenda. So in order for the Antichrist to be revealed the Holy Spirit will have to be removed in this capacity. If the Holy Spirit is removed in this capacity then those who are indwelt by Him for this purpose will have to be removed as well, that is why the rapture of the church has to take place before the Antichrist is revealed. The Holy Spirit as promised was sent in this new capacity in Acts two at Pentecost. Right away we see the Holy Spirit fulfilling this new function through the preaching of the apostles and the result was that thousands turned from their wicked ways unto the Lord. I would say this left quite a dent in the kingdom of Satan and restrained his influence quite effectively in the three thousand souls who were saved by the first message of Spirit filled apostles. Wouldn’t you agree?

Pilgrim

Brother Dave Hunt has written a book dealing with this topic called “Judgement day! Islam, Israel and the Nations.” It is an excellent book which I highly recommend to all. You can listen to audio conversations chapter by chapter between Dave and Tom at this address http://www.thebereancall.org/radio/radio/2005/2005.htm starting at 8/7/2005 program #3305a.

Pilgrim

Hello Catty,

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Does your teacher hold to the serpent seed doctrine of a man by the last name Shepherd? It is the false teaching that the fruit Eve ate was not really fruit but an immoral relationship Eve had with Satan which produced Cain.

Pilgrim

Many times people will ask "What about those who never heard the gospel, is God just in sending them to hell?" I believe Cornelius in Acts 10 has the answer to that question. For those who are interseted you can hear the answers here http://www.nlbchapel.org/Audio.htm 

We can learn much about the gospel of God in Acts 10 and truly see that God is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9

Pilgrim

Hello arunangelo,

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is true that God hates divorce. Many of those who have gone through a divorce hate it as well.

Why do you think God divorce Israel seeing He hates it so much?

Jer 3:8 “And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.”

Have you ever wondered why the Word of God says Joseph was a JUST man when he planed on divorcing Mary when he thought she was unfaithful?

Mat 1:18 “Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19  Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.”

God bless
Pilgrim

Hello Blad, GKB,

The Bible teaches that when a person becomes a Christian that they are born of God and are a new creation. The Bible teaches that the part that is born again cannot sin and is incorruptible. I asked many people who believe a true Christian can lose their salvation what happens to the “New Man” when this happens. None have answered so far. Seeing that the “New Man” cannot sin and is incorruptible how can a true Christian lose their salvation? What happens to the “New Man” if a person truly could lose their salvation?

1Pe 1:23 “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.”

1Jo 3:9 “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

2Co 5:17 “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”

The part that God creates in us at our new birth is referred to as the new man.

Eph 4:24 “And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”

Col 3:10 “And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:”

Yet, while we live in these fleshly bodies there is a part of us that is prone to sin and in fact cannot even submit to God. Paul recognized this in the book of Romans.

Rom 7:15 “For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16  If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”

Rom 8:7 “Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8  So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”

This is why a true Christian who is involved in sin is most miserable. There is a part of him that continues to rebel against God if allowed control of the soul, and a part of him that seeks to serve God if allowed to control the soul. This is why victory in Christ is simple in doctrine (walk in the Spirit) yet sometimes difficult in practice. When we sin it is because we yield to the flesh rather than the Spirit. When we please God it is because we yield to the new man which walks in the Spirit. As long as a Christian remains in their fleshly body they will struggle with the flesh.
 
The wilful sin mentioned in Hebrews 10 is not talking about sin in general, but of a specific sin, that sin of apostasy if it were possible. Instead of teaching that one can lose their salvation the passage teaches just the opposite if rightly understood.

http://www.nlbchapel.org/heb6.htm

“Hebrews 10:26 “ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,  27  But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.  28  He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:  29  Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”

    The argument is something like this. If it were possible for a true Christian to sin willfully after receiving the gospel truth by rejecting it and therefore losing their salvation, there would be no hope of him ever getting saved again. The only thing awaiting him is the fiery indignation of God seeing that he has trodden under foot the Lord Jesus Christ and counted His blood by which he was saved an unholy thing. The only way of salvation is through the blood of Jesus and if a true Christian COULD reject this then there is no hope for him, seeing he rejected the only thing that could save his soul.

    The hypothetical is the only way I know of that allows these verses to fall in perfect harmony with the rest of Scriptures. I hope this may help some. May God open all of our eyes of understanding.”

If interested you can read the whole article here: http://www.nlbchapel.org/heb6.htm
 
Pilgrim

Amen! Tom.

Hello ggamble,

I am not protestant or Catholic. I am simply a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. My faith is not rooted in the creeds, doctrines and history of religious man, but in the Word Of God. Our practices are similar to what others would call Plymouth Brethren although I prefer to be called either brother or just Christian. For some strange reason Catholics and many Protestants feel that it is important to have a church history they can trace back for many centuries. I would guess that they mistakenly believe that the further back they can trace their religious  movement the more legitimacy it give to their religion. I am often asked how far back my church history goes. I show them my Bible and tell then my beliefs are traced to those who laid the foundation of the Church itself (the apostles and Jesus Christ). I do not need a religious institution with all its wild claims to add legitimacy to my faith, I have the very teachings of the apostles and God Himself and that is all I need.

As far as the reformation goes I see most of it in the light of Revelation 17:5

Rev 17:5 “And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.”

I personally believe that the “THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS” is the RCC. This verse tells us that this great religious whore is a mother and her offspring are religious harlots as well. So when I see religious movements that came from the RCC I am suspicious of them. When I examine the gospel taught by men like Luther and Calvin, and see that they embraced and taught a false gospel which includes baptismal regeneration I have no more use for them than I do for their religious mother the RCC. My faith stands on the Word of God not a religious institution or men who taught false gospels that damned souls rather than save them.

Luther, and many other famous religious leaders have written religious documents contrary to the Word of God. Many give these document vast authority in their religious institutions even to the point of making void the Word of God. Most of these documents are filled with serious error that brings harm to one soul rather than help. In my opinion they have no place in the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am reminded of the words of Jeremiah concerning the spiritual heath of the people in his day.

Jer 5:30 “A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; 31  The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?”

Many of these religious documents are filled with error and carry authority in many religious institutions, and sadly the people love to have it this way.

God bless

Pilgrim

Hello Pilgim,
Keeping in mind that the Book of Acts is an historical chapter. We are reading about Jews and Gentiles Accepting the mesaage they heard and then they were baptized. In Acts 2. 10 and 19 some spoke in tongues.
Some Christians call this experience of speaking in tongues today, a 'second blessing.'

The point of Acts 10 is that Cornelius and those with him received salvation before batism which clearly means that baptism is not part of the gospel of salvation like some believe.

pilgrim