[Wow, how many sides of this issue are you on?]

Blackeyedpea Wrote:

“Have you rightly applied the Word and seen it do exactly as God said it would consistently? Is the supernatural normal for you; for as one brother correctly said: “If you’re not supernatural, you’re superficial?” If Jesus thought it important to “confirm the Word with the accompanying signs”, what makes ANY man – Church leader or not – think HE has the right to teach that it is not important today?”

Wow, how many sides of this issue are you on?

Tell me; what is your response to your very own words? I would really like to hear it, if you dare to in fact answer it.

As for me, what I say as to signs in my life means less then nothing, for man is not the one testifying concerning Signs but God.

This is why I have said Accept it, Reject it or Refute it from the Scriptures.

For that is all this media is capable of conveying without the question of deception entering in to the equation.

[but then I have never claimed I had any supernatural power to begin with]

blackeyedpeas:

“I find it fascinating that each of you contradict yourself, contradict each other, and contradict the Holy Bible.”

You speak much about things of which you have no understanding.

As too my possessing supernatural power, you are in fact correct, I have none, but then I have never claimed I had any supernatural power to begin with, but of course what I actually say versus what you perceive I have said never has had very much in common.

The one who receives from the Holy Spirit anything is never the POWER only the temporary conduit or vessel used by God for His own purposes.

Those whom God chooses to use never have any power of their own, if they had any power of their own God would be unable to use them at all, God is the only Power in these transactions.

That is why a vessel must submit; surrender totally in order to be useful to Him.

Tell me how much Supernatural power did Balaam’s ass have? Num 22:20

For me to be but equal with Balaam’s ass, as a vessel useful to God, is not any type of insult, in fact it is an honor for at least Balaam’s ass demonstrated he had the adequate spiritual sense to know when God was in fact communicating with him. 

So those who claim supernatural powers and those who believe that others possess supernatural powers today or at any point in History are both wrong.

God is the only POWER and when He causes His POWER to manifest through an ass, a man or a bush none of these objects or beings has any power of their own for they are but vessels useful for His purpose.


“I find it fascinating that each of you contradict yourself, contradict each other, and contradict the Holy Bible”

Again you ASSUME something that does not exist in the post, as a matter of fact my Post specifically states that I agree with what it says and am in no way attempting to refute its content, my only desire was to offer a suggestion that might improve what was already an excellent offering

“Revelations of the Holy Spirit are always IMPOSSIBLE TO DESTRUCT TRUTH”

I FIND IT MOST TELLING that the Scriptures and the Truth you so vehemently claim to defend NEVER ONCE APPEAR IN YOUR ENTIRE POST.

But then I realize you are resorting to the same tactics as the religious leaders of our Lord’s time WHO ATTACKED THE MESSENGER WHEN THEY COULD FIND NO WAY TO ATTACK HIS MESSAGE.

But as the Scriptures testify this is how it would be.

Mat 10:25  It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
Mat 10:26  Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
Mat 10:27  What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

I am honored and humbled to have you testify as to my being a true disciple of the Master our Lord Jesus the Christ by attacking me rather then the message brought forth to you; thank you.  May God Bless and keep you.

[the Word of God never contradicts itself, or the nature, plans and intent of the Lord. Indeed, an understanding of God’s nature, His plans and intentions harmonizes everything in the Bible that appear as contradictions to the less scripturally astute. [See Numbers 23:19; 1 Corinthians 14:8]]

Defining the Parameters of Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth wrk I

1.   If a scripture clearly contradicts what we have been taught on any biblical subject, there is a problem with what we have been taught. All Biblical precepts, or a teachings on the Bible that are alleged to be a doctrines of the Church, flow in harmony throughout the Bible; the Word of God never contradicts itself, or the nature, plans and intent of the Lord. Indeed, an understanding of God’s nature, His plans and intentions harmonizes everything in the Bible that appear as contradictions to the less scripturally astute. [See Numbers 23:19; 1 Corinthians 14:8]

Over all I find your post a breath of fresh air and thank God for it.

Let me further state that I agree that the Scriptures can not oppose one another for any Kingdom that opposes itself will fall. Mt 12:25 Mar 3:24-25

I would how ever point out that God does, at least on the level of the Rational Mind, contradict Himself in the Scriptures and there are two significant cases that point this out in the NT.

John 6:53-71

After history unfolds on this side of the Cross there is no contradiction, but from the disciples perspective there was a major contradiction which our Lord refuses to address even when He has the opportunity to do so.

Now clear your mind of everything the NT reveals and for a moment place yourself in the shoes of not only the 12 inner circle disciples but also of the 120 outer circle disciples who also followed our Lord.

Did not the 120 outer circle disciples implement all of the parameters that are proposed to the LETTER? Yet they fell away.

Acts 10:10-20

Again without the NT in view place yourself in Peter’s mind set and conceive of the struggle, based on this set of parameters, you would have with this revelation from God.

Then imagine the Struggle Peter’s Jewish brethren had while following these parameters when Peter shared this little bombshell with them.

My point is that rational rules, rational precepts and rational conclusions that ignore the Overshadowing Sovereignty of God inevitability lead to a falling away.

For God never said “understand” and follow but rather “BELIEVE” and follow.

The rational mind while the major focus of the modern day Church is the weak link in our Walk with the Lord.

If we make the rational mind the major focus of our inquiry in our walk with the Lord we are being led by the Letter of the Written Word of God rather then by the Holy Spirit of God.  2nd Co 3:6 Rom 8:14

The Written Word of God is a marvel, a wonder and I am constantly Awed by its revelations but the Written Word of God only tells us What God has Said, What God has Done and What God will do.

But the Written Word of God tells us ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about what God is doing, Right this very Moment in your life or in mine.

God is the Great IAM that IAM, Exo 3:14; God is the God of this Present Moment and the only way we will ever know what the God of this Present Moment desires for us is to STOP and LISTEN INTENTLY to what He is saying to us right now this very moment, rather then endlessly reading about and endlessly talking about What God has Said, What God has Done and What God Will do.

Please do not misconstrue what I am saying; the Written Word of God is of tremendous Value to His children but the Written Word of God is not God and we need to stop treating it like it is God and get back to submitting ourselves to His direction rather then submitting ourselves to our own interpretation of what we THINK is His direction.


And as you acknowledge in parameter 7 of your post “Nothing that has not happened before will happen in the future and nothing that will happen has not already happened”

The fact God has done this two or more times in the NT means the odds are He will in fact do this again. For it is an effective way to separate the sheep from the goats or the tares from the wheat.

But if the parameters established do not acknowledge the SOVEREIGNTY of God over our rational understanding of the Written Word of God then we are no better off then the 120 disciples who fell away.

Please understand I am not attempting to argue with you or punch holes in what I consider a well thought out and well presented set of parameters with which I am, for the most part, in agreement.

I am simply pointing out where some additional consideration might be in order.

Then again perhaps i have simply anticipated where your study was to end up, if so i apologize.

[“We know from scripture that this is not true. Read Luke 16:22-28 and you will see the truth of this, if you can at all see the truth”]

QUOTE: “We know from scripture that this is not true. Read Luke 16:22-28 and you will see the truth of this, if you can at all see the truth”

Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24  And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


This is a parable and teaches us about something else entirely but as with all parables the surface elements used as symbols are also TRUE for God not only does not lie, God can not lie. Tit 1:2

But the point you hoped to make is invalid because this parables SETTING or the time frame of when it takes place is obvious from the Elements, within it.

This parable speaks about events taking place after the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT when all the UNSAVED have already been JUDGED and cast into the LAKE of FIRE and BRIMSTONE.

So your attempt to show that those in HELL, SHEHOLE, suffer and therefore the Saints of the OT are in some place called Abraham’s Bosom is invalid.


QUOTE: “Mat 27:52 speaks of the grave, the tomb, not any gates of hell”.

 
You misunderstand what is being spoken about in this verse let us look at the entire verse.

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept AROSE,

The GATES of HELL (Greek HADES-Hebrew-SHEHOLE) is not speaking about their graves or their Tombs as on this earth but rather about their AWAKENING from BEING BOUND IN THE SLEEP OF DEATH in SHEHOLE.

The English word AROSE in the above verse of Scripture means in the Greek to WAKEN or to ROUSE from SLEEP.

 In MAT 27:52 the word “GATES” is symbolic of the BINDING that holds all the occupants of SHEHOLE, HELL, in a STATE of ABSOLUTE SLEEP OR UNCONSCIOUSNESS.

Each spirit/soul imprisoned in SHEHOLE, HELL, has their own CELL or TOMB in which they are BOUND in DEEP SLEEP.

Each TOMB has a GATE which is Symbolic of the SPIRITUAL POWER, or LOCK that holds them in this STATE of SLEEP.

This is why our LORD uses the PLURAL word GATES when He says “the GATES of HELL shall not PREVAIL”; or OVERPOWER who HE is, THE VERY SON OF GOD.

When DEATH FAILED TO BIND our LORD in SLEEP all the GATES or LOCKS on the CELLS or TOMBS in HELL that contained His SAINTS, OPENED and they AWOKE FROM THEIR FORCED STATE OF SLEEP.

QUOTE: “We know from scripture that this is not true. Read Luke 16:22-28 and you will see the truth of this, if you can at all see the truth”

Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24  And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


This is a parable and teaches us about something else entirely but as with all parables the surface elements used as symbols are also TRUE for God not only does not lie, God can not lie. Tit 1:2

But the point you hoped to make is invalid because this parables SETTING, time frame, is after the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT when all the UNSAVED have already been JUDGED and cast into the LAKE of FIRE and BRIMSTONE which has only TWO occupants prior to the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT. Rev 19:20

So your attempt to show that those in HELL, SHEHOLE, suffer and therefore the Saints of the OT are in some place called Abraham’s Bosom is invalid.

[“If it does not match up with scripture without having to stretch the imagination of men then it is not a true revelation from God”.]

QUOTE: “If it does not match up with scripture without having to stretch the imagination of men then it is not a true revelation from God”.

 
I am a mere man and I suspect you are not dissimilar so if the One and Only True God of all the Universe and His Truth are unable, not only to stretch my imagination but in fact far exceed my imagination I would have serious doubts as to whom I was worshiping.

Who am I that I should be God’s judge as to what limit His Truth must conform?

Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For AS THE HEAVENS ARE HIGHER THAN THE EARTH, SO ARE my ways higher than your ways, and MY THOUGHTS THAN YOUR THOUGHTS.

Eph 3:20  Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly ABOVE ALL THAT WE ASK OR THINK, according to the power that worketh in us,


QUOTE: “If it does not match up with scripture…….. From what you are saying is that all of the saints were suffering the torments of hell, until Jesus released them. We know from scripture that this is not true. Read Luke 16:22-28 and you will see the truth of this, if you can at all see the truth.”


Suffering the TORMENTS of Hell?

I am quite surprised that you a, leader in the Church, who puts such great emphasis on the Word of God would actually be unaware that the Scriptures reveal that there are TWO Separate and Distinct ABODES for HELL.

While the first ABODE of HELL is active and receiving INMATES the SECOND ABODE of HELL is DORMANT awaiting God’s time to begin receiving inmates.

While both ABODES are PRISONS they could not be more different from one another.

Never are these TWO ABODES of HELL active at the same time for when the SECOND ABODE of HELL becomes active at the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT of GOD, the PRESENT ABODE OF HELL is imprisoned within it. REV 20:14    

You’re a man who seems to believe the Scriptures, let us look and see what they have to say about these TWO ABODES OF HELL.

In the Old Testament Scriptures Helll is the English translation of the Hebrew word Shehole, Strong’s H7585 and appears (57 times) in the Old Testament.

Shehole is translated (24 times) as (Hell), (31 times) as (Grave) and (2 times) as (Pit).

In all these cases it is speaking about the same place, Shehole, “THE WORLD OF THE DEAD INCLUDING ITS ACCESSORIES AND INMATES”

Shehole is the PRESENT HELL in use and received its first Inmate when Able was murdered by Cain and from ABEL to the CROSS it received all who have died upon this earth. NOTE: there are some exceptions which will not be addressed here.

Job 30:23 For I know that thou wilt bring me to death, and to the house appointed for all living.

In this World of the DEAD or as the Scriptures says THOSE WHO SLEEP, there is only DARKNESS because the Spirit of Death BINDS ALL spirit/soul inmates in a STATE of DEEP UNCONSCIOUSNESS from which they know nothing and can know nothing for they are TOTALLY UNCONSCIOUS or ASLEEP.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: BUT THE DEAD KNOW NOT ANY THING, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecc 9:10  Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, (SHEHOLE) whither thou goest.

That the spirit/soul in Shehole are ASLEEP or UNCONSCIOUS is further confirmed by our Lord Jesus the Christ in the New Testament.

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, OUR FRIEND LAZARUS SLEEPETH; but I go, that I may AWAKE HIM OUT OF SLEEP.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Mat 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshiped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Mat 9:23 And when Jesus came into the ruler's house, and saw the minstrels and the people making a noise,
Mat 9:24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.

In SHEHOLE, this World of the DEAD or of those who SLEEP, there is NO PUNISHMENT, NO TORTURE, NO FIRE or BRIMSTONE, only the ABSOLUTE DARKNESS of a DEEP UNCONSCIOUSNESS or DEEP SLEEP.

Shehole is a Holding Prison that BINDS the spirit/soul of those who have died in a DEEP SLEEP OR UNCONSCIOUSNESS until the time of the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT when they all WILL BE AWAKENED and cast into the SECOND ABODE of HELL as the Scriptures reveal.

Rev 20:11  And I saw a GREAT WHITE THRONE, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and DEATH and HELL (GREEK HADES same as HEBREW SHEHOLE) delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And DEATH AND HELL, (Shehole), WERE CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. This is the second death.


This SECOND ABODE of HELL is called by the Hebrew name GEHENNA (Strong’s G1067) or the LAKE of FIRE and BRIMSTONE. It was Created for the Devil and his Angles but will also house all of unsaved mankind. Mat 27:41

GEHENNA, the LAKE OF FIRE and BRIMSTONE was Created as a Prison of ETERNAL PUNISHMENT but has no present occupants and will not have any until our LORD’S 2nd ADVENT when the Beast and the False Prophet will become its FIRST INMATES by being cast into the LAKE of FIRE and BRIMSTONE ALIVE, that is FULLY CONSCIOUS.

Rev 19:19  And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20  And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. THESE BOTH WERE CAST ALIVE INTO A LAKE OF FIRE BURNING WITH BRIMSTONE.


These Two will be the sole occupants of the LAKE of FIRE and BRIMSTONE until the time of THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT has arrived and then ALL OCCUPANTS of the FIRST ABODE of HELL, SHEHOLE, WILL BE AWAKENED and CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE and BRIMSTONE to be TORMENTED FOREVER and EVER.

So your statement “From what you are saying is that all of the saints were suffering the torments of hell” is incorrect for no one even today suffers in SHEHOLE for they are ASLEEP or UNCONSCIOUS, completely unaware of anything.

[“A part of the Good News of Salvation is that we can escape having to go through the torments of hell so this subject does in fact have to do with preaching to the unsaved about the Good News of Salvation."]

“A part of the Good News of Salvation is that we can escape having to go through the torments of hell so this subject does in fact have to do with preaching to the unsaved about the Good News of Salvation."



First of all let me address this point on how you believe that FEAR, TERROR and COERCION are in any way ELEMENTS OF THE GOOD NEWS of SALVATION for the UNSAVED.

FEAR, TERROR and COERCION are the WEAPONS used by BRUTAL MEN and our ADVERSARY the DEVIL NEVER does GOD use these WEAPONS upon His OWN CHILDREN.

GOD is the GOD OF LOVE and NOT the GOD OF FEAR, TERROR and COERCION.

GOD”S GOOD NEWS is about HIS LOVE, HIS MERCY, HIS FORGIVENESS of our SINS and HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, JESUS the CHRIST our LORD and our SAVIOR who SACRIFICED HIMSELF FOR EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US.

JESUS the CHRIST was sent to save unbelievers from their SINS, JESUS the CHRIST was not sent to save anyone from the LAKE of FIRE and BRIMSTONE.

HIS GOOD NEWS is designed to CONVICT SINNERS of their SINFULNESS so they will TURN to HIM and be FORGIVEN.

There is no GOOD NEWS in COERCING someone into turning to GOD there is only FEAR, TERROR and RESENTMENT.

JESUS the CHRIST is OUR SHEPARD, we are HIS SHEEP.

THE GOOD SHEPARD DOES NOT DRIVE HIS SHEEP WITH FEAR and TERROR BUT RATHER HE LEADS the WITH the LOVE and MERCY of GOD.
 
The GOOD NEWS is a message of LIVING HOPE not the TERROR of ETERNAL DAMNATION.

WHY?

Because God does not want us to serve Him from a foundation of FEAR but out of a FOUNDATION BASED ON LOVE, and with the very same LOVE HE HAS DEMONSTRATED WITH HIS SACRIFICE FOR US, WE MUST DEMONSTRATE TO OTHERS.

For the WORLD is to know us by our LOVE not our THREATS.

FEAR TERROR AND COERCION are the ANTITHESIS OF LOVE and HAVE NO PLACE in the MESSAGE of SALVATION.

Whenever our Lord spoke of Gehenna and the LAKE of FIRE and BRIMSTONE He was teaching how BELIEVERS should live, how a believer should weigh SIN still remaining in their lives versus the End of SIN being in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone.

Never did our LORD use the LAKE of FIRE and BRIMSTONE when speaking about unbelievers for HIS MESSAGE AND HIS MINISTRY IS ABOUT HIS LOVE for the LOST and not about HIS THREATENING THE LOST THAT THEY MUST REPENT OR BURN FOREVER.

You are sorely misguided in this point.

[Middle Eastern Kingdom of Iron and Clay]

Hello christianheretic,

It doesn't appear that you know about what you want to argue. However, if you argue about semantics only, you might do okay. I'll pass but with two questions, 1) "if you don't think there will be a revived Roman Empire, what might you want to call it?" That is the general consensus among Bible Scholars. 2) Repeat on your user name:  2)  First, I would be curious about why you would use such a name on a Christian forum.

As to an exact Name for this New Beasts Kingdom, it can not be known prior to its rising just as all the Kingdoms after Babylon were not named until they had actually accomplished their rise to Power.

What we can know is the area of the world where this New Beast of Revelation 13 arises so lets call it, the Middle Eastern Kingdom of Iron and Clay or just the  Kingdom of the Middle East once everyone knows what we are speaking about.
 
Concerning semantics, in this case the study of symbols, it is a necessary part of interpreting the Written Word of God for if we ignore them we stray from the path of the pattern God has purposely provided for us.

The beginning point that is being established is that God’s Word is Trustworthy and each change in the pattern of the Symbolism or of the Symbols in any prophecy are BENCH MARKS that must be reflected when interpreting the Prophecy.

After the Lion of Babylon, when ever a New Beast appears in this Prophecy a New Kingdom arises that is different from the previous Beast’s Kingdom in culture, language, administration and people, this is the pattern established by God.
 
This New Beast of Rev 13 when it arises will continue to follow this Pattern set by God and conquer the previous Roman Beast"s Empire and take its place ruling over the lands and the peoples of this previous Kingdom.

Each Beast in succession rules all of its own lands and peoples and upon its victory over the previous Beast, it also rules all of the lands and the peoples of the Beast it has conquered.

This is the pattern God has established and we must follow God’s pattern in order to discover His Truth rather then some other person’s version of God’s Truth.

For example when we see the Bear, the Medes and Persia, arise and conquer the Lion, Babylon, we know we are seeing the Silver Breast and Arms of the Great Image as described in Dan 2.

We see further by unfolded history that within the same time frame as the Sliver Metal Portion of the Great Image exists the TWO ARMS represent TWO SEPARATE KINGDOMS, the Medes and Persia

While these TWO KINGDOMS occupy the same time frame as the presence of the Sliver Metal portion of the Great Image they are Two completely separate Kingdoms with different Cultures, Languages Administrations and People.

As it is with the TWO ARMS each being a Separate Kingdom with separate cultures, languages, administrations and People so it is with the TWO LEGS, for they also represent TWO SEPARATE KINGDOMS within the same time frame as the Iron Metal portion of the Great Image is in existence, and these Two Separate Kingdoms will have Two Separate cultures, languages, administrations and People

These TWO KINGDOMS are made up of the Roman Empire of Iron and the Middle Eastern Kingdom of Iron and Clay.

God is always consistent with His patterns.

If we look today we see the Two Legs begin at modern day Istanbul, the Western Leg stretches forth into Modern day Europe and the Eastern Leg extends into the lands of the Modern day Middle East, which for the purpose of this explanation includes all of the lands and Peoples ruled by the three previous Kingdoms of the Leopard, the Bear and the Lion as revealed in the Dream and Vision, with their Explanations, of Dan 2 and 7.

The  Foot of the Western Leg stands in modern day Europe and the Foot of the Eastern Leg stands in the modern day Middle East; these are the TWO KINGDOMS with separate Cultures Languages, Administrations and People, which the Legs of Iron and the Feet of Iron and Clay represent.
 
NOTE: (When I speak of Pseudo-Christianity or Pseudo- Christian I am speaking of the predominate culture present in the Countries involved and not the individual Christian Brethren within those Countries.) 

The Western LEG represents the Beast of Pagan Rome which after arising to the zenith of its power mingles itself with the Christian religion forming a Pseudo-Christianity mixed with paganism and rules until just before the FEET begin to sprout forth as a mixture of Iron and Clay.

The Eastern LEG represents the Kingdoms of the Beast who arises from the sea in Rev 13 which encompass the lands and the people of the modern day Middle East which were formerly ruled by the Leopard, the Bear and the Lion.

Today the people and lands of this Eastern LEG and FOOT are made up primarily of the Arabs and the Bedouins and while they have several different National identities they all have taken the name of Muslims as their singular Religious identity.
 
These Muslims have descended directly from Ishmael and all have converted to a singular religion formed of Pseudo-Jewish Torah observance mixed with the writings of their Prophet which is called Islam.

This Arab-Bedouin Eastern LEG and FOOT has yet to unite into any true confederation which is primarily due to God’s Prophecy concerning them in Gen 16:12.

This Prophecy of God prevents this Kingdom from arising to power prior to God’s time for them to emerge as the people of the Middle Eastern Kingdom of Iron and Clay.

This dormant state of this Middle Eastern Kingdom will change and it will change quickly once it begins for as prophecy reveals this New Beast of Rev 13 arises out of the sea near the end of the time, named in the Scriptures, as the BEGINNING OF SORROWS, Mt 24:8.

This New Beast’s MIDDLE EASTERN KINGDOM of Iron and Clay is made up of the Great Images Eastern LEG of Iron and its FEET of Iron and Clay.

This Kingdom will be centered in the modern day Middle East and will be comprised of the peoples and the lands of the Leopard, the Bear and the Lion and not in its present day European counterpart of the original Roman Beast’s Kingdom.

This is what results if we follow God’s Symbols and God’s Pattern consistently.

This interpretation has significant implications for those who call themselves Christian and for those in the Church who are their leaders.

Every Christian leader should become aware of these Truths so they are not left speechless when these Truths leave the realm of Prophecy and become the present reality.

For the Rising of this New Beast of Revelation 13 PRECEDES THE APPEARANCE OF THE LITTLE HORN BY A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TIME.

This is important because the appearance of the Little Horn announces the beginning of the 70th week of Dan 9.

So even those who hold to the position of a Pretribulation Rapture can not escape the prodigious events of the TIME OF SORROWS which do not come to an end until the LITTLE HORN ASCENDS TO POWER.

God’s pattern is consistent and trustworthy and we must follow it to have any hope of comprehending what He is saying to us.


As to what I am called, Christian heretic, I too was offended when I was first called by this name but then I looked up the meaning of the word heretic in the dictionary and now I am no longer offended by being called a heretic.

For while Christian tradition views heretic as quite negative, it is an apt one for me and with this name there is no danger of me ever sneaking up on any one unaware.

I have no desire for followers or acclaim and I certainly have no desire to deceive anyone.

Let the reader be aware and have his guard up from the outset, let him accept or reject with a clear conscious knowing that he is judging that which has been said rather then who it is that has said it.

If what I say really is from God’s sharing with me His Truth, then it will accomplish the purpose for which He has sent it forth and that is far more then I am ever going to be worthy of.

If what I share is not from God then let it be as dry leaves before the wind and leave each person’s perception quickly.

FREELY have I been given, FREELY do I share.
 
Accept it, reject it or refute in from the Scriptures let the reader decide as the Holy Spirit leads them.

[("There is no doubt that it was a SIGN of GOD'S Power, coupled with SIGNS in the heavens. Many present at the time thought the SIGNS were a testimony that JESUS CHRIST was who HE said that he was- VERY GOD")]

("There is no doubt that it was a SIGN of GOD'S Power, coupled with SIGNS in the heavens. Many present at the time thought the SIGNS were a testimony that JESUS CHRIST was who HE said that he was- VERY GOD")

So you have no idea what these signs mean but you are sure they can not mean what the Holy Spirit by Revelation says they mean.

Our Lord, Jesus the Christ knows what they mean and states so in Mat16:16-18.

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; And The Gates Of Hell Shall Not Prevail Against It.

So if you have no idea what these signs do mean how can you possibly know what they do not mean?

The Word of God is designed to offer the Truth in the face of every possible deception used in an attempt to deceive us yet you offer no alternative from the Scriptures to refute this Revelation of the Holy Spirit; only personal judgments based on nothing more then personal opinions.

Yet we are expected to believe you rather then that which the Holy Spirit has revealed.

“I do want to point out that you shouldn't guess about the meaning of the earthquake in Matthew 27:51. There are many things you shouldn't guess about Dreaming up possible answers to difficult portions of Scripture rarely is accurate, and wrong guesses detract the focus away from the PLAIN AND BASIC TRUTH”[/i]

To declare this a Revelation by the Holy Spirit as mere guessing or dreaming when you yourself have absolutely no idea what these signs in fact mean is rather presumptuous on your part, is it not?

The Pharisees of our Lord’s time had a similar problem in that they had no need of the Righteousness that Jesus the Christ offered them for they already had their own righteousness and they were quite well content with it. Mt 9:11-12 

Likewise many in this day have no need of God’s understanding, by the Holy Spirit, of His OWN Written Word, because they already have their own understanding of His Written Word and are quite well content with it.

As stated in the post, this is a revelation by the Holy Spirit, Just because you can not find this understanding in one of your many commentaries or just because it is not presently a part of your personal theology does not give you the right to presume this revelation is a GUESS or some type of DREAMING.

I did not think my way to the mountain top to grasp this sprig of Truth or build a little house of cards out of rational precepts mingled with my imagination but rather the Holy Spirit drew back the curtain as I was mentally at rest in contemplation of God’s Word.

If this revelation is of God, it will accomplish His purpose in bringing it forth. Isa 55:11.

If this is not of God it is but dead leaves in the wind, here today and then gone?

ACCEPT IT, REJECT IT OR REFUTE IT FROM THE SCRIPTURES; that is your decision to make.

“I could go on with other portions of the post, but the overall results of the CROSS should be the focus. Are the gates of hell fallen? Is hell no more?”

Unless I have forgotten how the English language works I need you to show me what there is about this post that leads you to think it states anywhere “THAT HELL IS NO MORE.”

For the spirit of a Christian, one whose name is written in the Book of Life, Hell no longer is a destination upon the death of this flesh, this is true.

For all others Hell is very much a present reality for all who do not have their names written in the Book of Life must be incarcerated in the darkness of Hell until the SECOND RESURRECTION, Rev 2:11, 20:6, 20:10-14, 21:8, when they will appear before the Great White Throne Judgment and then be vanquished too the Lake of Fire for eternity.

"Are the gates of hell fallen"?

Yes, hallelujah and Praise be to His Name Forever, the Gates of Hell are fallen for all who die in Christ Jesus our Lord. Glory be to God for His wondrous gifts of SALVATION and ETERNAL LIFE now and FOREVER. Mt 27:52-53

"I could go on with other portions of the post, but the overall results of the CROSS should be the focus".

Please explain how these signs of the Earthquake, the Rocks Renting, the Veil Renting, the Graves Opening and the Saints Awaking are not all signs equally important in the overall results of the Death of our Lord upon the Cross?

Simply because you can only comprehend one of these signs presently is not a reason to throw out the others.

Too assume because you can not comprehend the other signs presently  makes them some how worthless is quite a strech, don't, you think?

Concerning death of our Lord upon the Cross, the Opening of the Graves and the Saints awaking are a direct result of Deaths inability to hold the Christ, the Very Son of God in its grasp.

Among other things it TESTIFIES TO THE FACT HE IS THE VERY SON OF GOD WHOM DEATH CAN NOT HOLD.

Joh 3:18 HE THAT BELIEVETH ON HIM IS NOT CONDEMNED: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Rom 8:1 There is THEREFORE NOW NO CONDEMNATION to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; THAT THROUGH DEATH HE MIGHT DESTROY HIM THAT HAD THE POWER OF DEATH, THAT IS, THE DEVIL;

The Power of Death that the Devil had prior to the Cross is the CONDEMNATION of sin which has its roots in the rebellion of Adam in the garden.

This CONDEMNATION of sin is the VERY POWER OF DEATH’S hold on our spirit in Hell and it was taken away by the LAST ADAM, Jesus the Christ, upon the Cross because HE IS THE SON OF GOD and is without sin.

Thus the POWER OF DEATH over HIS Spirit and ours was DESTROYED, forever by our Lord’s sacrifice upon the Cross.

This is why our Lord on the Cross said “IT IS FINISHED”. Joh 19:30 and it is also why he said to the Thief hanging on the cross next to Him, “TODAY SHALT THOU BE WITH ME IN PARADISE.”

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

DEATH AND HELL COULD NOT HOLD HIM and it can not hold any that are HIS as the Thief, the graves of the Saints opening and the Saints awaking from Hell’s grasp proves.

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The ultimate Power of the Cross is not just the forgiveness of our sins; The Forgiveness of our sins is but a means to an end, the doorway opened to us by our Lord’s sacrifice;

The ultimate Power of the Cross is its ability to grant ETERNAL LIFE with Christ to all who will come unto Him. 

For without the Power of Granting ETERNAL LIFE our Lord’s great sacrifice upon the Cross was a very high price to pay for but a very short stay of execution.

Joh 5:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE, and SHALL NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION; BUT IS PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE.

We are PASSED FROM THE DEATH which still reins over this flesh, UNTO LIFE for our spirit which is Eternal with Christ now and forever.

And not just ETERNAL LIFE did our Lord accomplish upon the Cross but also the very FEAR OF DEATH itself can no longer hold us in bondage.

Heb 2:15 And DELIVER THEM WHO THROUGH FEAR OF DEATH WERE ALL THEIR LIFETIME SUBJECT TO BONDAGE.

[i]"You should also know there is a difference between hell and hades, especially regarding the Saints prior to the CROSS. Abraham and others were not being tormented or punished."[/b]

Concerning Hell, Hades and the Lake of Fire I am familiar with these terms and there is nothing inaccurate in my post concerning these terms, nor did I ever indicate that Hell is a place of punishment, which is another of your assumptions for which my post is innocent.


"In this case, you're talking about the GOOD NEWS - the most important message in existence, so mixing guesses with GOD'S GOOD NEWS is grossly improper. Please don't do that here or anywhere else"

Please explain how my post which is written to encourage all believers has anything to do with preaching to the unsaved about the Good News of Salvation?

Based on this accusation how many of the New Testament Epistles, which were in majority written to Edify the Body of Christ, would also be condemned.

If you presume to prevent edification of the believer with the Truth as revealed by the Holy Spirit then it is you who appears too stepped over the line and not I.

Freely I have been given freely do I share that that which I have received.

[IT IS FINISHED]

IT IS FINISHED

Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, IT IS FINISHED: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

The following is a revelation by the Holy Spirit of the complete and utter defeat of our adversary the devil at the instant of our Lord releasing His Spirit from His mortal flesh.

Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mat 27:51 And, Behold, THE VEIL OF THE TEMPLE WAS RENT IN TWAIN FROM THE TOP TO THE BOTTOM; AND THE EARTH DID QUAKE, AND THE ROCKS RENT;

As I surfed a Christian web site I was drawn to a post that contained the above verses and a question; what did the earthquake and the rocks rent signify, what was there meaning?

The third time I returned to review this post I was about half way thru and still unsettled with the answers given, when the Holy Spirit said, “the signs you are reading about signify "THE FALLING OF THE GATES OF HELL.” And this verse flowed into my mind;

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; And The Gates Of Hell Shall Not Prevail Against It.

I was stunned! Then I was ecstatic and began to praise our Heavenly Father for His wondrous ways and His awesome Truth, such great treasures He hides in plain view!

With this revelation the following verses, 52 and 53, of Matthew now come into focus and blend with the rest of Matthew’s testimony concerning the Spiritually empowered Physical signs manifested at the death of our Lord's physical body.

In fact without verses 52 & 53 we miss one of the most important truths demonstrated by our Lord’s Death, the actual demonstration of the COMPLETE AND UTTER DEFEAT OF OUR ENEMY, by the awakening of the Saints of God from their bondage in hell!

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The Gates of Hell that Jesus is speaking of in Mat 16:18 are the individual gates on each the tombs in hell of the dead saints WHO DIED IN HOPE OF THEIR REDEEMER.

These individual GATES on each tomb are what held the souls of the saints in the limbo, the realm of the dead until our Lord released His Spirit in death.

When our Lord released His Spirit to death, death could not hold Him, and it could no longer hold those who were His.

The earthquake and the rocks renting give testimony of the Tremendous Spiritual Power discharged when our Lord released His Spirit from His body and the saints who slept, in faith awaiting their redeemer, awoke. Then after our Lord’s resurrection they arose to go forth and witness to the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Mighty Triumph of the Cross!

You see the temple Veil’s renting witnesses to our freedom of access through Christ into the very presence of God in this present life and the earthquake, the rocks renting, the dead Saints awaking are witness too our life eternal achieved through our Lord’s death upon the cross.

A LIFE ETERNAL THAT EVEN THE DEATH OF THIS FLESHLY BODY CAN’T INTERRUPT.

 Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, Hath Everlasting Life, and shall not come into condemnation; but IS PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE.

For the present; death still reins over this mortal flesh but no longer are our spirits condemned to Hell awaiting the resurrection of this corruptible flesh.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

HALLELUJAH PRAISE GLORY AND HONOR BE TO THE NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS THE CHRIST FOREVER AND EVER.

2Ti 1:10  But is now made manifest by the appearing of OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST, WHO HATH ABOLISHED DEATH, And Hath Brought Life And Immortality To Light Through The Gospel:

The Gates of Hell have no longer the power to imprison our souls for if Hell could not contain the Saints of Jesus time it can not imprison the Souls of the Saints of this age either!

  Heb 2:14  Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; THAT THROUGH DEATH HE MIGHT DESTROY HIM THAT HAD THE POWER OF DEATH, THAT IS, THE DEVIL;

What a wondrous picture of complete triumph over our enemy.  Now we have not only the testimony of the Apostles but actual events of the Saints arising from their graves as witness to many in Jerusalem of  our Lord’s magnificent triumph over Satan’s power of DEATH, blessed be His Holy Name forever and ever!

HALLELUJAH and PRAISE UNTO HIM FOREVER AND EVER:

[Revelation 13:1]

The Beasts of Revelation 13

In the vision of Daniel 7, the prophet saw four beasts rising from the sea. These beasts were found to represent the kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, the "Greeks", and Satan's end-time rule. In Revelation 12, a more complete picture of the dynasty of Satan's rule was given when John saw a dragon with seven heads and ten horns. When looking,  reviewing Revelation 17, Seven heads correspond to the following divisions in Biblical history.

1. The Fall to the Flood
2. The Flood to Egypt
3. The Rule of Egypt
4. Babylon (Daniel's First Kingdom)
5. Medo-Persia (Daniel's Second Kingdom)
6. The Dominion of Greece (Daniel's Third Kingdom, from Alexander to the end-times)
7. The Kingdom of Iron and Clay (Daniel's end-time Fourth Kingdom)

In Revelation 13, more information is given concerning the most powerful time ever of Satan's rule. It is when he is loosed during the final years of the Fourth Kingdom (the seventh head of the beast) to arise as the Antichrist.

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

As found in Revelation 17, the beast with seven heads and ten horns typifies Satan's rule over mankind. The seven heads represent the seven epochs of that rule from the Fall to the last day. The ten horns typify the "kings of the earth" (that is, its rulers and leaders) through whom Satan works to promote war, strife, carnality, immorality, persecution, ungodly civil laws, etc.

John stood on the sand to witness the beast rise out of the sea. The "sand" typifies the insecure spiritual foundation of the earth (Matthew 7:26), while the "sea" emphasizes that Satan's kingdom finds its origin in the wicked nations.

All ten horns are crowned in this chapter, showing that the Great Tribulation period, which begins with Satan's loosing during the final years of the Fourth Kingdom – is now in view. As Revelation 17 terms it, this is the "hour" when the ten horns will receive "power as kings" (be crowned) with the beast:

All seven heads of the beast bear a single name of blasphemy.

Revelation 13:2-3 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

The beast was like a leopard, with feet as a bear and a mouth as a lion's. This language derives from Daniel 7, where the lion typified the strong Babylonian empire, the bear typified the ravenous Medo-Persian coalition, and the leopard typified the speed and agility of the Greeks.

In Revelation 13, we have the same wild animals but in reverse order (because John is looking back in time). The mention of these animals shows that Daniel's Fourth Kingdom, especially during the Tribulation will incorporate all the attributes of the preceding three epochs.

In particular, the Fourth Kingdom will incorporate the attributes of the Greeks, because this beast is specifically "like unto a leopard." Since the achievements of the Greeks form the cornerstone of Western civilisation, we can presume that Satan's final kingdom will be very Greek-like, in that he will use the sinful attributes of the Western world to increase wickedness worldwide, especially during the Tribulation period. (Focus on the Greeks is also evident in the fourth beast's claws of brass [Dan 7:19] through which the world will be spiritually torn. As we found in Dan 2:32, brass is the metal associated with the Greek empire.)

However, when he is loosed to deceive the nations, the deadly wound will look healed.

This same fact of being dead then alive again is also mentioned in..........

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Satan's kingdom "was" in the Old Testament when it commanded great authority. For most of the New Testament age, though, Satan's kingdom "is not" because Christ bound him at Pentecost to enable the extension of the church.

In Revelation 17:8, people whose names are not written in the book of life (the unsaved) gaze in wonder at the newly-alive beast. This corresponds to the people in Revelation 13 who "wondered after the beast." Their astonishment is spiritual. As sin and apostasy rule during the Tribulation period, people will love what this earth has to offer. With all its temptations, such as material goods, power, wealth, feel-good religions and fleshy attractions, Satan's kingdom will be wholly embraced by sinners, to a degree unparalleled in history.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Through their adoration of his kingdom, people will be worshipping the dragon himself. Of course, one does not need to engage in satanic rituals to worship the Devil. The unsaved worship him simply by leading their normal, sinful lives.

With Satan loosed to deceive the nations, people will be so enamored of his kingdom that they will say in their hearts, "Who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him?" In other words, they will be saying: "Why war with Satan by focusing on Christ when it is so much better to fix our eyes on this world and all its wonderful offerings."

Revelation 13:5-7 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

A mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given to the beast. As Daniel 7 confirms, this will occur through the agency of the "little horn," who will arise at some point after the Fourth Kingdom begins.

Daniel 7:7-8 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. 8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Daniel 7:23-25 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.  24And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

I believe God will fulfill each and every Scripture of Revelation and Daniel and all the rest of His Prophecies LITERALLY rather then Symbolically and that all of His children present on Earth when they are fulfilled will be witnesses to these events as they unfold and will know that He is fulfilling His Word.

This is how God has done it in the past and How God will do it in the future.

For with God there is no variableness or shadow of turning. Jam 1:17

[As to this being history]

Hello ChristianHeretic,

Revelation 13 is really describing something old - the revival of the old Roman Empire. Fragments of the old Roman Empire still exist, so its OLD wounds were not MORTAL, and it will be revived. The seven heads represent seven kings, and the ten horns represent ten kingdoms. We also see the introduction of the false messiah in Revelation 13. We have many highly detailed threads on the forum if you would like to study this matter further.

I hope you enjoy Christians Unite.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Well Tom i could not disagree more heartily.

As to this being history, I say fine if you choose to believe that go your way but before you do you might ask yourself when in all of Scripture has God ever fulfilled His prophecies and waited hundreds of years for academics to recognize it and man to acknowledge and glorify Him for it?

Hmmmm; never has this happened and never will this happen.

All Prophecy is fulfilled in present tense to the generation for which it is intended and all people of faith living in the generations in which God fulfills His Prophecies will recognize it as FULFILLED PROPHECY and Glorify God for it.

If Prophecy were not fulfilled in present tense for the people of faith living at the time of the fulfillment of Prophecy then God never would receive the Glory for His fulfillment of His Word and the people of faith could never be sure God has ever fulfilled His Word at all.

In order for your interpretation to be correct God would have to change His assignment of each symbol’s identification in this vision and God never indicates this in His explanation to Daniel or any where else in the Scriptures.

God is very specific in how He identifies each Symbol of Daniel 7 with the specific Kingdom it represents in Dan 2.

Dan 7: vision by night

The Leopard: represents the Kingdom of Alexander the Great.
The Bear: represents the Kingdom of the Medes-Persia
The Lion: represents the Kingdom of Babylon
The IRON TEETH: is the ONLY IDENTIFING SYMBOL WE ARE PROVIDED FOR THE ROMAN BEAST.

There are NO IRON TEETH in this New Beast who arises from the Sea in Rev 13.


So when God says:

Rev 13:2  And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

God is identifying the former Kingdoms of Alexander the Great, Medes-Persia and Babylon.

UNLESS YOU BELIEVE GOD MADE AN ERROR OR LEFT SOMETHING OUT, that we actually need to know, this omission of IRON TEETH can only mean that the ORIGINAL ROMAN BEAST has been vanquished like all the beasts before it and replaced BY THIS NEW BEAST OF REV 13 who arises out of the sea and is comprised of the lands and peoples of three former kingdoms symbolized by the Leopard, the Bear and the Lion.

This New Beast of Rev 13 will rule the entire original Kingdom of the Roman Beast but will be made up of Islamic Nations and Kingdoms.

Unlike man, with God there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Jam 1:17.

If the original Roman Beast still existed this New Beast would have IRON TEETH as one of its Symbolic identifiers. God specifically omits the IRON TEETH so we will know that a changing of the Guard has taken place.

God is consistent and without variableness or shadow of turning in His symbolism, which He must be for us to have any hope of understanding what He is saying to us, thus the original Roman Beast no longer exists after this New Beast of Rev 13 arises and vanquishes what remains of its Empire.

In the place of the Roman Beast with IRON TEETH we see a Beast made up of the Kingdoms of the LEOPARD, the BEAR and the LION and the original Roman BEAST WITH THE IRON TEETH is no longer in view just like all the BEASTS before it when it has been defeated it is bound in the bottomless pit.

This is why the Angel says in Rev 17 of the New Beast in Rev 13:

Rev 17:8  The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Realize that when the Angel of Rev 17 makes the above statement it is just prior to 90 AD and the Roman Empire is presently in existence and is still at its Zenith in power and conquest.
 
Yet the Angel says “the Beast, referring to the New Beast of Rev 13, that thou saw WAS AND IS NOT.

God never makes errors in the tense He is speaking in so when God says “WAS and IS NOT” HE CAN NOT BE SPEAKING OF THE ROMAN BEAST for the Roman Beast is in existence when He says this.
 
This is further proof that the Angel is not speaking of the original Roman Beast but rather to a NEW BEAST that had existed previous to the Roman Beast who will emerge and exist again in the future.

One last Scripture Proof these Prophecies are not HISTORY.

Rev 17:12  And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; BUT RECEIVE POWER AS KINGS ONE HOUR WITH THE BEAST.

As this Scripture Text shows the Ten Kings Rein ONE HOUR with the Beast, that is all together on the same world stage at the same time, which is still future.

Based on literal rules of interpretation please explain how any other result can be obtained.

[Why the Beast of Revelation 13 is different from all the other Beats]

Why the Beast of Revelation 13 is different from all the other Beats

Rev 13:1  And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a LEOPARD, and his feet were as the feet of a BEAR, and his mouth as the mouth of a LION: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.


This New 5th Beast of Rev 13 is very different from the four Beasts that preceded it as recorded in Dan 7.

Each of the four previous Beasts recorded in Dan 7 had only a single Symbol with which too identify it but this New 5th Beasts of Rev 13 has Three Symbols with which we are to identify it.
 
As with all things in the Scriptures the simple answer is always true for even if a verse carries a deeper more Spiritual meaning this deeper meaning never proves wrong the simple and plain meaning in the verse. For with God there is no variableness or shadow of turning. Jam 1:17

The simple answer is that this New 5th Beast is a combination of the lands and the people that were previously governed by the Kingdoms which the LEOPARD the BEAR and the LION ruled.
 
The LEOPARD represents the Kingdom of Alexander the Great, the BEAR represents the Kingdom of the Medes-Persia and the LION represents the Kingdom of Babylon.

This is why Rev:17-8 says of this New 5th Beast:

 Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The lands and peoples of these former Kingdoms are presently totally populated by Islamic nations with the exception of the small country of Greece and the tiny nation of Israel.

That God’s focus should turn back to the Middle East in these last days should not be surprising for He still has promises to fulfill and  all of the activity of the final 7 yrs of this age are centered upon the Land of Israel in general and Jerusalem in particular.

For our Lord upon His return will not appear in Washington D C or Rome but shall set His foot down in the city of Jerusalem.