I hear from both Christians and atheists that they get a lot of flack for their beliefs. I'm curious--has anyone on this forum had interesting persecution experiences?

Question for Christians and atheists both:

Why do you care so much about a little monument?

Christians--taking it away doesn't prevent you from following its teachings.

Atheists--keeping it there doesn't force you to follow its teachings.

All right--so Abraham is saved by faith. But the question remains, IS HE RIGHT TO FOLLOW GOD'S COMMAND, if God's command is inherently unethical?

We are taught to believe that we should be good people no matter what the consequences. I am arguing that we should be good EVEN IF IT MEANS GOING TO HELL. This may seem like a nonsensical statement, since God supposedly defines what is good, but, as I attempted to demonstrate above, there is an absolute good that exists outside of God.

I guess what I'm really asking is this--is it better to get "saved" by committing a sin, or go to hell for not committing one? I think the latter is more admirable.

I agree with you that some personal choice is involved in achieving salvation. However, it seems that sometimes God makes the decision ahead of time. For instance, in Exodus there are numerous references to God "hardening Pharaoh's heart." Apparently God MADE him defy Moses, without giving him a choice in the matter.

Good point--but why would anyone want to have faith in such a cruel god?

Christians, I believe, think that people's notions of good and evil come from God. But they, as well as atheists, would also say that certain actions are obviously wrong even when not viewed through a religious lens, because they are clearly detrimental to society. For instance, every reasonable person agrees, without reference to religion, that murder is wrong.

Now what happens if God asks us to do something we know is objectively wrong, like killing our children? Is it really acceptable to say, "Since God told me to do it, it's the right thing to do"? Wouldn't it be more morally courageous to question God's judgment and apply our own conscience to the problem? If God has the right to judge us, then we should have the right to judge him--particularly when he contradicts his own 10 Commandments.

Why did God "test" Abraham by asking him to kill Isaac? How could he demand such a sacrifice from anyone?

I've heard the argument that since God sacrificed Jesus, he had the right to ask Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. But there are 2 problems with that argument:

1. While God knew Jesus would rejoin him in Heaven, Abraham did not know if he would ever see Isaac again--because there was no real concept of an afterlife at that time (correct me if I'm wrong). Hence, God's sacrifice was much less painful than Abraham's.

2. Jesus was given a choice, whereas Isaac was not.