You have used the bible in your assertion that it is a fake. You have used the word God to prove He doesn't exist.

If you say something is true, and it contains untruths, then it is untrue. This is simple. The sun did not stand still, and even if it did, we would still experience a sunrise.

 

By the same token I can use the bible to prove that Christ existed.

No you can't, and if you could, the world would be at his feet. Obviously, you have failed miserably in this quest.
 

He has shown Himself to be divine in a myriad of ways but you have to ignore that in order to perpetuate your beliefs.  That's a little out of touch.

He hasn't shown me anything. He does not exist. That is my opinion, and that you feel he exists is your opinion. Both opinions are based on a lack of evidence.  As far as me being out of touch, well I need evidence before I believe a thing, not mushy feelings inside.

[science]

You must not have had any miracles in your life or you would know that many, many things that at one time seemed impossible have happened. Life was different thousands of years ago. The atmosphere was differet. There was less polution  and disease and people lived longer. There were HUGE dinosaurs for which, if archeologists hadn't found bones, people would find that unbelievable. Life itself is a miracle, in fact, such a miracle that scientists spend their lives trying to understand, not only how it works, but how it was created. They still change their minds every decade. Since I have opened my eyes and seen far beyond my narrow experiences in life, i find that anything's possible.  Many people believe in aliens and there has been less evidence that aliens exist than God exists.

Spoken like a true believer! I see now exactly what I'm dealing with. Logic fails here. I don't intend to be mean, Heidi, but you may as well have said that you'll believe anything.

Firstly, people are living much longer than anytime in history (excluding mythology), thanks to science.
Yes the atmosphere was different thousands of years ago, because of pollution nowadays. Billions of years ago it was different because bacteria hadn't yet freed up the oxygen we
now enjoy.

Many people believe in aliens because they want to believe in aliens. They have faith in aliens, but no proof.

As far a life being a miracle, I think your definition needs work. A miracle is something that can't normally happen.

Eyeball

I don't know what books you consider proof of anything. You must not believe any history books if you don't believe the bible. If you do believe history books then you have chosen to believe imperfect fallible minds in which case, why wouldn't you believe the bible?

Because history books don't speak of talking asses, people surviving being eaten and consumed by fire. No unicorns or dragons, unless stated as myth.

Explain how it's circular logic.

You are using for proof, the very thing you are trying to prove. Look here.
A long time ago Eyeball said he always tells the truth. Atheist said Eyeball was an honest man. Knox says Eyeball was truthful and he can prove it, because Atheist and Eyeball wrote it down.
If we could test some things Eyeball has claimed, we can know if at least there is truth there. Sadly, Eyeball is gone from this age and this Earth. None of his writings have any specific prophecies or testable statements.
If all you had were vague writings atributed to Eyeball, all you could truthfully say is that you think they are truth. But to try and prove them based on what the long dead Atheist and Knox wrote, would be circular logic.

I am not able to insert a quote from my keyboard because it's not working right. But I'll try to remember some of your posts. You seem to see God as a punishing God instead of saving us from ourselves.  Either you don't think you make any mistakes and don't need a redeemer or you're angry that he is punishing. Or are you happy that He's a punishing God? If you're happy that you think He's a punishing God then why don't you accept Him? You're giving off mixed messages. You say you're not angry but your contempt of God shows otherwise.

Jesus very definitely did exist. His words are written down. They can't be from another human being who made them up because the person who wrote down His words condemned mankind as evil. What human being can condemn humanity (including himself) and then turn around and give his life for mankind? Where did He get the love to do that? Just a guess? He couldn't have gotten it from another human being because He believes they are evil. Why would He believe them? How long could you go around believing you and the rest of humanity is evil without killing yourself and others? The answer is that Jesus HAD to be from God. There is no other source from which to get the love He had to give us.

That's not what I asked for. Every bit of yur proof is circular logic.

The way you talk about others on this forum is definitely angry.

Could you show me an example of what you're talking about? You'd better hurry, though, because my posts are being
--------.

As for more ways that prove God exists, look at the Bible. How many of its predictions have come true already? quite a few I believe!

Care to elaborate on some of the more specific ones. Remember, they need to have truth today, not centuries ago. In other words, if the Bible said we have a second moon which will explode, and a later verse says "see, the second moon just exploded, now we only have one". That would not be proof of a true prediction, because the only proof is itself.

Well it looks like we've found someone who knows more than Christ. You very definitely are angry. There is bitterness in your writing, probably at your parents for shoving Christianity down your throat. Just because you don't know God doesn't mean He doesn't exist. I know it may be hard for you to believe, but there's a lot you don't know...unless of course you think you're omniscient which is delusions of grandeur.

Anger? Maybe. Mostly I'm just occasionally livid with incredulity at the lengths I've seen some here go, to not answer my questions.
My parents? They were great people, especially my Dad. He never forced anything on me. He always let me find my own way. In fact, critical thinking skills he taught me, led me away from religion. As for religion being forced down my throat, I'm the one who at six years old, talked my parents into going to church with me and my Grandparents.

[betrothed her unto his son]

if only we could lock you away, but exactly what underage rapes are you speaking of???

Exodus
21:7
And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
21:9
And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters

I would think if you sell your daughter, she is a slave. For a slave to be forced to marry the masters son, and presumably service him as a good wife is required, to me would be coerced sex- rape.

Numbers
31:15
And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:16
Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
31:17
Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.    
31:18
But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Verse 31:18 says "women children". They are the spoils of war. They are property, not new daughters. It's funny that they killed everyone else because they supposedly brought "a plague upon the congregation of the Lord", yet would keep the little girls,  for their pleasure.

 

Ah, I see my mistake. Thank you for keeping me honest. Now we do not have a miracle, but a verse that is inconsistant with archeology. From Jonah-

Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.

Jonah did not walk three days from the sea shore. That's originally what I thought. This part of the verse was describing Nineveh's diameter. At 20 miles a day, easily walked by a moderately healthy person, Nineveh would have been larger than Los Angeles. This would have probably been the largest city in the world, back then, and larger than most, if not all cities now.

Eyeball

I think the greatest of the miracles concerning Jonah, was that he walked over 300 miles in 3 days. I mean, even without resting, that's over four miles an hour.

Eyeball

Whitehorse said

Despite your feelings, there should be something whispering to you that He is the Author of the ten commandments.

If I start hearing voices in my head and then obeying them, I hope to be put away and medicated.

Whenever you feel God is only a God of wrath, it's either because people distorted His character to you for their own purposes, or because you're not looking at what the people in the Bible did to offend God.

Another option, the one that works for me, is to know the book is a fake. All these millions over the years fooled by a bunch of middle eastern goatherders. God is not wrathful, for he DOES NO EXIST! His followers on the other hand, have been known for their wrath and excellent torture tecniques.

Did people teach you only His wrath and not His mercy so that they could control you for their own sinful power trips?

Are you kidding? You think I was Catholic? Come on. You folks are always trying this. You think if someone doesn't believe in a god, they must hate that god. Then you try to pry out some kind of horrible chidhood trauma, I guess for your listening pleasure. Listen, he does not exist. I do not hate a thing that is not.Yeah I heard the fire and brimstone preaching about hell as a kid, but adults always left out the other parts. Blasphemy removed 9-3-2003 bepI found these on my own, along with the genocide of the Bible. And by the way, sorry to disappoint you, but I had a wonderful childhood.

Are any of you going to answer my questions?
Eyeball

Petro said-

You would rationalize, "Why should I give my life for sinners" they are of no value to me anyhow. And besides I am already god.

These words are the words of a selfish person, you see, you only think about your own gain and what the benefits would be for you.  This why, you can never be God.

Why do you put words in my mouth, then on the basis of them call me selfish? Have I said something that led you to believe I am selfish? Or is it the same old line about atheists being so selfish they won't acknowledge God? Well, I'm not selfish, I don't value material posessions beyond their usefullness and if you need a couple of bucks I just might lend it to you, if you really need it.  I think you take offense of the fact that non-believers value themselves and their thoughts, that we feel worthy of living free of archaic rules.

As far as your opinion that I only think of my own gain and benefits to me, well, being unhindered by religion, I see that what benefits others  benefits the world. I'm not obsessed by an afterlife, so I know my short time on Earth is all I'll have. I know I had better use this time wisely, for it's all I'll get.

Eyeball

[to become like Him.]

God is not like a man; He has higher thoughts and higher priorities. And He wants His character to be made known, and He wants His children to become like Him.

How should I be more like God? Tell my children I am going to punish them all there lives for something an ancestor did? Tell them part of their being will last forever and be tortured by me because they don't think as I want them to? Should I send my children to kill  most of the neighbors so they'll have land to build their houses and build a place to worship me? Have my children use the surviving neighbors, all virgin children, as whores or sell them into prostitution?

Maybe that was the problem Andrea Yates of Texas had. She was trying to be god-like, and pulled a Noah on her children. People were really freaked over this, yet think it's plausable that a loving god would do worse.

No, none of you have answers for the hard questions, except to say God's thoughts are higher than ours. That's an easy out and explains nothing.

How serious it is, and how powerful God is.

I was raised with fire and brimstone preaching Sunday morning, Sunday night plus prayer meeting on Wed. I know how serious this all is. If I thought any of it was plausable, I'd be on my knees in a second. As for God's power, he either does not exist or is impotent. I hear proofs such as God's healing or God blessed us with money to buy food. If he wanted belief, the big man would make a few amputated legs and arms grow back. Lizards can do it, why can't God? If he wanted belief He would strike dead anyone who touched his graven monument, as the book said he did with the ark.

Eyeball

Whitehorse said

If we didn't sin so badly, how could the intensity of God's love be known? How would you know what it's like to be completely forgiven for something serious that you have done, like rebel against an all-powerful God?

So God planned our humble and hardscrabble existence?

Let me put it to you this way. Our sin cost Him His only Son, with whom He had perfect fellowship. A Son who didn't deserve to die.

Well it's all his fault. He planned it all, he put into action and followed through with it. He can do anything, right? Well he could have done it differently. I mean, come on now, how many times has he smote the world. And he seems surprised every time he needs to repeat the smiting.

Eyeball