[there come a falling away first,]

Now. we beseech you brethen, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,   and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;.......
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

Oklahoma Howdy to Ollie,

I'm sorry it took so long for me to get these posted. I've been busy and back and forth to the doctor.

2 Thessalonians 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
2 Thessalonians 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2 Thessalonians 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The apostle is addressing fears of the people they may have some error in doctrine and the second coming of Christ is at hand. The apostle calms them by explaining that the anti-christ will be revealed prior to the second coming of Christ. The falling away spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is those who will follow the anti-christ.

[some shall depart from the faith]

How do these fit in to the study of osas, osnas, apostasy, and falling away?

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,    giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding  to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:1-3

Oklahoma Howdy to Ollie,

1 Timothy 4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrine of devils;
1 Timothy 4:2  Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1 Timothy 4:3  Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:4  For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1 Timothy 4:5  For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
1 Timothy 4:6  If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

1 Timothy 4:1 - The departure spoken of here is not departure from Salvation, rather an error against doctrine of the Gospel of God's Grace. If you look in later verses and throughout this chapter, this is an exhortation for the ministry of truth in the Gospel of God's Grace. These verses refer to articles of doctrine in the Gospel of God's Grace.

As an example of errors in doctrine, the point is made in 1 Timothy 4:3 that forbidding marriage and the eating of meat is not part of the doctrine of the Gospel of God's Grace. If it is not forbidden by the Gospel of God's Grace, it is false teaching and an error. If your minister told you marriage would cause the forfeit of your salvation, that would be false doctrine. If your minister told you that eating meat would cause the forfeit of your salvation, that would be false doctrine. However, you would not lose your salvation if you believed you couldn't eat meat or marry. Some of the other things that would apply in verse one would be numerology, astrology, palm-reading, etc., etc., etc. You would not lose your salvation if you believed in these things, but they would be a departure from the doctrine of the Gospel of God's Grace. As another example in 1 Timothy 4:3, a priest believing he couldn't be married would not cause him to lose his salvation. However, it would be false teaching and contrary to the Gospel of God's Grace.

In conclusion, errors in doctrine do not equal loss of salvation.

Oklahoma Howdy to Photogrunt,

Welcome back, it's nice to see you back on the board. I appreciate your service to our country.

I have not sinned, sir, I have only declared and defended Gods truth against a false doctrine, My motives in doing this are not as you believe, motives of hatred, they are truyly sincere motives of Christ like compassion for the deceived who are being led down the road to eternal destruction in hell by the devil!

I forgive you all.....

If you know anything at all about the Holy Bible, you know it is a SIN! to call a Brother in Christ Satan. Spewing nothing but hate is also a SIN! You have broken both commands of God. If you wish, I'll be happy to post a host of verses from the Holy Bible to prove what you did is a SIN! You are the one who needs forgiveness.

I haven't been to sleep yet, so I'm off to bed. I'll post the LOVE COMMANDS from GOD when I get a chance.

Listen, all of you, speaking out against false doctrines is NOT SIN!

Defending the absolute truth of Gods word is a righteous labor of the Godly!

Calling Brothers in Christ is SIN! Use Scripture from the Holy Bible when you wish to make a point. Use Scripture from the Holy Bible when you wish to prove a false doctrine. If you don't have a Bible, I'll buy you one.

If you wish to defend the absolute truth, it won't come from your mouth, rather from the Holy Bible. In the meantime, hate, disharmony, and name calling of your Brothers in Christ IS A SIN!, and you are guilty. You know this to be a command of God, and you broke it. God calls that SIN!

Oklahoma Howdy to Sower,

Brother, it's nice to see you back.

In Christ

Oklahoma Howdy to Forrest,

Brother, it's nice to see you back. I really enjoyed the letter. We should all get quiet and spend time with Jesus.

In Christ

Oklahoma Howdy to TigerLily,

Amen, that was beautiful. It is nice and calming to read inspirational works. This reminds me of a few words my 83 year old mother says regularly, "KEEP LOOKING UP".

Oklahoma Howdy to TigerLily,

Amen, that was beautiful.

This is the dimension of imagination.
It is an area which we call......

The ChristianUnite Zo--(oops, hehe)--The Twilight Zone.

Oklahoma Howdy to Symphony,

I loved it <LOL>. The picture and the eyeball.  

The guy in the picture is in Kansas, he just doesn't know it.  

hi BEP,, yes i got them thank u so much, gracious you live in a beautiful area,! you are blessed.
TL

Oklahoma Howdy to TigerLily,

This is almost my favorite time of the year for the Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge. It's near birthing time. They usually try to separate the bulls from the herd and you can sometimes find an entire pasture full of buffalo mammas and babies. I'm not a cowboy, so you'll have to excuse my terminology. All I can tell you is they are beautiful, and I'll try to get you a picture.

What is Salvation (To Be Saved)?

How can I be Saved and receive Salvation?

Your life in this mortal body will be short, but your soul will live for eternity either in heaven or hell. Those who have received Salvation and accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour will live forever with Jesus in Heaven. Those who reject Jesus Christ will spend eternity in Hell. Almighty God, the Creator of all, is real and He Lives. Almighty God is three Holy Deities in ONE GOD: God, the Father; God, the Son, and God, the Holy Spirit. The Holy Bible is the inspired Word of God, containing the only true account of all creation, both past and future. God does love you, regardless of how many bad things you have done in your life. Because of his Love for you, God sent his only Son, Jesus Christ, to be crucified and die on a cross for your sins. Jesus Christ lived on this earth in the form of a man, but He was very God. Jesus Christ was righteous and without sin, yet he was convicted and sentenced to death. Jesus died and was buried, but he arose on the third day. Jesus Christ ascended back to Heaven and HE LIVES, very God. God wants you to accept Him, return His love, and become one of His children. God wants to adopt you and give you an inheritance, but you must believe to accept this Gift._____

If you are unsaved, please read this carefully. Do you many times feel alone in this world and helpless because of the evil you see and experience? Do you feel bad when you do wrong and wonder if there must be something else, other than this world, to enjoy? Do you feel empty and unhappy about yourself and what the future may bring? Answering these and other questions may give you the reasons why you should accept Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour. Would you like to experience and enjoy peace, joy, and love this world can't offer? It isn't hard to become a believer and Saved: you can receive Salvation right now, this minute.

1 - I AM A SINNER:  You must understand that you are a sinner. Sin is wrong, as commanded by Almighty God in his Word, the Holy Bible. All men sin and do wrong in the sight of Almighty God. Regardless of how large or small your sins are, you can be forgiven and accepted as a Child of God. (See Scripture Notes 1 below)

2 - I BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS FOR MY SINS AND AROSE FROM THE DEAD AS MY LORD AND SAVIOUR:  Almighty God sent his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross for you, in payment for your sins. The Blood of Jesus Christ will wash away your sins as if they had never happened. Jesus Christ bore suffering and pain on the cross for you, that you can be saved and be forgiven. Jesus Christ arose from the dead and LIVES as the Lord and Saviour to all who will believe and accept him. This is a Gift by God's Grace, a free gift that you didn't earn or deserve. (See Scripture Notes 2 below)

3 - I ASK JESUS CHRIST TO COME INTO MY HEART AS MY PERSONAL SAVIOUR AND FORGIVE MY SINS:  You must trust Jesus Christ and ask him to come into your heart as your personal Lord and Saviour. Ask Jesus Christ to be first in your life and forgive your sins. (See Scripture Notes 3 below)_____

If you believe this with your heart, you will be: baptized with the Holy Spirit, forgiven, indwelt by God, adopted into the family of God, made an heir of God, set apart for God, and much more. There are many wonderful gifts you will be given, all free and undeserved by the Matchless, Loving Grace of God.

I hope this doesn't sound difficult. The words and thoughts must be your words and thoughts from your heart. You must believe in your heart and ask Jesus for Salvation from your heart. Your prayer can be very simple, but your prayer must be from your heart._____

Lord Jesus, I am a sinner not worthy of your Love. Lord Jesus, I believe that you died on the cross for me and I ask you to come into my heart as my Lord and Saviour. Lord Jesus, I ask forgiveness for my sins and ask to follow you as the Lord of my life. In the name of Jesus Christ, I pray. Amen._____

Scripture Notes 1:

Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Ecc 7:20  For [there is] not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

1Jo 1:8  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Rom 3:10  As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Rom 3:23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;_____

Scripture Notes 2:

John 19:16  Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led [him] away.
John 19:17  And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called [the place] of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
John 19:18  Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
John 19:19  And Pilate wrote a title, and put [it] on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.

1Pe 2:24  Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Ephesians 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast._____

Scripture Notes 3:

John 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18  He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Romans 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:10  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:11  For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Romans 10:12  For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Romans 10:13  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Eternal Life and Salvation:

Rom 6:5  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:

The unbelievers are dead in sin, but believers are said to have been crucified with Christ and resurrected with Christ. Salvation is a passing from death to life in and through
Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:24  Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 3:25  Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Romans 3:26  To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 3:27  Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Romans 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Read Romans 3:24-28 several times to understand just what part man has in Salvation. Justified freely by the Grace of God, Redemption in Christ Jesus, Jesus Christ suffered for the remission of sins, declared righteousness through the blood of Jesus and the forbearance of God, but man must believe in Jesus. However, this is followed up in verses 27 and 28 by saying that justification is not by the law, not by works, without the deeds of the law, but BY THE LAW OF FAITH. So, what is this law of faith? It is a doctrine of belief in the Glory of God and the blood of Jesus. All of the glory must be of God, and nothing of man. All is by God's Grace and nothing of man. So, Salvation is an undeserved gift given to man who believes. The purpose for the gift is God's Purpose, God's Love, and God's Grace.

So, the new believer is born again, regenerated, justified, and in union with Christ. Does the believer keep himself saved. If so, what must he do to keep himself saved. One must keep in mind that part of the promise has already been delivered and IS DONE in the heart of the believer. Is the believer in the protection of his own hand, or is he in THE HAND OF GOD? Must the believer be without sin and blameless to maintain his Salvation? Again, remember that part of the promise has already been delivered. Man may be faithless, but God is always FAITHFULL. God has already given and cannot lie or take away.

A Christian's life on earth is many times spoken of as a race or a fight. Does the Christian fight or persevere alone? Does the Christian run the race or fight the good fight with his own strength? Does the Christian build his own faith? The real question is whether the Christian will ever know whether he is saved or not? YES, the Christian should have 100% assurance in Salvation, simply because of a Promise from God, part of which has already been given. Please see Psalms 121:7-8, 1 Corinthians 1:8-9, Philippians 1:6, 2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 13:5, and Jude 1:24-25 Below:

Psalms 121:7  The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.
Psalms 121:8  The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.

Quick Note: The Christian does not preserve himself.

1 Corinthians 1:8  Who shall also confirm you unto the end, [that ye may be] blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:9  God [is] faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Quick Note: The Christian does not confirm himself, and the Christian will certainly not be blameless. The Christian did not establish fellowship with Jesus Christ. God did and does all of these things.

Phi 1:6  Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:

Quick Note: The Christian is not confident in himself, for a man is not an object of confidence. The assurance in the heart of the believer is in God. The good work begun in the heart of the believer is by God and HE WILL (not might) perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. This assurance is from God. GOD SAID IT, IT'S DONE!

2Ti 4:18  And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve [me] unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Quick Note: This does not mean or imply that the believer will never sin or do an evil work. However, the Lord will deliver the believer and preserve the believer unto his heavenly kingdom. The words are "SHALL" and "WILL" and they refer to the Power and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ, not to the power, will, or work of the believer.

Heb 13:5  [Let your] conversation [be] without covetousness; [and be] content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Quick Note: Who is this who promises to never leave or forsake the believer, and what are the conditions?

Jude 1:24  Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jude 1:25  To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Here is a portion of the assurance given to the believer. This is much more, more than sufficient for complete assurance of Eternal Salvation. This is not possible through anything that is done or not done by the believer. Whose Power is being exercised to keep the believer from falling and presenting the believer as faultless to HIS GLORY with exceeding joy? The assurance is magnified by Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.

Eternal Life and Salvation:

First, I don't know of any person who has gone from being a true believer to total apostasy. As a result, this would represent a stretched hypothetical. For the sake of this conversation, lets say this is possible and has happened. If this has happened, I would think INSANITY would be the cause. This stretched hypothetical would be one of the main arguments for those who theorize "Once Saved, Not Always Saved". Regardless, this is the subject of this post.

Ephesians 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The believer was saved by a gift from God, a gift that was NOT earned or deserved in any way. The believer's only part is "saved through faith;" and immediately following is, "and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" (verse 8 ) Verse 9 makes it clear that Salvation had nothing to do with the works of the believer, further verifying that the believer did nothing to earn Salvation. Verse 10 is interesting and powerful, especially when you consider, "For we are his workmanship,". This "workmanship" does not refer to sinful man, rather of the new man created in Christ Jesus. (Verse 10) The believer is a new creation, born again in Christ Jesus. Regeneration and sanctification of this new creature is wrought by the Almighty Power of God's Grace in the heart of the believer. It's also interesting to note that the new believer is prepared for good works, again by the Almighty Power of God's Grace. Ephesians 2:8-10 truly explains why Salvation is a gift of God and is wrought by the Almighty Power of God. Man did very little or nothing to obtain this priceless Gift. Man really only has a part in the belief and faith for Salvation. God sent the invitation to believe, and the believer accepted the invitation.

How much knowledge and how much faith is required for a man to believe and receive Salvation? We must remember that the Almighty Power of God's Grace is working in the heart of the believer. We must also remember the pitiful state of sinners when they believe. All of the Bible clearly proves that men have no merit, righteousness, or any other value that would represent ANY payment for the Gift of God's Grace. Salvation is a work started and finished by God, and Salvation is the purpose of God.

Let's try to answer the question of faith. How much faith belongs solely to the sinner when they accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour? Is any of this faith given or strengthened by God? Let's make a comparison before trying to answer this question. When a Christian is said to be built up in the faith, does the Christian do the building? A strong Christian is said to have strong faith. Did this strong Christian build this faith himself, or was the faith a work of God? I'm not making light of the long hours of study or submission to God's will in the building of faith. However we know that Salvation is a Gift of God and not of works. Go back to Ephesians 2:8 and see what words come right before, "and that not of yourselves:". Who gives and builds faith? See Romans 12:3 below.

Rom 12:3  For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

So, what part of Salvation did man earn, deserve, or work for? Isn't it true that man simply accepted an invitation to believe? What does man do to keep his Salvation? Can man be righteous or holy? Is is possible for man to completely abstain from sin? Does a believer perform good works alone, or does the believer receive help, guidance, and support from God? Does the believer keep himself, or has God promised to keep His own? Is there any glory in man, or does all of the glory reside in God? Is Salvation a spiritual accomplishment of man, or is Salvation wholly a Gift by God's Grace? See Ephesians 2:2-7, Romans 6:5, and Romans 3:24-28 below.

Ephesians 2:2  Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Ephesians 2:3  Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Ephesians 2:4  But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Ephesians 2:5  Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Ephesians 2:6  And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
Ephesians 2:7  That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:2-7 really speak for themselves, but I would like to point out a few highlights. Please see Ephesians 2:5 and give special attention to the word, "quickened". Just prior to the moment of belief, we were all dead in sins. After the moment of belief, the new believer is reborn, regenerated, and made alive (quickened) in Christ Jesus. The believer is alive and belongs to Christ. Ephesians 2:6 states the believer will sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. Please notice in Ephesians 2:7 that it is still the exceeding riches of God's Grace and kindness shown to the believer through Christ Jesus. This clearly indicates the believer still lacks merit except through Christ Jesus.

Eternal Life and Salvation:

2 Timothy 2:10  Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:11  [It is] a faithful saying: For if we be dead with [him], we shall also live with [him]:
2 Timothy 2:12  If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us:
2 Timothy 2:13  If we believe not, [yet] he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

First, it should be obvious that true believers are being addressed with these verses. Our Salvation is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory (verse10). A true believer is crucified with Christ and lives with Christ (verse 11). See quotes from Romans 6:3-11 below. A true believer will live with Christ, as Christ lives, forever (verse 11). If the believer denies God, He will deny the believer (verse 12). What is it that will be denied? Is Salvation denied or revoked? See 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 below for the answer. Reward is denied, NOT SALVATION. Man has no effect on the Truth, Purity, and Promise of God. God cannot lie, and God cannot deny Himself (verse13).

Romans 6:3  Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:4  Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:5  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
Romans 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Romans 6:7  For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Romans 6:8  Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Romans 6:9  Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Romans 6:10  For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Romans 6:11  Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 3:11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:12  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1 Corinthians 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Corinthians 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1 Corinthians 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

GOD SAID IT, IT'S DONE!