Tribulation--The Tribulation is a past event, being fulfilled in the judgement on Jerusalem in A.D. 70.  (Matthew 24:34; 23:36)

Oklahoma Howdy to joelkaki,

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I wouldn't give a single thought to the above. We would simply have to agree to disagree. I couldn't possibly have a serious conversation about that as a premise, so I won't try. Nothing else would make any sense either, so count me out on that discussion.

Tom

Hoekstra Devotion - February 29

More on the Crucial Choice: Flesh or Spirit:

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.  (Gal_6:7-8)

One of the unchangeable aspects of being a Christian is that God offers only two choices for all of the issues that we will encounter day by day; namely, "live according to the flesh" or "live according to the Spirit." (Rom_8:5). Also, the consequences accompanying these options are inevitable, because of the certainties of sowing and reaping. "Whatever a man sows, that he will also reap." When an apple seed is planted, an apple tree is the only possible plant that can result. Whatever category of seed is put into the ground, that is the only type of crop that can ever be reaped.

Our present passage reveals that these agricultural absolutes apply just as certainly to the planting of spiritual seeds in our lives. We only have two types of seeds to plant ("flesh" or "Spirit"), leading to only two types of harvest ("corruption" or "everlasting life").

The first set of seeds and harvest offers an ominous warning. "He who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption." The seeds in view here are words, deeds, and attitudes that would range from self-service toself-sufficiency. The harvest predicted from these carnal seeds is described as"  corruption." This speaks of destruction and decay. For a person whose entire life is only characterized by sowing "to his flesh," this destruction would be eternal. This would depict one who never planted any seed of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Such a one would die in sin and guilt, separated from God for eternity. For a born again believer, who persistently or intermittently yields to carnal temptations, this would warn of subsequent loss of spiritual vitality and fruitfulness on earth now, plus loss of heavenly blessings later.

The second set of seeds and harvest extends an encouraging expectation. "But he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life." The seeds referred to here are words, deeds, and attitudes that result from us humbly depending upon the Spirit of God to work in and through us. This brings an increasing spiritual crop described as "everlasting life." This would be similar to Jesus' statement: "I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly" (Joh_10:10). This promises fullness of life now, and great rewards in glory later.

O merciful Father, I humbly repent of the innumerable occasions when I sowed fleshly seeds in word and deed. The crop that resulted was always destructive. Thank You for cleansing me through the blood of Christ. Now, Lord, by faith I ask You to bring forth through my life a new harvest of spiritual abundance, by Your Holy Spirit, Amen.

Welcome aboard!

I'm positive you will find your strength and growth in the daily study of God's Word. I hope you enjoy it here.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hello Chome,

Welcome to Christians Unite. I will second what my Brother JudgeNot told you. Faith in Jesus Christ and accepting HIM as your personal Lord and Saviour is definitely the highest priority right now.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hello All,

First, I apologize for being out of pocket most of the last two days. We had a funeral in the family and I've not felt well enough to do much. I really don't like making excuses, especially considering how fascinated I am with this topic.

I think there might be a reasonable compromise that everyone could live with. What about having a separate presentation for each differing view? I don't know how many that would be. I'm positive there are at least three, maybe more (i.e. no Rapture at all, Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Mid-Tribulation Rapture, and Post-Tribulation Rapture. What if the best case for each view could be made in a separate thread without any interruption or debate at all? What if yet another thread was reserved for discussion and debate of the various views?

This is just a thought that would allow a complete picture of each view. I also think it would be much quicker and without so much aggravation in trying to complete a thought without being side-tracked. What does everyone think about this?

My belief could be summarized easily. I believe there are multiple end times and events with a Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church. I think it would even be possible to do a brief with the times and events in chronological order.  

Just two cents worth. What do all of you think?

Love In Christ,
Tom

   I've been speending a lot of time on another Christian board they have a chat room system I chat sofar they don't seen to heve trouble with trolls in chat and very little on the boards. I don't know how they don't.

Hello Brother Forrest,

Do you know if it was limited to text only without links, URLs, and pictures? If so, I might know what they did. It's not that difficult with the right software to filter out gutter language and maybe even automatically notify the moderator or the webmaster about the person trying to use that language. It's impossible to design a filter that catches everything.

I've played a little bit with the separate chat program I told everyone about, and it works great. I haven't gotten very fast with it yet, but it seems to be pretty easy, and a considerable number of users at once does not appear to be a problem. I'll do some more checking and get back with you.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ice Cream?

You must think I'm a real youngun eh?

I'm 22 actually.

Oklahoma Howdy to bemanisuperstar,

   I'm wearing socks older than you are, and I still love ice cream. My wife of 31 years loves it too, but we don't share the same bowl these days. We just can't agree on a flavor and toppings.

Love In Christ,
Tom

AMISH VIRUS:



You have just received the Amish Virus. Since we do not have electricity nor computers, you are on the honor system.
Please delete all of your files.

Thank thee.

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Forrest,

     Thanks, I needed that laugh.

I only have one question. Since my only computer is an abacus, I guess that means I have to go in and move all the beads around, right?  

I just got another laugh thinking some of the younger folks won't have a clue what an abacus is...........  Forrest, I'll tell you a secret, but don't tell anyone else. I have all of my files backed up on a second abacus.  

Love In Christ,
Tom

Now that's just silly.  Have you even polled a significant number of woodchucks to determine the willingness of the general population?  

Oklahoma Howdy to Allinall,

     ACTUALLY, I was somehow abandoned as an infant in the wild and was raised by a family of woodchucks. Maybe you saw me on Animal Planet.

Yes I am very shy.

I belong to a church with some very pretty females but I can never talk to them. Plus they never really talk to me either.

Oklahoma Howdy to bemanisuperstar,

Try inviting everyone in your age group for ice cream after church and make sure you attend any social activities your church might have. I don't know how old you are, but I suppose that you might want to get married some day. Sooner or later, you will have to talk to a real, live woman.    It's possible they aren't talking to you because they think you don't like them. After all, you aren't talking to them. If you are a Christian, pray about it and everything will work out in the Lord's time.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Tom, is there a way that we can keep this thread from getting side tracked? Anyone who reads this first post will see what we are trying to do here but this first post will get buried quickly and our format will be lost. As long as people read this first post things will work but once we get going, it could become a free for all again which is what we are trying to prevent so we stay on track, issue by issue until conclusions can be reached. Let me know what you can think of to keep this from happening on this thread.

                                                              Paul2

Oklahoma Howdy to Paul2,

We'll do the best we can. I know of one not mentioned in your first post who would like to turn this into a "There is no Rapture" thread. I will simply help Wopic start his own thread on the opposite topic, and he will not be allowed to disrupt this Bible Study.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hoekstra Devotion - February 28

The Crucial Choice: Flesh or Spirit:

Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.  (Rom_8:5-6)

The crucial choice that believers in Christ face day by day is between living by the flesh or living by the Spirit. The difference concerns facing life by our resources and perspectives or by God's. "Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit." When a Christian deals with life by his flesh, he typically thinks about "what I want out of my life" or "what I can accomplish with my life." Conversely, when a Christian deals with life by the Spirit, he typically thinks about "what God wants for my life" or "what God can accomplish through my life."

The consequences related to this choice are monumental. "For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." When a believer allows his mind to be set in a carnal direction, he will be thinking about worldly self-indulgence ("what I can get out of this") or religious self-accomplishment ("what I can do for God"). The result of either carnal perspective is "death" (spiritual deadness). On the other hand, when a follower of Jesus sets his mind on heavenly matters, he will be considering issues of humility ("how much I need the Lord") or faith ("how great the Lord is"). The results of such spiritual thoughts are "life and peace" (spiritual vitality and spiritual tranquility).

Another analysis of these two options can be seen in the contrast between the "works of the flesh" and the "fruit of the Spirit." When we put our hope in our own capabilities, our flesh produces deeds such as "adultery, fornication, uncleanness, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like" (Gal_5:19-21). Contrariwise, when we place our expectations upon the Lord, His Spirit brings forth through us fruit like "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" (Gal_5:22-23).

Consider this fundamental truth. These "flesh-Spirit" choices are what all of us will face every day of our lives. The persistency of these issues is inherent in the fact that God only offers two options for every issue of life; namely, "live according to the flesh" or "live according to the Spirit."

O Sovereign Lord, I bow to Your wisdom and authority that offers these two choices alone. Lord, I renounce the natural path of my flesh which brings severe, but deserved, consequences. I gladly embrace the supernatural path of Your Spirit, which brings the undeserved results of Your grace at work in me, Amen.

Hoekstra Devotion - February 27

Set Free by the Spirit:

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.  (Rom_8:2)

There is a destructive spiritual tendency that resides in every human being. It is "the law of sin and death." This indwelling principle is always pulling people downward into sin and spiritual deadness. It comes from being born physically into a fallen race of sinners who are like their earthly father, Adam. Being born anew spiritually does not remove this problem, since this principle still operates within our natural humanity (the flesh). Yet, becoming a child of God does make His remedy constantly available to us.

God's remedy for"the law of sin and death" is a higher, more powerful principle, "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus." This lofty principle involves the Holy Spirit making the life that is in Christ Jesus our resource for living. This principle is operating in the life of any new creature in Christ who is not walking  "according to the flesh but [is walking] according to the Spirit" (Rom_8:4). This approach to Christian living is the only one that can increasingly liberate us from the internal carnal tendencies that influence us all.

In fact (as we have noted previously), this is the only hope of growing in the godliness that the law demanded: "that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us" (Rom_8:4). Our lives can only measure up to the holy will of God when we are walking in the Spirit, because Christ is then being allowed to express His life through us. Jesus was, and is, the only one who could ever walk fully pleasing to the Father. Jesus said, "I always do those things that please Him" (Joh_8:29). For a victorious Christian experience, we need this same life of Jesus living in and through us now, by the working of the Holy Spirit. We need the higher law ("the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus") setting us free from the lower law ("the law of sin and death").

Again, what is our responsibility in this? We are to relate to the Lord in humility and faith. Humility can develop as we agree with our Lord that "the law of sin and death" characterizes our flesh (our best natural resources). Faith can be exercised as we look to our Lord to demonstrate that "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death."

Dear Lord Jesus,You alone can supply the life I am called to live. I humbly agree with Your word that my resources are marred by a tendency to sin. I gladly trust in Your Holy Spirit to increasingly liberate me from my the defeat of living by my flesh. I thank You in advance for the faithful ways You will answer this prayer. Lord Jesus, live in and through me by the power of Your Spirit, Amen.

pluperfect tense
A verb tense used to express action completed before a stated or implied past time. In English the pluperfect tense is formed with the past participle of a verb and the auxiliary verb had, as had learned in He had learned to skate before his fourth birthday.

Oklahoma Howdy to WillGreek,

Most of us here are just plain folks who love the Lord and His Word.

I have seen a past participle once, but I knew it had passed on and buried it.    We have some intellectuals here who could stay with you easily, but we come here to relax and fellowship in Christ.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? He would chuck all the wood that a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood.]

The answer is simply, none.  We are speaking of a hypothetical impossibility, as woodchucks are incapable of chucking wood.  Unless we are speaking of the Canuck Woodchuck, which has risen to the occassion.  At last report, the CWC's were effectively "chucking" wood at a distance of nearly 2 feet!  And, it would be most important to note, that they did so with all of the wood available to them.  In that instance - 42 sticks.

Oklahoma Howdy to Allinall,

Brother, I thought that I might have to help you with this, so here goes.

How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?


He would chuck all the wood that a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood.

See the perfect logic here?  

Love In Christ,
Tom