Forrest,

I'm not x-JW, but I understand that being so makes you almost Satan himself right?

I have a few Q's .  What is the significance, to JW's, to insist that Jesus was "impaled on a stake" instead of nailed to a cross.  I've debated this a few times with them (with their NWT) and don't understand the significance they place on it.  In either case Jesus died, was impaled with nails and a spear--either on a cross or stake.  Are they just trying to disagree with mainstream christianity or what?

Do you have any insight into the name "Watchtower Society" and the tradition it's used in?  The term "watchtower"  is also used in Wicca, for apparently the same thing.

What are some insights you may have in how we can witness to them better than we do?

Can you comment more on their training and how they present their case at your door, to better arm us in avoiding the pitfalls and red herrings they use so fluently.


My particular MO tends to be to defeat the NWT they claim their faith is founded on, and reveal that it is not a reliable source of truth.  I realise I will probably never argue them into christianity that way, but then again, I wouldn't by useing a Bible they considered less reliable than the NWT either.  My primary goal is to reveal the unreliable nature of their Bible, and religion, so they have something to chew on untill they either deal with it, and investigate further what is true, or they ignore it.  Either way they make their choice, but at least it was a little more informed than before they came to my door.

I understand what it is to be raised in a religion that does not know Jesus but thinks they do, and convinces you, that you do, so each time I talk to JW's I assume that at least one of them was led to my door by God to hear reasons to look deeper, and find the truth they think they allready have.

You can probably find thousands of pictures on the Internet if you're not familiar with this term. They come in various sizes, colors, and materials. It's used for idol worship. Use any search engine for additional details. If you use Google, you can click for a picture and actually see one.

The statue of Buddha is not worshipped as an idol as we think about Idol worship.  It is viewed as an icon, to help the medditator focus and release the power of his imagination, (witchcraft) as the Buddha did. The understanding is not that the statue or the man it represents will help them, but that they can help themselves by following his example. ( The Mormon & JW "Jesus")  They believe the buddha is allready within them (the meditator) and it only needs to be released, through focusing their mind.  The "idol" is not the statue or picture of the Buddha.  The idol of the buddhist is himself.

We see this same philosophy today in mainstream media with montras like, "If you believe it, you can achieve it" , and, "...if you want it bad enough", and on page 41, & 96 of the Satanic Bible, by Anton Szandor LaVey

Buddhism, simply put, is white witchcraft.  They see themselves as potential gods, or wrather, enlightened beings, which they see as higher than gods.  (in buddhism, gods are seen as a bunch of lazy, partying beach bumbs, mindlessly existing.)  According to the Dalai lama, in the foreward to the book, "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying", written by buddhist master Sogyal Rinpoche,  Buddhism is nothing more than practicing to die (meditation) so one can encounter the terror of dying with a peace of mind sufficient to gain good karma, and thereby be reincarnated to a higher level of existence in his next life, untill enlightenment is attained.  On page 116-117, Rinpoche claimes that a god is the result of negative karma--a lesser life form than human.  Buddhists invite demonic possesion, and see the "release of the buddah inside us all" as freedom from any and all desire.  They appeal to ancient "wisdom" and tradition as a proof of truth--yet noone has ever come back from the dead to verify that buddhism is true.  In the Bible, in Christianity, we see exactly that happen.  God proved the Savior, Jesus, was the Messiah, by raising Him from the dead. (Acts 17:31)

There is no room for Jesus in the Buddhist tradition.  They believe blindly, that each individual person is responsible for his own salvation from the cycle of reincarnation, to the state of being of "enlightenment".  (p. 61)  Like all cults (spelled occult) we see today, they emphasize believing the teachings of tradition blindly, and absolutely, with no other reason than the ancient ones believed it.

The closest that buddhists get to Jesus, is to deny everything about Him, but that He existed, and taught good things.

HAAAH!!!  Way to go PR!  Thats what I figgure to do too, if they won't be swayed by what I say, at least they won't be talking to others who might be decieved. .   The last time I had a couple JW's at the door say they were Christians too, I simply said , "no your not, and I can prove it with your own book, can I see it?"  They apparently wern't prepared for that and asked if they could come back sometime and talk to my girlfriend  (it was her house and she wasn't home)  I said that would be fine, she's a Christian too.   Never seen them again.  Now I have to call them up and have them come over, or waylay them in a parking lot or hamburger joint.  Same with the other door knockers.  I'm probly gonna have to move soon, so they come over again.

Thats kind of the funny part.  They try soooo hard to not ' look like ' the occult, but the pamphlets they hand out at the door are full of occult philosophy.

I guess if they really don't want to looc occultish,  maybe they should become Christian   

   9 'I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

The only "synagogue" I know of that claim to be Jews and are not are the Mormons.
D&C 52:2
  2 Saying: I, the Lord, will make known unto you what I will that ye shall do from this time until the next conference, which shall be held in Missouri, upon the aland which I will bconsecrate unto my people, which are a cremnant of Jacob, and those who are heirs according to the dcovenant.

As to the debate of weather this passage in Rev. referres to present or future, Mormonism has existed since Gen. 3, under different aliases. IMO

Basically, there are two reasons they believe a lie.

One is because they don't want to know the truth:

Romans 1:18-23

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

The other is because they don't know there is reason to recognize the fallacy of their belief system.
This one, of course, reverts back to the first, they don't know because they don't want to.  God works in them though, and I believe there is that little voice in the back of their mind that says, "...look, listen, search..."  I figgure that these are the ones God leads to my door.  Though the first posts on this topic were excellent (I've only read the first page so far), bringing up articles that question their past is pretty much meaningless to the practicing JW (IMO) because it is debateable.  That is why I like to use their own Bible ( the NWT ) against them, because they have it in their hand and claim allegiance to it, as the authority they believe.  Once I show them the book in their own hand is unreliable as a source of truth, their arguments then are meaningless.  They will argue, but the fact remains, I've raised the question, and given it a face.  It's in their mind, and they must deal with it.  If they choose to ignore it, thats their problem, but if they don't, then they may become the next champion for Christ to the JW's.

Thanks Willow  ,


When my grandpa died, my only regret was that I never went hunting with him.  It was a regret I felt deep down, not real heavy, but it was there.  By the time I was old enough, and had the money to buy an out-of-state License, he was not able to enjoy a hunting trip any more.

The night before his funeral, I had a dream.  All I can remember about that dream was a phesant folding up in a cloud of feathers in front of my barking shotgun, and grandpa was there.  I've never been phesant hunting, and allways wanted to try it.

In the morning, that sense of regret that I felt for not having gone hunting with grandpa was gone, and in its place was a sense of satisfaction...that ain't the right word...I knew we had gone hunting together and had the time of our...lives()

Was it real, or imagined? Was it just a dream??  It didn't hit me as just a dream, no dream I ever had remained with me like that did.  I don't know what it was really, but what is crystal clear was that Jesus did something for me that nite, and I was overjoyed, and at peace.  I still look foreward to our next hunting trip, but if it never happens, we'll be in His house forever, and it won't matter.

I don't know why I wrote that, but I'm trusting that I was led to.

Cleaned up how?

e-mail it back to me with highlighted examples.   Oh, and I finally found MS Word on my computer  , so I'll run it through spell check.

Better yet, why don't you post it. Start a new thread.  

As you can see now, there are considerable # of quotes from mormon "scripture" in it.   Do you still think it's acceptable??

the argument that you are standing on is the same argument that many use to support their actions of praying for the dead.

No kidding???   Who might that be?  I've never heard anyone use this argument supporting prayer for the dead.  Useually they try to reason that their souls are in purgatory or some other holding tank that they can get out of.

Ouch!  Ok guys, you win  .  I made a couple jumps in reasoning you guys filled in.  Good Job, and thanks.

And yes PR, this is exactly what I asked for, and why.   I didn't see the jumps I made, but suspected they were there.  Well done amigos.

Just use my screen name please (like its that different )  I been a big enough pain to them on other forums that I'm sure they would love to find out who I am.

And by all means, if you find it worthy, distribute it at church.

Don't know if you would be interested but I wrote a paper on witnessing to mormons.  I e-mailed it to John for him to consider for his web sit about a week ago.  My approach is to defeat their own doctrines, with their own doctrines.  Just useing the Bible isn't enough with them because they believe the doctrine's of God are progressive---allways evolving.  The bible was accurate only at that time, but now the new revelations are more accurate for this time.  Also, if you reveal to them the true scriptural doctrine of salvation, what they hear you saying is that we are saved by Satans plan.


WARNING: Useing it will make you more of a pain in their you-know-what than you allready are.

[AMEN]

I deal with them everyday, as out of the 250 people here. Only 6 aren't mormon. 
AMEN!!

 

"Here..." as in on the forum, or at your work?