It you are right and speaking in tongues isnt for everyone then why did Jesus say in verse 17 of Mark Chapter 16 And these signs shall follow them that believe: IN my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues.

He didnt say some were going to he said it for everone that believes.

Sorry for the last post I hit the wrong button,

Php,
       No it doesn't say all will speak in tongues if you take the complete idea in mind.  I Cor 12: speaking about the spiritual gifrs from the Holy Spirit, some will have certain gifts, we are all a part of the body of CHrist some have certain abilities that others don't. Like the body each part has a certain duty, or job to do. IF all spoke in tongues what good would it do? IF we were all a foot how would we feed the people? If we were all a mouth who could love the people........ you surely can understand this simple fact. Speaking in tongues is NOT a requirement to get into heaven. There is only one way into Heaven, and that it through Jesus Christ.
     The Matt scripture you offered is referring too the obligation that CHristians should have to spread the good news, Matt 28:18  All authrotiy in heaven and earth..therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the ..teaching them to obey......surely I will be with you always......
       Mark 16:15  Give us the same commission only it written by Mark to the Christians of Rome, where Matthew is address the commission to the Jews. The main point is go spread the good news, it may require speaking in tongues, or handling snakes etc etc then do it becuase where ever you go I'll be there too. If the scripture you are using meant that we all must speak in tongues then it is also saying we must all handle snakes too.
The great commission is instructions to the people of God,  TELL that Jesus is Lord, he died for you, NOT you must speak in tongues so you can go to heaven. If that is the message your spreading you are in error to that commission. I pray that your eyes will be opened friend.

musicllover

musicllover

Kinda my editorial on Tongues,

Ok I made this post by accicent, so I'm going to fill in here.
I don't have a problem with anyone speaking in tongues. IF its done in line with the scriptures. IT is a gift of the Holy Spirit, the bible speaks of it, Pauls says not to forbid speaking in tongues. The troulbe is people abuse this gift, either using it to "prove" they are spirit filled, or better than some other person that doesnt have the gift. Still others go completely the other way and say this gift isn't for today, its of the devil etc etc etc.
Either way is in error to the word as I understand it. The debate over if Tongeus in a none langguage or unknown still doesn't void out that Tongues are allowed by the scriptures.
   Worse of these cases are those who insist that you must speak in tongues to go to heaven. I find that so very offensive, NO WHERE does Jesus ever say you must speak in tongues. If speaking in tongues saves then why do we need Jesus? It is the great sacrafice of our Lord and Savior that makes us worthy to even think about going to heaven. The gift (any of them) are here and should be used to his glory......every gift should direct a person toward Jesus Christ, and should reveal Jesus Christ as Lord and savior. Claiming tongues as a saving tool is absolutely wrong.

musicllover

It you are right and speaking in tongues isnt for everyone then why did Jesus say in verse 17 of Mark Chapter 16 And these signs shall follow them that believe: IN my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues.

He didnt say some were going to he said it for everone that believes.

Php,
     Can you please answer my question, you honestly believe if you don't speak in tongues, and have never been batized that you won't get into heaven?

musicllover

[It is physical proof that the Holy Spirit is within you.]

Wow,
you guys are truly truly missing a great big point.
Someone said
"Speaking in Tongues is a spiritual gift from God and is absolutely still working in followers of Christ today. It is physical proof that the Holy Spirit is within you. Not everyone is blessed with this particular gift but everyone has a special gift that was meant for them."
1st I just want to break down 3 steps of the plan of Salvation.
1 Believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ
2 Confess that you are a sinner and ask GOD to forgive you
3 Recieve Jesus as Lord and Saviour of you life. (This means you belong to HIM.)
Part 3 is the point when you receive the Holy Spirit because you can not receive Jesus but not receive the Holy Spirit. We agree they are one. So to say that if one does not speak in tounges the Holy Spirit is not abiding is very false.
Now this was a big issue then as it is now. That is the whole reason of this scripture that was earlier posted, yet totally ignored.
1 Corinthians 12: 28-31
28First, God chose some people to be apostles and prophets and teachers for the church. But he also chose some to work miracles or heal the sick or help others or be leaders or speak different kinds of languages. 29Not everyone is an apostle. Not everyone is a prophet. Not everyone is a teacher. Not everyone can work miracles. 30Not everyone can heal the sick. Not everyone can speak different kinds of languages. Not everyone can tell what these languages mean. 31I want you to desire the best gifts. [a] So I will show you a much better way.
Please let GOD's word speak for it self. Please do not close your mind and be unteachable because we can never know everthing about GOD.
I am not saying no one has tounges, I am saying that it is not the evidence of the Holy Spirit. So if you don't have the gift, then that is because GOD did not give it to you and that is HIS will.
Amen.

Sorry but I disagree. In John Chapter 3 we find that where Nicodemus came to Jesus to ask what he must do. Jesus answers and says that you MUST be born of the water and and the spirit to enter heaven.
Therefore baptism is essential to salvation and be born of the spirit is to recieve the Holy Ghost which is with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Acts chapter 2 says they were ALL filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke with other tongues. Not a few speaking in tongues, a few prophecying but ALL were speaking in tongues.

Php,
     I am afraid this is the opinion that has cast a shadow on the gifts. And that many, including myself find very offensive. I have been blessed with the gift of praying in tongues, and I don't believe the scriptures supports your understanding or teaching at all.  What your saying here is If you don't have such and such gift, and you haven't been batized then you don't get into heaven.... BUT, excuse me while I (you) take time to pat yourself on the back...... because you do speak in tongues, and because you got wet and called it a baptism.

Please read the scriptures in its complete context. You've just took everything that Jesus Christ did on the cross and gave it several prerequisites that are not support by the scriptures as a whole, .......
the way you your teaching there should be a signed posted at they the gates of Heaven.
BEFORE ENTERING INTO THE PEARLY GATES (putting aside the fact that Jesus Died for ALL)
Rule 1.
          You must speak in Tongues
Rule 2.
          You must be baptized with water
Rule 3.
           If you don't have any of the above take a left and watch that last step.

You don't honestly believe that everyone is doom to the gates of hell because they don't speak in tongues or not been baptized do you?

musicllover

     I can't say anything about the 9/11 movie, I refused to support/see the movie because of what I seen in the bowling for Columbine movie that I had to watch for a college.
    Columbine moive, I disliked that moive, because it was written like the gospel according to Michael, this is TRUTH, when it was his truth only. It was the twist to make evil look good......an interview with Marilyn Manson (my papa phrase) where Manson says.... the boys who did the shooting were misunderstood kids, society let these boys down, so in ohter words Manson is saying..SHAME ON SOCIETY.

     What is wrong with that, its true right,...GOOD GRIEF we all can agree those kids were misunderstood,... most murders do have issues obviously....., here is the twist, Manson says soicety let them down....yet it was HIS music they were listening too, building alter to the devil while they listened to his music about killing and suicide, he is the part of the society that let the kids down with the garbage he sings, Manson lead our kids astray, he claimed his music didn't have anything to do with the shootings, and if he'd had the oppertunity he would have sit down and listen to those boys....... WHAT!!!!!, he sings about satan, blood, guts, gore, suicide, rebellion, totally anti christian....yet he is the nice guy and call soicety the bad guy. Both manson and moore pointed the finger of guilt on the next guy.
   
    The way moore works is like a magician and his magic trick with mirrors elements of truth but a littel turn this way or that then you have a completely different view. ANd that really really goes agiasnt the Spirit of God that lives in me.
Moores productions causes more confusion (who is the father of confusion and lies?), what good does his films cause?,
       
 The scriptures tell us what to do with the Moores of this world, .....You will know them by the fruits they bare......
....if they can't say Jesus is Lord.....
     The real issues with Moore, for me, its in the way he portrays his views, he is a modern day false prophet and using his money and influence in his so called documentaries, which are suppose to be unbiased. You admit to seeing  the slant, why would anything that takes away from Christain values be good for society?  He is a wart on societies behinds as far as I am concerned.
musicllover

FUNERAL PROCESSION


 
       A woman was leaving a convenience store with her morning coffee
 when she noticed a most unusual funeral procession approaching the nearby
 cemetery.  A long black hearse was followed by a second long black hearse
 about 50  feet behind the first one. Behind the second hearse was a solitary
 woman  walking a pit bull on a leash. Behind her, a short distance back,
 were  about 200 women walking single file.
      The woman was so curious that she respectfully approached the
 woman walking  the dog and said, "I am so sorry for your loss, and I know now is
 a bad time to disturb you, but I have never seen a funeral like this.
 
    Whose funeral is it?"

     "My husband's."
 
     "What happened to him?"
 
      The woman replied, "My dog attacked and killed him."

      She inquired further, "Well, who is in the second hearse?"

      The woman answered, "My mother-in-law. She was trying to help my
 husband  when the dog turned on her."
 
       A poignant and thoughtful moment of silence passed between the two
 women.
 
       "Can I borrow the dog?"
       "Get in line."
 

       A Woman's Prayer:
 
       Dear Lord,
 
       I pray for:
       Wisdom, To understand a man.
       Love, To forgive him and;
       Patience, For his moods.
       Because, Lord, if I pray for Strength
       I'll just beat him to death.

I would like to put a link from Christian Unite on my web page, can I do that and how? I can explain more about my page if you need it. But its an online pharmacy, that I want to make a tool for Christ.
THanks,
musicllover

We all have moments where our walk with Jesus defies logic and reason.

Ummm....like every day?  Why I believe has little to do with logic and reason.  My faith is against all logic and reason.  I can't have debates with my atheist husband because he always uses logic and reason and you can't debate with faith.  But it doesn't matter.  I still believe because God has shown me the truth.

Faith is believing even when all logic and reason says you're nuts.

Melody,
           I appreciate your word of encouragement, and ya several times a day I wonder what the am I doing, is there PROOF is there a real reason that I believe in God, or that his son died for me. I suppose in the carnal world there is none. But something that I have NEVER been able to deny is that there has ALWAY been a KNOWING inside of me that there is a God, and for some odd reason he loves me. Its hard for me to imagine that kind of love, but then I when Ihad children of my own and knew that special kind of love I think I can relate.
     Its no coincedence that this is about the 5 or 6th time I've heard this or similiar statements this week.....about faith, it has no logic or reason it just is. My own son had to write a paper for a collage class and he said the same thing. I heard in on the radio, I read my husband something in that same direction.
 Yesterday during my quiet time I prayed that the Lord would help me with the all that lay ahead, to forgive me for the foolish decisions I had made, I wanted to start over, spiritually and financally completely, I also asked for him to open my mind and help me with my algebra test coming up next week. (SO much depends on me passing algebra this sem. so I can go on to my junior year in collage, I'm working toward a teaching degree) Good Lord is really talking to me these days.
 I opened up a devotion I recieve in my email and this was my devotional Scripture, from Isa. 30: 20-21 ALthought the Lord give you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, your teachers will be hidden no more, with our own eyes you will see them. Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you sayng" this is the way, walk in it.

Isn't God good, not only was he telling me that he was directing me, but I felt that even this scripture was telling me to listen carefully to my Alg. teacher as well. I made a copy and taped it to my computer.
Starting over is hard, to not walk in the same path as before, obviously that path wasn't the right one, but I know the Sprit it my guide, I believe somehow I am on the right path, but its not anything I have done.

musicllover

[sherk posted:]

The reason that I did not respond to your post yesterday because after responding to Musicllover, it was time to take a break and watch football.  What I posted yesterday was prior to Sunday School and Church and prior to football after Chruch.

sherk posted:

We werent arguing about any of those topics what are you talking about???  That was totally random.  Big D you never responded to my post so i can only believe that you have no argument and that i am right.  HAHA. VICTORY.

What I posted previously was not for your benefit; but for Mulicllover's, in response to his questions, and desire to know more about dispensationalism.

Dainel 9 does not specificly say that a peace treaty must be signed PRIOR to the beginning of the Tribulation. It does state that one will be signed and broken in the middle.

I do believe that there will be a peace treaty signed very shortly after the Tribulation is resumed.

If you will SHOW ME from Scripture that Jeol, in 2:28-32 is not speaking of the Tribulation, and/or Peter in Acts 2:15-20 doesn't know where he is in the prophetic time clock, THEN I WILL ADMIT THAT YOU HAVE VICTORY. HAHA

I have requested the above from other, and they still have not shown me what I requested. Even PROMISED to change my views if they did. So, if you wish for me to change my views - SHOW ME

The reasons that I participate in these forum discussions are twofold. It is to learn, to have my knowledge of the Bible broadened, and to express my views as to what I believe the Bible teaches on various subjects.

As I have stated earlier, I am still in the learning mode.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

BigD,
        Sorry to make you work so hard, I thought a simple yes or know might have worked, I printed off your responses and will try to get them read sometime this week. I have classes to attend and I also am in the process of tyring to hook up to an internet business.
     From what I have been able to find on the Act passage, with all the cross referencing Joel is referring the the second coming of Chris, Peter is using that as an example of what those days will be like. Telling on looker this is not drunkeness, this is what the second coming of Christ will be like, Peter is not referring to the rapture, but referring to the after tribulation party... . I know you want the black and white of it all. And I will try one of these days, but just to be safe, don't hold your breath waiting on me. Unless of coarse you have GOOOOOOOD lungs. There are far superior teachers on board.
    I do want to commend you on your Godly spirit in learning, so so much better than the nasty stuff that can come up with differences. Lastly, still the rapture before, during or end has nothing to do with ones salvation just one location at some point in the future  . Be at peace.
blessings,
musicllover

I saw a request, for a Michael Moore troll somewhere. So for that person, here you go.

 haaa,haa,haaa!!!
Hey wiat a minute! That's an insult to Jaba!    


Bronzesnake

 That would be me, See I just knew it, he is one of the head trolls for sure,  
rofl.

musicllover

Thommy,
            I try very hard not to get personal in my debates, I simple would like to exchange idea and opinions, its when the opposing view starts to belittle the scriptures, Jesus Christ, twisting words, reading your mind, begin to get personal that is what makes a troll. I come to learn and teach what I can as I understand it, none of us has all the answers, but there are some really smart people here for or against your own personal ideas, and then again you have those who want to argue and cause trouble,(a troll). THere are ways to agree to disagree with out the attacks. Granted its not always easy to understand what a person intent is, or what they really meant or was thinking and that can cause problems but when its explained and still the other person will not listen they become a troll.
I like to have debates, the chance to learning etc etc. But some can't seem to do that, I'll admit I get aggressive when it becomes my god is better than your GOd. As a Christian I do have a right to defend the word, and in this particular debate the life of the unborn. I will do that at all cost, the attacks on my grammer, or spelling that is just childish, so I play with it sometimes, and I'm sure that doesnt' always help, but I'm still very serious about any false teaching.
        As for our mod.'s I appreciate all they do to keep the forum Christ like. They understand the word, and DO defend it. This is not a one man show, there are several moderators here, which makes for a great balance, beside the owner of the site, and everything goes thru him as well, does it mean they defend it the way the understand it,probably so far I have agree with their defense of the word. I have been to other so called Christian sites, who allow anyone to post, NASTY and NOT Christ like, false teaching flying right and left, the truth of Gods word was lost in all the trash, another board I belonged to was mostly non rapture believers run by 3 mod, but 2 where married to each other, so tech 2 mod, on a world wide board, thousand and thousand posted, when I tried to report the abuse (cussing, downing Jesus, personal attack and threats) my posts were never responded too, the owner was gone, or possobly never recieved them since some of them were pm from on site...funny how one mod always knew when I did that not sure how that worked. The Mod claimed to be a Christian, but believed in evolution. Talk about OXY-MORON and if I posted anything to do with rapture she'd would blew me out of the water with her I'm "moderator" here and if you continue to post, When I tried to descuss creation with a evolutioninist the mod defended his personal attacks on the word!....... I would get so frustrated I did loose my cool and begin to post like everyone else. NOT GOOD nasty is contagious, it was like I caught the, if you can't beat up, join em desease....when I realized that I resigned. That won't happen here and I am so thankful.  
    I hope I'm not speaking out of turn but if you want to debate do so, just don't begin to twist the word and get personal. If you want to truly argue or get nasty there are several thousands of site to go to.
     I would find it very interesting to be able to speak to atheist, or muslims, agnostics, etc etc if they would come here willing to learn and not try to teach, or blast Christ, it would defaintly have to be on my turf, where the playing field is build on Christ. Troulbe is most do come here to, convert, or defend their faith which does cause troulbe cause I'll defend mine too.
     blessings,
musicllover

Dear musicllover, please be assured that you are not alone, that we are here praying for you and most of all that Jesus knows the emotions and feelings inside of your warm heart.  You are a treasure, even when you don't feel like you are.

Hebrews 10:23 says, “Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful.”

Please musicllover, hold on to Him, be blessed and rest in His love and grace.

God is good, and when He’s not good He’s excellent!

Silver

Ps, do you think that your husband is truly saved?

Silver,
        thank you so much, I feel closer to those here on this board than I do with my own church. I appreciate all the prayers and thought of each and everyone, I pray the Lord bless you ten fold for lifting this family in prayer.

musicllover

From: ________
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 8:47 AM
To: mike@michaelmoore.com
Subject: On behalf of my son, John

Dear Michael,

My step-son ________ has been in Iraq since March 19th. Last night he spoke to my husband on the phone (no, not a phone provided by the US government, an Iraqi satellite phone which he pays for himself). His unit got hit in a mortar attack. He watched one of his comrades get his legs blown off. His buddy tied tourniquets around the other soldier's legs and managed to stop arterial bleeding, luckily he is still alive.

_______ tried to give one soldier (a woman MP) CPR but she died in his arms

_______ said that this is the worst it's been since the "end" of the war. He said the troops have been given new rules of engagement, and that they are to "take out" any persons who aggress on the Americans, even if it results in "collateral" damage. Unfortunately, _______ did have to kill someone in self defense and was told by his commanding officer "Good kill."

_______ replied "You just don't get it, do you?".

Here we are...Vietnam all over again.

_______ is a peace-loving 25 year old who enlisted to pay off his undergraduate loans (45K!) and to get free grad school. He never believed he would be put in a situation like this.

My husband, who served in Vietnam, was a consultant to the defense industry for 20+ years. On March 19th he quit his job, (even though he had a ten year contract left) in protest of this administration's policies. Money is definitely tighter around our house but we wouldn't have it any other way!

I want to thank you for getting the truth out there, Michael. I no longer watch or read any mainstream media and have encouraged everyone I know to do the same. Your books and videos will be my Christmas gifts to everyone this year (including my right-wing family in Buffalo!).


Thank you, Thank you
Don't stop doing what you do!

___________
__________, Virginia
__________________

Hey someone got a picture of Michael Moore they can post on the troll site, he is their head troll.
Future Can,
              Do you honestly believe that this letter is going to fly on a Christian site? Maybe your young, maybe you don't know the truth about Mr Moore and his movie and most every movie has ever produced. But he is an idiot in the worse way, not a friend to Christians.......so why would you come to a Christian board and post this? Now if I am wrong forgive me but if your name has any reference to what you really believe and I am afraid it does, I'll help you pack.

musicllover

[I don't see your point, I didn't say you couldn't ilicit conversation. I was simply responding to your query.]

I was making a speculation to ilicit a response from you which is part'n'parcel in a discussion.  

OH I see you can speculate, to ilicit conversation only when that conversation goes your way and is only understood they way you want it understood. MY opinion it is INconceivable that God would use murder, which is contrary to his word.

I don't see your point, I didn't say you couldn't ilicit conversation. I was simply responding to your query.


 
So the victims had a choice... interesting take on that. Those firstborn which were killed had the choice and they chose disobedience... I've never heard that before, go figure.

I'm not surprised that would mean that you actually read the bible.

So you hold fast to the claim that the firstborn we are talking about were able to choose and made that choice for which they were killed by God?

OOKAY, what ever you want, you did begin to speak some truth with...."I don't think", which is the root of our problem here.  

So you have nothing valid to add. I suppose to you that means you should just attack me.      <---that's me not suprized.

But the truth is we aren't the ones complainging you are, and what a shame your opinion doesn't count, or maybe I should have said DIDN'T count.

Actually it did count. There are more of us who didn't vote than those who did. I would say that's a pretty big message to both parties that their candidates all stink.

PS, TROLLS DON"T LIKE TO EAT THEIR OWN WORDS......

P.S.
Post script is 2 words so when you type PS you should put the dots after the letters. Also it's 3 dots to symbolize "etc." Like this: Schools out...

Crystalmuddy,
            IF you could only read my response you would also know that I never said the baby had a choice BUT there parents did.

I will paste and copy my response to you that you seem to be having a problem understanding ...sigh....

Crystal,
You brought up the scriptures and posted them I simply was using your idea, (crazy as it is) that because God took the life (you call this murder) of all first borns, this some how justifies abortion,.... you still didn't answer my question.
Did God ever take the life of any first born of a believer? NO......why don't we ask ourselves what caused God to take those lives? Even some of the Isarealites didn't follow the direction so their first borns were dead too. Unbelief, rebellion, doubt, ingnorance caused the death of the first borns not God. God left a way out as he always does, and the unbelievers failed. A murder doesn't give anyone a choice, no one gives the innoncent baby a choice of life or death, and neither do the mothers who abort them or any who believe abortion is a choice.....

God did not murder the first borns he did allow their death, he did but the plan in motion and still he gave the people guidlines to keep the death angel from taking the life of their first born.

I am not sure what your problem is with the lack of obediance on the part of the PARENTS that caused the death of their first borns, or even facing the fact that abortion is murder, except you want to keep stirring the stink. I am weary of this, I truly am sorry that you have the idea that God kills babies, allows the killing of babies, or God has no problems with abortion, and finally God just lets the abortionist take care of his enemies for him we can't forget that (its not inconceivable).....

musicllover

almost forgot, that is s-u-p-r-i-s-e-d, unless your Gomer Pile,
P.S.... your a troll, how is that false teacher?

In your own words Crystal,

 "... Does God allow abortions to happen as part of his plan; it's not inconceivable is it? Perhaps these children would grow up to be enemies of God, I can't say...."

 You asked a question and then answered your own question with ..... ITS NOT INCONCEIVABLE IS IT?.....

I was making a speculation to ilicit a response from you which is part'n'parcel in a discussion.

OH I see you can speculate, to ilicit conversation only when that conversation goes your way and is only understood they way you want it understood. MY opinion it is INconceivable that God would use murder, which is contrary to his word.  

Possilbe you need to reread my intention here Crystal. I posted my understanding of why God took the life of the first borns, thier deaths were caused by disobedience of the people. God gave each house the oppertunity to save their children, they didnt' follow his mandates. There own disobediance caused the 1st childs death, NOT GOD. He set the plan in motion and the people were to carry out certain direction, some didn't.

So the victims had a choice... interesting take on that. Those firstborn which were killed had the choice and they chose disobedience... I've never heard that before, go figure.

I'm not surprised that would mean that you actually read the bible.

The part that makes no sense at all is when you implied that the killing of babies is not a sin,  
quote...." I don't think the Bible tells us that killing babies is a sin, in fact quite the contrary:.......Psalms 137......, and Exodus 12....

I didn't imply I made a hypothesis based on those passages. I don't actually believe that those passages speak to abortion per se, but that the killing of babies is not unjustified by God in certain situations.

OOKAY, what ever you want, you did begin to speak some truth with...."I don't think", which is the root of our problem here.  

Last but not least,
You have no right to say anything for or against the war, or the Pres, you didnt' vote.
again I quote you......" I refused to take part in the 2004 election based on the character of BOTH candidates....."
Your lack of a vote makes everything you say null and void, you gave up any right to complain about what the President does or doesnt' do when you didn't vote.

That's not the first time I've heard that one. How about this, YOU and anyone who voted for this president have no right to complain. Anyone who didn't vote for this president (including those who didn't vote for either) DO have the right to complain. We have the right to complain becuase this is fundamental to our constitution but coming down to your level, we have the right because the person you helped put in office creates things to complain about.  

But the truth is we aren't the ones complainging you are, and what a shame your opinion doesn't count, or maybe I should have said DIDN'T count.

musicllover

PS, TROLLS DON"T LIKE TO EAT THEIR OWN WORDS......