Peter,

What I saw was false and hypocrisy. So, after 50 years of using the KJV, I'm happily using a different translation. So, thanks for the expose.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hi Tom, your having abandoned the King James Bible as the most accurate Book on earth is a severe loss we Bible believers will not soon recover from.

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD.  And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it."   Amos 8:11-12


Will K

The argument that new versions leave so much out .....

There are many Greek and Hebrew manuscripts available that also vary in wording and in amount of text.

All of this arguing lends to even more division. It gives people the impression that KJV onlyist think they are better than anyone else. That they are the only ones saved and the only ones that are following the word of God. This sounds very much like many cults.

Hi Roger, Yes, there are many Greek and Hebrew manuscripts that vary in wording and amount of text.  The question is: Do we have a complete, inerrant and infallible Book around today in any language that IS NOW the pure words of God?

You apparently do not know, or care, or believe such a Book exists.

As for your false allegations that we KJB believers think we are better than anyone else or the only ones saved, this is totally untrue.  I know full well I am a wretched sinner who deserves hell for my many sins.  If I know anything of truth, it is by the sovereign grace of God.  Neither I nor the vast majority of KJB believers I know of think that we are the only ones saved.  Have I said anything at all to imply otherwise?  No.  Then why do you come up with such silly accusations against us?


Roger, the only great difference between the King James Bible believer and a multiple choice, "No Bible is inspired or inerrant", Bible of the Month Club member like yourself is that we believe there really is an inspired and inerrant Book on this earth and you do not.  You can still be a saved child of God using an inferiour bible version that is not inerrant and is perverted in many ways.  Salvation is not the issue.  The Inspiration, inerrancy and preservation of the words of God is the issue, and on this you and I disagree.  But please, don't overstate your case and try to make yourself out to be some kind of martyr for the cause of "any version will do" and make the Bible believer out to be some kind of a cultist just because he believes The Bible is inerrant when you do not.

Will

Hi Judge not.  An interesting article but it is way too general.  It never gets down to specific verses, names, numbers nor does it mention anything about the literally thousands of words and anywhere from 15 to 40 entire verses found in some Bible versions but not in others.

Why do you suppose that the recent polls show 85% of the seminarians and future pastors at America's largest evangelical seminary openly admit that they do not believe in the inerrancy of Scripture?

I have at least 100 examples I could show you, but for the moment I will limit it to just one such example.  Can you tell us which of these various "inspired and inerrant" bible versions is right and which ones have an error?

In 1 Samuel 6:19 the King James Bible reads: “And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.”

The Bible versions that read 50,070 are the King James Bible, Wycliffe 1395, Coverdale 1535, Bishop's Bible 1568, the Geneva Bible of 1599, the Italian Diodati 1602, Webster's 1833, the Revised Version 1881, American Standard Version 1901, the Greek Septuagint, the Spanish Reina Valera of 1909 and 1960, both the 1917 and 1936 Hebrew-English translations from the Masoretic text, the New American Standard Version 1960 -1995, modern Italian, the Modern Greek bible, the Portuguese, French and Rumanian bibles, the World English Bible, the modern Hebrew Names Version, as well as the Third Millenium Bible and the 21st Century KJV. These versions translate what the preserved Hebrew texts actually read.

However the NIV, RSV, ESV tell us in 1 Samuel 6:19 "But God struck down some of the men of Beth Shemesh, putting SEVENTY of them to death, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD.” These versions completely omit the number 50,000.

The NIV, RSV, ESV just made this number up! The ESV footnote tells us the Hebrew reads "of the people seventy men, fifty thousand men."

But wait. It gets better. Now the new Holman Christian Standard of 2003 has come out and it reads differently than any other version out there. It says: "He struck down 70 men OUT OF 50,000 men."

This time the Syriac reads: "The Lord smote 5,070 men", while the LXX has the correct number of 50,070.

You have to admit, there is a slight difference between 50,070 men slain, or 70 men, or 5,070 men, or "70 men out of 50,000". So, which one is right?

For a more detailed study of this passage see my article at

http://www.geocities.com/gotcha104/50070.html

Will Kinney

[THE BIBLE is in Hebrew and Greek, and I speak and read in English. The KJV is nothing more than just a good translation.]

Hello Sammi,

After over 50 years of using the KJV, I recently changed to another translation for the very reasons you note.  I have no desire to be associated with something as destructive as this is, and I'm quite happy with my new translation. Besides, THE BIBLE is in Hebrew and Greek, and I speak and read in English. The KJV is nothing more than just a good translation.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Tom, it is obvious that you do not believe any Bible or any text is now the inerrant words of God.  This has been my point all along.  When you tell us: "THE BIBLE is in Hebrew and Greek, and I speak and read in English" - you are in effect telling us that you do not have an inerrant Bible.  

There is no "The Hebrew and The Greek", but rather several variations of Hebrew texts and literally thousands of texual variations in "THE Greek".  In essence, you have identified NOTHING as being "The Bible".

Even if we accept the Hebrew readings (and I certainly do), then why do such versions as the NASB, NIV, RSV, ESV and Holman Standard all frequently reject the Hebrew readings?

Apparently you are now going with the ASV.  Do you think the ASV IS the inerrant words of God?  Of course not.  

Again, like Sammi, you are free to do whatever you want to with the Bible version issue.  Truth always divides.  As the church slips more and more into shallowness and apostasy, and most pastors no longer believe any Bible is now the inerrant words of God, for my part, by the grace of God, I will continue to stand for the truth that God has kept His promises and has preserved His words in a Book here on this earth.  It is the Authorized King James Holy Bible, and none other.

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."

Will K

Thank you, but I will stick to my NIV. Despite what KJV only people suggest, I am not a Satan worshipper. My Bible is not taking away the Deity of Jesus, He is God in my Bible and says so over and over. If a person chooses to read the KJV, so be it, but don't try to tell me that I worship Satan by reading my translation. I do no such thing. That is a really great way to discourage potential believers or new believers, and I think it is very wrong. There are such things as fanatics and I have seen them first-hand, it's not pretty.  :-\  

Hi Sammi, no one here who is a KJB onlyist is saying you are worshipping Satan.  I never said this nor even implied it.  However I do believe Satan's fingerprints can be seen in the NIV, but this does not mean that you are worshipping Satan at all.  You are perhaps being deceived by the devil in that you no longer believe any Bible on earth is now the inerrant words of God, but you are not worshipping him.

I have never denied that a person can get saved and be a true Christian even is he or she uses an inferiour bible version.  The gospel of salvation through Christ is still in even the worst of bible versions out there.

As for the deity of Christ in the NIV, I believe it is greatly weakened in many verses.  1 John 5:7 "The Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one" is missing from the NIV.

Likewise that "GOD was manifest in the flesh" has been seriously changed in the NIV of 1 Timothy 3:16.

And perhaps more seriously, the NIV tells us that the Son of God had "origins..from ancient times" in Micah 5:2 and in Acts 13:33 the NIV teaches there was a day when God was not the Father of the Son of God.

The NIV frequently rejects all Hebrew readings in the Old Testament, and omits literally thousands upon thousands of Hebrew and Greek words - about 64,000 of them.  But you are free to read anything you want to.  No one is forcing you to use the true Holy Bible.  

May I point out to you that it is the modern versionists who are the ones who are openly telling other Christians that "No Bible is inerrant"; "All versions have errors", and it is the modern versionists who are claiming that there is no inspired and inerrant Bible on this planet.


God said He would send a famine of hearing the words of God.  See Amos 8:11-12.  If you chose to feed on a very unhealthy diet of watered down and inferiour bible versions, go right ahead.  But do not falsely accuse the Bible believer of saying that you are worshipping Satan.  We never said this.

Will K

[the Word is so simple a baby must understand it]

I, for one, grow weary of this kind of statment.

OK - I, for one, grow weary of this kind of statment.  ;D

I must interject (again) in a debate that, due to egos and individual understanding, seems to never go away.
I generally stay out of translation discussions.  In my opinion the Word is so simple a baby must understand it – if not the Word is wasted.  That’s what I’ve been taught.  If any version of the Word reaches ears willing to hear – as long as that translation teaches that Jesus is God our Savior the Holy Spirit and through faith in Him we are saved - it is a valid translation.  
*AV and AV* - it seems to me you are turning the Holy Trinity into the wholly quadriplegic.  (Forgive the pun.)   ;D
The translated written Word, while holy, is no more holy than the ground Moses took his sandals off to walk on during a visit to Mt. Sinai.  If all is based on the written Word rather than the Trinity, then the Trinity is crippled.  
The Word is more than translated documents comprised of letters and prophecies.  The Word is the Word.  The Word is the God inspired oral testimony you heard in church last Sunday.  The Word is a Christian witnessing to a fellow commuter on a NY City bus.  The Word is on a message board in front of a community Church that makes a passerby visit and become saved.  The Word is what Jesus writes in our hearts every time we pray.  To limit the Word to a single written translation of letters is ludicrous to me.  
And in defense of Reba (though she can defend herself quite well, thank you):  When we attend a revival and the Spirit is renewed in our hearts and we jump for joy – the Word is certainly a tool God uses, but, again, it is the Word of testimony, the Word of history and the Word of wisdom that sends the Spirit into our hearts – not the Word from a single Bible translation.  
We are all born with particular gifts from God.  For some it is the gift of testimony, for some the gift of giving, for others the gift of teaching, or others the gift of helping.  It appears to me, *AV and AV*, that your gift may be one of studying and translating the written Word.  All I would ask is; please make sure that while you are exercising the gift God gave you that it doesn’t blind you to the Simple, Saving Word – the Word that a baby can understand.  
God Bless!!!!!!
Jim

Amen to that. I am kind of disheartened by this topic. I left a Church body that was preaching from the pulpit that anything other than the KJV was devil worship, and that we will be reading the KJV when we get to Heaven. They also did a whole lot of other things that are not Biblical, but I won't go that far into it. Oh, and they were Fundamental Baptist if that makes a difference. I found a Bible teaching Body instead of a Bible bashing Body. ;D

Hi saints, just a comment or two here.  It is not the King James Bible only people who are "bashing the Bible".  The King James Bible believers are the only ones who firmly declare and confess that God has in fact given us an inerrant Book.

All the polls clearly show that belief in an inerrant Bible is rapidly declining here in America.  This is a no brainer.  It is all the modern version promoters who, when cornered about what they really believe, are the ones who are denying that The Bible (any Bible) IS NOW the inerrant words of God.

All modern bible version contain proveable lies and false doctrines. All of them.  Christians today are the most Biblically ignorant generation of believers this country has ever seen.  The "cream of the crop" that go to Bible colleges and seminaries are woefully ignorant of the Bible basics, and most Christians today read or study the Bible very little.

The church is shifing to a New Age mysticism and the idea that "What may be true for me is not necessarily truth for you."

The Book tells us very clearly that there will be a falling away from the faith in the last days before the return of the Lord Jesus Christ, and it is happening now and no one is going to stop it.

All those who do not believe the King James Bible is the inerrant words of God, thinks that no bible and no text is the inspired, complete and inerrant words of God.  Once you begin to hold this view (that there is no inspired and inerrant Bible on this earth), there remains only the slippery slope into full blown apostasy.

Will K

The direction of the modern versions are leading the church to believe lies and hold certain false doctrines.

The NIV,NASB,NKJV,ESV,et.al are all in the same boat.
They use corrupted manuscripts.
The result?
They become corrupted translations.
They are going in the wrong direction.

There must be the Standard.
There is!
The Holy Bible;known as the AV 1611.KJV

Relentless for him,
PeterAV
John17:17

Hi Peter, thanks for your comments and your interest in this vital topic.  None of modern version proponents believe The Bible IS the inerrant words of God.  This is obvious.  It is somewhat amazing to me that more Christians don't see what is happening in the church - the falling away from the faith.

In and by His grace alone,

Will Kinney

Hi Kevin, First of all, what the KJB and several other translations say about "God is no respector or persons" is NOT A LIE.  The LIE is found in such versions as the NIV, NKJV, NASB where they say "God does not take away life" - THAT is the lie.  It is your bogus bibles that have the lie, not the KJB.

Kevin says:
''Exactly Brother!  A lie generated by Joab...not the NIV/ESV/whateverelseV translators.  The reading is consistent.  The content is accurately translated.  The lie was put there by Joab to deceive David, not the readers of the text.  The readers are expected to deferentiate between the two."


Kevin, the two different readings "neither doth God respect any person" (KJB and many others) versus the NKJV, NIV, NASB reading of "neither does God take away life" are completely contradictory in meaning.  The NKJV, NIV, NASB reading is a lie, but you say it was a lie put in the mouth of the woman by Joab.  However, David saw the message of the woman as being good advice on how he should behave toward his son.

The KJB reading is the truth.  If we accept your view that the NKJV, NIV, NASB reading is the correct one, then we have a problem.  David is then believing an out and out lie which is against all Scripture.  God does take away life.  You position would have David following the advice of a woman who is telling a huge whopper of a lie and David couldn't tell the difference between the lie and the truth.


Quote:
So, which reading is correct?  Both cannot equally be the inspired word of God at the same time.


Kevin:  Why not?

Simply because they cannot both be the inspired words of God at the same time, because they are totally opposite in the meaning of what she said.

Here it is in more detail.

2 Samuel 14:14 - Does God take away life or not? A Theological error in the NKJV, NIV, NASB, Holman Standard versions.

Proverbs 14:5 tells us: "A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies."

There are many lies found in the new bible versions and it is the accumulation of such lies that reveal them to be false witnesses to the whole truth of God. One such lie is found in 2 Samuel 14:14.

The context is when Absalom had slain Amnon because he raped his sister Tamar. Absalom fled to Geshur and was there for three years, yet the soul of king David longed for his son Absalom. Joab decides to put words in the mouth of a wise woman from Tekoah and he sends her to speak to the king.

In the course of their conversation the woman finally tells king David in 2 Samuel 14: 13 -14: "the king doth speak this thing as one which is faulty, in that the king doth not fetch home again his banished. For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; NEITHER DOTH GOD RESPECT ANY PERSON: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him."

The meaning is pretty straightforward. We all must die and God does not respect any person or show partiality to one more than another in this regard. John Wesley briefly comments: "Respect - So far as to exempt him from this common law of dying."

Other Bible versions that read as the King James Bible are the Geneva Bible of 1599, the Jewish Publication Society of America's 1917 translation, Young's "literal" translation, Daniel Webster's 1833 translation, the Spanish Sagradas Escrituras, the KJV 21st Century version and the Third Millenium Bible.

The Bishops' Bible of 1568, and the Geneva Bible of 1599 say: "For we must needes dye, and we are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered vp againe: NEITHER DOTH GOD SPARE ANY PERSON, yet doeth he appoynt meanes, not to cast out from him, him that is expelled."

However when we get to the New KJV, RSV, ESV, Holman Standard, NIV, The Message, Green's MKJV, and the NASB instead of "neither doth God respect any person" they read "YET GOD DOES NOT TAKE AWAY LIFE". This is a lie and a contradiction.

Just two chapters before this event we read of the child born to David, in his adulterous affair with Bathseba, that "the LORD struck the child, and it was very sick" and on the seventh day it died. 2 Samuel 12:15. In Deuteronomy 32:39 God Himself says: "I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand." In Genesis 38:7 and 10 we read of two wicked sons of Judah, Er and Onan "and the LORD SLEW him", and "wherefore he slew him also." 1 Samuel 2:6 tells us: "The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up." And 2 Samuel 6:7 says: "And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah. and God smote him there for his error: and there he died by the ark of God."

In the New Testament the Lord Jesus Christ says in Luke 12:5 "But I will forwarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."

God obviously does take away life, and the NKJV, NIV and NASB are all in error here in 2 Samuel 14:14 where they say that He doesn't take away life.

The same Hebrew words used in 2 Samuel 14: 14 are also translated as "not RESPECT PERSONS" in other places in the NKJV, NIV and NASB. The word RESPECT is # 5375 nah-sah, and has many meanings such as "to accept, to respect, to regard, to take up, take, lift up, carry away, to pardon, to set up and to bear."

PERSONS is # 5315 nephesh and the NASB itself has translated this word as "persons" some 90 times. It also can mean spirit, soul, life, ghost, heart, breath, and himself or herself. Both words have multiple meanings and the context and sound theology must determine how they are to be translated correctly.

The NKJV has translated this same verb as "to respect" in Lamentations 4:16 "they do not respect the priests" and as "you shall not be partial to the poor" in Leviticus 19:15.

Likewise the NASB and NIV have translated the verb as "respect, accept and show partiality" many times. The NASB has "the LORD accepted Job" in Job 42:8, and in 2 Kings 5:1 says that "Naaman was a great man with his master and highly RESPECTED." The NIV has "without RESPECT for the old" Deut. 28:50 and in 2 Kings 3:14 "If I did not HAVE RESPECT for the presence of Jehoshaphat I would not look at you."

At least eight times the NIV, NKJV and NASB translate this verb as "to show partiality". For example, in Deuteronomy 10:17 the KJB, the ASV, Young's, Darby and the Jewish translations say: "For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty and a terrible, WHICH REGARDETH NOT PERSONS, nor taketh reward." Here the NIV, NKJV and NASB say: "God..who SHOWS NO PARTIALITY."

So it is not a case of the Hebrew not being able to carry the meaning as found in the King James Bible and all the others, but the modern bible translators were blinded to an obvious truth of Scripture - "Neither doth God respect any person". God does indeed take away life.

Commentators are not inspired. Lexicons are not inspired. And any bible version that contains a falshood is not inspired. Only the true Holy Bible providentially given to us by God Almighty is the inspired, inerrant word of God. I firmly believe all the true words of God are found in the King James Bible, and not the others.

I thought it would be instructive to show just how the Bible Babel is going in regards to other translations of this phrase "neither doth God respect persons".

The New English Bible: "God WILL SPARE THE MAN WHO DOES NOT SET HIMSELF TO KEEP THE LAWLESS in banishment."

Today's English Version, and the Good News Translation 1992: "We will all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which can't be gathered again. Even God DOES NOT BRING THE DEAD BACK TO LIFE". (He doesn't?)

The Greek Septuagint is little help here to the modern versionists. It says: kai leepsetai ho theos psuxen - "God receives a soul"

The New Jerusalem bible: "NOR DOES GOD RAISE UP A CORPSE".

New Living Bible: "that is why God TRIES TO BRING US BACK when we have been separated from him."

God's Word translation: "But DOESN'T GOD FORGIVE A PERSON?"

Bible in Basic English: "God WILL NOT TAKE AWAY THE LIFE OF THE MAN WHOSE PURPOSE IS THAT THAT HE WHO HAS BEEN SENT AWAY MAY NOT BE COMPLETELY CUT OFF FROM HIM." - say what?

Easy To Read Version 2001 - " No person can gather this water back from the ground. YOU KNOW GOD FORGIVES PEOPLE. God made plans for people who are forced to run away for safety--God doesn't force them to run away from him!"

  There you have it. All of these are modern "bibles" written by scholarly men who have gone to seminary and have given us the various fruits of their labours.

I hope this clears up everything for you. Remember the famous words of James White "It is good to have a variety of translations so you can get a better understanding of what it says."

Will Kinney

Kevin, by your own admission the world is under God's control, not Satan's.  Yet the NIV teaches the whole world is under the control of the Evil One.  This is a false doctrine.

You lack greatly in your escatalogical understanding.  Read up on Revelations.  Satan rules this world because God allows him too, and yet, still calls him in to give an account of his activities (ref. Job).

Sure, Satan is called "the god of this world", but that does not mean he is in control of it.  It means that the spiritual power behind all world religions other than the O.T. and N.T. revelation is Satan.  See 1 Cor. 10:20 "the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God".

Devil made me do it theology?

By your own admission the NIV is theologically wrong, and it is.  Just one lie makes a witness a false witness.  Face the facts.

Hi Kevin, your example of Job does NOT teach that Satan is the ruler of this world, or in control.  It teaches the opposite. God is the controlling Ruler, and Satan can only do what God allows him to do.

God or Satan?

Who is in control of the world? Is it God or Satan? Jesus Christ said: "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." Mattthew 28:18. The Lord's prayer in Matthew 6:13 ends with :"For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory for ever, Amen." This phrase is in brackets in the NASB and removed in the NIV, RSV and ESV. Jesus either said it or he didn't; they can't all be right.

In Ephesians 1:20-22 it is said of Christ that God "raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come; and hath put all things under his feet."

Daniel 4:17,25,26 tell us three times that "the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will." 2 Chronicles 20:6 affirms: "O LORD God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?"

God is the sovereign ruler and controller of this world, as well as the entire universe. There is only one King, and Satan is not the king, the controller, or the ruler of this world - at least according to the true Holy Bible - the King James Bible of 1611 - which is pure in all its precepts and true in all its doctrines. However such is not the case with a multitude of inferior bible versions on the market today.

Satan is a liar from the beginning. In Luke 4:6, when the devil tempted the Lord Jesus Christ in the wilderness, Satan told Jesus that all the kingdoms of the world were his and that he gave them to whomsoever he would. He lied. He is a liar and the father of it - John 8:44. Satan's statement directly contradicts Daniel 4:17 which says "the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever He will." But the NIV, NAS, ESV and NKJV have bought Satan's lie and are passing it off onto God's children.

All Greek texts read the same in 1 John 5:19, so it is not a textual variation, but a simple matter of sound and consistent doctrine as opposed to a lie. The Greek texts read: "oidamen oti ek tou qeou esmen kai o kosmoV oloV en tw ponhrw keitai".

In I John 5:19 the King James Bible along with the Tyndale 1525, Bishop's Bible 1568, the Geneva Bible 1599, Young's, the Spanish Reina Valera of 1602, and 1909 (y todo el mundo está puesto en maldad), Lamsa's translation of the Pegotcha2ta, Webster's 1833 translation, the Douay-Rheims 1950, the KJV 21st Century version, Green's literal translation and Green's Modern KJV, and the Third Millenium Bible all say: "And we know that we are of God, and THE WHOLE WORLD LIETH IN WICKEDNESS."

Wycliffe's Bible says: " We witen, that we ben of God, and al the world is set in yuel." Or the modernized version would be: "We know that we be of God and all the world is set in evil."

Miles Coverdale's 1535 translation says: "We know that we are of God, and the whole world is set altogether in wickedness."

Many commentators who are usually sound in their doctrine become very confused in their thinking when they try to explain this passage, yet the meaning as it stands in the true Holy Bible is quite clear. We live in a fallen world; it lies in sin and wickedness, just as the text says. But God is still in control and ruling over all His creation. "He worketh all things after the counsel of his own will" Ephesians 1:11. Even though it may appear that wickedness is winning, the eye of faith sees his sovereignty and rejoices in this confidence.

However, believe it or not, many new versions pervert the truth of God's sovereign rule and would have us believe that Satan is the ruler of this world and is in control. In fact, they come right out and say it in these exact words.

The NIV says: "The whole world is UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE EVIL ONE."

Before you rush to your school boy Greek to defend this obvious lie, check out any of your own preferred bible versions and notice how they frequently translate nouns that have the definite article. See for instance Romans 12:9 in the NIV, NKJV, NASB, or the NASB in Matthew 5:37 and 6:13.

NASB " the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."

Today's English Version "the whole world is under the rule of the Evil One."

ESV (English Standard Version) "the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."

Living Bible 1981 "the world around us is under Satan's power and control."

ISV (International Standard Version) "the whole world lies under the control of the evil one."

The NKJV, and the Holman Christian Standard Bible try to strike a medium with : " the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one" but the NKJV as well as the NASB are also wrong when three times they refer to Satan as the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31; 14:30, and 16:11. Satan is NOT the ruler of this world. He is the spiritual "prince of this world", as the KJB, RV, ASV, Tyndale, Geneva, and even the NIV correctly say, but there are also other spiritual "princes" or beings working among the nations, and all of them are under the control of God and not Satan.

Daniel chapter 10 reveals that there are spiritual "princes" of Persia and of Grecia, and the angel Michael is one of the chief princes of the nation of Israel. These are members of the spiritual principalities and powers in the heavenly places, Satan being the "prince of the power of the air" Ehpesians 2:2, but he is not, as the NKJV and the NASB teach, the RULER of this world.

I have asked people who use the NIV or any of these modern versions a simple question. Who is in control of this world, God or Satan? I usually get the response that God is in control of this world. Then I show them what the NIV, NASB, and NKJV say in 1 John 5:19, or in John 12:31; 14:30 and 16:11. Usually they are a bit shocked and begin to doubt the reliability of these versions (as well they should). But unfortunately what I have most often found to be the case is that after a short while they then try to defend this obvious error by a series of silly explanations.

It is a very simple question. Does the King James Bible teach that Satan is the ruler of this world, and that the whole world is under the control of the Evil One? Answer: NO

Do the NKJV, NASB, NIV, ESV teach that Satan is the ruler of this world and that the whole world is under his control? Answer: YES.


Will Kinney

I and thousands of other Christians believe God has kept His promises to preserve His words and He has done so in the King James Holy Bible. In general terms the overall state of textual evidence and ancient versions is overwhelmingly on the side of the King James Bible readings as opposed to such versions as the NASB, NIV, RSV, ESV, and ISV.

What promise?  Please, elaborate and exposite greatly on your proof text.

Hi Kevin, do you believe God promised to preserve His wordS here on this earth or not?  If so, which verses do you use to back this up?  If not, then just tell us so.  Thanks.

Here are the Scriptures I use.

Here are some facts taken directly from the Holy Bible. You do not need to be a scholar or seminary student to get a grasp of what the Bible says about itself. You either believe God or you don't.

The Bible believer first looks to God and His word to determine what the Book says about itself. The Bible cannot be clearer concerning it's preservation:

Isaiah 40:8: "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."

Psalm 12:6-7: "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

Psalm 138:2: "I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name."

Psalm 100:5: "For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations."

Psalm 33:11: "The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations."

Psalm 119:152, 160: "Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that Thou hast founded them for ever. ... thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."

Isaiah 59:21: "... My Spirit that is upon thee [Isaiah], and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever."

Matthew 5:17-18: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Matthew 24:35: "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

John 10:35: "... the Scripture cannot be broken."

God has promised to preserve His wordS IN A BOOK here on this earth till heaven and earth pass away. He either did this and we can know where they are found today, or He lied and He lost some of them, and we can never be sure if what we are reading are the true words of God or not.

God's words are in a BOOK. Consider the following verses: "Now go, write it before them in a table, and NOTE IT IN A BOOK, that it may be for the time to come FOR EVER AND EVER." Isaiah 30:8

"Seek ye out of THE BOOK of the LORD, and READ: no one of these shall fail...for my mouth it hath commanded..." Isaiah 34:16

"Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of THE BOOK it is written of me, I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart." Psalm 40:7-8

"And if any man shall take away from THE WORDS OF THE BOOK of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK." Revelation 22:19


Will Kinney

Well,  I'm a late comer to this debate, and have been rather untimely in my participation for quite sometime!  But I do see some things here that must be addressed:

Another doctrinal error is found in the NKJV, NIV, NASB, ESV, Holman and others in 2 Samuel 14:14.

The context is Absalom had slain Amnon because he raped his sister Tamar. Absalom fled to Geshur and was there for three years, yet the soul of king David longed for his son Absalom. Joab decides to put words in the mouth of a wise woman from Tekoah and he sends her to speak to the king.

In the course of their conversation the woman tells king David: "the king doth speak this thing as one which is faulty, in that the king doth not fetch home again his banished. For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; NEITHER DOTH GOD RESPECT ANY PERSON: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him."

The meaning is pretty straightforward. We all must die and God does not respect any person or show partiality to one more than another in this regard.

Other Bible versions that read as the King James Bible are the Geneva Bible of 1599, the Jewish Publication Society of America's 1917 translation, Young's "literal" translation, Daniel Webster's 1833 translation, the Spanish Sagradas Escrituras, the KJV 21st Century version and the Third Millenium Bible.

However when we get to the New KJV, ESV, the NIV, Holman, and the NASB instead of "neither doth God respect any person" they read "YET GOD DOES NOT TAKE AWAY LIFE". This is untrue and a contradiction.

This is why a contextual approach to scriptural interp is a must.  gotcha104, you yourself had just said:

Joab decides to put words in the mouth of a wise woman...

And now you're trying to take a lie Joab put in the woman's mouth and make a biblical, doctrinal truth from it.  God does take lives!  Imagine that.  A lie that doesn't agree with scripture...you need better argumentation my friend.   :)

Hi Kevin, First of all, what the KJB and several other translations say about "God is no respector or persons" is NOT A LIE.  The LIE is found in such versions as the NIV, NKJV, NASB where they say "God does not take away life" - THAT is the lie.  It is your bogus bibles that have the lie, not the KJB.

So, which reading is correct?  Both cannot equally be the inspired word of God at the same time.

Who rules or is in control of this world, God or Satan?

In I John 5:19 the King James Bible along with the Tyndale 1525, Bishop's Bible 1568, the Geneva Bible 1599, Young's, the Spanish Reina Valera of 1602, and 1909 (y todo el mundo está puesto en maldad), Lamsa's translation of the Pe****ta, Webster's 1833 translation, the Douay-Rheims 1950, the KJV 21st Century version, Green's literal translation and Green's Modern KJV, and the Third Millenium Bible all say: "And we know that we are of God, and THE WHOLE WORLD LIETH IN WICKEDNESS."

Miles Coverdale's 1535 translation says: "We know that we are of God, and the whole world is set altogether in wickedness."

We live in a fallen world; it lies in sin and wickedness, just as the text says. But God is still in control and ruling over all His creation. "He worketh all things after the counsel of his own will" Ephesians 1:11. Daniel 4:17,25,26 tell us three times that "the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will." Even though it may appear that wickedness is winning, the eye of faith sees His sovereignty and rejoices in this confidence.

However, believe it or not, many new versions change the truth of God's sovereign rule and would have us believe that Satan is the ruler of this world and is in control. In fact, they come right out and say it in these exact words.

The NIV says: "The whole world is UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE EVIL ONE."

NASB " the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."

Today's English Version "the whole world is under the rule of the Evil One."

ESV (English Standard Version) "the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."

Living Bible 1981 "the world around us is under Satan's power and control."

ISV (International Standard Version) "the whole world lies under the control of the evil one."

The NKJV, and the Holman Christian Standard Bible try to strike a medium with : " the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one" but the NKJV as well as the NASB are also wrong when three times they refer to Satan as the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31; 14:30, and 16:11. Satan is NOT the ruler of this world. He is the spiritual "prince of this world", as the KJB, RV, ASV, Tyndale, Geneva, and even the NIV correctly say, but there are also other spiritual "princes" or beings working among the nations, and all of them are under the control of God and not Satan.

For a more detailed study of who rules the world see:

http://www.geocities.com/gotcha104/controlworld.html

 

Kevin says:   And again, God has said that He is in control of creation, ultimately, this world.  And yet, the same God, in the KJV, has said that Satan is the "god of this world."  The accurate translation is found in each translation.

The need here is for a much deeper study.  Holding a KJV only conviction is fine.  Holding a KJV ONLY doctrine, is fallible at best.

His,

Kevin

Kevin, by your own admission the world is under God's control, not Satan's.  Yet the NIV teaches the whole world is under the control of the Evil One.  This is a false doctrine.

Sure, Satan is called "the god of this world", but that does not mean he is in control of it.  It means that the spiritual power behind all world religions other than the O.T. and N.T. revelation is Satan.  See 1 Cor. 10:20 "the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God".

By your own admission the NIV is theologically wrong, and it is.  Just one lie makes a witness a false witness.  Face the facts.

Will K

1. Provide evidence that a translation other than the KJV has caused uncertainty, doubt and unbelief due to translated error.

Tim, didn't you look at the examples I gave?  There are several false doctrines taught in the modern versions.

I was not asking for taught false doctrines, I was asking for evidence that said claims were in fact altering peoples beliefs.    I realize this may not be verifiable, but the onus is on KJVO.

2.  Give me one doctrine from your translation of choice that is based on only one verse.  (You keep sighting particular verses that are in error doctrinally, but you forget that scripture always interprits itself elsewhere which makes it virtually impossible for #1 to be proven )

2Tim, The true Bible (The King James Bible) always tells the truth.  It is Satan and false witnesses who mix in the lies among the truth.  The JW version teaches that Jesus is God too, but because of Micah 5:2 and Acts 13:33 where the JW version as well as the NIV both teach that Christ has an ORIGIN and that there was a certain DAY when God BECAME HIS FATHER, then all the verses that point to Jesus being God are necessarily combined to say that Jesus is a "God" who was created - not that He is eternal and everlasting God equal to the Father.

This is stretching it quite a bit, and falls more on the interpriter rather than allowing the whole word to interprit itself.   John 1:1 NIV should make things clear if if the reader is allowing the word to interprit itself, not the other way around.

Hi 2 Tim, God's true words, the King James Bible, ALWAYS tells the truth.  This was the test of a true prophet.  One lie mixed in with the truth disqualified him as being a true prophet of God.

The NIV clearly says in Micah 5:2 that Christ has "origins" (just like the Jehovah witness version) and the NIV teaches that there was a day when God became the Father of Jesus. (just like the Jehovah witness version). Tell me, 2 Tim, when was this "day" the NIV refers to?  At what time or when did God become the Father of the eternal Son of God?  On what "day" did this happen?

You are hardening your heart and stiffening your neck by refusing to admit the NIV is perverted.

If you take all the verses in the NIV and put them together regarding the Son of God, we would have to conclude that the Son of God has both origins and there was a time when God was not his Father.  Face the facts and quit trying to avoid them or justify error.

Will K

THE CONDITION OF EVANGELICALISM TODAY

The following testimonies about the character of Evangelicalism today were not made by Fundamentalists; they were made by key Evangelical leaders.


"A GROWING VANGUARD OF YOUNG GRADUATES OF EVANGELICAL COLLEGES WHO HOLD DOCTORATES FROM NON-EVANGELICAL DIVINITY CENTERS NOW QUESTION OR DISOWN INERRANCY and the doctrine is held less consistently by evangelical faculties. ... Some retain the term and reassure supportive constituencies but nonetheless stretch the term's meaning" (Carl F.H. Henry, first editor of Christianity Today, chairman for the 1966 World Congress on Evangelism, "Conflict Over Biblical Inerrancy," Christianity Today, May 7, 1976)



"MORE AND MORE ORGANIZATIONS AND INDIVIDUALS HISTORICALLY COMMITTED TO AN INFALLIBLE SCRIPTURE HAVE BEEN EMBRACING AND PROPAGATING THE VIEW THAT THE BIBLE HAS ERRORS IN IT. This movement away from the historic standpoint has been most noticeable among those often labeled neo-evangelicals. This change of position with respect to the infallibility of the Bible is widespread and has occurred in evangelical denominations, Christian colleges, theological seminaries, publishing houses, and learned societies" (Harold Lindsell, former vice-president and professor Fuller Theological Seminary and Editor Emeritus of Christianity Today, The Battle for the Bible, 1976, p. 20).



"Most people outside the evangelical community itself are totally unaware of the profound changes that have occurred within evangelicalism during the last several years--in the movement's understanding of the inspiration and authority of Scripture, in its social concerns, cultural attitudes and ecumenical posture, and in the nature of its emerging leadership. ... evangelical theologians have begun looking at the Bible with a scrutiny reflecting THEIR WIDESPREAD ACCEPTANCE OF THE PRINCIPLES OF HISTORICAL AND LITERARY CRITICISM ... The position--affirming that Scripture is inerrant or infallible in its teaching on matters of faith and conduct but not necessarily in all its assertions concerning history and the cosmos--IS GRADUALLY BECOMING ASCENDANT AMONG THE MOST HIGHLY RESPECTED EVANGELICAL THEOLOGIANS. ... these new trends ... indicate that evangelical theology is becoming more centrist, more open to biblical criticism and more accepting of science and broad cultural analysis. ONE MIGHT EVEN SUGGEST THAT THE NEW GENERATION OF EVANGELICALS IS CLOSER TO BONHOEFFER, BARTH AND BRUNNER THAN TO HODGE AND WARFIELD ON THE INSPIRATION AND AUTHORITY OF SCRIPTURE" (Richard Quebedeaux, author of The Young Evangelicals and The Worldly Evangelicals, "The Evangelicals: New Trends and Tensions," Christianity and Crisis, Sept. 20, 1976, pp. 197-202).



"A SURPRISING ARRAY OF EQUALLY DEDICATED EVANGELICALS IS FORMING TO INSIST THAT ACCEPTANCE OF HISTORIC CHRISTIAN DOCTRINES DOES NOT REQUIRE BELIEF IN AN INERRANT BOOK. ... What has made it a new ball game today is the emergence of a new type of evangelical. These persons accept the cardinal doctrines of Christianity in their full and literal meaning but agree that the higher critics have a point: there are errors in Scripture, and some of its precepts must be recognized as being culturally and historically conditioned" (G. Aiken Taylor, "Is God as Good as His Word?" Christianity Today, Feb. 4, 1977).

"I must regretfully conclude that the term evangelical has been so debased that it has lost its usefulness. ... Forty years ago the term evangelical represented those who were theologically orthodox and who held to biblical inerrancy as one of the distinctives. ... WITHIN A DECADE OR SO NEOEVANGELICALISM, THAT STARTED SO WELL AND PROMISED SO MUCH, WAS BEING ASSAULTED FROM WITHIN BY INCREASING SKEPTICISM WITH REGARD TO BIBLICAL INFALLIBILITY OR INERRANCY" (Harold Lindsell, The Bible in the Balance, 1979, p. 319)

"WITHIN EVANGELICALISM THERE ARE A GROWING NUMBER WHO ARE MODIFYING THEIR VIEWS ON THE INERRANCY OF THE BIBLE SO THAT THE FULL AUTHORITY OF SCRIPTURE IS COMPLETELY UNDERCUT. But is happening in very subtle ways. Like the snow lying side-by-side on the ridge, the new views on biblical authority often seem at first glance not to be very far from what evangelicals, until just recently, have always believed. But also, like the snow lying side-by-side on the ridge, the new views when followed consistently end up a thousand miles apart. What may seem like a minor difference at first, in the end makes all the difference in the world ... compromising the full authority of Scripture eventually affects what it means to be a Christian theologically and how we live in the full spectrum of human life" (Francis Schaeffer, The Great Evangelical Disaster, 1983, p. 44).



"My main concern is with those who profess to believe that the Bible is the Word of God and yet by, what I can only call, surreptitious and devious means, deny it. This is, surprisingly enough, a position that is taken widely in the evangelical world. ALMOST ALL OF THE LITERATURE WHICH IS PRODUCED IN THE EVANGELICAL WORLD TODAY FALLS INTO THIS CATEGORY. In the October 1985 issue of Christianity Today, a symposium on Bible criticism was featured. The articles were written by scholars from several evangelical seminaries. NOT ONE OF THE PARTICIPANTS IN THAT SYMPOSIUM IN CHRISTIANITY TODAY WAS PREPARED TO REJECT HIGHER CRITICISM. All came to its defense. It became evident that all the scholars from the leading seminaries in this country held to a form of higher criticism. These men claim to believe that the Bible is the Word of God. At the same time they adopt higher critical methods in the explanation of the Scriptures. This has become so common in evangelical circles that it is almost impossible to find an evangelical professor in the theological schools of our land and abroad who still holds uncompromisingly to the doctrine of the infallible inspiration of the Scriptures. The insidious danger is that higher criticism is promoted by those who claim to believe in infallible inspiration" (Herman Hanko, Professor of Church History and New Testament, Protestant Reformed Seminary, The Battle for the Bible, 1993, pp. 2,3).

Amazing Statistics - This was posted at Study Light Forum where I have been discussing the Bible Version issue.  I didn't post this.  It was from another brother there who has been following the discussion.

It may be latter than we think.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was listening to my radio today, and happened to catch Pastor Michael Youseff's Message on His "Leading The Way" program. The title of todays message was "The Bible, The World's Most Relevant Book - Part 2

In his message he gave statistics of a poll that was conducted.

Here is what the poll revealed:

85% of students at America's largest Evangelical Seminary don't believe in the inerrancy of Scripture
74% of the Clergy in America no longer believe in the inerrancy of Scripture
95% of the Episcopalian Clergy no longer believe in the inerrancy of Scripture
82% of the Presbyterian Clergy no longer believe in the inerrancy of Scripture
77% of American Lutheran Clergy no longer believe in the inerrancy of Scripture
67% of American Baptist Clergy no longer believe in the inerrancy of Scripture

If the above stats are even close to being accurate, then the church of America is in sad shape today.


The Apostasy, or the falling away from the faith, predicted in the Bible, is here and no one is going to stop it.

Get yourself a copy of the true words of God as found in the King James Bible.  Read it, believe it, and don't try to "correct" it.  There really is an inspired and inerrant Bible on this earth and it is called the King James Holy Bible - accept no inferiour substitutes.

Will Kinney

gotcha104,

A few more points for you.

For every post that you provide here in support of the KJV, I can provide you with a cut and paste post that proves the errors in the KJV. Following are just a couple.

http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/kjverror.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion.html



Now I ask you, what has all this accomplished for our self edification and for the edification of the lost? Nothing at all. It has generated confusion, doubt in and of Jesus Christ. It has brought none to Him and in fact it more than likely has turned many away from God. For many will now think that there are no valid Bibles.

Hi P, as for those links supposedly showing errors in the King James Bible, they are really pathetic.  Have you bothered to check what those guys are calling errors with all the other translations out there?  They criticize things as errors which several other modern versions translate in exactly the same way as the KJB.  This is what happens when every man does that which is right in his own eyes and he becomes his own Final Authority.  You guys are a hoot.

I read through the posts of Reba, and several others here, all of whom have openly affirmed themselves that "There is no inerrant Bible", "All translations have errors", "No Bible version is inspired", and yet you all accuse me, the only Bible believer of the bunch, of being the one who is sowing doubt as to the inerrancy of the Bible!!!  

"Woe unto those that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness: that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter.  Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight."  Isaiah 5:20-21


Brothers and sisters, I am not the one who is denying that the Bible IS NOW the inerrant words of God and that He has been faithful to preserve His words as He promised.  It is you guys with your "All bibles have errors" - not me.

Here are some facts about what is happening with Christians today.  I did not make up these statistics.

Another article on the apostasy in modern Evangelicalism by David Clould found here:

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fbns/fbns450.html

 With the flood of modern Bible versions it seems there is less and less believed about the pillars of the Christian faith. These versions were translated from different manuscripts than the KING JAMES BIBLE. For their New Testaments their translators used questionable Greek texts from which to translate, two of which were SINAITICUS and VATICANUS.

These same modern Greek texts, often referred to as the Critical Text, are used in most seminaries and Christian institutions of higher learning in courses of higher textual criticism. Whether the text is Nestle's 26th or 27th edition, Nestle-Aland's, or that of the United Bible Societies, this appears true even if the institution is liberal or conservative. Each of these texts relies upon the Westcott-Hort text. Bible textual criticism does not mean the Bible is criticized but that readings from other manuscripts or Greek texts are examined, whether they are credible or not.

It is somewhat like being in a Bible study where someone says my NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION says. . . and someone else remarks but my LIVING BIBLE says this. . .and one ventures that the NEW AMERICAN STANDARD has this reading. . while yet another says the NEW KING JAMES has a slight variation.

The result is, What does the Bible really say? Which one is right? All the readings cannot be correct because that would be inconsistent and if there is one thing God IS NOT - is inconsistent.

This undermines the faith of seminary students and they cannot say with absolute certainty, I hold here in my hands, beyond a shadow of a doubt, God‚s infallible, inerrant Word. The situation may fit with 2 Timothy 3: 7 „Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. This is definitely one of the characteristics of the present day apostasy in which we live.

Is it then a coincidence that at one leading Baptist Theological Seminary in the mid 1970's, a survey presented the following information in a thesis? A group of statements regarding the Christian faith were presented to (1) Diploma, (2) lst year Divinity, (3) Final year Divinity, and (4) Ph.D./Th.D. Students. Findings on the answers to some of the statements given by each group were:

# I know God really exists and I have no doubt about it.
(1) Diploma- 100% Final Year Divinity (2) Ist year Divinity - 74%
(3)  Final Year Divinity - 65% (4) Ph.D./Th.D. - 63%

# Jesus is the Divine Son of God and I have no doubts about it.
(1)  100% (2) 87% (3) 63% (4) 63%

# The Devil actually exists. (1) 96%  (2) 96%  (3) 42%  (4) 37%

#  I believe the miracles happened just as the Bible says they did. (1) 96% (2) 61% (3) 40% (4) 37%

#  There is life beyond death: Completely true.
(1) 100% (2)89% (3) 67% (4) 53%

#  Jesus was born of a Virgin: Completely true.
(1) 96% (2) 66% (3) 33% (4) 32%

#  Jesus walked on water: Completely true.
(1) 96% (2) 59% (3) 44% (4) 22%

#  I definitely believe Jesus will return to the earth some day.
(1) 100% (2) 87% (3) 63% (4} 63%

HOW NECESSARY FOR SALVATION DO YOU BELIEVE THE FOLLOWING TO BE?

#  Belief in Jesus Christ as Saviour: Absolutely necessary.
(1} 100% (2) 85% (3) 60% (4) 59%

#  Loving thy neighbor: Absolutely necessary.
(1) 43% (2) 54% (3) 65% (4) 53%

Is it true that the more and more Bible versions we have, and the more and more Seminary education one receives, the less and less one believes about the Bible?
 

Sad Statistics

A previous issue of Christianity Today published the results of a poll of Protestant clergymen conducted by sociologist Jeffrey Hadden. He contacted 10,000 clergymen of whom 7,441 replied.

They were asked if they accepted Jesus' physical resurrection as a fact.

51% of Methodists said "No"
35% of United Presbyterians said "No"
30% of Episcopalians said "No"
33% of American Baptists said "No"
13% of American Lutherans said "No"
7% of Mo. Synod Lutherans said "No"

They were asked if they believed in the virgin birth of Jesus.

60% of Methodists said "No"
44% of Episcopalians said "No"
49% of Presbyterians said "No"
34% of Baptists said "No"
19% of American Lutherans said "No"
5% of Mo. Synod Lutherans said "No"

They were asked if they believed in evil demon power in the world today.

62% of Methodists said "No''
37% of Episcopalians said "No"
47% of Presbyterians said ''No"
33% of Baptists said "No''
14% of American Lutherans said "No"
9% of Mo. Synod Lutherans said "No"

They were asked if they believed that the Scriptures are the inspired and inerrant Word of God in faith, history, and secular matters.

87% of Methodists said "No"
95% of Episcopalians said "No"
82% of Presbyterians said "No"
67% of American Baptists said "No"
77% of American Lutherans said "No"
24% of Mo. Synod Lutherans said "No"

Each of these questions concern a basic belief in Christianity. These ministers, by their own confession, are denying the faith they proclaim from the pulpit and are using their churches to destroy Christianity; many of them are acting in innocent ignorance because of their denominational teaching, but many are Satan's emissaries being transformed as angels of light (2 Cor. 11:14) and are operating in the pulpit.

--Copied from a tract, as published in FGB  July-August 1979.
~~~~~

You know, I was going to let this drop, I even deleted my previous post, but I guess I'm a glutton for punishment.


blandpluck, Why is it that all of your posts are cut and pasted?   The entire last 3 posts can be found on the web by cutting and pasting parts of it into a search engine on the web.   This certainly explains why you cannot answer questions that have been posed to you.   Unless you have an answer source on the web to cut and paste, you simply don't have an answer it seems.

Answer these in your own words please, otherwise I too have nothing further to add or read on this thread.


Hi 2 Tim, the reason you can find these articles on the web is because I wrote them myself.  They are not copied from anyone else or from another site.  They are my own writings based on my own studies.

1. Provide evidence that a translation other than the KJV has caused uncertainty, doubt and unbelief due to translated error.

2 Tim, didn't you look at the examples I gave?  There are several false doctrines taught in the modern versions.

2.  Give me one doctrine from your translation of choice that is based on only one verse.   (You keep sighting particular verses that are in error doctrinally, but you forget that scripture always interprits itself elsewhere which makes it virtually impossible for #1 to be proven )

2Tim, The true Bible (The King James Bible) always tells the truth.  It is Satan and false witnesses who mix in the lies among the truth.  The JW version teaches that Jesus is God too, but because of Micah 5:2 and Acts 13:33 where the JW version as well as the NIV both teach that Christ has an ORIGIN and that there was a certain DAY when God BECAME HIS FATHER, then all the verses that point to Jesus being God are necessarily combined to say that Jesus is a "God" who was created - not that He is eternal and everlasting God equal to the Father.

If you cannot see this, then you are blind.  

3.  Is it your assertion, that one cannot come to the truth in anything other than the KJV....Yes or No?

2Tim, if you had been reading what I said before, I said that you do not need to be a KJB only to get saved.  But if you use something other than the pure words of God as found only in the KJB, then your faith will necessarily be weakened and you will imbible false doctrines along the way.

This is not to say that all KJB onlies understand all truth.  We all see through a glass darkly, but the KJB alone has pure doctrine in every passage, whereas the modern versions have all perverted sound doctrine in several places.

4.  Does the infallible word of God only exist on text?

Yes, be it a text here on earth or in heaven.  Aside from the WRITTEN WORD there is no infallible word of God.  

5.  Do you believe that the word of God is infallible?

Absolutely.

6.  Do you believe there are no errors in the KJV?

None at all.  Other than the occasional printing errors and the changes in spelling, the underlying Hebrew and Greek texts have never been changed in the King James Bible.

I'll be waiting for a response specific to these.  
Grace and Peace!

You just got them.


Will K