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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
286230 Posts in 27567 Topics by 3790 Members
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16  Theology / General Theology / Re: KJV--Where Do YOU Stand ?? on: January 31, 2011, 03:39:16 PM
Yeah I have been down that road a few times as well.  Something else for people to always consider is the intent of the version or translation.  Some versions were not intended to be word for word type of translations but idea or thought translations.  The Message is an example of one that is an idea translation in that it takes what is said and attempts to interpret what is said, so that the reader gets the idea, the thoughts behind the verses.  You would not want to get into a discussion about the literal translation of the Greek and Hebrew by bring The Message with you.
17  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re: 2520 Days of the Tribulatoin from Feast of Trumpets 2015 to Tisha B'Av 2022 on: January 31, 2011, 09:24:56 AM
Amen  from me

Quote
That's correct. To the best of my knowledge I am the first to know when Jesus returns just like Daniel was the first to know when Jesus would enter Jerusalem and be cut off.
Now that is a flat out incorrectness...heck you might even want to call it a lie.
Go to google and do a search for "Total Lunar Tetrad"
Now unless you are the one behind the plethora of sites that all deal with the tribulation/rapture, and very vew sites that deal with the science of astronomy then what you said is absolutely incorrect. 
18  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re: 2520 Days of the Tribulatoin from Feast of Trumpets 2015 to Tisha B'Av 2022 on: January 28, 2011, 09:12:19 AM
ChurchUnity,  Also I say welcome to the forums.  I do hope that your time here is a good one.

I do have a couple of things for you on this post though..

You have some errors in your information in reference to a Lunar Tetradia.
The Lunar Tetrad is a sequence of 4 consecutive total lunar eclipses.  These are among some of the rarest of events and happen about every 580 some odd years.  So the idea that one happened in the 50's and then again in the 60's is not possible.  We have an excellent grasp on lunar cycles and such, and can predict long term events of the lunar cycles to within a couple of years.

The Bible says we will not know when Christ comes again.  So based on that, I do not believe that God would set His watch to something as predictable as lunar cycles.
19  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re: Paul2's on the Pre-Trib. Rapture on: January 27, 2011, 03:07:30 PM
I agree completely.  I have heard both sides and both have points.  I have mentioned that I believe in an age of reason.  But I also know that even if I am wrong on that....my Savior has already paid my cover charge, and God will correct me when I stand before Him.  It has not changed my drive to ensure that children are saved as early as they can fully understand that.  It is a true dichotomy for me, because if there is a mental age of reason, then I do not want them to grow up to quickly and they should enjoy that innocence.  But I also try and teach as young as I can and in many aspects push them to grow up so that they can then fall under the Grace of Jesus.
20  Theology / Debate / Re: What 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 mean ?? on: January 27, 2011, 10:46:14 AM
So nothing in the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) was written for the Gentile, it was all for the Jew?  Is that your stance?
Can you provide Biblical backing for that?
21  Theology / Debate / Re: Is Matt 26:20-29 for us today ??? on: January 27, 2011, 10:41:28 AM
Dan...I still wait for you to post yours...you were the original poster, not me.  I have simply been trying to get you to clarify what it is you were trying to say.  On a couple of points you made I did disagree with you, but I did not say you interpreted it wrong, I have simply been trying to say we have no idea how you are trying to interpret it because you do not give enough detail and do not explain your stance.
22  Theology / Debate / Re: How many PLANS of salvation are there ?? on: January 27, 2011, 10:37:40 AM
Hi BJ  , how is dispensation spelled in English in Eph 3:2 Huh?

 Is it  OIKONOMIA ?   

 I rest my case .  Maybe you need a new dictionary ??   dan p

You rest your case?  Rest your case on what?
How is dispensation spelled in English.....it is spelled dispensation

YOU were the one who brought up OIKONOMIA not me.  YOU were the one whose half writing tried to state OIKONOMIA was a mix of OIKOS and NOMOS directly.  It was YOU who failed at presenting your point...again.  Maybe if you used a dictionary once in a while you might actually get a better understand?
23  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re: Paul2's on the Pre-Trib. Rapture on: January 27, 2011, 08:27:39 AM
I tend to believe as you do Tom.  However there is also Scriptural evidence to suggest that even children are not spared.  There were no children spared before the flood.

Gen 6:5  Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. (NASB)
the man referred to here is mankind.  We know this because we see that Noah was the only one who found favor in the entire race.  Not a child, but a man and his wife were selected from all of mankind.

Also there was no age restrictions on the first born to be taken of Egypt.

We also see no children spared in Sodom or Gomorrah.

In Deut 20 we see the Hittites, Amorites, Canannites, and the Perrizites that the Israelites were to run across were to have nothing that breathes left behind.  We know this includes children because in previous verses it talks about other places the children are to be spared.

And when Paul states that 'all have sinned' we do not see an exception clause to that. 

Again I agree that the age of reason fits into a loving God, a just God, and there is some Biblical evidence to suggest it.  However it is not clearly spelled out in the Bible, and there is also Biblical evidence to suggest that there is no age of reason. 

It is also important to note a couple of things.  Age of reason or not, should not change your spiritual stance with God.  If you accept an age of reason, be ready to support it Biblicly as Tom has pointed out many great verses to support it.  If you do not support it then again be ready to Biblicly show that all are sinners and not excluded from a sin nature, and that God is just in all His actions and we should not hold our standards of right and wrong to God, but instead should abandon our ideas of right and wrong and adopt God's.
24  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re: Paul2's on the Pre-Trib. Rapture on: January 25, 2011, 12:59:46 PM
Hard to be "husband of one wife" unless you have some other sin going on Smiley
25  Theology / Debate / Re: What 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 mean ?? on: January 20, 2011, 04:34:05 PM

 Hi Bother Jerry and am sorry that you are missing my teaching on Matt 16 . 

 #1 , THE WORD CHURCH in Matt 16:18  is talking about an Assembly of believers   NOT  the Body of Christ , and do you see that  BJ

DAN P

What makes you think that Jesus is speaking of only an assembly of believers and not the entire assembly of believers, which is the body of Christ?  Which also begs the questions how do you differentiate between the Body of Christ and the whole of all believers?

And please it is not so much that I missed anything, but that you have not explained your position well enough.  Smiley
26  Theology / Debate / Re: What 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 mean ?? on: January 20, 2011, 09:26:25 AM
And there is where you are wrong Dan.  I do not look bad for asking you to explain your original position.  I do not look bad for asking you to clarify points in your original post.  It is you who used logical fallacies in attempting to bolster your point by doing nothing but ask questions instead of answering questions already posited to you.

And by the way I did answer your questions, but of course you apparently did not see those answers.  I stated that they were clear in what they said.  I have already stated that vs 14 is a water baptism, a symbolic baptism.  I also stated that vs 17 is clearly what it states.  But I challenged you on both of those and many others to explain what you feel they mean.  But you have yet to do so.

And sorry Dan...you have yet to even start to debate.  Debate requires discussion, and more importantly a discourse on what your actual point is.  You have made few, and none in relation to your original post.  Now if you would like to start over and explain the point you were trying to make, then please do so.
27  Theology / Debate / Re: How many PLANS of salvation are there ?? on: January 20, 2011, 09:19:54 AM
Quote
Hi Bother Jerry and even when I explained what  OIKONOMIA  means in the Greek  you stumble at what Paul means by it , so let me clarify for you .

 OIKOS means House .

 NOMOS means Law .

 Check VINE'S  and clear it up /

 So what does  house law's means and what i8s Paul talking about so , lets give an example first .

 Under the Law of Mo0se they had 613 laws that governed Israel , agreed ??

 Under Pauline truth the laws the govern us are the following ;

Justification

Reconciliation


Indwelling Holy Spirit


Eternal life
 
New nature


Grace of God , that is what the Dispensation that Paul is talking about .


 These are what is  not in the Old Testament  dan p

First off you have not explained anything.  This post is the FIRST mention of OIKONOMIA that you have used in this thread.  Which does not help your credibility any, nor does it do anything to futher explain your point.

Secondly you are not exactly correct in your definition of NOMOS.  It can be a law, but only loosely.  It is anything that is established by usage.  The Law of Moses was established by God.  NOMOS would be a tradition or routine, that is followed by obeying the law.  Always checking to make certain you have your wallet in your pocket as you buckle your seat belt is NOMOS.  It is something that is established because of the law.

And then you wrongfully attempt to put OIKOS and NOMOS together to make your meaning for OIKONOMIA which has it's own definition which is the management of a household.  And as mentioned when viewing the definition of the english word dispensation, the proper definition would be "the divine ordering of worldly affairs" and there is nothing different about that, God ordained it from the moment He created it.  It was always about faith, is still about faith. 

Your "under Pauline truth"  Sorry it is not Paul's truth, but Jesus' truth.  Paul merely speaks the same thing that Jesus spoke and that was foretold in the OT.   

Maybe instead of attempting to discuss one or two points without laying down a foundation of where you are coming from, you should start a different post and lay down your position completely.  Explain your dispensations and why you believe in each of those. 
28  Theology / Debate / Re: How many PLANS of salvation are there ?? on: January 18, 2011, 02:40:37 PM
Hi Brother Jerry , so where were Dispensations created "  by man "  , and you wrote that and what do explain Eph 3:1-9 or maybe the Holy Spirit messe3d up by inserting 1 Cor 9:`7  where The  Holy Spirit says that  A   Dispensation  of the Gospel is committed unto me .

 Or , explain Col 1:25  " according to the DISPENSATION  of God that was given to me for you , to  FULFILL  the word of God .

 I would like to hear your answer !   dan p

Do you know what a dispensation is?
Here let's pull out the definitions
a. An exemption from a church law, a vow, or another similar obligation granted in a particular case by an ecclesiastical authority
b. The divine ordering of worldly affairs.
c. A religious system or code of commands considered to have been divinely revealed or appointed.

Now a. is pretty much out, we are not speaking of exemptions here.  So that leaves b. and c.  And what you appear to be implying is that either there was a different ordering of world affairs that started in Acts 9.  And by most hyper-dispensationalists there were other dispensations before and after Acts 9.  So how many times do you believe God changed the ordering of worldly affairs?
If you are not going off of that definition then lets look at c.  At what time do you believe God changed any of His commands?  As a matter of fact Jesus kept the 10 Commandments and expanded upon those.  Most of the rest of the OT commands Jesus fulfilled.  There was a different dispensation in the strictest of senses when Jesus died and was risen.  But after that...nothing until the second coming.

You cite 1 Corinthians 9:17.  Can you please explain how the Gospel referred to there is any different than the Gospel message anywhere else.  You will not be able too because Paul is speaking of the Gospel message.  This is clear from the verses before and after.  This is nothing new that is mentioned.

Colossians 1:25  Again please provide any evidence where this "dispensation" is any different than the Gospel of Christ?

Ephesians 3.  Again how is what Paul says a different dispensation than anything else?  it is not.  Paul was not the first to go to the Gentiles...God was.  We even have example with Jesus and the Samaritan woman at the well.  What Paul preaches is THE dispensation which is Jesus Christ, that is the same for all, Jew and Gentile alike.  To try and put more into it than that, is a creation of man and is bound for failure.

Again you attempt to express your point by saying little.  I point out once again that you have not explained your stance with enough detail.  And you think asking me questions is a defense for your stance?  Sorry the Biblical evidence is clear there is no special dispensation given to Paul that is any different than any given to anyone else. 
29  Theology / Debate / Re: How many PLANS of salvation are there ?? on: January 17, 2011, 09:42:28 AM
Amen Brother.

And the FACT that Jesus said that NO MAN may come before the Father but through Him, trumps any and all dispensations that man can create.  There is but one Gospel, there is but one plan of salvation.

#1 not certain why you would think that Grace only started at Acts 9...it has been going since Gen 1:1

#2 There were saved Jews before Christ.  Enoch and Elijah are two that immediately come to mind as being spared a physical death and we are told are with God.

#3 You are trying to discuss on a different thread and have yet to explain your position.

Sorry but once again your argument falls short, primarily because you do not explain yourself.  But I have seen the hyper dispensationalism before and it fails in the light of the Biblical evidence.

30  Theology / Debate / Re: What 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 mean ?? on: January 17, 2011, 08:54:57 AM
Quote
Hi Bother Jerry , and here is what you should explain and it is #14  , Is this baptism  WET  or  DRY ??

 Have verse for your explanation .

 And what is your exegesis of #17 ??

 On 2  Cor2:10 the Holy  Spirit writes through Paul  , To whom ye forgive  ANYTHING , I forgive also  , for IF I forgave any thing , to whom I forgave it , for your sakes forgave  I it  in  THE  PERSON  OF  CHRIST .

 The 12 Apostles could forgives sins in John 20:23 and Paul had as much authority !!
no Dan.  I should not have to explain anything.  You were the original poster here.  You were the one trying to make a point and you are the one who is failing miserably at that.

If you are getting something from verse 14 you should explain what it is you are trying to say.

If you have some other meaning than what the verse plainly states in verse 14 or verse 17 then it is on you to explain what it is you are talking about.
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