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March 29, 2024, 11:15:43 AM

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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
286777 Posts in 27568 Topics by 3790 Members
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1  Entertainment / Laughter (Good Medicine) / Re:This Is Way Too Funny!!! on: May 21, 2005, 01:17:40 PM
thanks, bronzesnake, the guy's laughter was so hilarious I was laughing even when I couldn't quite make out what he was saying  Grin
2  Entertainment / Laughter (Good Medicine) / Re:Laughter - Good Medicine on: May 21, 2005, 12:37:43 PM
Here's some I got in an e-mail.  thought some of them were pretty funny and some that just make you think.

CHRISTIAN ONE LINERS:

"Don't let your worries get the best of you, remember, Moses started out as a basket case"

Some people are kind, polite, and sweet-spirited - until you test their favorite doctrine.

Many folks want to serve God, but only as advisers.

It is easier to preach ten sermons than it is to live one.

The good Lord didn't create anything without a purpose, but mosquitoes come close.  (I would have said roaches but this will do)

When you get to your wit's end, you'll find God lives there.

People are funny in that they want the front of the bus, the middle of the road, and the back of the church.

Opportunity may knock once, but temptation bangs on your front door forever.

Quit griping about your church; if it were perfect, you couldn't belong.

If the church wants a better pastor, it only needs to pray for the one it has.

God Himself does not propose to judge a man until he is dead. So why should you?

Some minds are like concrete, thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.

Peace starts with a smile.

I don't know why some people change churches; what difference does it make which one you stay home from?

A lot of church members who are singing "Standing on the Promises" are just sitting on the premises.

We were called to be witnesses, not lawyers or judges.

Be ye fishers of men. You catch them - He'll clean them.

Coincidence is when God chooses to remain anonymous.

Don't put a question mark where God put a period.

Don't wait for 6 strong men to take you to church.

Forbidden fruits create many jams.

God doesn't call the qualified, He qualifies the called.

God grades on the cross, not the curve.

God loves everyone, but probably prefers "fruits of the spirit" over "religious nuts!"

God promises a safe landing, not a calm passage.

He who angers you, controls you!

If God is your Copilot - swap seats!

Prayer: Don't give God instructions -- just report for duty!

The task ahead of us is never as great as the Power behind us.

The Will of God will never take you to where the Grace of God will not protect you.

We don't change the message, the message changes us.

You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage him.

The best mathematical equation I have ever seen: 1 cross + 3 nails = 4 given.
3  Fellowship / Just For Women / Re:Religious Women on: May 21, 2005, 11:39:02 AM
If it hasn't come to your attention yet, there is a thread in Theology under Apologetics called "Re:ARE WOMEN ALLOWED TO SPEAK IN CHURCH?", that you might find interesting, especially since some men have responded.

M, I liked your point about Deborah prophesying that because the soldier wanted her to go to battle with him, he would lose the honor of killing Sesera.   It made me think of Isa 28:6 where it says "For a spirit of justice to him who sits in judgment, And for strength to those who turn back the battle at the gate."   It seems Deborah's place was to sit in judgment and his to "turn back the battle" and he confused the two callings, maybe as assurance that the battle would do better with her there or who knows?  
4  Fellowship / Just For Women / Re:Modest Clothing on: May 21, 2005, 11:26:12 AM
I read that article, very thoughtful and concisely put.   Who is James Martin?
5  Theology / Debate / Re:Rightly dividing the Word of Truth on: May 21, 2005, 09:48:24 AM
"How do these things get started? Do you think it is a matter of tradition? "

Great point, hopes_daughter, and then there's the hymn that goes "we three kings of orient are..", (sorry don't recall the name of the song).  

I think sometimes things like this get started because there are those who are convinced their studies have "proven" them correct.  And that those who follow the 'tradition' oftentimes either don't think about it or don't know the difference.  Maybe too it's part of our human tendency to sentimentality attached to things traditional.

You'll notice in Matt 2:11, it says  "And when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child."  House, not stable, and young child, not babe.   Herod tried to have all the boys killed "from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the wise men"(v16), so perhaps it was close to 2 years before the magi arrived in Bethlehem.  

I've read that because there were 3 gifts it was assumed there were 3 magi.  I've read from other studies that there was more likely to have been an entire procession of magi, on camel back, because no one who had possessions as valuable as what they carried, or who came to see such a dignitary, would travel in such small numbers, due both to the honor of the visit and the dangers of the road.

It'll be interesting to see what others have to say on this topic.
6  Theology / Apologetics / Re:ARE WOMEN ALLOWED TO SPEAK IN CHURCH? on: May 18, 2005, 12:23:26 PM
Hi Bawilli,

About your question, let me say that what I will say is going to be disagreed with by many and has been already on other threads and forums.   But, and let me tell you up front, this is not a simple answer.  I don't think there is one.  Your question is more difficult than you may know.   There are whole schools of thought and whole denominations that adhere to them that say Paul meant exactly what he said, for all women, in all churches.   There are others that say what he said was cultural and concerned a particular matter at the particular time he wrote it.

Here is what I posted on another forum.   Hope it helps somewhat to answer your very good question:

Take 1 cor 14:34 for example:

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

For those who think this applies across the gender, the logic goes "Ok, if you can't talk, you sure can't for instance, prophesy, or preach, or teach.  Then, in many minds is added, "in fact, you are "commanded" to be under  the man; why, even the law says so."  A corrective word here seems needful:  "commanded" is not even in the manuscripts, surprise, surprise.  

As for the law saying so, I sought diligently and found not one of the 10 commandments that have mention of women speaking or not speaking in the churches.   Also found none in the books of law of the Bible.    

So you gotta ask yourself, what law is Paul speaking about?  Jewish doctine, perhaps, but surely man-made, and not God ordained.  When combined with the non-existent "commanded" however, this "commandment" has the appearance of spiritual authority, but lacks the reality of it.  

Now, let's take a better look at this verse AND its context:   Let your women keep silence in the churches for it is not "permitted" (KJV Greek Lexicon defines (first definition) this as "to turn to, transfer, commit, instruct" and only the 2nd definition is "to permit, allow, give leave "."   Why was the 2nd definition used?  

Is it possible that it was because the transcribers over the years were male and that is the way that seemed appropriate to them, considering their cultural context?  If anyone can honestly say "no" to that I'm not going to argue, but you are wrong.  

If you put the first words from the first definition into the statement you can come up with things like...."for they are not turned to to speak", an absolute statement of fact FOR THE CULTURAL CONTEXT:  Neither the "heathen" Greeks nor the Jews allowed women to speak in public.  Greek women are documented as being kept incommunicado by the males who "ruled" them, by many historical archives.  Jews prayed every morning, "Thank you, God, for not making me a woman".  For all I know, the observant ones still do.   I DOUBT that means they hold (held) women in high esteem.

As for the women not speaking in church, Paul himself says in verse 23 of this passage, "If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?"

Notice he says "whole" church, and if "all" speak in tongues...

and in verse 24 "But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:"

notice it is "all" who prophesy (not "you men") and ALL who convince the unbelieving and ALL who are said to have "judged" the unbeliever.

Verse 25 says:  And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

By the prophesying of ALL, the speaking of ALL, whether in tongues or prophesy, the unbelieving is now convinced that God is among them.  

How then is Paul supposed to be saying, "oh yeah, you women, you keep silent".   The cultural context seems to be the only explanation!   A paraphrase might be something like:  

"You are not "turned to" or "expected" (in today's words) to speak in public, by the unbelieving, so be under "obedience".  (If you see an unbeliever in the midst of the church), remember it is not to you they will turn to to hear teaching or behaving with authority...walk with circumspection in your prophesying or speaking in tongues.  

As for being under "obedience", that word is defined as (ibid):

1.  to arrange under, to subordinate
2.  to subject, put in subjection
3,  to subject one's self, obey
4.  to submit to one's control
5.  to yield to one's admonition or advice
6.  to obey, be subject

These definitions definitively indicate a VOLUNTARY submission and not a "command performance" of silence.
 
How male Christians can possibly interpret this passage to mean "we rule, we alone can lead, and if we don't there will be chaos", is highly illogical.  

Paul certainly didn't say that here, and he didn't only speak to women in this passage which he wrapped up by saying in verse 40 "Let all things be done decently and in order".  This is the same message he pointed out in verse after verse:

(28-33, for instance):  28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
   
As for women's place in the church, I'm convinced that it is wherever the calling of God places them.   Some are gifted teachers, others are gifted at being "mothers in Israel" to the congregation they meet with, some are evangelists, others might be called to go to the mission field.   If the church were not currently so much an audience, speaker type of situation, if all did as Paul spoke of, having a psalm, hymn, prophecy, etc when gathered together, we'd soon know what our calling is, I think.  

As it is, we have to depend on an interior knowing and that in spite of well-meaning negative input if you do happen to share your "vision".     God is able, thankfully, to overcome all obstacles to let us know what He has called us to do in this life.   Put yourself in His hands and ask Him to show you the way He has chosen for you.  It might happen instantly that He will tell you, but more likely there will be, over time, a certain "knowing" in your inner man that "this" is what I'm all about.

7  Theology / General Theology / Re:The Church on: May 17, 2005, 09:49:02 AM
Bronzesnake
One more thing and I'm jumping this ship.
You have this battery of blue stars by your name, a big flashing logo and a formidable name “BRONZESNAKE”. I’ve noticed that when ones disagree with you, it always comes down to “just stating the facts” “immature” “childish logic” “naïve” “wishy washy” “wrong my friend” and so on. I only have one little tiny gold star, but outside the cyber-church here, I am a 52-year-old father of two. I grew up on a cattle ranch in Montana, I’ve been a Christian for 35 years (long time in the microwave). I am not childish nor do I lightly consider the Word or blithely arrive at what I call logic. Your attempts to quash by intimidation are ill spent... “my friend”.

Your recent statement about the servant not being greater than his master was pitifully misused.

Matt 10:24-25
24. The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
(KJV)


Jesus was affirming to them (and us) that we will also suffer persecutions. He further illiterates His view of ‘masterhood’ in John 13:12-17


12. So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
13. Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
14. If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
15. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
16. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
17. If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do
(KJV)


Here is the definitive illustration of  the humility and care expected to operate in a “master” in the Kingdom of God

When you “state the facts”, as you call it about the absurdity of participatory church meetings you are sorely in error. The Plymouth Bretheren and The brethren assemblies (small “b” their choice) have been meeting in the way I have described for a couple of centuries. Their way of meeting grew directly out of the work and ministry of John Nelson Darby (laaaaaaaaats of blue stars). Many other groups meet this way and there is ample scriptural precedent for it whether your “facts” affirm it or not.

Anyway..lighten up…moderate but don’t castigate.

Bairn

I hope you read this before you give up in disgust, bairn.. I give you a loud, emphatic and fully cognizant AMEN!   Moderators and their "friends" have the last word, and perhaps that is as it should be.   Nevertheless, I am with you, I'm outie.  

Y'all have a nice life sitting in your wrong church and under the wrong pastor (Before you beef up an answer to that, blackeyedpeas, look at your own words to felix102).

Just one set of last thoughts for you:  "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers"...how does a new born one get to that time?  Have you ever done anything well you didn't practice first?   Have you ever had a wrong thought that was corrected in a spirit of meekness (not in the "I know better than you everything" attitude on this forum?) and realized that you'd been on a wrong track, and been grateful for a change in direction?   Did you get there by sitting under one man who may or may not know how you're thinking cuz you never talk to the "star"?

8  Theology / General Theology / Re:The Church on: May 17, 2005, 12:37:10 AM
felix102 said, "Where two or three gather in the Lord's name, there the Lord will be in our midst. It is Lord Jesus Himself who is building the church up as we gather together and speak. If we are still in our minds, your conviction Bronzesnake, will be true. It will be unorganized and "incompetant" people will share stupid things. But we are not lead by our own minds, we are lead by the spirit. That is how we will all drink from the same spirit and worship God in spirit and truthfulness."

How refreshing to hear the trust in the Spirit of God vouchsafed here.   Instead of how horrible it would be if an unlearned fisherman (oops, I meant church goer) should say something inaccurate, and that would lead another of the simple sheep astray.  

If we are Christian, by definition, we have the mind of Christ.  If that mind is to be used, it must be exercised by the one possessing it.   Yet the present system keeps the new born in their pews, silent and untested, afraid to speak, and because they are not being given opportunity to express what the Spirit is speaking to them, it stays within, effectively preventing anyone else from hearing it.  

No wonder so many young people stay so far from traditional churches.   Nothing to say, nothing to do but to sit silently and listen to someone "learned" speak what may have no  connection to what they do know as life.

In addition, the usual system is, as felix102 pointed out, part of the clergy vs laity system that has spawned authoritative and divisive hierarchy within the Body of Christ which was never meant to exist.   1 Cor 12:14 "For in fact the body is not one member but many"

Someone has said that Paul was a teacher and didn't have church members speaking in church when he was speaking.  Where that came from, I fail to find in Scripture.   But even if he was the main one speaking, he is the one that did speak the verses in 1 Cor concerning the psalms, hymns, etc that each one had and that Scripture has been posted already.  

I see that even then, in the face of those verses, there are still those who want to argue that Paul didn't really mean it, he was just telling them how they were behaving, not advocating the behavior.   And this in plain view of 1 Cor 12:4  "There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.", and the like.

As 'SOMEONE' has said, "But wisdom is justified by her children."    
9  Theology / General Theology / Re:The Church on: May 16, 2005, 01:18:15 PM
I was suggesting that pastors would not embrace the open sharing of the members in the general church meetings. Modern church meetings have evolved into a "stage and audience" affair. If you read and re-read 1cor.:14 it seems clear that Paul took for granted that a church meeting was a matter of all sharing ("all may prophesy").... the general on going meetings seemed to be a mutual sharing of psalms, doctrines, tounges, revelations, etc.. These meetings...were never to be the kind of audience and celebrity situation we now have. I was saying in my reply to Felix that to ask a pastor to change the format of their meetings to include the free and open sharing of all the members, to place equal value on the spiritual insights and contributions of all in attendence and not just the bible school graduate, would meet with instant disapproval.

There is a richness and a completeness to be had in a meeting where each one contributes. If we are in say, Eph:4 and I hear a teacher for 15 or twenty minutes and then hear 20 or so brothers and sisters bring their experiences and insights regarding the matter at hand... oh my! what a full and satisfying handling of ephesians 4 ! If someone stands and goes too long or off the mark for that meeting, then one in leadership can gently set things on track. This is my experience, it's what I read in the Word.

The sharing of spiritual matters however is reserved for the so-called clergy.

Couldn't have said it better myself, so I won't Cool.  Will just add that if you asked pastors why not, they'd probably give a variety of answers but all would probably boil down to, "I wouldn't be in control".  If forced to be honest, some might even have to say, "I wouldn't be the star".

The way the church in general Christianity is run today, a very small body of folk run everything, then complain because they don't have any "helpers" in the nursery, etc.  

Personally speaking, first pray about it and then if the answer seems to be to have home meetings anyway, invite a few to your home, make it available for, say, a Bible study, and let everyone have a say in the discussion.  It's your home, you have the authority to quiet any disagreement or overly enthusiastic proponents of one or the other pet doctrines.  There is no law that says in order to head a ministry of whatever size, you must have been ordained or otherwise recognized as a Christian "leader".  

If your pastor objects, invite him to sit in, but don't let him take over.  And don't think you must or you're not "under authority".   I know pastors like to throw that around, as well as some other Christians who basically may just be the type that doesn't like to "make waves".

It seems the church in general could use a little shaking up, maybe you are one who could continue the biblical model.  And be advised that as far as the type of church felix102 is describing, there are many others that have as many if not more fellowship type of gatherings, small and large.  

It is not impossible, regardless of your home situation, to make time for fellowship.  It is just something that isn't planned for much and so seems inconvenient, and especially would to those who have busied themselves with multiple jobs, cars, bills, etc etc etc.   I have been part of such gatherings and had them at my own home as well, and I was a single mom raising two children, going to school and working a full-time and a part-time job.   It wasn't easy, but it was enjoyable, and I learned a very great deal at the same time.
10  Theology / Debate / Re:Thoughts on Benny Hinn??? on: May 16, 2005, 12:56:29 PM
I feel I can begin this post by stating for the record that I am not a follower of Benny Hinn, nor of any other public figure in Christianity.  I've felt during the earlier posting that to state this would be construed as self-defensive, and I refuse to defend myself on those grounds.  But let it be known to any who have thought otherwise that I follow no man in doctrine.  

I have been a student of the Bible for many years and have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ that allows me freedom to discern truth from error.  And if I should be led into error, I'm convinced that the Holy Spirit, who guides the sons of God. will lead me directly back out.  That is not to say I believe my set of doctrines to be without error.  No one should be that bold so long as 1 Cor 13:9, 12 are in Scripture.

The point on this thread doesn't appear to really be about whether or not Benny Hinn or any other public Chrisitan figure is a false teacher.   Even if it were, the posts on this forum HAVE NO EFFECT on his/their teaching, and only reach those who read the posts.   What the negative posts seem to be about are personal attacks on a figure who has had a good deal of negative publicity written about them.  Those who seem agreeable to the negativity say that they must correct false teaching.

Therefore, I insist that to speak ill of them is NOT the same as correcting false teaching.  If correcting false teaching were the aim, no names or name calling would be necessary at all.   A simple, "this is not so, and here's why" would suffice.  

Not all the negative posts go so far as to post slanderous remarks, or speak ill of public figures, but some do and other posters are further tempted to do so by agreement from posters who would appear to have been Christians long enough to know that to provoke someone else to do wrong is worse than doing it yourself.

Pastor Roger, you posted and addressed this statement to me and felix102, "Since you are so willing to condemn people for what they have to say about Benny Hinns teachings and are not willing to take what they have to say in the matter...".

Neither of the your statements are true.   And here's why:   neither felix102 nor I have condemned anyone, in fact it is not in our power to do so, nor do I, and I believe felix102 is wise enough also that he does not, have any desire to condemn anyone.  

Neither are either of us, (I believe I can speak for felix102), unwilling to consider that someone may be a false teacher if our spirits indicated we should look into it.  

So, again, at the risk of just repeating what I've said before and what a few others have said in agreement, I say again, why go to the point of evil speaking when it is not necessary for the goal you proclaim yourself to have?  

If you wish to make sure those who read your posts get the truth, then post it.  If what someone says is false, post that and then post the truth.  Let us see what you teach.  Let us discern what you proclaim, to see if it is the truth or not.
11  Theology / Debate / Re:Thoughts on Benny Hinn??? on: May 15, 2005, 03:16:38 PM
[qoute]
"Scripture plainly tells us to reprove and rebuke false teachers."    Where?
Quote

2Ti 4:2  Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort  (WHO?) with all longsuffering and doctrine....
 
Tit 1:13  This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them WHO? sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Tit 2:15  These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke (WHAT THINGS?) with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

As a matter of record, let me point out that neither Benny Hinn nor others of those labelled as "false teachers" are very likely to read this forum's posts.   So, then there is no correction of him or any of the others' called "false teachers" on this forum.   There is however, accusations and backbiting, which as a matter of definition is speaking evil about a person not present.

This is what my posts are addressing, not whether the accusations of false teaching are true or incorrect, but this:  1 Cor 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.  First, we must recognize no one of us has all Truth.

Therefore, to believe we know someone else is teaching falsely and we are called upon to correct them, requires this:

1.  That we address it to them.  
2.  That we ask for prayer from others who are equally discerning that the false teaching would not continue.
3.  That we would teach those who ask for it or who appear to be in need of it, what the true teaching of Christ is to the best of our ability.  

To do the above, no accusations, or slander, or evil speaking in posts is required.   Dependence on God alone is definitely required, and humbling.  
12  Theology / Debate / Re:Thoughts on Benny Hinn??? on: May 15, 2005, 02:58:45 PM
Hmmm, let's see, Evangelist:

Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Way of Cain - he killed his brother out of jealousy
Error of Balaam - he was going to curse God's people for reward
Gainsaying (rebelling) of Core - now this was a bit more difficult, but according to the Lexicon, Core refers to Korah, a man who, along with others, rebelled against God's chosen leader.

Now just who did you say this verse refers to?
13  Theology / General Theology / Re:Refuges on: May 13, 2005, 04:45:57 PM
Hi, felix102

Hope you are doing well in your studying.   I appreciate your taking time to answer my post even though I don't want you to get in trouble with either your finals or your mom.

What say we put a cap on the posts for now and come back when you have more time.  I'll get a notification when you respond.  

By the way, thanks for the other sites.  I'll check them out.

God bless and may you be aware He is with you every second in a very conscious way.

 
14  Theology / Debate / Re:Thoughts on Benny Hinn??? on: May 12, 2005, 07:54:15 PM
Evangelist, excuse me, but Benny Hinn and others publicly scorned, esp in Christian forums, say they are brothers, not public teachers, and when did you ever see a public school teacher chastized in public for teaching evolution?

"FYI, Mr. Hinn (and others) have been approached in private, and have refused (on numerous occasions) to amend their teachings."

FYI, by whom, if you know and are not printing yet more hearsay?   Who says what they teach is incorrect?  You?  Do you not know we "know in part"?   That even "knowledge" shall be done away with?

Pastor Roger, I'm surprised you don't recognize the NKJV then.  I copied/pasted from the Bible itself. and it says "dignitaries".  

"Nor are we as individuals judging this man but rather the Word of God is."   Really?  How about this quote from one of "we"?  "...LeHaye is a heretic!"  "Benny Hinn is a joke", and I especially found this one enlightening and heartwarming, "This guy is an antichrist.  The opening to his show says it all: he shakes hands with the pope."

How is the Word judging Benny Hinn?  The Word Himself said He did not come to judge the world but to save it, even though all judgement is given Him.   I say those who post ungracious, unloving and accusatory words against one who says he is a brother, is himself puffed up with what he thinks is "higher" or "better" knowledge, and is himself deceived in thinking he is acting like a Christian.  

"Scripture plainly tells us to reprove and rebuke false teachers."    Where?

"Learn a little discernment.... ", that is the attitude of a haughty and arrogant Pharisee, not a brother of Christ, and I say to you, "teacher, teach yourself".    See if it is meek and mild or arrogant and proud to "lord it over" another's faith.  You assume you know the Truth, and that Benny Hinn and others you criticize are not teaching it.   How is it that you are so blessed as to be holder of all truth?   And someone who has been a Christian for a very long time is a false teacher "pursuing filthy lucre" because you say so?

Surely you will say now that you have personally heard Mr, Hinn say something that was shockingly irreverent against God, the Holy Spirit, or Jesus?  If so, I ask you to post it, and prove it, and not by hearsay but by reality.  

The kinds of things said against public figures in Christianity are not so easy to stand against, but are whispers from a church that knows no sort of loyalty to its members, no regard except for their own understanding of God's PRECIOUS Word, and cares not at all that the world is damning the very ones you damn with even less reason.  

I'm sure the enemy of our souls rejoices to see such folly.

"Finally.....your quote of 2 Pet. and Jude is better applied to those false teachers themselves...".  Since you dare criticize my choice of Scripture, as if you are a judge of how the interpretation should be aimed, how about this one?  

Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice.

Finally, and I do not call you brothers, since you have shown me the implication that you are Christian cannot be taken at face value but must, in the basement of my human reasoning, be sorted and sifted and JUDGED by how "I" think you are doing, if you are of the Truth or not.  And based on "MY" judgement, I may determine if you are worthy of my respect or not. If not, I may call you names, insinuate and state out right that you are not Christian, but a "false teacher".  

I'm sure you would say to me, "Of course, I am a Christian".  "Do you not see Pastor in front of my name?   Do you not see I have named myself Evangelist?   HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY STATION?  

And so I say the same to you, HOW DARE YOU QUESTION ANONE WHO SAYS THEY ARE CHRISTIAN?   Can you not question their teaching?   Can you not attempt to see why they teach as they do?   Must you assume it is to "pursue filthy lucre"?   Must you think as the world thinks?

One poster asked if we saw the 20-20 interview with Mr Hinn.  Now there is a question.   And then to use the information from that interview to further denigrate Mr Hinn?  What are you thinking?
15  Theology / Debate / Re:Thoughts on Benny Hinn??? on: May 11, 2005, 10:07:27 PM
Instead of finding fault in posts with public figures, perhaps we'd be better off, if we believe someone is misusing the Word, or is prophesying falsely, to follow Scriptural procedures rather than to "speak evil of" them on posts.

Procedures such as Matt 18:15 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. "

Twice Scriptures warn us:
 
2 Peter 2:9-10 "the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,.."

And Jude 1:8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.

While some say these "dignitaries" mentioned are not of flesh and blood but spiritual, it seems it would be wise not to be found among those who "speak evil of dignitaries", even if it is even remotely possible it may mean Benny Hinn.  
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