Genesis unplugged?

I know they are, and I think that is very sad. Thankfully many of the older hymns have passed out of copyright now, so the words may freely be used, it is usually the music that people copyright. With worship music especially this jsut makes it difficult for the songs to be spread freely.

Being a songwriter in my spare time I've dealt with copyright a little. I used to write secular and Christian songs, and copyright both of them. I felt the Holy Spirit convicting me that to copyright my music made in the name of God was a sin, and I had to repent. While I cannot uncopyright whats been copyrighted, I won't be doing it anymore.

The whole purpose of copyrighting is to ensure that money is recieved by the author of the work in question, and that they have control over what happens to the songs. This is fine up to a point, but if songs are inspired by and written for God, then surely He has co-authorship.

Still I would never have a go at someone because they copyright a song they wrote. Its a personal conviction. However what I do make a stand against is mainstream commercialised Christian music. It is a business and nothing more. The artists and organisations try to justify their merchandise but it is clear to me that it is simply an imitation of the worlds music business. I'm not saying all people who make money out of their ministry are wrong. Its the mass producers of all kinds or paraphenalia that I'm referring to. We can all think of examples of these big organisations. It is especially wrong when their products are not truly building the church up.

! Tim 6:4  he is puffed up, knowing nothing, but doting about questionings and disputes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

5  Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
6  But godliness with contentment is great gain:

7  For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.....

9  But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

I know what you're saying Saphire, and I half agree. If people are not walking with God, then yes there is usually a bigger problem than simply the music they listen to. I also think though that you can't assess whether something is right or wrong by looking at what other people do. Firstly, whats right is not always popular, and whats popular is not always right.. and secondly you don't know their heart. You really don't know what their relationship with God is like beyong the image you see of them.

You described listening to the music in question as a "symptom" and say that it depends how "devoted" they are. Well, with all due respect, I feel that one should not live his Christian life in spite of his interests. Why have somethign in your life that proves a stumbling block to you?

For the same reason I hardly watch TV anymore because its just another way for Satan to directly pump evil thoughts and images into my mind.

The biggest grievance I have is not actually with the secular metal bands.. their music is ungodly, but they do not know the truth, so I don't expect them to have the same opinions and values as me. What does sicken me though is the relatively recent move by Christians towards wordly music. I realise that one can take this a little too far, and on that count I suppose its just a matter of personal conviction, but I feel the Holy Spirit is grived by "Christian  Death metal, black metal, heavy rock" and a few other sorts of music. It imitates the world, and usually poorly at that.

It was mentioned that some bands have "sold out"... why do you think that is? I'm not talking record sales here.. hehe

I believe its because they have stepped into the world when God is saying to Christians:

Revelation 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Isaiah 1:18  Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

God hates mixture. Not sure he's overly bothered about laundry contamination, but he sure prefers white.. I nkow that much! hehehehe

[and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.]

While it is true that the man is the head. Is not God's will more important than the husbands desires? A woman (like any other believer) must place God's commandments over the will of any other person, including her husbands.

1 Corinthians 7:3  Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
1 Corinthians 7:4  The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

Clearly, despite the mans leadership, it is not a one way thing. This also depends on the man loving his wife as Christ loves the church. If the man fails to live to his job, then as you said, there will be trouble.

while I realise this is slightly out of context here.. I think this verse is applicable:

Galatians 1:10  For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

If a womans husband is leading her into sin, she must confront him, and should not simply obey. That would be foolish.

Good post. Prayer should always be seeking to accomplish His will. Praying "in Jesus name" is not just tacking  the phrase "in Jesus name" on the end of whatever we pray. It is getting to know the mind of Christ, and praying according to that.

Thanks for your post.

Hey my names Bern(ard), as you've probably guessed by now. Posted a few times already, but thought I'd introduce myself properly.

I live just south of London, in Kent. I've been a Christian for about 7 years and attend an Evangelical Free church... although really the church and myself are non denominational.

God brought me from a life in the occult into His kingdom, for which I pray I will become ever more thankful. I'm 24, single with no kids. (Praise God! LOL) My only goal now is to grow more like Christ and to get closer to God. If I discover I have any other goals, then I pray God will show me how to get rid of them!

Look forward to chatting to you all.

Thanks for the non flaming reply Reba. I don't expect people to agree with what i say, but I do expect them to examine everything in the light of God's Word. There are many false teachings out there today, and most are very subtle. But like a wedge... the angle of deviance at the tip is very small.. but the further up the wedge you go, the further apart its edges are. So it is with the false teachings today, there is only a small grain of error initially, but it leads to wide deviancy from the truth in the end.

I have many friends who have fallen into deception and it saddens me so much to see them gradually departing from God.

But I'm not all doom and gloom! Its great to actually find a forum where the basic doctrines of salvation are adhered to, and error is not widely promoted.

The rise of islam in the UK is staggering. Big cities like Manchester, Birmingham and London are full of muslims. The church is also in a very bad way here, full of liberalism and ecumenism. No suprise though I suppose.. in the days we live in.

Hungry For More Of Jesus by David Wilkerson.

I found this book very encouraging, and found it gets right to the core issues that should draw us nearer to Christ. Its a small book, but worth the read, its been released in the UK for a pound! Along with another good one.. Good News For Bad People by Roy Hession.

When people point out the truth that is not commonly accepted, they are usually made fun of.. or called a moaner. Or legalistic or some such thing. Thats fine, i've come to accept that I will be given those names. I've given my opinion of various issues on this forum which I know will be riducled because they require thought and a change within peoples hearts.  If someone proves me wrong by scripture then great! I'm happy to be proved wrong if I am in error, and welcome correction. I will know deep down if they have a good point and will always pray and research the points they bring up. I feel that as we get closer to God, we begin to know His mind more and more, the things that upset Him. Sometimes it is difficult to find the scriptures you need to back up your opinions, because that particular thing is not mentioned by name in the bible. It is often an issue which is part of a bigger problem.

Anyway, thanks for the post.

I'm soon going to become unpopular on this forum I can tell. Still I'll say what I have to say.

I was given The Purpose Driven Life by a friend as a present. I very much appreciated it when I read it initially, and thought it was helpful, and there are some good things in it. However, upon my second reading of it ( I always re read books numerous times) I discovered a few things that got my spiritual antennae twitching.

Upon closer insection of what was being said, I found an underlying humanistic theme running throughout the whole book. It is very much centered on self.

It involves the use of a lot of unbiblical ideas derived from human psychology, and refers to numerous people who are known to be in error. Some of which are/ were not even Christians, and were opposed to the truth. Here are a few:

Brother Lawrence—a Roman Catholic mystic who wrote Practicing the Presence of God, and advocated a "higher" form of prayer.

Aldous Huxley—an English writer who published an influential study advocating the use of mescaline to expand perception and consciousness. Huxley, a guru among California hippies, used LSD and became a proponent of New Age and Hindu philosophy

Madame Guyon—a 17th century French Catholic mystic

Anais Nin—a 20th century feminist writer of erotic literature

William James—a 19th century philosopher and psychologist of religion and an advocate of pragmatism and religious pluralism. James wielded a pervasive influence in American religious liberalism as he denied the reality of absolute truth.

Henri Nouwen—cited several times in The Purpose-Driven® Life, Nouwen was a Roman Catholic priest, ecumenist, educator and psychologist; one of the leading figures in introducing psychology into the Roman Catholic Church.

I don't think I need to labour that point any longer.

While still on the subject of humanistic teaching, Warren's views of worship are not accurate either. They seem right at first, and not all he says is wrong.

However he contradicts himself at times, at one point he correctly asserts, "Worship isn't for you. It's for God" (p. 66), while earlier in the book, he stated, "We worship God by enjoying him" (p. 55)—which is partly true, but he puts the amphasis on our fulfillment and not upon God Himself. Warren is basically saying that how you worship is irrelevant; and as long as you do  whatever "most authentically represents your love for God" you are worshipping. Subjective, self-styled and man-centered worship.

The Bible commands us to worship God in spirit, in truth and in the beauty of holiness (Jn. 4:24; Ps. 29:2). Worship is inseperably linked to glorifying Christ, and we cannot do this if we are not grounded in truth. Worship requires reverence and the fear of God! so many today lack the fear of God... and that is the reason for their continuing sinfulness. They don't want to make sacrifices, they want the world and God! He won't allow that, and it is a deception of the heart to think He will.

This brings me to what I consider to be the two most fundamental flaws in Warrens book. There is no emphasis on a holy life. Or correct doctrine. It is very sweeping and ecumenical.
But holiness and correct doctrine arer VITAL in order to please God. If one's faith is founded in a lie, then it is no faith at all. It doesn't matter how sincere you are, you can be sincere and wrong at the same time.

I can't remember where in the book, but Warren talks about the Judgement Seat of Christ. What he says about it is incorrect though.

Warren's claim that God will ask, "What did you do with my Son, Jesus Christ?" cannot be backed up by scripture. The purpose of this judgement is to determine the value of believers works. Not their salvation. That is already decided. The purpose of the Judgement seat of Christ is not to punish believers for their sins, they have already been forgiven! Why else did Christ shed His blood?!!
The Great White Throne Judgement is for unbelievers and relates to salvation.

Warren also says "God won't ask about your religious background or doctrinal views. The only thing that will matter is, did you accept what Jesus did for you and did you learn to love and trust him?"

While I agree that God has no care for denominations and teachings of men and may not ask about your doctrine.... OF COURSE your doctrine matters!! What you believe determines how you are. It determines your attidudes and actions. If you love a false Christ and do not know the true God, then you are living a lie. It may not be deliberate, but that does not make it untrue.

Warren also tells us this:
"God uses circumstances to develop our character. In fact, he depends more on circumstances to make us like Jesus than he depends on our reading the Bible" (p. 193).

"God is always more interested in why we do something than in what we do" (p. 265).

This is a part truth. Mixture of truth and a lie is very dangerous. The Judgement Seat of Christ proves that our works are important to God, not just why we do them, our motives if you like. This whole way of thinking is part of the spirit of this age. The spirit of compromise. How many times have you heard someone say: " Don't judge me, you don't know my motives?" "God looks at the heart, he knows my heart, you don't". Again these statements contain truth, but are not entrely true. These are simply excuses to allow a believer to continue in sin unchallenged. Anyone who attempts to point out the flaws are branded as "legalistic" and "judgmental". Well we are commanded to judge with righteous judgement, how can we be discerning or avoid error if we never asses whether something is right or wrong?! We are also commanded to rebuke our family in love. Not allow them to continue in sin and become useless to God.

While I agree that God uses circumstances to bring us into a deeper relationship with Him. This is not more important than our reading of His Word.

Romans 10:17  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I don't need to say more on this point.

Basically I will sum up my opinion of the book as follows:

It is a humanistic book that contains partial truth. It emphasises our fullfilment, and attempting to please God by methods that seem good to us, not to God. It promotes love and unity at the expense of truth and holiness. In reality God requires all of these.

Bern

I'm pleased someone sees part of what I'm getting at. In no way do I believe that "dressing up" makes us more or less effective as Christians, or more or less acceptable in God's sight. Like silver said, its a question of respect and effort. Its a personal thing. But what Silver mentioned about the way people wore "rock t shirts" was a good example of the teen culture that has invaded church these days. As you might have gathered I have a great dislike for the spirit of this age.. the age of compromise, at least thats how i see it. I wonder how many times I've seen teenagers wearing t shirts promoting some heavy metal band in a church service. A band that dishonours God and is an abomination in His sight.

Wow, I really do sound like an old man don't I? lol

The reason that "teen culture" and all that goes along with it, gets to me so much, is because I see all its effects in churches in my area all the time.  They aren't positive effects either. It seems to just go another step towards the permissiveness towards sin.

But ok the original thread was a lighthearted one about clothes.. so.. lol I wont get sidetracked here.

What Satan offers people is not an alternative. It is a desperately wicked attempt to draw people as far from God as he can get them. The humna heart being what it is, will if left to its own ends naturally give in to temptation. This si somethign i am realising more and more profoundly the older I get as a Christian... no matter how much will power you have.. you CANNOT resist sin. It is not possible. You nkow, in the past I've even cried for hours over my sin wishing to be free from it... only to discover later on that what I was really so upset about was that I was frustrated at not being able to resist it in my own strength.. almost seeing the Holy Spirit as a boost to my own will power! Well that just isnt right!! How desperately wicked and decietful the human heart is. Praise God that if we are truly seeking, he will guide us into all truth though.

I know that there is solid factual evidence for my faith. While I was doing my bio Sciences degree at university here in England, I learned that one does not becoem a Christian because someone proves it is true. People can have you providing reams and reams of solid evidence, but they still may not believe. There are reasons for this is given in the bible, unforunately I can't rember them, which I know is of no use...

John 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


The above has proved so true in my life. I've met people who have a head knowledge of Christ, they even accept logically that He is who He claims to be, YET they are not convicted deep within of their own sin, they still feel no need of a saviour. I was the same when I first came to God, it was only later that I discovered that I wasn't converted when I thought I was..

The impact of the gospel on unbelievers lies in God's Words preached and lived out in the lives of men.

John 13:35  By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Coming from a scientific background I could if I wanted to go into endless debate about proof. But I feel that in the majority of cases it is a total waste of time. Not in every case, but in most cases. Often ( mostly unknowingly) people demand proof because they do not want to be confronted with a challenge that forces them to make a decision one way or the other. They like the heat to be off of themselves and to be able to once again display their own cleverness by making the evangelist look foolish.

Jeremiah 17:9  The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Peope will even decieve themselves that the gospel is false once adequate proof has been given. It happens all the time.