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April 24, 2024, 03:32:28 AM

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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
286803 Posts in 27568 Topics by 3790 Members
Latest Member: Goodwin
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16  Entertainment / Music / Re:What are you listening to right now. on: November 08, 2004, 10:33:42 PM
Modest Mouse - Bankrupt on Selling

great lyrics.
17  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:Revelations on: November 08, 2004, 09:29:46 PM
So then, to clear up any misunderstanding you may have, I'm saying that:

1.  "The beast" with the number 666 is "a race", NOT an individual.

2.  It is "America" which "set up" the beast, and causes all of us to worship him.  (Keep in mind that Daniel discribes how that the beast is "exalted").  Thus Rev.13 is saying that "America" causes ALL to "exalt" him.

I think your hypothesis is creative at best.

But, I won't criticize your ideas.  I'll simply state another interpretation of the book of Revelations.  The one which I believe to be consistent with the intent of it's author.

The natural tendency of people who read this book is to assume that its providing an account of what is still to transpire in our own future.  And so its been understood, down through the ages.  The only problem though is that every generation has assumed that the book is referring to what will happen in its own time.  And so far, of course, every generation has been wrong.  Even though each generation thinks that surely it will be the one.

Our own generation is no exception.  The book of Revelation was used this way by David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, by Marshall Applewhite and Heavens Gate, by most evangelical preachers that you can hear by turning on your TV who talk about the book of revelation, and by scores of serious interpreters of prophesy whose books line the shelves of most Christian bookstores, including second and third editions when the predictions of the first editions have had been modified in light of their failure to come true.

Let's look at some of the imagery in the book.

Chapter 17 Verse 5: And on her forehead a name was written, "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF THE PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."
Chapter 17 Verse 6: I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.
Chapter 17 Verse 9: The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman is seated
Chapter 17 Verse 18: The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth

Who then is this great whore?  Who has committed fornication with all the kings of the earth, is drunk with the blood of the martyrs, bedecked with fine clothes and jewelry?

Which city ruled the world at the end of the 1st century when this book was written?  A city that had persecuted the Christians, leading the flow of their blood?  A city, in fact, that was known throughout antiquity to have been built on the seven hills?  The city of Rome.  Any ancient reader would have recognized this imagery.  Rome, otherwise known as Babylon in the scripture because in the Hebrew bible the enemy of the people of God was the city of Babylon, which destroyed Jerusalem in the 6th century BC and destroyed the first temple.  So Babylon became a codename for the enemy of God.  And now, it’s applied here to the city of Rome, which is a modern Babylon.

What about the great enemy of God, the antichrist?

Chapter 13 Verse 18 : This calls for wisdom: let anyone with understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a person. It’s the number six hundred and sixty-six.

Who was the first emperor of Rome to persecute Christians?  It was the emperor Nero.
When you spell the name Caesar Nero in Hebrew letters and add up the letters it adds up to 666.  According to texts from the 1st and 2nd centuries he was believes, in some Jewish circles, to be about to come back from the dead to again rule Rome and persecute the people of god.

Where did this method for transliterating the letters to numbers?

Gematria is a system for calculating the numerical equivalence of letters, words, and phrases. This system is used for the purpose of gaining insight into interrelating concepts.

This may not be as exciting believing that the antichrist is someone living in our own day, or is someone who is soon to come.  Over the past 50 years we have had devoted Christian authors arguing that 666 must refer to:
Hitler
Mussolini
Henry Kissinger
Saddam Hussein
And even Ronald Wilson Reagan (whose name each has 6 letters in them)

But!!  If we are interested in known what the author of Revelations himself meant, it makes sense to think that he is talking about something going on in his own world and time.

What do you think of this?

What do I think?  I think these discussions are fascinating and I hope I have not just offended anyone.  Smiley
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