Amen Brothers!

I've been thinking about this often. One can talk about the basic principles of Bible Study and even try to spoon-feed someone for a time. However, there comes a time where nothing can replace a person's individual effort and study on their own.

I like the Biblical description of the babe in Christ drinking the spiritual milk of HIS WORD and the maturing Christian growing up in HIS WORD, finally progressing to the meat of HIS WORD. I give thanks for the patience of many to feed HIS flock.

The student must eventually do large amounts of individual study on their own and not depend upon every sip or bite being raised to their lips by the teacher. Here is where the joy becomes more full and the Holy Spirit becomes a guide and teacher. There is a secret here to be discovered by the student. There are always willing teachers when there is an eager and willing student to put forth some effort of his or her own.

Love In Christ,
Tom

 I agree 100%. I first read the bible thru last May when God entered my life, and that is the first book I had read in over 10 yrs. I never stop reading it, as it is a "living" book and more is revealed by God thru His spirit everytime I read it.
  I read it as a completed book, from Genesis to Revelation, and it appears that the Garden of Eden might symbolically be where Jerusalem was.
   I noticed "earth" was use hundreds of times and just seemed that the bible was always centered on Jerusalem specifically and Israel generally. I used a lexicon numerous times and usually 6 different translations to help me my study. The Bible is truly the most devinely written, God inspired book in the world, which I call God's diary, and is the only book I ever read.
     Praise God the Father and Jesus Christ His Son!!!!

[book of Acts]

I also think the book of Acts is the most interesting book in the bible and actually a compilation of the whole NT. I read thru that book more than any other and of course the book of Romans is the next book I read after that.
    I think the book of Ezekiel in the OT is one of the most interesting books and I read that with Revelation as it appears to follow that book pretty closely and actually helped me interpret revelation a lot.

[I will make them one nation in the land]

Revelation is nothing but the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad, with the New Jerusalem being the Holy Spirit.
   How can anyone see revelation as "future"?
  It is a Great Holy City/harlot/woman being destroyed by a gentile army. There are 12 tribes mentioned, 10 horns on the beast of the sea and 2 horns on the beast of the earth. This equals 12 and simply represent the 2 split nations of the House of Israel.
    The 7 churches represent the 7 heads, with Thyatira representing Jezebel/Babylon, and the church of Philadelphia representing Christ's pure church,"the one who is".
    Jerusalem represented spiritual "babylon/harlot/great Holy city and is the beast of the earth that speaks as a "Lamb".
    To me, revelation is historically past and is the devine vision seen by John as the destruction of Jerusalem and the redemtion of the saints. This brought together the 2 nations under one King, Jesus, after destroying the synagogue of "satan" that were killing and persecuting the saints. Shortly after Paul died after ministering, God brought the roman army down, just as He promised and Christ promised.

Ezek 36:21 "But I had concern for My holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations where they went. 22 "Therefore, say to the house of Israel, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went.
Ezek 37:21 "And say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land;
Ezek 37:22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king for all of them; and they will no longer be two nations, and they will no longer be divided into two kingdoms.

[jewish city]

Revelation has nothing to do with the whole "world", but a Great Holy City being destroyed by a gentile army.
    Jerusalem in that age was called numerous pagan names by God in the OT, to many for me to quote here (Isaiah 1 as one example).
     It is a jewish city being destroyed, so if you want to see it as a worldwide holocaust, I guess you can.
   Babylon represented both the roman gentiles and Jerusalem, and the wounded head represented revived babylon. If revelation is future, then a "temple" will have to be built in "babylon", then babylon rebuilt.
   Sorry, but this is the way I interpret thru the spirit and why my conviction for the truth in the Words of the Bible is so strong. So I see revelation as the fulfillment of both God's and Christ's promise to destroy the synagogue of "satan" that were persecuting the saints, then later, Rome was sacked in 410ad, just as prophecied.

Ezekiel 4:1 "You also, son of man, take a clay tablet and lay it before you, and portray on it a city, Jerusalem. 2 "Lay siege against it, build a siege wall against it, and heap up a mound against it; set camps against it also, and place battering rams against it all around. 3 "Moreover take for yourself an iron plate, and set it [as] an iron wall between you and the city. Set your face against it, and it shall be besieged, and you shall lay siege against it. This [will be] a sign to the house of Israel. 4 " Lie also on your left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel(10 tribes) upon it. [According] to the number of the days that you lie on it, you shall bear their iniquity. 5 "For I have laid on you the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, 390 days; so you shall bear the iniquity of the house of Israel. 6 "And when you have completed them, lie again on your right side; then you shall bear the iniquity of the house of Judah(2 tribes) forty days. I have laid on you a day for each year. 7 "Therefore you shall set your face toward the siege of Jerusalem; your arm [shall be] uncovered, and you shall prophesy against it. 8 "And surely I will restrain you so that you cannot turn from one side to another till you have ended the days of your siege.
IF YOU ADD 40YRS TO THE ANNOTING OF the "Messiah" AT AGE 30, THAT WOULD BE 70AD(2TRIBES OF JUDAH/BEAST OUT OF THE EARTH?)
IF YOU ADD 390 YRS TO "Messiah" AT AGE 30 THAT WOULD BE 420AD (10 TRIBES OF ISRAEL/BEAST OUT OF THE SEA?).
The West Roman Empire grew steadily weaker. The Vandals, Visigoths, and other Germanic peoples invaded Spain, Gaul, and northern Africa. In 410 AD the Visigoths looted Rome. The fall of the empire is often dated 476. That year, the Germanic chieftain Odoacer forced Romulus Augustulus, the last ruler of the empire, from the throne. Germanic chiefs had already begun to carve up the empire into several kingdoms. The East Roman Empire survived as the Byzantine Empire until 1453, when the Turks captured Constantinople.

How the heck do you know whether Christ was witnessed as coming with all of His saints in the clouds. Paul was warning his followers the end was soon and their redemtion draws near. He wasn't speaking to "us". Put yourselves in their shoes back in that "age" while you read the bible. Paul was even telling his followers "not to get married".
   The bible is centered on Israel and Jerusalem all the way thru Paul's and the apostle's epistle's. I have read the bible many times thru, believe me, and all I see is the fulfillment of God's promise of pouring out His spirit on mankind and the bringing together of all peoples, nations, tongues and tribes together under one King.
     My blessed hope has already happened, as God came to me last year and I live for Christ everyday, and knowing that God and Christ indeed fulfilled their promises in the bible, makes the Word of the Bible more believable. Since I never read other books, my focus has always been just on the bible, nothing else, and what God has shown me thru it, is to help bring others to God thru Jesus Christ knowing that we will be resurerrected upon death and reign with Him forever.
   That is what I believe and I couldn't be happier.

Come together pre+post

 The Witnesses keep telling anyone who will listen that they are the Jews, and at one time they were convinced that they were the 144,000 from Revelations and once their numbers reached the 144,000 the end of the world would be upon us all. Trouble was that when their numbers actually reached the 144,000 the world didn't end. Then they actually bi-passed the number. They quickly received (new light) and now they tell anyone who will listen that within the J.W. ranks are a "special" 144,000 who will actually reside in Heaven with God at the end of days, and their "lesser" congregation will spend eternity, not in Heaven with God, but rather, in Paradise on earth.

 The truth of the matter is that the 144,000 spoken of in Revelation are actually real 100% bonafide Jews. Not make believe, or "spiritual" wannabee Jews.

Bronzesnake

100% bonafide "jews"? There are 12 tribes listed in revelation, which were hebrews. The only ones called Jews were of the 2 southern tribes of Judah. The 2 beasts represent the 2 nations of the House of Israel out of Egypt after the split of Solomon: the House of Judah(2 southern tribes) and the House of Israel (10 northern scattered tribes). The 10 horns of the beast of the sea represent the 10 northern tribes(rome), and the beast of the earth with 2 horns represent the 2 tribes of Judah(Jerusalem). This has nothing to do with "futuristic beasts".
    The true jew is the ones that believe in Jesus Christ, as the 144000(figurative number) are the ones that were sealed and saved during the 3 and half years of roman invasion in pre 70ad. The siege of Jerusalem lasted only about 6 months, but none of the ones that were believers in Christ were killed.
       This is the way I have seen it in revelation, which is the destruction of the "Harlot/woman" by the beast she was laying in bed with, Rome.

[when the east wind touches it]

Has anyone ever really studied the Book of Jonah and what it represents? When I read thru it, it appeared to be the whold NT in one book. How have others seen this book? I am trying to find any OT prophecy that told of Paul coming, and this is about as close as I can get.
    First Jonah means "dove" and is mentioned by Christ in the NT gosples. Jonah is told to preach to the gentile city of Nineveh, but he runs. This appears to be a little comical in away, but Jonah doesn't want to preach there.
  It shows him getting on a ship. I believe Jonah represents Christ on the ship, which appears to  symbolize "Jerusalem". The sailors appear to represent the "jews" that Christ came to preach to, then they are shown throwing him overboard (symbolozing crucifixion), thrown up on land after 3 days, then I think he comes to symbolize "Paul" preaching to the gentiles.
   Later he is sitting down and God provides a vine for him. I believe this vine is again jerusalem, a worm starts to eat it (apostate jews corrupting Jerusalem and the temple), then a scorching East Wind comes and whithers it. This appears to represent the destruction of Jerusalem as an east wind was a symbol of judgement and invasion.

ezekie 17:9 " Say, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Will it thrive? Will he not pull up its roots, Cut off its fruit, And leave it to wither? All of its spring leaves will wither, And no great power or many people Will be needed to pluck it up by its roots. 10 Behold, [it is] planted, Will it thrive? Will it not utterly wither when the east wind touches it? It will wither in the garden terrace where it grew." ' " 11 Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 12 "Say now to the rebellious house: 'Do you not know what these [things mean?'] Tell [them,] 'Indeed the king of Babylon went to Jerusalem and took its king and princes, and led them with him to Babylon.
Jonah 4:6 And the LORD God prepared a plant and made it come up over Jonah, that it might be shade for his head to deliver him from his misery. So Jonah was very grateful for the plant. 7 But as morning dawned the next day God prepared a worm, and it [so] damaged the plant that it withered. 8 And it happened, when the sun arose, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat on Jonah's head, so that he grew faint. Then he wished death for himself, and said, "[It is] better
     

[-third of you shall die of the pestilence]

Re Radio-active dust.

Yes America will, along with Britain be taken into captivity.  All their cities will be destroyed

Where the heck do you see this at in the bible? It was the jews in  Jerusalem in 70ad that was taken captive by the roman army and scattered thruout the world. What do you think revelation is about in the first place?
     What "holy city" resided back during that time? It is a jewish city being destroyed in revelation, not the world.

Ezekiel 4:4 " Lie also on your left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel(10 tribes) upon it. [According] to the number of the days that you lie on it, you shall bear their iniquity. 5 "For I have laid on you the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, 390 days; so you shall bear the iniquity of the house of Israel. 6 "And when you have completed them, lie again on your right side; then you shall bear the iniquity of the house of Judah(2 tribes) forty days. I have laid on you a day for each year. 7 "Therefore you shall set your face toward the siege of Jerusalem; your arm [shall be] uncovered, and you shall prophesy against it. 8 "And surely I will restrain you so that you cannot turn from one side to another till you have ended the days of your siege.
IF YOU ADD 40YRS TO THE ANNOTING OF the "Messiah" AT AGE 30, THAT WOULD BE 70AD(2TRIBES OF JUDAH/BEAST OUT OF THE EARTH?)
IF YOU ADD 390 YRS TO "Messiah" AT AGE 30 THAT WOULD BE 420AD (10 TRIBES OF ISRAEL/BEAST OUT OF THE SEA?).
The West Roman Empire grew steadily weaker. The Vandals, Visigoths, and other Germanic peoples invaded Spain, Gaul, and northern Africa. In 410 AD the Visigoths looted Rome. The fall of the empire is often dated 476. That year, the Germanic chieftain Odoacer forced Romulus Augustulus, the last ruler of the empire, from the throne. Germanic chiefs had already begun to carve up the empire into several kingdoms. The East Roman Empire survived as the Byzantine Empire until 1453, when the Turks captured Constantinople.

 Ezekiel 5:8 "therefore thus says the Lord GOD: 'Indeed I, even I, [am] against you and will execute judgments in your midst in the sight of the nations. 9 'And I will do among you what I have never done, and the like of which I will never do again, because of all your abominations. 12 'One-third of you shall die of the pestilence, and be consumed with famine in your midst; and one-third shall fall by the sword all around you; and I will scatter another third to all the winds, and I will draw out a sword after them. 13 ' Thus shall My anger be spent, and I will cause My fury to rest upon them, and I will be avenged; and they shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken [it] in My zeal, when I have spent My fury upon them.

K, the concept in question is the time being shortened so that the elect would survive:

Mark 13:20
If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them.

Thus, not every Christian in the tribulation period will be martyred. Ofcourse many will be:

Revelation 6:9-11
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.


Obiviously martyrdom is a large part of the persecution of the saints.

According to Josephus, the actually siege was only about 6 months, and Titus actually said it was only with the help of GOd that he took Jerusalem as quick as he did, so the days were actually cut short.
   I really don't see anything future in revelation, as I have stated the beast from the sea was given power by God to attack the beast from the earth, Jerusalem. 12 tribes are mentioned, and there were 2 nations: 10 tribes of the House of Israle (scattered among the gentiles) and the House of Judah ( 2 southern tribes of the House of Judah).
   I see revelation as simply the historical record of Christ as the 2 witnesses, and the 2 beasts represented both houses of Israel, with the "Harlot" beast of the earth being destroyed by the gentile army of the beast of the sea.
    This appears to be more biblical than some futuristic "holocaust" of the world in the future. It is the destruction of a "holy city" by a gentile army. This is what is represented by the "fullness of the gentiles". This took out the synagogue of "satan" that Christ and Paul were preaching against. I just can't see this any other way.

[breath of life from God entered them]

Revelation is not in chronological order, but a devinely God inspired jigsaw puzzle.
  The 7th angel sounds his trumpet in victory of the 2 witnesses dying and ascending into heaven. I think this symbololises the death of Christ, the 2 bodies representing law/prophet, spiritual Moses/Elijah of which Christ was both(read zechariah 4 and 6). The 7th angel isn't necessarily the last trump and there are 6 before this one setting up for the wraths and plagues to come.
   In chapt 5 it shows a "a Lamb that had been slain". This has to be past as that is how Christ would have appeared after His resurrection.

reve 11:11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.   12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them...15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become [the kingdoms] of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!".

 reve 5:6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

[O peoples, nations, and languages]

rev 13:15 And It was Given to him to Give Breath to the Image of the BEAST 16 And HE Causes all, the Small and the Great, and the Rich and the Poor, and the Free Men and the Slaves, to be Given a Mark on their Right Hand Or on their Forehead, 17 and that No One will be able to Buy or to Sell, Except the One who has the Mark, either the Name of the BEAST OR the Number of HIS NAME. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and His Number is Six Hundred and Sixty-Six.(600/60(3score)/6)

666 simply represents spiritual "babylon" and is what the religious rulers and priests were practicing after they came back from exile from babylon. God and Christ both condemned them as being like Sodom and Gomorrah.

IMAGE:   1504 eikon i-kone' from 1503; a likeness, i.e. (literally) statue, profile, or (figuratively) representation, resemblance:--image 1503 eiko i'-ko apparently a primary verb (perhaps akin to 1502 through the idea of faintness as a copy); to resemble:--be like.
mark: 5480 charagma khar'-ag-mah from the same as 5482; a scratch or etching, i.e. stamp (as a badge of servitude), or scupltured figure (statue):--graven, mark. 5482 charax khar'-ax from charasso (to sharpen to a point; akin to 1125 through the idea of scratching); a stake, i.e. (by implication) a palisade or rampart (military mound for circumvallation in a siege):--trench(which would cause a famine because No One could get food?).ANOTHER WORDS, "MARKED" FOR DESTRUCTION.

Daniel 3:1 Nebuchadnezzar the king(of Babylon) made an image of gold(600?), whose height was threescore cubits(60), and the breadth there of 6 cubits: he set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon. 4 Then the herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages, 5 that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of music, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up; 6 and whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace 28 Nebuchadnezzar spake and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants (from the furnace) that trusted in Him, and have changed the king's word, and have yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.
Isaiah 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, You rulers of Sodom; Give ear to the law of our God, You people of Gomorrah:   11 "To what purpose [is] the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?" Says the LORD. "I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams And the fat of fed cattle. I do not delight in the blood of bulls, Or of lambs or goats.  

[is not in chronological order]

I have worked and studied on revelation for about a month and after reading the bible for almost 1500 hrs since last May(no other books), I would like to present what I have as I cannot even put up a tenth of what I have interpreted, but this is a small portion.
   First, it shows "John" on the island of Patmos("my killing"). We do not know which John, or when he was there, as that is irrelevant to the vision he is witnessing while in the spirit on the "Lord's day".  This could be figurative and he could have been there anytime in the spirit, as in the OT, prophets were taking to places to witness visions to be shown by God after being put in the spirit. Revelation is not in chronological order and is like a giant devine jigsaw puzzle, with the same OT jewish symbology and figuratism. I believe revelation is the destruction of Jerusalem, and the 2 beast represent the 2 nations of the House of Israel: Judah and Israel.
  I would like to have others give me their opinions on this.

 These are 7 random churches with 2 of them having meanings to the words: Thyatira("Odor of Affliction) and Philadelphia("Brotherly Love"). the church of Thyatira represented Jezebel, 1 "who is to come"  and this church is doomed for destruction. Philadelphia represented the "pure" church of Christ and the saints and the 1 "who is". I believe these represent the 7 heads of the beast of the sea

In chapt 7 there are 12 Tribes mentioned.  They are the original 12 tribes of the whole House of Israel from Egypt and I believe represent the 2 kingdoms/2 beasts.
        Revelation 13:1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea(multitude of people, nations). And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads(7 hills also 10 kings) and ten horns(10 Northern Tribes of the House of Israel scattered with the genitles/with no "heavenly kingdom" as yet), and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.
       Reve 13:11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth(Israel/ Jerusalem), and he had two horns(2 southern tribes of the House of Judah) like a lamb and spoke like a dragon.
   The beast of the sea(rome) is given authority by God to attack the beast of the earth(Israel/Jerusalem) for 42 months during 67 and 70ad.