Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. (John 14:1-3)                   

What do you think of when you hear or read this passage of scripture?      

Of all the words that have ever been spoken, none reach to the heart with more hope and joy then the words of our Lord Jesus. His words transcend time and place and reach to any heart that will open to His soothing grace.         

Often times we read a verse or two of scripture by themselves because of the comfort they impart and sometimes miss the greater beauty of the same verses when taken together in their context.

                  
The above is an often quoted and beautiful passage. Usually the first few verses of John 14 are recited at funerals for their comfort, or in messages that look to tomorrow as a time of fulfillment.
                        
I would like to pause for a moment and consider this passage in the beauty of its context.                            
This is from a conversation that begins in John 13:12.
It is the night of the Last Supper. It is the night before Jesus is crucified. Jesus has washed the feet of the disciples. He tells them that one of them will betray Him. After Judas leaves Jesus tells them that where He is going they cannot follow.
                   
At this point we could say He is going to heaven, but let’s keep it in the context of the night it is spoken and see it as a bit more immediate than that.         

Where is He going?   
                           
The cross.
                   
He then tells them to love one another.
               
Peter asks, “Lord, where are you going?”   

Jesus tells him that he can’t follow Him now, but that he shall follow Him afterward. Here again let’s stay with the immediacy of the moment and as we realize that Jesus is speaking of the cross, let’s remember that church history tells us that Peter was also crucified…upside-down.   

Not at this time.                

Afterward.
            
Peter says, “Lord, why can I not follow you now? I will lay down my life for your sake.”

What happens next in the text is an unfortunate placement of a chapter break from the translators, following the last verse in John 13.          

At the end of chapter 13 Jesus is having an intense and heartrending conversation with Peter. From the last verse of chapter 13 into chapter 14 you will notice there is no change of speaker; no change of conversation.          
It is still but hours from the cruel death of the cross, and Jesus is still speaking to Peter.                            
Let’s read it as one conversation, which it is, without a chapter break, beginning with the last verse of chapter 13… Speaking to Peter:         

Jesus answered him, “Will you lay down your life for My sake? Most assuredly, I say to you, the rooster shall not crow until you have denied Me three times. Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.”
      
The conversation is with Peter. Jesus tells Peter, who loves Him, that he will deny Him and then immediately Jesus, who is about to be betrayed and crucified, comforts Peter! After telling him that he will deny Him he says don’t let your heart be troubled! The same way you believe in God believe in Me! Jesus equates Himself with Deity (He is God) and says in His father’s House are many mansions (abodes, dwellings)! (“..do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?” 1Corinthians 3:16)
            
He tells Peter, as He has been telling them throughout the night, that He is going, and that he is going to prepare a place for him. Where? The cross!          

Jesus prepared a place for us at the cross! His sacrifice and faith in His sacrifice have made a place for us in the Kingdom.                 
He then tells Peter that once that place is prepared He would come and receive him unto Himself.          

On the day of Pentecost the Spirit of God, the Holy Ghost, which is the Spirit of Jesus (Ephesians 4:4-5) filled 120 in the upper room and the Church was born. He has been receiving souls unto Himself since that day!

Notice the wording; “that where I am” He says, “you may be also”.   

Jesus didn’t say where I am going to be you’re going to be there too, He said where I am there you may be also.

Where was He?    

He was in a state of perfect union and sonship with the Father. This is the place that He prepared for us through His sacrifice at Calvary!  Now we can call God, Father!  

Rather than a statement about our future destiny after this life, Jesus is giving a comforting proclamation of our ever-present condition in Him because of what He has done for us.                 
Eternal life begins when we place our faith in Christ and receive His Spirit! His Life!                                
This eternal life we receive will never end but will carry us through eternity in Him!

Gabriel - the Psalmistsinger

Petra ROCKS again!

The new album, Jekyl and Hyde, is the one from Petra that many of us who have been long time listeners knew was in there some where! They've always been excellent but this one is makes you want to turn it up to 11!

Biblically based -as always- lyrics and screaming guitars! Alright!

How about New Grass Revival? They don't record as a group anymore but Bela Fleck is astounding, and John Cowan has one of the best voices in any type of music!

Showing my age here, but....PETRA!

I play in a Louisville Ky. based Christian band called ONE ACCORD.

We do several songs that most people know, but all of the samples on our website are original material that the Lord has given.

If you check us out I hope you enjoy it.

Our web address is :

http://www.geocities.com/oneaccordky/

Part 2 (the conclusion)

Is there a "judgment side" to God?

All judgment for sin was placed upon Jesus and sin was condemned in the flesh! (Romans 8:3)

Certainly God judges between good and evil as He also teaches us to do, and yet we as children of God are not to be condemning, for ".. God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved."  John 3:17.                        

Condemnation comes when men and women reject Jesus and, by disbelief in what He accomplished for us at the cross, seek to achieve salvation by their own works. So yes, there is a "judgment side" to God, but those with the love of God shone abroad in their hearts by the Holy Ghost are not appointed to wrath. ( 1Thes. 5:9 )   

"For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth" (disciplines) "every son whom He receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? "  Hebrews 12:6-7.

So we see that even the judgments of God are based on His love!                                              

"Like as a Father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear Him. For He knoweth our frame; He knows we are dust." Psalm 103:13-14.  

As a Father loves his children so the Lord loves us and has filled us with His love. And love fulfills the law. (Romans13:10)   

We love to say that Jesus didn't destroy the law but fulfilled it! This gives us an excuse to hold on to our thoughts of earning  (this is unbelief in what Jesus accomplished for us) the love and pleasure of God. And it is true that Jesus didn't destroy, but fulfilled the law - yet, what does it mean for the law to be fulfilled?

The Bible is composed of two testaments or "contracts". The "Old Contract" and the "New Contract".                                              

The "Old" is called old for a reason. The Apostle Paul said in that God promised a "New" that the first was decaying (obsolete) and vanishing away. (Hebrews 8:13) .

This means that it is no longer binding.

If an electrician and a painter are contracted to work on the same house the provisions of their contracts bind them until the house is complete. Neither person has anything to do with the others contract and as each one's task is complete, when the house is painted and the wiring connected, each is free to move on to other contracts with different provisions - they being no longer bound by contracts that have been fulfilled.

The "Old Contract" (or the law) that God gave to Moses was good and Holy, yet it did not impart righteousness. Paul said that it was a ministry of death (II Corinthians 3: 7) , and again that ".. as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them" "And the law is not of faith: but, the man that doeth them shall live by them." Galatians 3:11&13.

God made this Old contract with the nation of Israel, and no one else, before the coming of Christ.

Isn't it interesting how concerned so many of us are with a law that never applied to us? (If I were the electrician why should I be concerned with the painter's contract?)                                                                    

The "New Contract" was promised 430 years before Moses received the "Old" (Genesis 17:2-7: Galatians 3:17) , so the "Old" was given with the knowledge that there would be a "New"; one that is written on hearts and minds. (Jeremiah 31:31-34: Hebrews 8:8-13.)

What the Old covenant was in the shadow of outward works the New covenant is in reality in the hearts of believers; -The righteousness of God! (Romans 3:28 - 31: II Corinthians 5:17- 21)               

No longer is there a standing "contract" of God working as an outside motivation for servants of God to perform works of righteousness. Now those who are born of the Spirit are moved inwardly by their nature to perform and be what they are naturally, as children who have inherited the character and characteristics of their Father. (Ephesians 4:22 - 5:10).    

First, however, Someone had to fulfill the old contract. -  Jesus!                             

Tempted in all points as we yet without sin! (Hebrews 4:14-15) The Lamb of God found worthy! (Revelation 5: 4-14) The mediator of a better covenant! A covenant of the heart! (Hebrews 8: 6-13; 9:15)   

No, the law was not destroyed, but it was fulfilled and is no longer binding.       

It is finished. (John 19:30)  

Gabriel the Psalmistsinger                    

Part 1.   

Lately I have wondered at the grace of God that saves us and influences our lives, and how this message of love at times divides. (Matthew 10:34-39)                     
Often we give great lip service to Grace while seeming afraid to let it sink into our hearts.            

We read that we have been saved by grace through faith (Eph.2: 8-9) and we remain unwilling to trust completely in whom and what saved us.            

To Him Who said My yoke is easy and My burden light (Matthew 11:28-30) , and of Whom it is said to cast all our cares on Him for He cares for us (I Peter 5:7) , we say 'Not all Lord. Let me keep a portion'.            

So many times when we speak of grace we qualify it with an untrusting "but". "Yes, we are saved by grace but..", or "Yes, God is love but.."             

What are we so afraid of? Are we afraid that in teaching grace by faith in Jesus and nothing else that some, particularly new, believers will use this as a license to sin? Cannot those who are mature, by example, help the weak along being confident that God will complete what He has started? (Romans 15:1-2) (Phil.1: 6)                  

Consider for a moment you who are born of the Spirit, living according to the Nature of God that has been birthed in you; do you really have a desire, being dead to sin to live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2) Or have we by habit and tradition found it easier to walk by sight and not by faith?    

Instead of the narrow way of faith we choose the broad way of righteousness by our own works, unwittingly substituting good deeds and our own efforts for grace and the love of God.

The Gospel is a message of truth and beauty. How is it that we are so easily swayed from this message of grace?          

We sing songs and speak of Jesus as being all that we need and within a matter of sentences, and the way we live our lives, we take it back.

We say that we believe God made Him Who knew no sin to become sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Him, and that we trust the Lord completely! All the while we worry what our responsibility and work is - as if the gift of God could be earned. Jesus said that "this is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent"(John 6:29)      

Jesus. Period.                           

Sometimes, somehow, we muddle that truth with some sort of initial salvation that the scriptures never speak of and dilute the message of grace, as though now some sort of works were necessary to remain saved. If anything the Apostle Paul told the Galatian church to stay with what they had initially received. "This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit are ye now made perfect by the flesh? "Galatians 3:2-3.                      

Instead of Jesus came that we might have life, and more abundantly, what is often preached is Jesus died to make a way for us to keep the Old covenant law if we'll try really hard and then, maybe, we might be worthy of eternal life. Instead of a son and joint heir with Christ in our own house we become servants earning our keep in someone else's house. Fearing the hard Master of the house we forget whom God has birthed us to be (His people) and that perfect love casts out fear.

Often we seek for a balance between law and grace when no such balance exists. The scripture doesn't say the law came through Moses and grace and truth came by Jesus Christ, it says but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ (John 1:17) , signifying a completely different covenant. Is the Moon balanced by the Sun or is it totally out shone?

Sometimes we speak as though to say that God is love (which the scriptures teach) and that all we really need to do is trust Jesus (which the scriptures teach) is somehow flawed because we become so concerned with the wrath and the "judgment side" of God. Yet, have you noticed that while the scriptures teach that God is a God of justice, they do not teach, "God is judgment"? They do teach "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love " I John 4:8.  

The very nature, the very fabric of God is love! This is why the scriptures also teach that.."mercy rejoiceth against"(or triumphs over)"judgment." James 2:13.   

I want to correct something I mis-typed in my previous post.

I typed, "The context of Revelation 2 is to specific churches (as you can see ) but the text does not mention individual churches." It should have read ,"the text does not mention individuals".  Sorry.... it was a late night.

Allinall - Good post! You said it much better than I.

John the Baptist - I do not want to waste my time either, so perhaps it was time that I was "lovingly blunt".

I have no desire to get into one of your "circular" arguments in which you asked all the questions and refuse to respond coherently to any put forth to you. I asked the same sincere questions several times in the 'subverters of souls' thread under the "You Name It" tab without ever receiving a direct response.  Whether I had agreed or not a coherent, scriptural response would have at least let me understand what you were saying.

I did check out the "Seventh Day Adventist" (or Adventist like) link that you posted in reply, but quite honestly I don't consider going to your message board to get in another circular discussion, to be the same thing as a direct response from you (huh?).

And I preferred not to e-mail you directly. As the conversation and the questions had been public it seemed fitting , and possibly edifying to others (that is why we post after all ), to have the responses in the same fashion.

You seem like a nice guy, and I do not question your sincerity, so let me post those same questions here, yet another time.

1. Scripturally, how do you consider the two covenants to instead be one combined covenant?

2. If you believe that the Old Covenant was not abolished how do you view 2 Corinthians chapter 3, and Hebrews chapter 8 ?

The specific verses are:

"But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?" 2 Corinthians 3: 7-8.

"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. " Hebrews 8:7

"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." Hebrew 8:13.

Unless you are going to respond directly, scripturally, and coherently, then please.....don't waste my time.


In His Good And Everlasting Grace....

Bronzesnake  - "We are the church. Jesus wasn't talking to buildings."

No, Jesus wasn't talking to buildings, nor was he speaking to individuals.

We are part of a collective body made up of many parts, yet none of us by ourselves is that body anymore than my toe is is the totality of who I am. Together we are the Church, the called out ones. Individually we are sons of God.

The context of Revelation 2 is to specific churches (as you can see ) but the text does not mention individual churches.

If my church were to lose it's "candlestick" and stop being effective for God I would not cease to be His.  By the leading of His Spirit I would be led to another place to be of service to my Father, my King.

Nothing can snatch me from His Hand.
The context of Revelation will not contradict this Truth.

In His grace...

For consideration I would like to respectfully point out that the verses from Revelation are to churches, or some believe to church ages, but they are not written to individual believers.

In His Grace...

 John 5:24   "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

 John 11:25-26  "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

Romans 10:9  "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

 

Early57,

Yes, essentially that is what I am saying.  I'm glad if it has helped.

Specifically the scripture in Hebrews about there no longer remaining a sacrifice for sin is showing the Hebrews the futility of going back to animal sacrifices when the only sacrifice that is now acceptable to God has been made by His Son. There is no other sacrifice for sin that can be made.

If someone continues in sinful actions they have not accepted the Savior as you said, or they do not understand God's grace.  

Many people have a "works" oriented understanding which is always doomed to failure (the arm of flesh will always fail), rather than a faith relationship that is totally dependent upon God.

He loves us not because of what we do, but because of who we are in Him: His children.

In turn as this love works in our lives it causes us to walk accordingly and naturally; not out of our own efforts trying to maintain a salvation that we did not purchase, but from hearts born of His Grace.

We love Him because He first loved us.

Remain blessed,

In His Grace....

It was said of Paul (as he quoted it in Romans) that since he was preaching that Faith apart from the works of the law was sufficient for salvation, then why not sin that grace may abound?  

As in Paul's day I think that is still the fear that some have in our day at the proclaiming of God's grace.

At issue, I think, is that there may be be a misconception about SIN - the nature that Jesus died for, and sins - actions that are wrong.

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." - 2 Corinthians 5:19-21

Sins, wrongful or unlawful deeds, are the symptoms while SIN is the disease from which the symptoms spring.

For example, it's not that Jesus died for the individual act of stealing, but He died to take away the root problem that would cause someone to want to steal in the first place.

He has crucified our "old man" and replaced it with His Nature.

"I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."- Galatians 2:20

Notice what Paul says in Ephesians 4:28:

"Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth."  

Not "let him who stole know that he is lost and undone", but let him who stole quit it because he has put off the old man- He is born again of better stuff! To steal now would be to live against his nature. A man isn’t a thief because he steals; a man steals because he is a thief.

This why Peter says in 2 Peter 2:21:

"For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.  But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."  

Someone who would seek to turn back is either living against their nature (and miserable), or never had their nature changed to begin with– the “dog” returns to its vomit.

I can be comfortable stealing if I’m a thief and it is in my nature, but if I have passed from death unto LIFE, I can never again be the same. I would have been better off keeping the “old man” than being a new one who is trying to live like an old one.

Now if Jesus died for sin then sin is no longer the issue, rather it is BELIEF on Jesus.

People are not condemned because of sin, but because they have not believed on Him.

“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”  John 3:18

When we come to the Lord our sins are forgiven because of the faith that is placed in Christ.

Eternal Security?

There is no other kind.

In His Grace....

[2. Scripturally, how do you consider the two covenants to instead be one combined covenant?3. If you believe that the Old Covenant was not abolished how do you view 2 Corinthians chapter 3, and Hebrews chapter 8 ?]

I'm back..and patiently waiting.

"But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing." James 1:4

Length of the answer is unimportant as long as the answer is direct. Time is only wasted when the answers are otherwise.

No need to go through a long "circling of the wagons". "The questions are direct, it 's fine with me if the answers are the same.

The questions, again, are:

2. Scripturally, how do you consider the two covenants to instead be one combined covenant?

3. If you believe that the Old Covenant was not abolished how do you view 2 Corinthians chapter 3, and Hebrews chapter 8 ?

The specific verses are:

"But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?" 2 Corinthians 3: 7-8.

"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. " Hebrews 8:7

"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." Hebrew 8:13.

Thanks,

In His Grace...

Bro. John,

Nah..not running off, but not at home this weekend so my posting may be a bit sporadic this weekend (if at all).

I've read through each of your posts, and I guess I'm missing it...well..I think I see how you may be answering the first one (even though I disagree I understand what you're saying) , but I don't see the answer to the last two..so let me just pose those last two again...

2. Scripturally, how do you consider the two covenants to instead be one combined covenant?

3. If you believe that the Old Covenant was not abolished how do you view 2 Corinthians chapter 3, and Hebrews chapter 8 ?

The specific verses are:

"But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?" 2 Corinthians 3: 7-8.

"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. " Hebrews 8:7

"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." Hebrew 8:13.

Your direct answer to both is appreciated.

Thanks,

In His Grace..