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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
286776 Posts in 27568 Topics by 3790 Members
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31  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:Homosexual marriages on: March 06, 2004, 02:30:02 AM
The Chink in the Armor......I was thinking the last few days that the gays have really shot themselves in the foot. What do I mean? There is all this talk now about the kids in school (even grammar school, I read) "exploring" their sexuality, trying it out both ways, to see if maybe they "are" gay...

So right there goes the homosexuals whole arguement. They have portrayed their sexual preference as something they were born with and tried to compare it to race - but this whole thing with the youth clearly ruins their whole premise. When was the last time you heard of an African American trying out his race to see if he was one? Or a caucasian the same? If you're born a certain way, you can't "try it out" to see for certain. It isn't something that's "discovered" Duh.
32  Fellowship / What are you doing? / Re:High Noon on: March 06, 2004, 02:23:36 AM
Hi Symphony,

I wouldn't use housepaint for your t shirts - it would probably flake off and clog the washer. Get acrylic craft paint at Walmart and then get a fabric medium to mix with the paint to use on fabrics. Sometimes WM has the medium but if not a bigger craft store (Michael's ? ) would - and they would know what you're talking about. The WM here didn't know what it was but another one had it.

I think I will modify my shirt slightly.....something like, "Hey! Heads up! and then in bigger letters, Homosexuality is a Sin...

sometimes it's confusing, because when you are angry over sin in the land, blatant issues like these, it's easy to feel maybe you are being self righteous. But it's hard to passionate about the issue without some anger creeping in - I don't think the anger is self righteousness, tho. It could be,  if we fail to remember we are no better.

Also, homosexuals think christians are self righteous no matter what they say. Anything short of an endorsement is seen by them as self righteous, so I'm not going to let the term get to me.

Maybe a website address on the shirt in littler letters linking to a web site about people who are no longer gay? Or, Homosexuality is a Sin and then in smaller letters, Don't go to hell!
33  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:Homosexual marriages on: March 05, 2004, 11:49:36 PM
I hate to belabour the point of t shirts, but after reading in various threads, I'm back on it. #1 We aren't going to convince the public that they are wrong. #2 We are to witness in public and preach the gospel (not necessarily singling out any particular sin) It is the foolishness of preaching that God uses (not a movie as a replacement, I might add). So we should be preaching (if you're called to that)

but just because they won't change because we tell them something is wrong doesn't mean we aren't supposed to keep telling them. I for one would just as soon hibernate in my house and read last days things and not go out into the fray. But when I do that, the Lord is unhappy with me. I don't really want to be out there in the misery, especially speaking. But I really believe it is wrong to be silent - about this or what ever other sins they are trying to cram down our throats. Homosexuality is yesterday's abortion. Issue wise. When abortion was first legalized, I think there were a lot more speaking out. We have to confront the issues, but I think it is more along the lines of John the Baptist or Jeremiah. They spoke out against sin. But John the Baptist also warned of the One Who is to come. It isn't enough for us to speak out against the issues - we have to have a reason, and that is to warn them of Who is to come.

So my point was twofold. We are supposed to preach and to warn. And also, even though we will never successfully squelch homosexuality, I think we need to raise up standared against it - and what better way to let them know how you feel than a t shirt? (or a hat, or a bumper sticker or...)
34  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:Terrible Question. on: March 05, 2004, 11:16:57 PM
Another thought as I'm reading thru this thread. You can get an umbrella policy on your car insur (Amer Fam, maybe others as well) for only $100 a year or a little more - it's good for a million dollars and protects against being sued for slander among other things....or something like that. I'm thinking about it. For writing, there is some kind of authors insurance you can get. Or publishers...

It seems a little absurd to me that I am even worrying about this at all, but glad I'm not the only one. It boils down to trying to figure out how to be a witness for Christ without giving it all up ( a worry I'm not defending in myself , but isn't hat the gist of it?). At least in my life. Somehow, trying to protect it all and hold it together. I don't think it's wrong to minimize risk - that's just smart, how many can you win in jail. But I really think there will come a time (soon) when it is simply unlawful to speak out about anything Christian.

Then what? I have asked myself. What are we supposed to do then? Keep speaking, and go to jail, which might be the right thing to do....or, "go into your closet until the indignation in past" or something like that. I don't have the exact scripture handy.....here it is, Is 26:20 ..which?? I don't know.
35  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:Terrible Question. on: March 05, 2004, 10:59:58 PM
I don't know about them openly holding hands in a store or anything - here, it's not uncommon to see. I did go to a street fair near a university and two men were standing on the sidewalk french kissing very ferociously. Then they laughed and looked around. I took my finger and opened my mouth and made the in and out motion, like "gag me". It was all I could think of at the time.
36  Fellowship / What are you doing? / Re:High Noon on: March 05, 2004, 10:46:19 PM
I tried to look up that one article on the site in England, but it wouldn't load. I think it was under Persecution under Articles. I emailed the guy. Another good article was about gays or thought police, can't remember which. Here is the link http://www.lightforthelastdays.co.uk/docs/europe/churches.html

37  Fellowship / What are you doing? / Re:High Noon on: March 05, 2004, 10:23:59 PM
Well, I just found this thread. I haven't been to the forum for awhile...you know how it goes. I've also been reading another forum, but I think I like the topics here better....

Symphony, it sounds like you're "under it" where you are. Now I understand why you were interested in t shirts -as a way to do something.

You could move to a bigger city...it's easier to be anonymous.

I understand your trepidations. I go thru the same thing. I can be bold one day and not be bold again for a long time. Fear creeps in. Or, some well-meaning Christian will be disapproving and give the impression we aren't to reprove sin and it sends me right back to the drawing board. Even the t shirts, (well, the 1) , I often have second thoughts. Yet, certain things "burn" within and are never silenced, and I think it is a constant angst. I keep asking what is it, Lord, because I never really get away from it. And today I think it came to me that I am not being obedient, and that is why I am wrestling. I keep being on the fence about everything.

So, I have been studying how Paul witnessed to the Gentiles, and I'm not done yet, but I figure he is a good model to follow. Also, John the Baptist and Jesus both were full of the Spirit, and my study bible says the Holy Spirit reproves the world of sin, righteousness and judgement.

I hear you when you wonder legally what you can do. I often wonder when the "hate speech" laws will be on the books. Have you ever looked up Ray Comfort? He is from New Zealand and has been here about 10 years or so. He did street preaching there and does it here. He goes to a mall or out side the courthouse or where ever, and he hasn't been arrested. He passes out tracts and leaves them everywhere. He even talks about going into the courthouse and talking to the people waiting for trial in the lobby. He has a couple of videos that show him preaching all over. You may have a different preaching style, but it is always good to see someone else involved. It's encouraging. The web site is livingwaters.com  

There was also another website I had found that you'd have to do a search on now, but search out Gerald Sutek. He does public preaching, and has a couple of books - one I have called "Street Preachers Manual". It's all about how not to get arrested. I read it awhile back but chickened out since then. I think he has pictures on a web site somewhere of them in public with signs.

One last reference, there's a site called Light for the Last Days - I'll have to look up the reference and post it - but this guy lives in London I think (it's very heathen there now) and he was out in the public square passing out tracts and the Lord instructed him to begin speaking out His name....I'll send the link.

My friend told me there are some street preachers around here somewhere that stand on a corner with a megaphone.....I need to find what church they go to...
38  Fellowship / What are you doing? / Re:Shirts on: February 26, 2004, 11:24:29 AM
2) T shirts. What else is there to do? It does no good for Christians to try to change things legally - I mean, go ahead and try, but we're losing. (not eternally, just now) They will never overturn abortion, and I think it's just a matter of time before gay marriage is the norm in this country. Protest all you want to, it won't do any good.

so, why not be a beacon for truth and a billboard? just state the facts - on your clothing. the world wont' accept it anyway, but it is a stand. And for some reason, taking a stand really matters to me.

And, there is preaching. More of us should be standing on street corners or somewhere (not where no one can hear you with 6 lanes of traffic rushing by) - more of us should be on street corners or sidewalks preaching the gospel. (it's the foolishness of preaching, remember, not the movies or "lifestyle" evangelism) I'm not there yet, because I have fear, but the Lord keeps pulling me in that direction. Some libraries (at least here) have "free speech zones" outside the door. (altho I thought speech was still free everywhere here!)
39  Fellowship / What are you doing? / Re:Shirts on: February 26, 2004, 11:18:48 AM
1) The pagan vet: she breezed into the exam room and "something" came with her - I can't explain it, but I felt the way I always do when in the presence of darkness, and that's what it felt like.

Her pentagram was huge, and like, in your face. I was feeling very uncomfortable as she began her examination. I felt like it was a "stance" issue - it was being shoved in my face - I could "bow" to it, or not. I asked her about her "gram" and she said, oh, it's paganism, it means blah blah blah. I said, I know full well what it means, it's a symbol of darkness. She got very nasty at that point and started arguing with me.
40  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:First "Gay" marriage in North America on: February 23, 2004, 11:46:30 AM
I had emailed Guv Arnold a few days ago and said it's about TIME you spoke up - it was after they announced he was making a statement. I think we should all email him and now and say, what's the matter, you have zero power in your own state??
41  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:Homosexual marriages on: February 23, 2004, 11:31:19 AM
Amen Reba. I've worked a lot with homosexuals also - one of them was in upper management at our company also. Several were, actually. And also a lot of the staff. Come to think of it, the Jehovah's Witnesses were busy leaving the Watchtower lying around, the cross dresser was bringing in his photo album and carrying a purse, the satanists would bring in their bible, etc etc.

At work I left it alone - I don't think work is the place for confrontation or passing out tracts (unless you leave them anonymously in the restroom, or payphone hehe) (or unless you're financially self sufficient! ;-) - but more for a witness in your life. I wouldn't lie about how I believed, but I didn't initiate the conversations. I just wore a small cross pin that says "paid in full" or "Jesus is Coming" pin, off to the side, so they wouldn't confuse it with the popular neck crosses EVERYONE wears. They know already where you're coming from, and they basically steer clear. I think befriending them at work is the best course. Showing kindness, etc. That seems to work the best with everyone at work...
I used to take the bus with one gay guy who really was a neat guy otherwise, and he would never even take a tract. He'd just laugh and wouldn't pick it up.

I will say this about work though, (I'm no longer there, but not because of any persecution, I quit to do something else)....anyway, I have spoken up at work when the occasion was right. And I have given out tracts to different individuals only when it became clear it was really hard to get fired there.  If other people bring up some subject related to Christianity or issues, they all look at you in a challenging fashion sometimes you have to speak up. I've done that.
42  Fellowship / What are you doing? / Re:Shirts on: February 23, 2004, 11:18:11 AM
Yes, I want to do a Paganism is Hell and wear it and see the response...should be interesting. I had originally gotten the thought as "Paganists go to hell" which is true because they aren't Christian.....but then Paganism is hell came to me, because it means the same thing but can be taken two ways.....

I think paganism is really satanism in disguise - it follows the same tenants of satanism, with the air, earth, fire and water - they just don't tell you who the spirit part is, they leave that "open". I went to a new vet with my cat and in walks this woman with a huge pentagram around her neck. I thought she was a tech but she was the VET. I had to (politely) tell her to stop examining my cat mid-exam, and then she practically got into a shouting match with me over her pentagram. Well, I wasn't shouting, but she was bordering on it. Wow.
43  Fellowship / What are you doing? / Re:Shirts on: February 23, 2004, 12:40:11 AM
"Will we have the courage to say what needs to be said? "
 
I really believe that's the key. It seems like there's two approaches - there's the preaching approach, whether on shirt or with voice (but when you wear a shirt, you feel bolder to witness, I've noticed. One guy said he liked my shirt and we got to talking - he wasn't a Christian and I was able to swing right into all sins are the same and willl keep us from heaven and why we need Jesus, and he took a tract as well ) - and then there's the one on one type of thing, where of course you aren't shoving a sign in their face, you are being loving and reasoning with just them about sin.

I'm in the process of reading how Paul did it, what he said (in terms of public preaching), because he was sent to the gentiles. I want to see the elements of what he said and convert it to modern day issues.
44  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:Homosexual marriages on: February 23, 2004, 12:29:26 AM
"Christian love is not always giving someone a hug and telling "them they are doing fine. Christian love is also not ignoring something that is eternally destructive.

There is confusion and condemnation in what some Christians do by the world, especially when a Christian takes a stand on what is wrong and tells the blunt truth. I used the term "World" on purpose. The devil does not like it when Christians call sin "SIN". Those who are living in darkness may not like it either, but that should not be the concern of a Christian. In other words, Christian love must be tough love in many cases."

Amen. It's hard to speak the truth in love. Know that you are swimming upstream, and there is a lot of opposition from, I hate to say it, other Christians. I would differentiate it though, from that Fred Phelps guy who has horrid signs saying "God hates fags" etc - that I totally disagree with, and can't see where there is any love in that. I think the right attitude to take is to picture them, or anyone else, for that matter, in some other sitution - like them sitting in the street and seeing a runaway bus headed right for them - what would we do to convince them they were in trouble? We would push them out of the way if we could, but what if we couldn't? Maybe we are in a wheelchair or something - THEN what would we do? We'd have to talk fast, it has to be their choice - and explain the seriousness of the situaton....(rather than trying to attract them off the road) what if the person got mad and said, there's nothing wrong with sitting in the middle of the street, and that's where I like to be.....who are you to judge me and tell me I'm going to die?? What, do you think you're better than me? I think the problem might be partly that we don't really believe the wages of sin is death - if we did, wouldn't we speak up a little more? I'm talking to myself as well here.....
45  Fellowship / What are you doing? / Re:Shirts on: February 22, 2004, 10:17:44 PM
I dont think the gays will string you up, unless you were at a rally or something - I haven't been at one yet. I think the reason they don't try to string you up is because they aren't accustomed to people taking a stand just out in public - it's usually at a parade or outside a courthouse.  

Psalm 119, some really good ideas. Afterall, the 10 Commandments were short too.

Symphony wrote "If the LOrd blesses you with fruit, maybe that fruit wil include people joining you from the very ones you're evangelizing??  So I don't think it's has to necessarily jeapordize your original "labor of love", if you have a careful understanding of costs, whether or not you want there to be any "margin"(profit) with which to pay your own personal expenses, or whether you want any income to only cover costs of just the project  itself--OR, if maybe you want to just limit it to being paid for out of income you receive from unrelated employment or other sources, like you're doing now. "

Yes, and I'm not trying to give the impression that I'm attempting to be a purist over it. There's nothing wrong with a business. I think where I was coming from is this: before, when I had in my mind to start a business, t shirts and all, that was where my head was at, and then thinking what would sell. If you approach it the other way, as in, forget the monetary aspect, what needs to be said, what do I need to say? then it's that first. What needs to be said needs to come before what would sell - and once you're saying what needs to be said, you can always sell a t shirt about it. Whereas if you decide what will sell, and it doesn't, then you're changing what you say to accommodate what will sell. If you say what needs to be said, and then sell it, if it doesn't sell, so what? You haven't compromised anything. Make sense?? I only mentioned some of the slogans because I don't want to "hog" ideas. Like make everyone wait until I have a line of t shirts to share the message or slogan. It needs to be said now, not when I get it together. I'm sure I will wind up doing some of the slogans, but in the meantime, magic markers (the kind for fabric) and paint work just fine. These things need to be said.  
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