DISCUSSION FORUMS
MAIN MENU
Home
Help
Advanced Search
Recent Posts
Site Statistics
Who's Online
Forum Rules
Bible Resources
• Bible Study Aids
• Bible Devotionals
• Audio Sermons
Community
• ChristiansUnite Blogs
• Christian Forums
• Facebook Apps
Web Search
• Christian Family Sites
• Top Christian Sites
• Christian RSS Feeds
Family Life
• Christian Finance
• ChristiansUnite KIDS
Shop
• Christian Magazines
• Christian Book Store
Read
• Christian News
• Christian Columns
• Christian Song Lyrics
• Christian Mailing Lists
Connect
• Christian Singles
• Christian Classifieds
Graphics
• Free Christian Clipart
• Christian Wallpaper
Fun Stuff
• Clean Christian Jokes
• Bible Trivia Quiz
• Online Video Games
• Bible Crosswords
Webmasters
• Christian Guestbooks
• Banner Exchange
• Dynamic Content

Subscribe to our Free Newsletter.
Enter your email address:

ChristiansUnite
Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 29, 2024, 11:39:19 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
286809 Posts in 27568 Topics by 3790 Members
Latest Member: Goodwin
* Home Help Search Login Register
  Show Posts
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5
46  Welcome / About You! / Re:New Here on: May 14, 2003, 07:19:34 PM
What did Swedenborg smoke  Grin

Swedenborg didn't smoke anything. The Holy Scripture was made false by man in the year 325 AD when the members of that Council invented a doctrine of three Divine persons from eternity. This was done because they can't explain how Our Lord Jesus Christ was God.

This crime was committed by Arius and his followers. Consequently a Council was summoned by Constantine the Great to meet at Nicaea, a city of Bithynia*; and its members, in order to expel the damaging heresy of Arius, invented, concluded and laid down the doctrine that the three Divine persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, existed from eternity, each of whom had a personality, and came into and continued in existence by Himself and in Himself. They also held a false idea that the second person, the Son, came down and took upon Himself human form and carried out the redemption, and by this means His Human has divinity by hypostatic union, so that by this union He has close kinship with God the Father.

 This was the beginning from which there spread over the earth heaps of unspeakable heresies about God and the person of Christ.

Antichrist then began to rear his head, and split God into three, and the Lord the Saviour into two, thus destroying the Temple the Lord had built by means of His Apostles.

This went so far that every stone was pried loose, until not one was left upon another, as predicted by His words (Matt. 24:2).

Here 'Temple' does not mean just the Temple in Jerusalem, but also the church; and the whole of that chapter deals with its consummation or end.
 
 But could anything else have been expected of that Council, or those which followed it, seeing that they likewise divided the Divinity into three parts, and put the incarnate God on their footstool beneath them?

 For they cut off the church's head from its body by climbing up another way, that is, by by-passing the Lord and crossing over to God the Father, as if He were another God, simply keeping on their tongues the phrase 'Christ's merit,' so that He should pity them for its sake.

 Thus, they thought, justification would flow directly into them, together with all that accompanies it, forgiveness of sins, renewal, sanctification, regeneration and salvation, and all this without any intervention on the person's part.

Harry
 [/b]
47  Theology / General Theology / God is One In Person and In Essence on: May 07, 2003, 03:48:26 PM

The Lord from eternity, who is Jehovah, came into the world to subdue the hells and to glorify His Human. Without this no mortal could have been saved, and those are saved who believe in Him.
 
The expression 'in universal terms' is used because this is a universal point of faith, and a universal point of faith must be contained in all its particulars.

It is a universal point of faith that God is one in essence and in person, in whom is the Divine Trinity, and that He is the Lord God the Saviour Jesus Christ.

 It is a universal point of faith that no mortal could have been saved, if the Almighty God had not come into the world.

It is a universal point of faith that He came into the world to take hell away from men, and He did this by fighting against hell and winning victories over it.

 In this way He subdued it and reduced it to order, and made it subject to His command.

 It is a universal point of faith that He came into the world to glorify the Human which He assumed in the world, that is, to unite it with the originating Divinity.

By this means He keeps hell for ever in order and subject to His command.

Since this could only be achieved by means of temptations experienced in His Human, even to the most extreme, His passion on the cross, He underwent this. These are the universal matters of faith concerning the Lord.
 
It is a universal point of faith on the part of man to believe in the Lord, who is Almighty Father in the Human, for this belief links him to the Lord, and this is the way to salvation.

 Believing in Him means having confidence that He is the Saviour; and since only those who lead good lives can have such confidence, this too is meant by believing in Him. The Lord says this in John's gospel:
 
This is the will of the Father, that everyone who believes in the Son should have everlasting life. John 6:40.
 
and elsewhere:
 
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life. He who does not believe in the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him. John 3:36. This means those who believe God Almighty became Man and that His Human is the Son of God have eternal life. The Father is not one person and the Son another, They are one Person, as the soul and body of a man makes one person, therefore the soul and body of Jesus Christ make one God.

Harry
 


48  Welcome / About You! / Re:New Here on: May 07, 2003, 03:33:46 PM

I've visited a Swedenborgian church/grounds once.  NIce place.

I stick pretty much with Jesus(author and perfector of our faith).  Thank you Jesus(for thy gift of eternal life).

Swedenborg had gone as far as he could go in attempting to explain the great questions of human existence solely through the faith into which he was born and which was reinforced by his own reasoning powers.

The results of his search left him dissatisfied, but a new phase of his life opened and the remaining years of his career must be viewed in a different perspective.

During 1744 and 1745 he had a number of dreams and visions which moved him profoundly.

He sometimes feared and sometimes felt exhilarated by what he experienced.

These were years of disquiet which he could not explain satisfactorily and, typically, he kept silent about them to others, although his Journal of Dreams and Journal of Travel written during this period recorded his experiences and emotions. He renewed his study of the Bible and began to write a book entitled Worship and Love of God.

Then in April of 1745 he underwent a penetrating experience. In London, while dining alone at an inn where he often went, Swedenborg noted that the room seemed to grow dark.

 He then saw a vision, and an apparition spoke to him. When the room cleared again Swedenborg went home to his apartment, considerably stirred by his experience.

During that night he again saw the vision. A spirit reappeared and spoke with him regarding the need for a human person to serve as the means by which God would further reveal himself to men in somewhat the manner of the biblical visions of the Old Testament."

Swedenborg came to believe that God had called him to bring a new revelation to the world, and from 1745 until his death twenty-seven years later he spent the bulk of his time adding theological works to his already lengthy scientific and philosophical writings.

From myself: A spirit reappeared and spoke with him regarding the need for a human person to serve as the means by which God would further reveal himself to men in somewhat the manner of the biblical visions of the Old Testament." This means that the Old Testament will be better understood. Once the OT is understood, than people will understand God fully. The Catholic Church saids the trinity was before creation, and that the OT speak of Mary in Genesis. This is all false. But this not the place for discussion on the truth about God.

Harry Smiley


 

49  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Who is Jesus? on: April 27, 2003, 10:05:49 PM
Matthew 16
13   When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14   And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15   He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16   And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17   And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

2 Cor. 12
3   Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

We should reverence Jesus as we would God. Jesus said I and the Father are one. If you dishonor Jesus you dishonor God. Jesus never refused worship from anyone. Worship Jesus!

asaph


"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matt. 16: 16) - The Messiah, the Body of the Infinite itself, which alone is Life-in-itself. The soul of Jesus is the Father.

Harry

50  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Who is Jesus? on: April 26, 2003, 08:58:46 AM
The short answer to who is Jesus is found in the first four verses of the Gospel of John, as well as in the entire first chapter.  He who hath an ear let him hear. Jesus of Nazareth is the LORD God Almighty (Isaiah 6:1-4; 9:6-7; John 12:37-41).

Sower,
The Holy Trinity is in one God, Our Lord Jesus Christ. He is not the second person of the trinity. He is the Holy Trinity itself.

Harry Smiley[/b]
51  Prayer / Prayer Requests / Re:HOW TO PRAY on: April 26, 2003, 08:45:06 AM
                        Continue

"Show me Your ways, 0 Lord; teach me Your paths" (Psalm 25:4). "It is because prudence is from God and not from man that a Christian ... prays that God will lead his thoughts ... and deeds". "O Lord, I know the way of man is not in himself; it is not in man who walks to direct his own steps. O Lord, correct me" (Jer. 10:23, 24).

Pray for conjugial love, for it is given to "those who from youth have ... asked the Lord for a legitimate and lovely partnership".

In prayer we are to follow the Lord's own example, as in the Garden of Gethsemane. "And being in agony, He prayed more earnestly" (Luke 22:44). We are to "fight against the falsities and evils which are ... injected by the hells" (AC 8179:2). In doing this, "a man must act of himself but from the Lord's power, which he must petition for". "Every man is so constituted as to be able, by the Lord's power, if he begs for it, to shun evils as of himself". "In order to refrain from sins and shun and turn away from them, [a person] must pray to the Lord for help". "O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will" (Matt. 26:39).

We are also to pray about people who upset us. "Pray for those who persecute you" (Matt. 5:44). "Whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him" (Mark 11:25. Pray for others to be forgiven their transgressions as well as to receive spiritual food. "Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts" (Matt. 6:11, 12).

Let prayer for others often be included in our petitions to the Lord. James wrote: "Is any among you sick? [Then] let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him ... Pray for one another that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (James 5:15, 16). "The Lord said, 'Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail'" (Luke 22:31, 32).

By praying for the spiritual welfare of others, we make it easier for the Lord to use our help. Also, our spheres are brought closer together so that we can receive greater influx from heaven. This is illustrated by a team of players backing each other, working together, so that their game is more effective and enjoyable.

Doesn't the Lord know all this without my praying about it? What difference does it make for me to pray.? Here is the answer: "Man should first will, desire, and pray, and the Lord then answer, inform, and do; otherwise man does not receive anything Divine ... The Lord gives them to ask, and what to ask; therefore the Lord knows it beforehand; but still the Lord wills that man should ask first, to the end that he may do it as from himself, and thus that it should be appropriated to him; otherwise, if the petition itself were not from the Lord, it would not be said in those places, that "they should receive whatsoever they asked".

Yes, we are to pray, "devoting much time to prayer" every day. And we will be able to testify about wonderful results. "I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them" (Mark 11:24). "If you ask anything in My name, I will do it" (John 14:14). "Ask and it will be given to you" (Matt. 7:7). Amen.

Harry Smiley

52  Prayer / Prayer Requests / Re:HOW TO PRAY on: April 26, 2003, 08:36:46 AM
                     Continue

Because of the wonderful response, sometimes incredible power we are able to receive from the Lord as a result of taking time to talk with Him, it should be no surprise to see hundreds of occasions when prayer is used in all three parts of the Word-prayers that are answered!

"Abraham prayed to God; and God healed Abimelech" (Gen. 20:17). "The people cried to Moses; and Moses prayed to the Lord, and the fire died down" (Num. 11:2 . "And the people came to Moses, and said . . . 'Pray to the Lord to take the snakes away from us.' So Moses prayed for the people." (Num. 21:7). Hannah prayed to have a child. Her prayer was granted and Samuel was born. "And Samuel said, Gather all Israel at Mizpeh, and I will pray to the Lord for you" (1 Sam. 7:5). "Far be it from me that I should sin against the Lord by ceasing to pray for you" (I Sam. 12:23).

Solomon prayed at the dedication of the temple (see I Kings Cool. Elisha prayed many times. Jonah prayed to be released from the belly of the fish (see Jonah 2:1). Hezekiah took the letter of Sennacherib into the house of the Lord and prayed (II Kings 19:14). Daniel prayed three times a day (Dan. 6:10). Many of the psalms are prayers. "Hear my prayer, 0 Lord" (Psalm 4: 1). The Lord says in Isaiah as well as in three of the Gospels: "My house shall be a house of prayer" (Isaiah 56:7; Matt. 21:13).

In the New Testament it is often said that the Lord Himself prayed. "He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray" (Matt. 14:23). "He was praying in a certain place, and when He ceased, one of His disciples said to Him, "Lord, teach us to pray" (Luke 11:1). And He taught them the model for any prayer, the Lord's Prayer. Then later He showed that they "always ought to pray" (Luke 18:1).

Pray about what?

"Jesus said . . . , 'Pray the Lord of the harvest to send laborers into His harvest'" (Luke 10:2). "He who knows anything of the Lord's coming, and of the New Heaven and New Church, thus of the Lord's kingdom, should pray that it may come".

"He who desires truth should pray that the Lord may come with light, and ... he who loves truths will then receive them from the Lord without his own work". "Everyone who, while reading the Word, approaches the Lord alone and prays to Him is enlightened in the Word".

To be continue
53  Prayer / Prayer Requests / Re:HOW TO PRAY on: April 26, 2003, 08:32:32 AM


If we have not humbled ourselves, how can the Lord enter our hearts? We are then like Moses before he took off his shoes at the burning bush. We are like Nebuchadnezzar boasting about his accomplishments just before he became a wild animal. We are like Peter telling the Lord what to do, just before he, Peter, was called Satan!

If we do not pray for things that will help in our spiritual life or promote the Lord's kingdom, how can He possibly respond? We are then like Saul asking the Lord to essentially maintain his reputation and glory. The Lord cannot and will not "heed prayers that are contrary to the end, which is salvation".

If we find our prayers go unanswered, we are going to do one of two things. Either we will give up, at best just going through the motions, just because the Lord requires us to pray daily, "morning and evening, also at dinners and suppers, or we will learn to be humble, to change our state, so that we may come into the temple of the Lord's holiness to speak with Him.

Bringing us into a state of humility is, in fact, a primary purpose of prayer. It is, therefore, a wonderful way of helping us to be humble. "He who supplicates is in humiliation" (AC 7391). When there is humility, then prayer works, "the Divine can flow in and be perceived".

"The Lord does indeed demand humiliation ... in man [but] for his own sake; because when he is in this state the Lord can flow in with heavenly good". The flower must turn itself to the sun! Like a flower that turns and offers itself to the sun, we also have something we can actually give to the Lord. When praying, we are offering Him our minds, our attention. He who is our spiritual sun will in turn bless us with the light and warmth of heaven.

To be continue
54  Prayer / Prayer Requests / Re:HOW TO PRAY on: April 26, 2003, 08:22:39 AM
                     Continue

Whether by silence or by a rebuff of some sort, the Lord does answer! So, after praying, if we do not feel any response, any new understanding, any idea of hopefulness, any consolation, or any sense of joy, the Lord may still answer by bringing into our consciousness a recollection of that story about the Canaanite woman.

Another story we suddenly may find ourselves remembering is that of Saul coming to Samuel to complain about the Lord's not answering his prayers! "Saul [said], 'I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me any more'" (I Sam. 28:15).

How could the Lord answer or help Saul after he had not once but twice deliberately rejected the Lord's instructions? On top of that he filled his heart with hate and vengeance against David. "If I cherished iniquity in my heart, the Lord would not have listened" (Psalm 66:18).

The Lord's apparent silence may bring to mind, by His secret touch, one of these stories in the Word, for, we are told, "no announcements or responses are ever made from heaven except through outmosts such as are in the sense of the letter of the Word".

Or the Lord may bring to mind another teaching from the Word that tells us about two conditions that are to be met before prayers can be answered. One condition has to do with our general attitude. It must have humility in it.

The other condition has to do with the subject of our prayer. It must show concern for one's own regeneration and the happiness of others. If either condition is missing, then the prayer is "mere babbling". It is seen in the spiritual world as a "bad-smelling odor", or as a mere "vocal sound" .

To be continue
55  Prayer / Prayer Requests / HOW TO PRAY on: April 26, 2003, 08:18:35 AM
                         How to Pray

Praying is having a talk with the Lord. It is "speech with God". It is not talking at Him, or to Him, but with Him. This means there's communication going on. Actually, "prayer is nothing but communication". There's a dialogue. I speak and the Lord answers.

His answer or His part in the dialogue comes in one or more of the following ways:

1. He may give me a better perspective or clearer understanding of whatever it is that I may be praying about. I may suddenly see or remember something I had forgotten. That is why we are told: "To pray signifies in the internal sense to be revealed" (AC 2535). A solution may present itself that was not apparent before. We see an example of this when an angel came as a result of Manoah's request to understand what was to be done with his son Samson.

2. When answering a prayer, sometimes the Lord may give me a sense of hope, when that is what is needed, and I may not have even realized it.

3. Other times I may feel comforted or consoled. Weep no more, the Lord has heard your prayer. Consider Hezekiah. After hearing his death sentence, "he turned his face toward the wall, and prayed to the Lord, saying 'Remember now, O Lord, I pray, how I have walked before You in truth and with a loyal heart....' And Hezekiah wept bitterly. Then it happened, before Isaiah had gone out of the middle court, that the word of the Lord came to him, saying, 'Return and tell Hezekiah..., Thus says the Lord...I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; surely I will heal you'" (II Kings 20:1-5).

4. There also may be times when, as a result of my praying, the Lord will fill me with a sense of well-being and even joyfulness, for that is one of His wishes - that I may have life and have it abundantly.

5. On occasion the answer to a prayer may be dramatic. Elijah's request for fire on Mt. Carmel was certainly that. Often an account in the Heavenly Doctrines might amaze us. Swedenborg wrote: "I saw some English clergy ... who prayed to the Lord that they might be permitted to ascend to a society of the higher heaven; which being granted, they ascended".

Now what if I pray and then receive or feel none of these good things? Could it be that the Lord has not heard and therefore not answered? Impossible! He must hear. He always hears.

When we don't feel a prayer has been answered, it may be that the answer is simply, No! Or it may be that the message is, "I won't help you. Don't talk to Me. "I tell you I do not know you ... Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity" (Luke 13:27). Because of the wickedness of the people, the Lord told Jeremiah: "Do not pray for this people, or lift up cry or prayer for them, and do not intercede with Me, for I do not hear you" (Jer. 7:16).

There was once a Phoenician woman, a Canaanite, who had a daughter possessed by a devil, and she came to the Lord asking for help (see Matt. 15:23). She spoke - if you like, she prayed to Jesus - knowing "that He was God” Himself (AE 815:5). But He answered first with silence and then a rebuff. There was, therefore, something about her request or state that was not acceptable to Him and needed changing.


To be continue
56  Welcome / About You! / New Here on: April 24, 2003, 10:46:10 PM

Hello,
My name is Harry. I am a member of the New Church (Swedenborgian). The church's doctrine is base on the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg.

Emanuel Swedenborg.
1688  Born in Stockholm, Sweden, on January 29.
 
1699-1709  Attended Uppsala University.  

1710-1715  First journey abroad, to England and the Continent.
 
1716  First publications by Swedenborg in the magazine Daedalus.
 
1716  Appointed Assessor in the Royal College of Mines.
 
1718  Ennoblement of Swedberg family with name changed to Swedenborg. Assumption by Swedenborg of seat in House of Nobles of Swedish Diet.
 
1720  Publication of Swedenborg's first book, a philosophic work titled Principles of Chemistry.  

1729-1734  Writing and publication of his most important philosophical works in three volumes, titled Philosophical and Mineralogical Works.

 
1735-1744  Period of intensive study, writing, and publication on the nature of human existence, particularly as regards the concept of the soul.
 
1743-1744  First transcendent experiences, visions or dreams, in Holland and England.
 
1745  "Call" to become a revelator, London, England.
 
1747  Resignation from the Swedish Board of Mines to allow time for theological writing.  

1747-1758  Writing and publication of the twelve-volume Arcana Coelestia, Swedenborg's first major theological work.
 
1759-1761  Incidents of the Stockholm fire, the Dutch ambassador's receipt, and the Queen's secret illustrating Swedenborg's clairvoyance.  

1769-1771  Heresy trial at Gothenburg, Sweden, involving state church accusations against Swedenborg's theology.
 
1771-1772  Publication of the two-volume True Christian Religion in Amsterdam, Holland, his last major theological work.
 
1772  Death in London, England, at age 84, on March 29.  

Harry Smiley
57  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Who is Jesus? on: April 24, 2003, 10:30:54 PM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Continue
                  Who is Jesus

"I am come from God" (John 8:42) - meaning, the Body came forth from the Soul.

"The Son can do nothing of Himself, - but what He seeth the Father do" (John 5:19) - meaning, the Body can do nothing of Itself, but what it is directed to do by the Soul.

"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matt. 16: 16) - The Messiah, the Body of the Infinite itself, which alone is Life-in-itself.

"This is My beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased" (Matt. 3:17) - meaning, the Divine Body in which it pleased the Lord to dwell while on earth.

"My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28) - meaning, the Soul is greater than the Body, since it directs it.

"No Man cometh unto the Father but by Me" (John 14:6) - Just as we cannot know a man's soul except insofar as his body reveals it.

The only way we can have any idea of the Divine Soul is by means of the Divine Body, which was visible to man. In this view of the Trinity, we are not obliged any longer to picture more Divine Persons than One, nor more Infinities than One. We can see that it can be rationally understood. We can see that in the Lord Jesus Christ is the Divine Trinity, just as in the body of every man there is the human trinity of soul, body, and spirit ( proceeding influence).

This idea seems to have been glimpsed somewhat among the Early Christians, who, though commanded by the Lord to baptize into the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19), actually used a different formula: they baptized "in the name of Jesus Christ." (Acts 2:38, 8:16, 10:48) And so do we in the Church of the New Jerusalem(Swedenborg).

The idea of the Lord that the Apostles had is now restored, and filled with details. In its general form it is not new; it was there all the time, and it was summed up beautifully by Paul in one of his letters, in these words: "In Jesus Christ dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form."

This is the vision of the Lord that is possible again today. It is a concept that is capable of unceasing development, not one that is stunted and stultified by the dogma of "a Divine Mystery". It allows everyone to picture his Creator taking on a frail human nature in order to present more closely with mankind, a human nature that could be tempted, and that could at last be glorified or made Divine, as Divine as His Soul, by means of victories in those temptation battles.

That is why at the end Jesus could truly say to the disciples, "All power is given unto Me in heaven and on earth."Whoever has all power is surely the Almighty. So even doubting Thomas finally worshipped the Lord, saying: "My Lord and My God".Amen

Harry Smiley  
 
 
58  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Who is Jesus? on: April 24, 2003, 10:26:27 PM

The teaching that there is no other God besides Jehovah defines our understanding of another prophecy in Isaiah: "The Lord (Jehovah) Himself shall give you a sign; behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel." (7:14)

Since the name Immanuel can be translated in no other way than "God-with-us," it follows as an irresistible conclusion that it was the Lord God, Jehovah, the only God, who was to come into the world, as the Saviour, and appear as the Son of a virgin.

This, in fact, is the burden of all the Old Testament passages that treat of the Advent of the Messiah.

Let the following be taken as representative: "And it shall be said in that day, This is our God; we have waited for Him that He may deliver us; this is Jehovah ... we will rejoice and be glad in His salvation," (Isa. 25-9)

"The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of Jehovah, make plain in the solitude a highway for our God... Behold, the Lord Jehovah shall come in strength. (Isa. 40:3,5,10; compare Matt, 3, et al) Here again, the teaching is that the Lord the Creator would also come as the Redeemer.

Again, in the Old Testament the Lord Jehovah says that He is the First and the Last, but in the New Testament, in the Book of Revelation, Jesus says He is the First and the Last.

Now, it is impossible to have TWO GODS being the first or the last. Obviously, it must be the same Person who is described in both cases.

We recall also that the Lord of the Old Testament says He is the only Saviour, and that His glory He would not give to another.

Yet in the New Testament JESUS is frequently called the Saviour. Does it not follow as an irresistible conclusion, then, that Jesus must be Jehovah in the Human Form, a thought that is re-enforced by the knowledge that Jesus means "Jehovah saves?"

In full agreement with this, in the New Testament we find the Lord Jesus Christ saying to the multitude "I and the Father are ONE" -- not two, but one; and He did not say anything about one in purpose, or anything like that. He said simply ONE. In any case, his audience made no mistake about his meaning (the only possible meaning); they took up stones to stone Him, and when asked why they do so, their reply was: "Because that Thou being a Man, maketh Thyself God."

It is interesting that the Jewish Church which rejected Him could see what He was saying - but the Christian Church which accepted Him, has not fully known Him.

Further-more, in the first chapter of John, it is written: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made ... He was in the world and the world was made by Him and the world knew Him not... And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us." (John 1:1,3,10,14)

Here it is plainly stated that it was the Creator of the world who came on earth in the form of a man.

Again, the Lord when on earth said: "Before Abraham was, I AM." (John 8:58) "I AM." can have but one meaning; it is Jehovah's name (Exodus 3:14), and it means Being - the only Divine Being or Life itself. On this occasion, also, the Jews understood the Lord to be saying, "I am Jehovah," and therefore wished to stone Him for blasphemy.

From all these passages the teaching is manifest; Jehovah (or the Father) and Jesus (the Son of God) are actually the same Divine Person.

But it is the fourteenth chapter of the Gospel of John, above all, that this teaching is given its clearest expression.

Here, Jesus, having referred to His going to His Father, is misunderstood by both Thomas and Philip and all Christians today, who think that He is referring to some other Person. Philip therefore says: "Lord shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us." (John 14:  The Lord's answer is worthy of our closest attention, for in it the misunderstanding is removed: "Have I been so long time with you," (He asked) "and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip? He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" (verse 9) Could anything be more plain? What other Father can there be but the One whom Philip's eyes were beholding?

Then the Lord went on to give an explanation which furnishes the clue to the understanding of the whole doctrine. He said: "The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in Me, He doeth the works." (verse 10)

Now, how are we to understand that? What is it that dwelleth within, causes words to be spoken, and also "doeth the works?"

What else answers this description but the soul? It dwelleth within, it causes words to be spoken, it "doeth the works." What else fits the description, in this case, but the Divine Soul? Is not the soul as a father to the body? Is not the body a kind of offspring from the soul?

When we see that the "Father" means the Divine in Itself or the Divine Soul of the Son, and that the "Son of God" means the Divine Body visible to man, then we are for the first time in a position to understand something about the Holy Spirit.

In every man there is a trinity -- a human trinity. It is not a trinity of persons; it is a trinity of essentials, a trinity of soul, body, and that intangible influence that flows forth from the union of soul and body.

This spirit or proceeding influence is approximately what is called in popular language, a man's personality or spirit.

It is the sphere that emanates from the combination of his soul and body, and this is what has an effect on other people.

Man has this trinity of soul, body and spirit because he is made in the image of God, and in God there is a Divine Trinity -- the Divine Soul, called the Father; Divine Body, called the Son; and the Divine Spirit called the Holy Spirit.

This understanding of the relationship between God and the Son of God is a real understanding, for it throws light on the Word, both the Old Testament and the New.

The real teaching of the Word becomes transparently clear when all passages are considered, and when those which teach unequivocally that there is but one God are taken as the basis, all others being interpreted in that light.

Now we can see where the obscurity or confusion (or mystery) came from.

It came from taking the wrong set of passages as the basis - that is, the first group we looked at - those that seemed to teach that there were separate Divine Beings.

In the new view of the subject, these passages can be understood in quite a different way.
To be continue
59  Theology / Apologetics / Who is Jesus? on: April 24, 2003, 10:23:00 PM

Some parts of the Gospels make it look as there were three Divine persons, and other parts of the make it look as if the Trinity were one Divine Person.

Here are some examples of the first group: Jesus said: "I am come from God" (John 8:42);

"The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what he seeth the Father do". (John 5:19)

As we have already seen, Simon Peter said: "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." (Matt. 16:16)

At the Lord's baptism a voice from heaven was heard to say: "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." ("Matt. 3:17)

The Lord also said: "My Father is greater than I." (John 14:28);

"No man cometh unto the Father but by Me." (John 14:6)

On the cross Jesus said: "Father, forgive them ..." (Luke 23:34), and "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" (Matt. 27:46)

Also, after the resurrection, the Lord said to the disciples, "Teach all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father , and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19)

In this last passage, not only does it seem that the Father and the Son are distinct, but also that there is yet a third Divine Person or Being, the Holy Spirit.

If we were to consult only such passages as these, and ignore all the others that seem to conflict with them, we might come to the conclusion that God is in three Persons.

This is extremely puzzling to anyone of a reflective turn of mind, because his common sense tells him that there simply cannot be three Divine Persons, or three Divine Beings because this is the same as saying that there can be three Infinities of three Gods.

The task of uniting three distinct Divinities into one God is a forlornly hopeless task.

But the way of this frustration is to notice that it is never explicitly stated in so many words that the Father and the Son are two distinct Persons.

That is never said. But it was assumed - taken for granted - by the Councils of the Early Christian Church from 325 AD onwards and has been unthinkingly accepted as the orthodox Christian faith itself.

But search as you will, you will never find a passage that says explicitly that the Father and the Son are TWO, or that he who has seen the Son has yet to see the Father.

As a matter of fact, you will find the very opposite, as we shall see in a moment.

Moreover, the second thing to be noted is that while it has usually been taken for granted that in these passages the terms "Father" and "Son" always refer to people, this is not necessarily the case.

Do we not say in common speech, "The wish is father to the thought?" And in the Word we find a similar usage: "When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44)

From these considerations we may see how risky it is to seize upon only one of the possible meanings of a term and build doctrine upon it.

Even though the common usage at the present time is that "father" and "son" refer to different persons, if we assume that as a principle here, we shall encounter severe difficulties, especially from the second group of passages referred to already (those that teach that God the Father and God the Son are the same and the only Divine Person).

To be continue
60  Prayer / Prayer Requests / Re:Who is Jesus? on: April 24, 2003, 10:17:13 PM


John 1:2   "and the Word was with God" with God ,means, in God, for truth is in good, and good is in truth.Amen

Harry Smiley
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5



More From ChristiansUnite...    About Us | Privacy Policy | | ChristiansUnite.com Site Map | Statement of Beliefs



Copyright © 1999-2019 ChristiansUnite.com. All rights reserved.
Please send your questions, comments, or bug reports to the

Powered by SMF 1.1 RC2 | SMF © 2001-2005, Lewis Media