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286855 Posts in 27569 Topics by 3790 Members
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61  Theology / Bible Study / Re:tongues???? on: January 24, 2005, 05:07:06 PM
nice scripts, Gary.

For me, they mean spiritual blessings, not material.  Material blessings come by the grace of God when, if, and how He wills, not by my demand or desire or need, but His alone.  

ps: the binding and loosing script does not refer to getting and getting - that is in reference to church leadership in deciding matters of judgment against or for individuals that appear to have done wrong.
62  Theology / Bible Study / Re:tongues???? on: January 24, 2005, 10:03:23 AM
Jesus said - seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven and all these things shall be added unto you.

All that God's gives me is His grace.  I never refuse what He gives me.  It is all about Him, not me.  I don't need faith to receive from God.  He provides for my needs - because He knows my needs before I ask.  In other words - He will provide because He is my God.

Jesus also said not to worry about food or clothing because God would provide those things for me.

My desire is to serve God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength.  Whatever He gives me is for His purpose that I may be dependent on Him for everything, day by day.
63  Theology / Bible Study / Re:tongues???? on: January 24, 2005, 12:15:19 AM
God sent His Son, Jesus, to purchase my redemption with His blood.  It was an extreme price.  He owes me nothing, but I owe Him everything - and a debt I cannot pay.
64  Theology / Bible Study / Re:tongues???? on: January 23, 2005, 10:17:07 PM
sorry, hun - I want nothing from God but Himself.

Phil 3:7 But whatever things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 But no, rather, I also count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them to be dung, so that I may win Christ
9 ∂ and be found in Him; not having my own righteousness, which is of the Law, but through the faith of Christ, the righteousness of God by faith,
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable to His death;
11 if by any means I might attain to the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect, but I am pressing on, if I may lay hold of that for which I also was taken hold of by Christ Jesus.
13 My brothers, I do not count myself to have taken possession, but one thing I do , forgetting the things behind and reaching forward to the things before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

shalom, nana
65  Theology / General Theology / Re:Is God omnipotent? on: January 23, 2005, 01:47:29 PM
How about:  If God was small enough for me to understand Him, He wouldn't be big enough to be God.

touche`   Grin   Grin   Grin
66  Theology / Bible Study / Re:tongues???? on: January 23, 2005, 01:43:13 PM
Faith in God has nothing to do with believing God for healing, for things, for manifestations.   The grace and faith of God alone blesses us.

Even Paul, who had much more faith than all of us put together could not be healed.  Neither could Timothy or Miletus.

You are equating faith with getting.

Faith is simply believing in God.  That He exists.  That He is the Messiah.  That He is our Provider.  That He will do as He chooses in our lives, not because we ask, but because it is His will.

The teachings of faith throughout the NT are not to "get" for ourselves, but for the transformation of our spirituality.  

When Jesus healed because of a person's faith, it was not because they believed He could heal, but because they believed He was the Messiah.  And if He healed and they did not understand it, the healing was to open their eyes to the truth of His Messiahship.

Many thousands of Christians are ill, mentally and physically disabled and incapacitated.  This does not mean they lack faith.  It means that God is using them for another purpose and that illness is being used by God to cause them to be dependent on Him alone.

Only God knows the heart and His perfect will and desire is to get us in complete and total oneness with Him - in Spirit, first of all.  Healing comes that we may carry out the will of God in our lives, but often times, we do the will of God in spite of our illness or physical disabilities, because it is by His strength alone that we endure.

Does God heal when we pray?  Yes, often times He does.  But often times He does not.  And it can be the same person.  Does that mean the person lacks faith?  No.  It is not our faith that heals. It is the faith of God, the ability and desire of God to heal for His purpose.

It bothers me extremely that you believe God wants people wealthy and in complete health.  That is deception plain and simple.  

There was a time [when I was under that spirit of deception that claimed God would heal because I said so] that I fell and twisted my ankle and believed in faith that God would heal me.  I had NO doubt that He could and continued to walk on it quoting many verses and confessing my healing.  Yes, it eventually healed on its own after several months.  It probably would have healed faster if I had not been so stubborn and gone to a doctor and had it x-rayed and wrapped.  Instead, I suffered greatly for a long time because I believed God could heal me when it obviously was not His will to do it "in faith", but to get the medical help I needed.

Many people have died and been crippled for life because they "believed in faith" for their healing.  This kind of doctrine is not Biblical.

satan is very capable of healing and will heal in Jesus' Name to keep you in captivity.  In the end times - which are now - he will be able to do signs and wonders far greater than we can imagine and it is possible that it is under his spirit by which you are being healed, not God's - even if you are professing that God is the Healer.  

I fear that you are missing much spiritual understanding, for you are bent on getting from God, not just being content with God alone and expecting nothing from Him but His will.

shalom, nana
67  Theology / Bible Study / Re:tongues???? on: January 23, 2005, 12:18:43 AM
To be honest, Gary - I think you are seeking the feeling and without it you may not have faith at all.  All of your dependence on the Holy Spirit is that He doing something for you all the time.

Just as an experiment, stop praying in tongues, stop expecting a feeling and a physical manifestation of God for a week.  Depend solely on the faith that God has given you to lead you into His truth without all the bells and whistles.  Then you will know what faith truly is  Smiley

True faith is believing God by, in, and through His Word alone.

shalom, nana   Cool
68  Theology / Bible Study / Re:tongues???? on: January 17, 2005, 12:03:01 PM
The problem with that premise, Gary - is that you are saying that God wasted His time giving us minds - We have the mind of Christ - which means our minds work together with the Holy Spirit, not against Him - once you are generated of Spirit and Water.

We are to pray with our minds.  The Holy Spirit gives us thoughts and things to pray for.  Many times I have been praying and God gives me things to pray for that I would have never thought of - that is praying in the Spirit.

There are no scriptures in the NT that say praying in the Spirit is praying in some jibberish language to God.

Spirituality is *how* you live - your mind set.  It comes from a continual persuit of  Godliness and holiness - cleansed by the washing of the water of THE WORD.  It is not some ethereal manifestation by which we "feel" God or His presence.

Knowing God, imitating Jesus Christ all comes from spending time with Him - not "in the Spirit" [we are the temple of the HS - he does not come and go] - it is a spiritual premise - not a physical one [we can't see it, feel it, taste it, hear it, or "experience it".

You are transferring the spiritual to a physical manifestation and there is absolutely no scriptural grounds for that.  Being in the Spirit is simply being right with God, allowing Him to reign, and seeking His will in all things.  That is true spirituality - not running around jibbering a bunch of syllables that mean nothing.  That is exactly what Jesus was referring to saying that a repetitive prayer is what the heathens do.

I believed the same things you do, Gary - but what God showed me is that I was trying to live a life out of my own self serving righteousness thinking that all my doing "in the Spirit" was godly - in fact it was interferring with His work in me, not transforming and renewing me into His image.

When you seek for a spiritual manifestation such as tongues, and hang your complete life in God on that - you are being deceived.  I also spoke in tongues believing I was speaking some holy language to God - then I discovered that the tongues manifestation was brought to this country by men who had incepted in from satanic tribes in Africa and TAUGHT people how to do tongues - this is of satan, not God.  That spirit is within the whole movement that promotes this teaching.

Do you understand, Gary - that the movement that started the tongues thing here in the USA was started by men who do not believe that Jesus is God?  That His death on the cross was not enough - that He had to go to hell, take on the nature of satan and be tormented by demons in order to fulfill the sin sacrifice?  then God raised Him from the dead - He was reborn as "a" god.  This is a false gospel.  That means that EVERYTHING they teach is wrapped in lies and deception, no matter how much truth it appears to have.  This is where the seducing spirit came from which has given birth to the tongue movement in this country.

When you submit yourself to this spirit - and it is a seducing spirit - you will speak in tongues regardless if you are a believer or not - because the gospel you came to belief in is NOT THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST - it is another gospel.  It is there to pull you away from God, not to bring you closer to Him.  You get hung up on the tongues, believing that God can't work without it.  That in order for Him to do anything in your life you have to do this jabber thing for Spirituality.  That is SO contrictory to the message of the Gospel.

Can there be true believers in this movement?  Yes, by the grace of God - and some as ones escaping as through the flames.  I was there once.  I know it was the grace of God that showed me His truth in His Holy Word and saved me from a life of continued deception.

As long as you continue to jabber in tongues, your eyes will be blinded to the truth.  May God have mercy on you and may you strive to seek Him with all your heart for His truth.

shalom, nana
69  Theology / Bible Study / Re:tongues???? on: January 16, 2005, 11:01:57 PM
It is very simple, really.  In all the examples when tongues was given in Acts, it was not asked for or prayed for, and there is no example of a private prayer language being given to anyone.  

Rom 8:26 " the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered"  means exactly that - it is not an uttered or spoken language.  Look up the strong's - this verse is taught in error to support a private prayer language.

if you are praying in a private prayer language you are being deceived - the enemy comes masquerading as an angel of light.  I was there, so I know how it feels and I also know why it happened to me.  I thought it was God, but it was a seducing spirit.  Please understand, this is deception.  Do the research.

shalom, nana

70  Theology / General Theology / Re: Is Tithing for New Covenant Believers? on: January 10, 2005, 10:27:41 AM
Accord to Heb 10, Jesus died ONCE for all.  By saying that the sacrifices that continued for approx 40 were sanctified by God is saying that Jesus sacrifice was not enough.

It is true that the sacrifice was done, and it was God's grace to allow the Jews 40 years to stop - but those sacrifices were null and void once Jesus said It is Finished.  Those words are referring to the Law, which was the standard by which sin was made known.  Jesus, when He said "It is Finished" was referring to the Old Covenant, which included the sacrifice for sin and the whole Law.

Many of the eyes were blinded by the Hebrews and their leaders, and refused to accept Him as Messiah, so they continued the sacrificial system out of rebellion.

Col 2:13 ∂ And you, being dead in the deviations and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the deviations,
14 blotting out the handwriting in the ordinances against us, which was contrary to us, even He has taken it out of the midst, nailing it to the cross;
15 having stripped the rulers and the authorities, He made a show of them in public, triumphing over them in it.

Hbr 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].

Jesus also said, the New Covenant was in His shed blood - not 40 years later. He said This IS the New Covenant in His shed blood, not This WILL BE the New Covenant.

The sacrifices for sin were done on a voluntary basis, so therefore I do not believe the disciples ever did the sacrifices for sin again.  If they had, they would have been in rebellion, sacrificing Jesus over again.

As I said before, Paul's words are sometimes misunderstood because he spoke in the present tense of times past.  This is very clear in all of his epistles.

God does not  "enforce" a covenant.  It is a gift, and the New Covenant was valid and in place the moment Jesus said, It is Finished.  Yes, there was grace for a transitional period for understanding and compliance, but the New Covenant was in effect, in spite of.

If you say the covenant was not in effect until 40 years later, then every believer who believed on Jesus for salvation between His death and the destruction of the temple did not receive that which they believed.

The veil was rent in two - HELLO!!!!!!!!   Grin

Rev 13:8 And all dwelling on the earth will worship it, those whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.

shalom, nana
71  Theology / General Theology / Re: Is Tithing for New Covenant Believers? on: January 09, 2005, 06:22:05 PM
Silver wrote:
The New Covenant of grace DID NOT immediately go into effect the moment that Christ died.  In fact, the Lord gave the Jews a 40-year window to set in motion the New Covenant.  At the end of those 40 years God allowed the Romans to destroy the temple and officially end the period of the Law.  This is another sign of grace from the Father, that He would give the Jews 40 more years after Jesusí death to begin the transformation from Law to grace.  40 in the bible refers to a period of testing, and this is what God did in regards to ending the period of the Law.  God is good.  

I see.  So the New Covenant was not in effect, which means the daily sacrifice for sin needed to be continued until 70AD.  Interesting, since God rent the veil of the temple in two the moment Jesus died   Roll Eyes

So where is it scripture that God said there was a 40 year grace period after Jesus died before the New Covenant is in effect Huh

ps:  Jesus said that He fulfilled all the law and the prophets.
72  Theology / General Theology / Re: Is Tithing for New Covenant Believers? on: January 08, 2005, 11:43:10 PM
cris wrote:
 Let's see, Christ was putting the NC of Grace into effect "as" He taught, but it wasn't fully effective until He said, "It is finished."  

Correct.  There was a transitional time, but in God's time frame it was already in effect.  Just because man was not aware until he was told [heard the gospel message] does not mean it was not in effect the moment Jesus died.

God's Word has no time frame.  It matters little "when" Hebrews was written to His whole scheme of things.  When Paul wrote Hebrews, he was explaining how the New Covenant came into effect - it is important to remember this because his writings often times are written in the present tense, but refer to the past.

Also, just for a little extra "nuance":

Rev 13:8 And all dwelling on the earth will worship it, those whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.

73  Theology / General Theology / Re: Is Tithing for New Covenant Believers? on: January 08, 2005, 11:10:37 PM
cris wrote:
Hebrews was written 30 years afterwards.

could you be a little more specific?  thanx  Grin
74  Theology / General Theology / Re: Is Tithing for New Covenant Believers? on: January 08, 2005, 10:41:17 PM
cris wrote:
I thought it was against the OT law to heal on the Sabbath.  Jesus healed on the Sabbath.  Or, maybe it was never against the law in the first place.  Maybe that's what man added to the law.  Didn't the Pharisees accuse Him of breaking the law or their interpretation of what the law was?

He (Jesus) did say He didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it.  

One of the things Jesus did was to refute additions to the Law of Moses, called "fences" or "borders".  These "laws" were added to keep people from accidentally disobeying God's Law [Mosaic Law].  Those added fences were never instructed by God, but were man's tradition.  Jesus was against the "traditons of men".

Healing was never prohibited on the Sabbath.  Doing good for your neighbor was to be held above the Sabbath prohibition.  For instance, if a neighbors donkey or sheep fell in a hole on the Sabbath, then you were to help me haul it out.  Jesus was saying that people are no less important to God.

Jesus did not abolish the Law if He fulfilled it, right?  Grin

Joshua wrote:
p.s. If Christ didn't fulfill the Law, and broke the OT Law, then we're still in our sins, and that owuld mean that Christ sinned...which is saying that God is sin, and that He is impure, which is contrary to Scripture...follow me. So NO Christ did not break OT Law. How could He break it when HE WAS THE LAW! lol. GB

I am curious as to where the concept came from that Jesus had to keep OT law in order to be the Perfect sacrifice.  Do you have scripture support for that?

75  Theology / General Theology / Re: Is Tithing for New Covenant Believers? on: January 08, 2005, 09:53:27 PM
cris wrote:
Jesus broke the OT law, so how was it valid until His death.

because God said it was Smiley

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Hbr 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah

Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.

Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
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