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16  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Is the Son.. Jesus the Christ, the father? on: April 30, 2005, 08:47:46 PM

      Who raised Jesus from the dead?

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Jhn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John 10:17  Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.  18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

shalom, nana
17  Theology / Debate / Re:MESSIAH'S LAST PETITIONS FOR UNITY! on: April 13, 2005, 07:53:29 PM
Unity in Messiah was accomplished when Jesus died on the cross.  Unity is a spiritual issue, not a physical one.  All those who are one with Him in Spirit are in unity with each other in Him, regardless of location, ethnicity. [In Christ in neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, free nor slave].

Spiritual unity is not about keeping the law.  The unity in Messiah is about relationship with Him and doing His will - which His plan for our lives.  This is how the unity of Spirit is manifested in this age:  to bear our cross, to love Him as He loves us, to love others as He loves us, and to serve others as He gave Himself for us.

The Law was fulfilled in Messiah.  We continue to fulfil that law with the love that He has placed within our hearts.

Jhn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Jam 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Matt 22:37 Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Col 2:13 ¶ And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross.
15 Having stripped rulers and authorities, He made a show of them publicly, triumphing over them in it.

Hbr 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Hbr 9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.

Eph 2:14 ¶ For He is our peace, He making us both one, and He has broken down the middle wall of partition between us ,
15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity (the Law of commandments contained in ordinances) so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, making peace between them ;
16 and so that He might reconcile both to God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity in Himself.
17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off, and to those who were near.
18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Gal 3:19 ¶ Why then the Law? It was added because of transgressions, until the Seed should come to those to whom it had been promised, being ordained through angels in the Mediator's hand.
20 But the Mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the Law then against the promises of God? Let it not be said ! For if a law had been given which could have given life, indeed righteousness would have been out of Law.
22 But the Scripture shut up all under sin, so that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under Law, having been shut up to the faith about to be revealed.
24 So that the Law has become a trainer of us until Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But faith coming, we are no longer under a trainer.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many as were baptized into Christ, you put on Christ.
28 There cannot be Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is no male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.

Gal 4:21 ¶ Tell me, those desiring to be under Law, do you not hear the Law?
22 For it is written: Abraham had two sons, the one out of the slave-woman, and one out of the free woman.
23 But, indeed, he out of the slave-woman has been born according to flesh, and he out of the free woman through the promise;
24 which things are being allegorized; for these are the two covenants, one indeed from Mount Sinai bringing forth to slavery, which is Hagar.
25 For Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in slavery with her children.
26 But the Jerusalem from above is free, who is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, "Rejoice, barren one not bearing; break forth and shout, you not travailing; for more are the children of the desolate than she having the husband."
28 But brothers, we, like Isaac, are children of promise.
29 But then even as he born according to flesh persecuted him born according to the Spirit, so it is also now.
30 But what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the slave-woman and her son; for in no way shall the son of the slave-woman inherit with the son of the free woman."
31 Then, brothers, we are not children of a slave-woman, but of the free woman.

Acts 15:5 But some of those from the sect of the Pharisees, having believed, rose up, saying, It was necessary to circumcise them and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 ¶ And the apostles and elders were assembled to see about this matter.
7 And after much disputing, Peter rose up and said to them, Men, brothers, you recognize that from ancient days God chose among us that through my mouth the nations should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit even as to us.
9 And He put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why do you tempt God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples, a yoke which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
23 And they wrote these things by their hand: The apostles and elders and brothers send greeting to the brothers, from the nations in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
24 Because we have heard that certain ones who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, Be circumcised and keep the law! (to whom we gave no such command);
25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 men who have given up their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 Therefore we have sent Judas and Silas, who will also announce to you the same things by word.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these necessary things:
29 that you abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication; from which, if you keep yourselves, you shall do well. Be prospered.
30 Then indeed they being let go, they came to Antioch. And gathering the multitude, they delivered the letter.
31 And when they had read it , they rejoiced at the comfort.
32 And Judas and Silas, also being prophets themselves, exhorted the brothers with many words and confirmed them .

shalom, nana

18  Theology / Bible Study / Re:Jonah on: April 02, 2005, 10:05:11 PM
I am currently on another forum which was discussing the yahweh issue and thought I would share one of the posts.   There will be further discussions on this, but were put on hold for a short time.  Link is at the bottom.

I have been corresponding with my old forum friend HT on the name issue, and he sent me this as a response. I thought that I would post it.

Theophoric elements and Biblical names.

In the scriptures, Yeho (Yud-Hey) was a theophoric element that was used in a minimum of seventeen Biblical names. This can be proven simply by using only a concordance, and by starting at #3059, and reviewing names up to #3092 in the Hebrew. In all cases, the Hebrew meanings of these Biblical names translate as "YHVH has/will"(what He did or will do) with a specified action on His part. What was Joshua's original name? First check #1954 and notice the root word that Oshea/Hoshea it is derived from (yasha), while keeping in mind it's relation to the NT Greek term Hosanna (#5614). Then read Numbers 13:19. Anyone ever question why in post Torah writings he (Oshea/Hoshea) was referred to as Yehoshua, the same name that the Messiah later used in a shortened form? (Yeshua #3442) It is also interesting to note that after the return from captivity, Yehoshua was shortened to Yeshua in writings such as Nehemiah while referring to the very same Joshua, the son of Nun.

Check out the Biblical names with this element in the first syllable, and you will see that they all share the Yud Hey as the first two letters. Then check out the vowel pointings. If someone does not believe that the vowel pointings are correct, or have been intentionally tampered with, then they could possibly form another opinion by referencing extra-Biblical sources.

There are Bibilical names and expressions which use Yah as an ending, such as HalleleuYah, and the name Yah appears in the TeNaKh. People such as Michael Rood and others have stated that the Messiah's Name is YAHshua. He has then stated that he does not like to use the name Yeshua, because it only means "salvation". This needs to be clarified, as it is an incorrect statement. yeshuah (#3444) written Yud-Shin-Vav-Ayin-Hey, is a feminine noun that means "salvation".
Yeshua (#3442) written Yud-Shin-Vav-Ayin, is a male noun that means "He is salvation", and is the name that refers to Joshua in the TeNaKh. It is written in Matthew 1:21  "for He will save His people from their sins"

To me:



Make perfectly good sense, but everyone must be convicted in their own minds.

nana note:
I hauled out my trusty old Strong's hard copies for comparison to "test out" the names.  I was surprised that my Strong's from 10 years ago uses "Jehovah" while my newest [Strongest Strong's - published in 2001] uses "Yahweh".

Why do I get the feeling that we are ever so subtlely beingled down the dark path where the shiny knives areby "modern" scholarship? Smiley

(moderator note)
  Agreed.  From my studies the "theophoric" name issue blasts "yahweh' out of the water, since the multi-syllable form must begin with "Yeh".

See an indepth discussion by Gerard Gertoux at..
   How to get the book
   .pdf file
  p.10 According to the Masoretic text, at this time all theophoric names which had a part of the Tetragram integrated at their beginning were pronounced without exception YeHÔ-. Consequently, because the Tetragram is obviously the ultimate theophoric name, its reading had to be Yehô-aH to be consistent with all other theophoric names (YHWH can be read YHW-H).

  Then please note p.53 and p.54 , which gives a lot of the theophoric names.  They always will BEGIN with Yeh, and such names also can END with Yah.  As far as I know, this is a 100% correlation, with of course Yah by itself being outside the two groups.

  The extra point Truf is making is that it also gives strong support for the vowels.  If
a) the yud vowel with YHWH matches that of other theorphoric names, and
b) is actually different from the vowels of adonai, then this is very strong evidence of their usage in pronounciation.
This can use a little more consideration and researching, and may be an   extremely significant point, often overlooked.


shalom, nana
19  Theology / Bible Study / Re:Jonah on: April 01, 2005, 11:28:39 PM
kjn wrote:
This is a problem, for as science changes, our interpretations are forced to also, and sometimes this causes an individual to lose faith in the Bible.

Yes, I would agree with that, unfortunately. It comes from not being well grounded in the Word and then being doubleminded - and that is a very slippery slope.  

Science and God have never mixed well - although there are times when it does support God's Word.  However; the peculiarness of being a follower of and a believer in Jesus understands that proof is not necessary to believe what God says  Grin

kjn wrote:
Yahweh (YHWH) is the proper name used for God in the Old Testament.  It is most commonly translated into English as 'Lord' or 'Lord God.'  Read the Creation stories.  You will notice that the first one refers to God as 'God' while the second refers to Him as 'Lord,' or 'Lord God.'  Yahweh and Jehovah are the same name, so perhaps you are more familiar with Jehovah.

Very interesting.  I am curious though, where you get your information from.  From what I understand, yahweh is what the caananites called their god.  And by looking at the two names, I don't see any similarities.  If memory serves me right, Jehovah is by far, the closer pronunciation of the tetragammatron.  The first "hey", I believe, is pronounced as yeh - not yah.  In English the "yeh" becomes "Jeh" due to some evolvement of the pronunciation over the centuries - that is a very loose explanation.  I have a link somewhere that explains it better.  I will see if I can find it.

oh - you never did tell me what translation you are using  Wink  thanx . . .

shalom, nana
20  Theology / Bible Study / Re:Jonah on: April 01, 2005, 07:19:39 PM
The bottom line is either you believe the Bible to be God's inspired Word and that He preserved it as He promised, or you don't Smiley  It really matters little what science proves or disproves - imho  Cool

By the way - what/who is "Yahweh"- I thought that was a pagan god - what translation did you quote from anyway?
21  Theology / Apologetics / Re:The Origin of Evil? on: March 21, 2005, 06:36:40 PM
God did create evil - His Word does not lie.  The word create in Isaiah 45 is the exact word that God uses in Genesis 1:1 to create [bara] the world.  Because people do not understand the Infinite and Awesome Majesty of God, they do not understand that God created and does indeed do evil.  The OT states verse after verse that God did evil, sends evil, sends evil spirits, repents of evil.

He created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden of Eden.  There is also plenty of evidence in the NT that God does evil as well.

God is Eternal - Forever.  He created ALL things, ALL concepts, ALL ideas.  He created evil for His purpose.  satan did not get an idea for evil himself.  satan cannot create, he can only imitate.  evil was present in the form of pride when satan [lucifer] was in heaven - he chose to act on it.  he became prideful and wanted to elevate himself over God.

God created satan [lucifer] - and God created evil.  As Isaiah 54 states - God created "the waster" to destroy.

A really good example of this is found in Job. When satan came before God to inflict Job - satan asked God to extend His [God's] hand and cause destruction to come upon Job.
[Job 1:10-12]

Another example is the creation of Adam and Eve.  God said it was good when He created them, yet He created them with the propensity to do evil - hence the warning not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.  When satan tempted them, that proclivity was acted upon and man sinned against God.

shalom, nana
22  Theology / Apologetics / Re:The Origin of Evil? on: March 10, 2005, 09:30:32 PM
God created evil and His Word tells us that He does evil:

Isaiah 45:5  I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6  That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.  7   I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Isaiah 54: 16Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.  15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. 16 Let our lord now command thy servants, [which are] before thee, to seek out a man, [who is] a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

1Sa 16:23 And it came to pass, when the [evil] spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

1Sa 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and [there was] a javelin in Saul's hand.

1Sa 19:9 And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with [his] hand.

Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
shalom, nana
23  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:WARNING: America's Christians are being DECEIVED! on: March 06, 2005, 10:29:18 PM
Jonathan Swift's "Gulliver's Travels" seems appropriate to use as an example in this discussion.

Just as Gulliver was tied down by 100's of tiny little ropes by a small nation of people, the Lilliputians, helpless in spite of his size against their intricate web, so too, the church is nothing more than a giant incased in deception, lethargy, being spiritually dead and embarrassingly blind to reality.  

Please understand that I am talking about the church at large, not about the body of Messiah - there is a major difference.

As Paul stated in Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

We forget that satan's agenda is to seek and destroy the plan of God by infiltrating and building his own kingdom.  his plans have been laid since eve took the first bite of the apple.  his motivation is pure hatred and evil and he will use every means possible to win - even though he knows his days are numbered.

I think the church is really quite unsuspecting of his invasion.  As Paul also stated, he comes masquerading as an angel of light.  This means that he will play the ends against the middle and cause division and strife unknowingly under the surface.  he is really good at twisting the Word of God, obviously so in his attempts to tempt Jesus.  So then, why have we not learned the lesson?

Instead we look to "Christian" leaders for spirituality instead of the Holy Spirit and God's Word,  and to a "christian" nation for salvation from the wiles of the devil.

satan's plans and invasion are in place and advancing in a flood, an all out attack against the church at large by holding it captive to his derisive and intricate tactics.  Those held in the churches and religious institutions are resting on their laurels, believing that by their so-called position in "Christ" they have no need to be prepared or forewarned of what is to come.

Jesus was clear.  There will be a great falling away, not a great revival.  We are now approaching it full force.  To email a million christians will not stop the flood.  It is too late.  The church has dragged its proverbial feet for too long.  She lays useless and archaic - exactly like Gulliver, unable to move or to be moved.

I shudder when I hear people commend our President as if he is God's gift to the American people and to the church.   It only takes a few seconds to research the religious background of Mr Bush.  He is a 33rd degree mason.  You cannot serve both satan and God.  He has sold his soul to the enemy and is a tool to bring into completion the plans and invasion of the enemy.  

It may be too late for America, but then God never instituted a nation to serve Him, He has called the few, the faithful - those contending for the faith - those who fear not what man can do to the body, but what satan can do to the soul.  Serving our King means being in the body of Messiah.  It is a spiritual body, not a physical one.  God knows who are His and they alone will do His will.

You cannot sound the alarm to a giant who is held captive by the enemy.  Instead of raging on about what the church is supposed to be doing - how about if we just do what God has called us to do as part of His body:  reach out in love to the lost, forgotten, lonely, depressed, broken, needy, unsaved and be the hands and feet of Jesus.  Give unto Ceaser what is his, and unto God what is His.

shalom, nana

24  Theology / Debate / Re:Freemasonry on: March 03, 2005, 04:55:37 PM
cool, robert - I would like to see both power points [whatever that is Smiley] hopefully it is in written form???  hope I am not sounding too ignorant Smiley

thanx and shalom, nana
25  Theology / Debate / Re:Freemasonry on: February 27, 2005, 12:41:41 PM
double post - sorry  Embarrassed
26  Theology / Debate / Re:Freemasonry on: February 27, 2005, 12:40:20 PM

I have gone to the effort to reproduce virtually the entire text of these 11/2 pages, from the bottom of page 562 to the top of page 564, so you can get the full flavor of this text, and so that I cannot be accused of "taking out of context".

Let us now go back to p. 562, at the beginning. We find that:

An unknown God created the Universe with His thought
Thought produced Spirit, who is the Mother of the Living
This Mother of the Living then produced Christos, who was both perfect and imperfect {While this seems contradictory, it is not, to the Pagan way of thinking. The world is conceived of both Positive and Negative Forces, equal and opposite.

 Therefore, Christos was both positive and negative in equal measure. Christos is also known as the Christ Consciousness, the heretical Gnostic invention, against which the early Christian Church struggled mightily. It literally means the Divine side of Jesus. Rather than Jesus being 100% God and 100% Man at the same time, as the Bible teaches,

Freemasonry teaches that Jesus was a human being only; at the time of the baptism in the River Jordan, the Christ Consciousness descended upon Jesus, making Him the Messiah, and then left Him at the cross. But, always, there are two distinct entities, Jesus Man and the Christ Consciousness Divinity. John identifies this separation of Jesus Man and His Godhood as the spirit of Antichrist.}
Then, Mother of the Living produced a Second, and inferior, wisdom, Sophia-Achamoth, who produced Ialdabaoth, after she had lost all of her Superior Wisdom. So, Ialdabaoth was definitely of an inferior rank.

Then, Ialdabaoth created seven angels, but still felt dependent upon his Mother, setting off a contest of wills between them, which was identified as the conflict between good and evil.
Then, the image of Ialdabaoth reflected upon matter and became the Serpent-Spirit, Satan the Evil Intelligence. Thus, Ialdaboath created Satan.

Ialdaboath then created Eve.

This created world then fell into the influence of evil
Then, God the unknown Supreme Being, sent the Christ Consciousness into this world in order to redeem it.
Then, despite his objections, Ialdabaoth was forced by his Mother to conceive Jesus in the womb of the Virgin. (Remember, Jesus' lineage, in this teaching, was of an Inferior line.
Note also that Ialdabaoth created both Jesus and Satan.
When Jesus was 30 years old, the Christ Consciousness and Wisdom descended into Jesus the man while He was being baptized in the River Jordan.

Ialdabaoth then turned upon Jesus The Christ and instigated his death on the cross.

At Jesus' death, the Christ Consciousness and Wisdom left Jesus' body and went back into the celestial regions.

The Christ Consciousness and Wisdom then restored Jesus to life, but gave him an ethereal body, not a physical one. (Jesus must have been a liar, because in Like 24:34-43, Jesus appeared to the disciples after His Resurrection; when the disciples thought they were seeing a spirit, not a fleshly body, Jesus emphatically stated that He was a body of "flesh and bones". He invited them to touch Him and then He ate fish, which a spirit could not do. This Freemason teaching makes Jesus a liar.)

Then, Jesus remained on earth 18 months in his celestial body, receiving further instruction from Wisdom, which he passed on to his disciples. (Ditto above discussion on the spirit "body".

This last segment about Jesus receiving instruction from Wisdom, is blasphemy, because Jesus, as God, knows everything from before He created the earth. He needs no instruction on any matter. Again, Jesus is blasphemed by making Him appear less than He is.)

Finally, after 18 months, Jesus arose to the region inhabited by Ialdabaoth, where he sat down at the right hand of Ialdabaoth, even though Ialdabaoth does not realize Jesus is sitting there. (This makes no sense, to think that a Superior Being as Ialdabaoth could not know that Jesus is sitting at his right hand on his throne!)
Jesus' function ever since has been to capture Souls of Light as they are purified by the Christos, the Christ Consciousness. (Again, Jesus is blasphemed, because this teaching takes the salvation of souls away from Jesus God, and places them in the Christ Consciousness.

Masonic teaching separates the physical, bodily Jesus from His Office of Messiah -- which they call Christ Consciousness -- making Jesus less than God. Where does it say that people will come who will try to separate Jesus' fleshly body from His God Nature? 1 John 4:3, states that those who try to deny that Jesus, the Messiah God, has come in the flesh is of the Antichrist. The original language literally means those people who would seek to separate Jesus God from the Jesus Man are of the Antichrist. This is exactly what this teaching does.)

It is difficult to list all the ways this Pagan teaching does damage to the Biblical account. During the above recounting of this teaching, I included some facts in parenthesis. But, I did not cover all the ground that needs to be covered concerning the blasphemy that this Masonic teaching does to Jesus Christ.

Whereas the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is equal to the Father and has coexisted with Him from Eternity Past, this Masonic teaching states that God created the Universe and then created other beings, culminating with Ialdabaoth. This Ialdaboath then created other beings, including Eve. Eve was created before Jesus, according to this spurious Masonic teaching! This teaching further denies that Jesus was the Creator of all things as John 1:3 states.

In this world, called Earth, conflict erupted between Ialdabaoth and his Mother, starting the conflict between "Good" and "Evil". The Bible states that the conflict between good and evil began when Satan, speaking through the serpent, deceived Eve, who then convinced Adam to sin against God.

Then, to "redeem" mankind and this earth, God sent the Christ Consciousness and his sister, Wisdom, to the earth to raise the inhabitants of the earth to a higher level of spiritual consciousness, thus putting an end to this conflict. The Bible states that Jesus had determined to go to the Cross before He ever created this world. Jesus was not killed by a superior outside enemy; rather, Jesus went to the Cross according to His own plan to redeem mankind.

With God and his Mother putting a lot of pressure on Ialdaboath to fix his world Ialdaboath somehow created Satan by "reflecting on his image". The Bible states that Satan was a created being, created by God.

Finally, Ialdabaoth "caused the man Jesus to be born of a Virgin"!! Ialdabaoth created both Satan and Jesus!! Does that make them brothers? Does this sound like Mormonism? This teaching that Ialdaboath created both Satan and Jesus does, indeed, make them brothers, another blasphemy against Jesus! Jesus is God, infinitely greater than Satan. This teaching makes them equal, but opposite, another common Pagan teaching.

When Jesus was being baptized in Jordan, the Christ Consciousness and his Sister, Wisdom, descended from heaven to earth, to overpower the man, Jesus, making him Messiah. This is simply another blasphemy against Jesus God. The Bible states that men can be possessed by a demon, who can overpower them, making them do things that no one in their right mind would do. This blasphemous smells of demonic possession, another slight against Jesus. No demon, or hosts of demons, can ever defeat Jesus Christ. As John said, "Greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world."

After reviewing these blasphemous teachings about Jesus Christ, I ask the question, "How can any knowledgeable Christian become a Mason?"

Perhaps you are a Mason that has not been exposed to these teachings of the 26th Degree, and had no idea these teachings existed. But, now you know, and you will know much more in coming weeks; so, what are you going to do now? Are you going to stay a Mason?


another look at masonry:

27  Theology / Debate / Re:Freemasonry on: February 27, 2005, 12:39:54 PM
Freemasonry is a rather nebuious and intriguing concept.  Surprisingly incepted by many as a "Christian ideal" or at the very least acceptable.  

Makes one wonder how in this age of internet access more Christians do not investigate before they jump into shark laden waters.  It only takes moments to surf google - how full of grace God is - He gives us these means to take the time to dig into all the theologies and doctrines floating around the church to measure up His Word - the only and ultimate source of Truth and Light.

Why do Christians refuse to study as a Berean and choose to drink poison just because it is labeled as freedom in the Holy Spirit and in the Name of Jesus   Huh

Freemasonry is based on the occult, it is also linked to Jewish mysticism or kabbalah.  It you want graphic links, I have them.  This one is user friendly  Grin

note:  Albert Pike is the "Father of Masonry" his book is considered the "Masonic Bible".

Now, let us consider Masonic teaching on Jesus Christ. I will be quoting from Albert Pike's monumental work, "Morals And Dogma of the Ancient And Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry," considered by many to be the absolute authority of Freemasonry. Pike systematically enumerates the specific doctrines of Degrees 1-32.

What does Freemasonry believe about Jesus Christ?

Albert Pike states the following doctrine concerning Jesus Christ in Chapter 26, or the 26th Degree, "Prince Of Mercy, or Scottish Trinitarian". On page 562-3, we see that the thought of a Supreme Being unknown to the Human race [God] produced the Universe which "produced the Spirit, the Mother of the Living, and Wisdom of God. Together with this Primitive Existence, Matter existed also ... eternal ..."

"Buthos and His Thought, uniting with Wisdom, made her fruitful by the Divine Light, and she produced a perfect and an imperfect being, Christos, and a Second and inferior Wisdom, Sophia-Achamoth, who falling into chaos remained entangled there, became enfeebled, and lost all knowledge of the Superior Wisdom that gave her birth. Communicating movement to chaos, she produced Ialdaboath, the Demiourgos, Agent of Material Creation ... Ialdabaoath produced an angel that was his image, and this a second, and son on in succession to the sixth after the Demiourgos ... Ialdabaoath, to become independent of his mother, and to pass for the Supreme Being, made the world, and man in his own image; and his mother caused the Spiritual principle to pass from him into man so made; and henceforward the contest between the Demiourgos and his mother, between light and darkness, good and evil, was concentrated in man."

"And the image of Ialdabaoth, reflected upon matter, became the Serpent-Spirit, Satan, the Evil Intelligence. Eve, created by Ialdabaoth, had by his Sons children that were angels like themselves. The Spiritual light was withdrawn from man by Sophia, and the world surrendered to the influence of evil; until the Spirit, urged by the entreaties of Wisdom, induced the Supreme Being to send Christos to redeem it. Compelled, despite himself, by his Mother, Ialdabaoth caused the man Jesus to be born of a Virgin; and the Celestial Savior, uniting with his Sister, Wisdom, descended through the regions of the seven angels ... and entered with his sister into the man Jesus at the baptism in Jordan."

"Ialdabaoth, finding that Jesus was destroying his empire and abolishing his worship, caused the Jews to hate and crucify Him; before which happened, Christos and Wisdom had ascended to the celestial regions. They restored Jesus to life and gave Him an ethereal body, in which He remained eighteen months on earth, and receiving from Wisdom the perfect knowledge {... Gnosis}, communicated it to a small number of His apostles, and then arose to the intermediate region inhabited by Ialdabaoth, where, unknown to him, He sits at his right hand, taking from him the Souls of Light purified by Christos. When nothing of the spiritual world shall remain subject to Ialdabaoth, the redemption will be accomplished, and the end of the world, the completion of the return of Light into the Plenitude, will occur."

28  Theology / General Theology / Re:The Role of the Church - offense or defense? on: February 20, 2005, 10:52:12 PM
oops - sorry cris - my questions were not aimed at you personally or critically  Embarrassed

I have met those who say I am not a Christian because I do not attend church.

And I agree heartily with #3  Grin

shalom, nana
29  Theology / General Theology / Re:The Role of the Church - offense or defense? on: February 20, 2005, 10:40:15 PM
felix wrote:
The Church needs to be rising and glorifying God. The Church being us means we are rising and becoming a glory to God. From where we have fallen short of the glory of God, we are returning to that same glory through Jesus Christ. "For all have fallen short of the glory of God" yet "while we were still sinners Christ died for us". We are made in the image of God but before we were saved that image was empty...now it is being filled by God, the life-giving spirit. "We will know Him for He will be among us and IN us!"

I do not believe the church is rising to anything, really.  It is stagnant, near death.  Jesus said there was to be a great falling away where even the elect were in danger.  This does not sound like becoming a glory to God.

The church is not a gathering of people.  It is a unity of Spirit. People who, all over the world, are spiritually mature, contending for the faith, serving God, loving God, reaching out to the lost and broken however God directs them.

I do not believe the institutionalized church is the gathering of the assembly.  I believe that gathering is not physical, but spiritual.  I can study God's Word with a like minded believer online and it is still the presence of Jesus and His Spirit there fully.

Americans really do not get it.  We have religious freedom.  The institutionalized church here is not the body of Messiah.  It is believers who are sold out to Him, committed, sacrificed and doing His work.  Yes, some of those are in the IC, but God is not impressed with our brick buildings.  He uses those whose hearts are bent towards Him.

shalom, nana

30  Theology / General Theology / Re:The Role of the Church - offense or defense? on: February 20, 2005, 10:30:18 PM
cris wrote:
When I read your post above, the first thought that came to mind was this: "Where two or more are gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst."

So why do christians then berate those who choose not to attend services in the brick building?

Is the "do not forsake the assembly" only in a church building? Who is the body of Messiah?
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