Pastor Roger....
I greatly respect you, and want you to know I was not hurt or angry, or upset. And, yes, I did say that when people say that we should not worry about it, they lie. I said I was refering to Christians who had said this to me, not anyone on this board. But perhaps I should have worded it differently, which is why I appologized after that for wording it that way.
And it was not because they disagree with me about the timing, but because they say we don't need to worry...that is what I said...and never mentioned them disagreeing with me about timing.
   As to what you said here...
There are many opinions on this and I personally will not go into mine as I believe that it is not something that we should argue about or that should cause division in the body of Christ.
I did not see that I was arguing, or trying to cause division in the body of Christ.....I was simply stating the Truth, and whether others agree or not...that is between them and God. But I must obey Him, and put forth that truth.
It does not bother me at all if others do not agree...that is the right our Father gave us, and I will respect that, and not get upset or angry when they do not. But I will not fail to obey Him, just for the sake of unity. He did not, and His disciples did not.
And please do not mistake 'passion for truth' with upset or anger, for I feel neither of those. I love and respect you and Tom very much, though I may not know you well...but I see your love for our Lord, and that is all I need to know and love you.
So I will put behind me this thread, as I hope others do, and let us fellowship in love for our Lord.
God bless us all....Roy.

It seems many things can be discussed here, except this.
The one person I respect the most here has said I am calling people liars, (I did not say that, as I tried to explain, and apoligized if not stated rightly), and the other says I should not argue, and cause division with this issue..(I did not know I was...I was just stating what I feel the Lord has shown me).
But I do HATE to debate with anyone, so I will post no more....

goodbye friends, and God bless you.

Dear brother Tom.
Bless you for your response.
I very much know that there are many other opinions, and that is fine. That does not bother me...I accepted that long ago.
The only thing I said was a lie, was to say that we don't need to worry about it. I think whether you belive it to be as I have stated, or another theory, we do need to take seriously those last 7 years, and be spiritually prepared for what may come.
I apologize if I did not state that as well as I should have.

Again, God bless you all as you seek Him with all your heart...Roy.

One little add-on here.
Some will say that it is not that important if we know the approximate time of the rapture, but I disagree....
First off, God saw to it that so much about it would be in His Word, so that must be so we would learn about it for a reason.
Second...I hear so many Christians saying almost the exact same thing; "we don't need to worry about it, cause we won't be here." That is a lie....we will be here for at least 3 1/2 years of those 7 years.
Those who say we will be raptured before the 7 years begin think the "seals" are part of God's wrath, and they are not. They keep the "scroll" that is the wrath of God sealed until it is time for His wrath to begin. Notice that after the 6th seal, it says, in Rev. 6:17, "for the great day of His wrath has come." (if I say the the 'time has come' for me to look for a job, it means I have not not looked yet, but the time to do so 'has come'.]. And after this 6th seal, we have chapter 7 in Rev. which has the sealing of the 144,000 jews, and the rapture of the church. Then the wrath begins when the 7th seal "is loosed", in chapter 8, and the wrath begins with the trumpets, and, according to Rev. 15:1, the bowls are "the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete."
What started in the trumpets, is "completed" in the 7 bowls.

I know you all have had many discussions on the last 7 years, and the time of the rapture. I will not go into ALL the scriptures about it, for I have a whole writing on it, which is too long to post here. But I would like to share a few scriptures to show that the Rapture is sometime after halfway through the 7 years, and not before the 7 years begin. Then you may believe, or not. To me, there can be no doubt that the following scriptures give the truth about it.

[Daniel 9:27]. "Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;" [7 years]."but in the middle of the week, [halfway through the 7 years], he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate."

[Matthew 24:15]. "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place."
You should be able to see that this "abomination of desolation" spoken of here by Jesus is what Daniel says will happen "in the middle of the week" (halfway through the 7 years).
And note that Jesus says "standing in the holy place."

[2 Thess. 2:1-4]. Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and ourgathering together to Him,(the rapture), we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either be spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."
The "Day of the Lord" refers to the wrath of God, in the trumpets and the bowls, but this says, "as if the day of Christ had come." And we can see, from the way Paul refers to "our gathering together to Him" that this is refering to the rapture. And, since this "gathering together to Him" will not occur until the antichrist steps into the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, as shown in verse 4, which Jesus spoke of as the "abomination of desolation....standing in the holy place", which He says was spoken of by Daniel the prophet,  and Daniel says this happens in "the middle of the week," then the rapture cannot take place until after the "middle of the week."  I could go on with 5 more pages showing you other scriptures to prove this, but I just ask you to pray, and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal this truth to you, and "lean not on your own understanding."

God bless you all......Roy.

Simply wonderful......
I have to say you have made my day.....it seems someone on this wonderful forum is always making my day.
Praise God for such great servants....
Thank you so much Pastor.

Thank you Kathy for your words.

Though I detest 'religion', I love the church. (the body of Christ).
And, though I try to avoid labels that seperate us, I too consider myself to be pentecostal...Not by religion, but by what I believe.
I would say so much, but I feel it would start a debate that I do not here wish to have. When I meet those who the Lord has led to me, who seek to understand about the baptism in the Holy Spirit, I freely share what I know, and what I myself have experienced. And I believe what the Lord has said, That we can do all that He did...People like Smith Wigglesworth are the best example that God is still working in His children, in the same way that He did His early disciples.
I have been annointed by the Holy Spirit, and pray in tongues, and have seen people instantly healed when prayed for.....and, just because Satan will try to imitate God when he comes as the antichrist, does not mean that God has stopped because of this.
If others believe differently, that is their right, and I will never judge them in any way for their way of believing, for I have no doubt that we believe that which is most important, which is that salvation is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
God bless you all.....Roy.

Wasn't sure where to ask this, so I put it here.

Tonight at Bible study a man there gave me a book called THE FINAL QUEST, by Rick Joyner.
As always, I prayed before reading it, and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to me any truth, and also to reveal any falsehoods....
Right away I felt uncomfortable with it. And as he spoke of getting prophetic visions and prophetic impressions while in a trance, I could read no more. It was too much like Edgar Casey, and others.
If anyone has knowledge about this man, the book, etc., please share them, that I may share them with this brother.
Thank you, and God bless you....Roy.

Here, Here...I love Kieth Green......
I too love "Oh Lord you're beautiful"....I also love the song where he says, "my flesh is tired of seeking God, but on my knees I'll stay".

I tell people that he sings a better sermon than most pastors.
So many times I just lay back and let his glorifying music wash over me, and lift me in worship.

Thank you for the answer....and praise our great Father...

Again Pastor, you are right on.

Worship is from the heart, not something of ritual and form. God looks at our heart, and when He sees true love for Him, and a desire to truly KNOW Him, He responds by fellowshiping with us...
"Draw near to God and He will draw near to you." [James 4:8].

I know it cost to run this forum. My question is....does it help the forum if we click on the advertisements?
If so, then I will do so often....or I can outright make a donation also.
Don't know if this is answered elsewhere, but I believe in supporting that which gives so much to me....

God bless you all.....Roy.

YOU TOUCHED ME

TODAY MY LORD YOU TOUCHED MY HEART,
BY SENDING ME A MAN.
WHO HAS A NEED AS GREAT AS MINE,
TO FIND OUT WHAT HE CAN.
HE WEPT AND CRIED AND PRAYED WITH ME,
AND THEN WE SHARED YOUR LOVE.
YOU CAME AND TOUCHED THE BOTH OF US,
AND BLESSED US FROM ABOVE.
I PRAISE YOUR HOLY NAME MY LORD,
AND WORSHIP WHO YOU ARE.
BUT MOST OF ALL MY LORD AND GOD,
YOU ARE MY GUIDING STAR.
FOR WHEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO,
OR WHICH WAY I SHOULD GO.
YOU BRING ME SOMEONE LIKE THIS MAN,
TO HELP ME FIND AND KNOW.

I met this man while camping for ten days in Oregon. I was
seeking God, and this man was out doing the same thing.

Figured out it was easier to type in notepad, then copy and paste here.

THE LUKEWARM HEART

I AM A CHRISTIAN, SAYS THE MAN,
BUT TELL ME NOT THE TRUTH.
FOR IF I REALLY KNOW THE LORD,
I'LL THEN BECOME UNCOUTH.
IT'S NOT THAT I DON'T LOVE THE LORD,
AND PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME.
IT'S JUST THAT I'VE GOT THINGS TO DO,
THAT AREN'T REALLY HIS GAME.
I GIVE SOME MONEY TO THE CHURCH,
AND HELP OUT WHEN I CAN.
SO WHY THE FUSS WHEN I INDULGE,
INTO THE THINGS OF MAN.
THEY MAY NOT BE THE BEST FOR ME,
OR GLORIFY THE LORD.
BUT JESUS SAID HE DIED FOR ME,
SO WHY SHOULD I BE BORED.

"So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor
hot, I will spew you out of my mouth." [Rev. 3:16]   

SEEK YE FIRST

WHEN JESUS SAID TO SEEK YE FIRST,
HE MEANT JUST WHAT HE SAID.
FOR WITHOUT LIFE IN HIS KINGDOM,
WE'LL LOOK TO SELF INSTEAD.
WE MUST DECIDE TO LET HIM RULE,
AND BE LORD OF OUR LIFE.
FOR IF SELF-RULE IS HOW WE LIVE,
WE'RE BOUND FOR SIN AND STRIFE.
A LIFE IN HIM, A LIFE IN SELF,
THIS SEEMS TO BE OUR CHOICE.
SO WILL YOU CHOOSE TO "SEEK YE FIRST",
THAT YOUR SOUL MIGHT REJOICE?

"He is a rewarder of them that diligently
seek him." [Hebrews 11:6]