I would like to inject here another line of thought. This debate is important! For the most part I like what Ray and Kirk do. As far as this debate goes we need to take a sober view of its outcome - potential outcome.

 We serve  the Creator - Yahweh (Father Son Holy Spirit or as I like to say -Abba Ben Rauch) who we understand to be logical. Therefore debate can bring about a ‘God exists’ conclusion revealing intelligence - power outside the “normal” of this life. However, to jump from a “Devine” being to the "God of Scripture" is not necessarily a one step connection. He Himself shows us evidence of this through His giving us revelation of Himself first in word - Scripture, then in deed - Jesus; Colossians 1:15-20 & 2:9.

 Let us say the debaters concede, understanding through the logic of persuasion that they must recognize a “god figure”. Which one? What claims are reality - truth - consistent with the just realized conclusion? There is more to Christian reality then the mere existence of Deity, after all Romans 1:19-20 was written to give evidence of that. Paul continues to explain glory exchange is the issue - god worship by those who understand that deity exists  but who have stopped “ asking seeking knocking” Matt.7:7 and settled for the glory of nature are ‘almost persuaded’ as King Agrippa indicated to Paul in Acts16:28. This still leaves them without Yahweh in this world outside the commonwealth, strangers, and without God, Eph.2:12 & Colo.1:9f.

 Will Ray convince those who will face him? That remains to be seen, however whatever the outcome entering into The Kingdom comes through the choice of commitment and not through persuasion alone. Prayer and more prayer for the souls who will hear will lay a foundation.

Pastor Art   

Thanks for the welcome, you all.

As we look across the landscape of the world, as many of you said, prayer becomes the response not as a last resort, I hope, but as the norm as we ponder our brothers and sisters. Paul reminds us that we experience the experiences of the whole Body weeping AND rejoicing, this I have not forgot. I think living in this country, (I am glad there are contributors beyond the American shores!) many forget or are not exposed to the weeping of His Body.  Oh, and yes I was talking about the Body not the US. Bless you guys.

Pastor Art

  The arrests in Xinjiang portray the expected treatment of believers as per Jesus, John 13:16, 15:18-20 and Peter 1st Peter 2:20-21. 

  What concerns me is ’our’ American reaction to these types of events. Clearly Jesus told us as a warning concerning these days, ’Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves…’ Matt.10:16-23. Somehow western Christians have an idea that these warnings that run throughout Scripture are not meant for us. Those who follow Jesus outside of the US expect the ’promises’ spoken about in the earlier mentioned Scriptures. As one who has been in China and the Middle East and looked into the eyes of those in those lands hearing their words and the reactions to such actions towards them are not get us out of here this is unfair, against my rights, or that type of repose - which is seen in the report. Yes, the suffering and injustice is real! However, the ’full’ Gospel gets preached in these lands (where this is happening the ’Church’ has the most growth and strength - wonder why?) and they understand fully the Master’s words if they treat Me in this way they will treat you this way also because no servant is greater then his Master… John 15:20.

  We live in a land of ’rights’ we claim Scripture’s ‘promises’ - somehow we seem to over look these! Before Christ’s return the whole Earth will rise up against us/ our time will come in this nation and no amount of appealing to ’rights’ or ’justice’ will change the coming future - ’And you will be hated by all on account of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.’ - Jesus. 

  Peter says just before explaining that Christ’s suffering is our example that we find favor with Yahweh if unjustly treated we ’bear up under the suffering’ 1st Peter 2:18- 19. He later says, ’… do not be surprised…, 1st Peter 4:12f. Our brothers and sisters outside of this country are not surprised, are we?

Pastor Art