[therefore]

by blackeyedpeas
By the way, I remember you also because of your unusual user name.

Hehe, I thought it was a common nick.

Thank you pastor Roger.
Why would the translators of the NIV not know the meaning of these Greek words? Surely them must be Biblical scholars in order to be entrusted to translate The Bible. You might say it is an "ok" translation of the word, but if you are correct about what it means, translating it to "Miracle" is downright misleading and wrong.

Notice here there are two similar sayings "which have been done in thee", in 21 it was "which were done in you". This is not speaking of something that was done to them but in them.

The text is talking about Capernaum, a city, and is saying the "mighty works" was done in you, meaning in the city. I.e. the mighty works were done in Capernaum.

Mat 14:2  And said unto his servants, This is John the Baptist; he is risen from the dead; and therefore mighty works do shew forth themselves in him.

Here Herod uses this word in regards to John the Baptist.  Why? Because the "mighty works" showed forth from "within Him". Not that He had done any physical miracles because John the Baptist did not perform any such physical miracles.

I believe this is Herod responding to a report he got about Jesus performing miracles. So Herod concludes that this must be John who are back from the dead, and therefore "mighty works shew forth from him". Whether John performed miracles while on earth is irrelevant because this is just a record of who Herod thought Jesus was and why He was able to perform miracles.

First of all, I can't believe you remember me. I haven't been here for ages and my postcount is only 19!

Are you saying that Jesus is not talking about the miracles He performed in those cities?
That is doubtful, in my opinion.

I heard another explanation on another forum. It goes like this:
Abraham is saying that someone who have heard the Moses and the prophets and does not repent will not repent even if they were to see a miracle.
Now, the people in the Israeli towns that Jesus condemns, had likely heard Moses and the prophets and didn't repent, and thus is consistent with what Abraham said. Tyre and Sidon (gentile cities) were likely not versed in the teachings of Moses and the prophets and so they hadn't rejected it, and Jesus is saying that they would repent if they saw His miracles. So it is consistent.

But as I was writing this I thought of another problem:
If miracles do not convince those that do not repent after learning Moses & prophets, why did Jesus even attempt the miracles there. Furthermore, why was He all like "O you didn't respond to my miracles you sinful cities" when you knew very well that they would reject it, both because of omniscience, but also because He knows that if they didn't respond to Moses & the prophets, they won't respond to signs and wonders. This is also evident in the desert wandering Israelites who saw many signs and wonders yet worshipped a golden calf.

BTW, your post count is huge, especially considering how small this forum is.

Is this s a contradiction or not? How can it be explained. I'm a Christian and need help on this matter:

Jesus says in Matthew 11:21

"Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Indicating that miracles can convince people, and make them turn to God.
But in this chis chapter in the Bible, Abraham seems to indicate that seeing miracles won't make people turn to God:

He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

 29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

 30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

 31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

What gives?

I see what you are saying, using the example with Jesus. But that was Jesus doing missionary work. I think it's great with missionary work/evangelism (or whatever word you prefer), but I believe in christian fellowship, to boost up, get the energy to meet the world and its ridicule again.

In RL (Real Life) I am in a cellgroup. We are just christians and we worship, pray, discuss, seek/receive advice, and have create good friendships and christian fellowship. Is that wrong? I don't think so.

And what I was thinking was something similar on the web. A forum where christians can meet and have fellowship. A forum where we can witness to atheists is of course a great idea, but not an original one, as every christian forums on the web are for atheists as well.

Wouldn't it be an idea to have a place where one could come when one didn't want to defend ones faith, but just meet and talk to other believers?

[Don't be unequally yoked with unbelievers, for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? Or what communion has light with darkness?]

Yoystick
God doesn't want us to isolate ourselves

Where do you get this from?
Certainly not from the Bible:

2Co 6:14 Don't be unequally yoked with unbelievers, for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? Or what communion has light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 What agreement has Christ with Belial? Or what portion has a believer with an unbeliever?
2Co 6:16 What agreement has a temple of God with idols? For you are a temple of the living God. Even as God said, "I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they will be my people."
2Co 6:17 Therefore, "'Come out from among them, And be separate,' says the Lord, 'Touch no unclean thing. I will receive you.

Have you all forgetten about this?
The same Lord you says this tells us to go out and mission. But there lies the difference: Christians are supposed to have fellowship among themselves uninterrupted and GO OUT INTO THE WORLD to bring the gospel to them.

Yoystick
We don't want to put out the picture that we're a bunch of sensitive snobs

Since when does "not wanting to be ridiculed" make you a sensitive snobb.

Dreamweaver
Also banning people from the site will allow Satan, to have a field day.

No, it wont, it will allow christians to have a field day. It will be a loss for Satan that he can no longer use his Atheists to break the spirits of christians, and create strife among them, which is typical for christian forums w/atheists.

ForrestHomie:
  So you consider Jahovahs Witnesses which claim that the Trinity does not exsist, which goes agenst the sites statment of faith.

Homie
The goal is a forum where christians can interact without constantly being mocked for their faith.

I don't see a problem with mormons and JW's as they don't come to christian forums with the intent of wrecking havoc, they come because they consider themselves christian. Wheter they are is a another debate I don't want to get into in this thread.

Most of the mocking of people's faith on this forum seems to come from other Christians.

I doubt this is true, if it is, it is truly sad.

[Prohibited material also includes promotion or defense of alternate lifestyles, other religions, atheism, humanism, or other beliefs that are contrary to the teachings of the Holy Bible.]

Athiests are not permitted to post their views on this forum.

Just report them to the moderator.

Forum Rules:

"...Disrespect, mockery, or blasphemy of Almighty God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Holy Bible, and Christianity are not permitted here. This would include the user name, anything in the user's profile, anything the user might post, and links to other sites that contain such material. Prohibited material obviously includes cursing, profanity, and "fill-in-the-blank" messages that suggest this material. Prohibited material also includes promotion or defense of alternate lifestyles, other religions, atheism, humanism, or other beliefs that are contrary to the teachings of the Holy Bible. Material of such types will be edited or deleted and the user may be banned. These and other rules posted by the Administrator of Christians Unite are final and not subject to debate...."

Grace and peace to you.

Thanks, it seems that this forum is already the forum of my suggestion, only the rules are not being enforced. We need to better ourselves at that.

Kris777, I have already adressed the issue you are posing several times

Ebia and Forrest:
The only ones banned would be those who obviously are not christians, they would reveal themselves by:
1. Blasphemous remarks/rants
2. Constantly refering to the Bible as "That stupid book" or "That old useless book"
3. Plainly saying they are not christian.

The goal is a forum where christians can interact without constantly being mocked for their faith.

Even if the forum was "banned" to 'others' - how you discern what is in someone's heart?  Just because they type in "I'm a Christian", are they?

I thought about that and should have included it in the 1st post, my mistake. Anyway, the answer is simple: The only ones banned would be those who obviously are not christians, they would reveal themselves by:
1. Blasphemous remarks/rants
2. Constantly refering to the Bible as "That stupid book" or "That old useless book"
3. Plainly saying they are not christian.

The goal is a forum where christians can interact without constantly being mocked for their faith.

As for the "problem" of the 1 % of Atheists who visits these christian forums because they are actually interested/seeking/curios/etc... , it is not a problem because:

Homie
The Atheists have plenty of christian forums to choose from, but the christians have not a single refuge, not a single sanctuary to get away from the mocking and seek advice and intelligent debate!

I am not creating a new christian doctrine, don't read more into my suggestion than it is. I am not suggesting every christian forum should ban atheists, but that there should be some forums that are only for christians, what is the problem with that?

If the result of my suggestion is that ONE less soul enters into the kingdom of God then burn my suggestion and let's never speak of it again. But I don't think that is the case, nor is it the intent.

[infidel]

Samuel, why the harsh attitude? I don't understand why a supposed brother would behave like this towards a fellow brother, I just don't get it.

Samuel
Oh and just a verse to finish this post

The tone through your post is not that of love. And if you have problems with my suggestion, why don't you give me some constructive criticism instead of trying to find something in my post to bash. What is the point of that? Why haven't you answered the very points of my argument instead of attacking use of words such as infidel (which is a viable expression by the way:
2Corinthians 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
1Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.) But let us not get caught up in details that have nothing to do with the suggestion I posed in the 1st post.

You all seem to think that starting ONE christian forum just for christians means the end of missionary/evangelism work, or that we should never interact with infidels, I have already explained several times that this is not the intent yet you persist on using it as an argument. When it clearly has been rebuked. Why? I don't see brothers coming togehter to find a good answer, I see people trying to insult my case simply because they don't agree with it, and clearly have problems explaining what the problem with my suggestion really is.

I expected such answers to my post, see:

I know many will say things such as:
1. Perhaps they come here seeking God and truth
2. We want to welcome everybody
3. Wouldn't that be a bit fundamentalist and undemocratic?
4. etc...

But if you would please read and reflect over what I've written you couldn't honestly have written that reply. Although you are well-meaning, you won't get away from this fact:

The Atheists have plenty of christian forums to choose from, but the christians have not a single refuge, not a single sanctuary to get away from the mocking and seek advice and intelligent debate!

And you know that what I am saying is supported by the Bible, I could dig up the verses but you probably know them anyhow. Be honest, do i sound like I am against missionary, don't you think I want to spread the word as well? You know this isn't about "keeeping the word to ourselves", it is about christians coming together without the darkness of atheists ruining the good athmosphere, causing strife and unhappiness.

God wants christians joining together without the influence of the infidels, he also wants us to mingle and be in the World with the infidels, bringing them the good news. These are not contradictory, because one can seek sanctuary with christians one day and be out in the world preaching or whatever the next day, you get it?  

Why are atheists drawn to these christian forums? If you are frequent posters in christians forums such as this I think you know the answer. 99.9% of the Atheists who visit christian forums come to mock us and God. I just want to find one, just one christian forum where I can converse and share with christian brethren and sisters without some atheist with his blasphemous statements, mocking God, and mocking/ridiculing us for believing in Him and His Word. Is this too much to ask?

I say we permanently ban every member who is not a christian. I know many will say things such as:
1. Perhaps they come here seeking God and truth
2. We want to welcome everybody
3. Wouldn't that be a bit fundamentalist and undemocratic?
4. etc...

To that I say, there are plenty of forums, actually every christian forum I've found accepts atheist posters. So where does that leave us? The Atheists have plenty of christian forums to choose from, but the christians have not a single refuge, not a single sanctuary to get away from the mocking and seek advice and intelligent debate!

Let this be forum the forum solely for christians. The first on the net! What do you say people?

Why are atheists drawn to these christian forums? If you are frequent posters in christians forums such as this I think you know the answer. 99.9% of the Atheists who visit christian forums come to mock us and God. I just want to find one, just one christian forum where I can converse and share with christian brethren and sisters without some atheist with his blasphemous statements, mocking God, and mocking/ridiculing us for believing in Him and His Word. Is this too much to ask?

I say we permanently ban every member who is not a christian. I know many will say things such as:
1. Perhaps they come here seeking God and truth
2. We want to welcome everybody
3. Wouldn't that be a bit fundamentalist and undemocratic?
4. etc...

To that I say, there are plenty of forums, actually every christian forum I've found accepts atheist posters. So where does that leave us? The Atheists have plenty of christian forums to choose from, but the christians have not a single refuge, not a single sanctuary to get away from the mocking and seek advice and intelligent debate!

Let this be forum the forum solely for christians. The first on the net! What do you say people?

Why are atheists drawn to these christian forums? I think bsmith24's post answers it all. I just want to find one, just one christian forum where I can converse and share with christian brethren and sisters without some atheist with his blasphemous statements, mocking God and us for believing in Him and His Word. Is this too much to ask?

I say we permanently ban every member who is not a christian. I know many will say things such as:
1. Perhaps they come here seeking God and truth
2. We want to welcome everybody
3. Wouldn't that be a bit fundamentalist and undemocratic?
4. etc...

To that I say, there are plenty of forums, actually every christian forum I've found accepts atheist posters. So where does that leave us? The Atheists have plenty of christian forums to choose from, but the christians have not a single refuge, not a single sanctuary to get away from the mocking!

Let this forum the forum solely for christians. The first on the net! What do you say people?

(I'll make this a seperate thread)

But you know, and I know and Paul knew that almost no one would follow his advice anyway. Besides, the thread starter isn't thinking of finding a mate because he fears mankind will die out due to low child birth rates, he is in it for the S-E-X