WOW,
         I started this thread and pretty much abandoned it. I haven't even finished reading the book of John. I have begun going to church with my husband and I've begun making myself available to help with the music, offered to help with the Easter baskets for the shut-ins, and helping some with the youth of the church. Anyway that is the update, family seems always on the edge of a crisis, but God is good, we make it through each event.
I know all that everyone has said, at least I know what I have read. I know what my heart longs for, but how do I get it from head knowledge to heart knowledge? I think maybe sometimes I make more out of this than is necessary. How nice it would be if God spoke to me so I could physically hear, or wrote a loving message on my wall, (although it would scare me to death). I have fought this infer complex for years, several years ago when was asking pretty much the same question I had a dream of a field. It was a wheat field that had no beginning or ending, the wheat was ripe, beautiful golden wheat as far as the eye could see with a beautiful blue shy overhead. Out of the sky reaching down was a pair of hand that I knew belonged to God. He very gently pulled up one stock of wheat, the roots were showing. God lovingly placed that wheat in a basket, stood it up and gently placed a  soft cloth around the expose roots. That wheat plant was me... I have never forgotten that dream I don't understand it all I knew when I woke up that he was showing me how much he loved me and yet I still ask who am I in Christ. I feel foolish, why should I ask such a thing when God has answered it once in a dream. I am loved, as in the dream out of million and millions of plants..... I have been reminded of that dream often lately. It is I who have fallen away not God. I know God loves me, now what is this nagging that I keep feeling ?
I feel as though God is waiting till I fight my way to the end of something, myself maybe.

Please stand with me in prayer, I already posted the letter below on my thread "Who I am in Christ,"  but wanted to post it here as well so that more prayers are sent to God's throne room. THANK YOU
musicllover

I wanted to sent a quick response to everyone, this family is under attack. I know it is because I am fighting to find who I am in Christ and what it is that is nagging me. Since my last post I haven't been able to do any reading or very little prayer, although there is a silent prayer on my lips all the time. Thursday of last week, my daughter had a major family problem and the law was called. She and her boyfriend are not married but live together and was planning a wedding. They have  a 13 month old and his father was trying to leave her and take the baby, she came home with the baby for a few days, but  moved back to his house yesterday. I wanted her to stay home but she has his child, she believe in God's eyes they are married and is trying to work things out with the father.

Because of that situation my son was kicked out (he lived there too, and the baby's father kicked him out for defending his sister) so he came back home too.

My second daughter has fought depression for a while is all of a sudden on a very slippery slope, major depression, tears, anger, and frustration.... I have called our doctor and she will she her tomorrow, I have also called the mental health center for an appt, she is spiralling down hill. I know that path I've been on it, so I am rushing to get her some help. 

My oldest boy just received word that he may go to the prison for non child support payments, even though his ex wife filed with his SS number and W-2's and received all the income tax that year.

When my youngest daughter doesn't appear under attack she hides in her room or stays at her grandma's to keep out of this mess.

I know where this attack comes from and I know why. I believe it is because I am fighting to regain my own spiritual footing so the devil is attacking my family. PLEASE PRAY for us. I will get back in the word and battle too, but like moses I am weak and need all your assistance and agreement in prayer. I will post this same letter on the prayer request board as well.

Jesus is Lord, even over all this.
musicllover

I wanted to sent a quick response to everyone, this family is under attack. I know it is because I am fighting to find who I am in Christ and what it is that is nagging me. Since my last post I haven't been able to do any reading or very little prayer, although there is a silent prayer on my lips all the time.

Thursday of last week, my daughter had a major family problem and the law was called. She and her boyfriend are not married but live together and was planning a wedding. They have  a 13 month old and his father was trying to leave her and take the baby, she came home with the baby for a few days, but moved back to his house yesterday. I wanted her to stay home but she has his child, she believe in God's eyes they are married and she is trying to work things out with the father.

Because of that situation my son was kicked out (he lived there too, and the baby's father kicked him out for defending his sister) so he came back home too.

My second daughter has fought depression for a while is all of a sudden on a very slippery slope, major depression, tears, anger, and frustration.... I have called our doctor and she will she her tomorrow, I have also called the mental health center for an appt, she is spiralling down hill. I know that path I've been on it, so I am rushing to get her some help. 

My oldest boy just received word that he may go to the prison for non child support payments, even though his ex wife filed with his SS number and W-2's and received all the income tax that year.

When my youngest daughter doesn't appear under attack she hides in her room or stays at her grandma's to keep out of this mess.

I know where this attack comes from and I know why. I believe it is because I am fighting to regain my own spiritual footing so the devil is attacking my family. PLEASE PRAY for us. I will get back in the word and battle too, but like moses I am weak and need all your assistance and agreement in prayer. I will post this same letter on the prayer request board as well.

Jesus is Lord, even over all this.
musicllover

I just made a copy of the scriptures at the beginning of the thread. I plan on using those during my quiet times as well. I am slowing gaining some of my old confidence back, as I read and pray each morning I know the Lord is with me, and helping me. I know this is not a process that I can do over night, (althought the Lord could make that happen too). I want to be able to give this all to God someday, and understand what I am to do with this nagging of the Holy Spirit that I am feeling. I have been studying the book of John, and will share the scriptures that I feel have spoken to me sometime this week.

I thank everyone for their prayers.

For a Biblical Marriage, both of you would be Christians, and JESUS CHRIST would be the HEAD over your home. JESUS CHRIST loved HIS CHURCH enough to be crucified and die on the Cross. The Bible tells us that your husband should love you like JESUS loves the Church, in other words enough to die for you. So, REAL love should be the basis of your marriage. Further:  1) Your husband should be in subjection to JESUS CHRIST;  2) You should be in subjection to your husband. There's many more details in the Holy Bible, but these are the basics of a Christian marriage using Bible principles. It works because there is a lot of LOVE here and CHRIST is in charge. If the marriage fails, it's because of the man, the woman, or both - NOT GOD.[/b]

Tom,
         I like the way you explained this, sadly this is what I feel lacks in my marriage. When we married we were neather one Christian. We eventually become Christians attending a denominational church but with a full gospel flair. I always loved the full gospel side of our church, he followed the denominational side. We had an awesome church that allowed the two ways of worship that blended into a wonderful balance. When we left town and had to find another home church our "Christian" marriage fell apart because I felt very strongly about raising our kids full gospel, but he didn't. He believes the Holy Spirit is real but he didn't want to attend a full gospel church where there is too much actions and yes sometimes emotions are shown. I've tried for most of our 26 year together to go to his church, had several problems with other persons in the church and just the whole political side of the church that I disagreed with. My husband who was president of the church at the time so he knew the recourse that we could take to fix some of the problems, but he allowed me to feel the brunt of all the negative stuff and it hurt me very deeply. Its just a long story I won't bother to go into. So here we are,  I am Christian, he is Christian, but we can't agree on what church to go to. I don't feel my husband loves me like Christ loves the church, because several times in the past that he didn't defend me, (even agreeing at home what was happening was wrong) and I don't submit to him because of it. Now he goes to church and I stay home.   

Donna,
         Welcome to united, it is a great place and I hope you find answers and fellowship here. The early walk in a Christians life can be so awesome but I also know that the devil will do what he can to mess that walk up. Make sure this man is not a wolf in sheep's clothing and only saying what he believes you want to here. I believe you are wise in breaking ties with him,.

If we could only make the world more black and white we might be better off, the old adage, when in doubt, don't, comes to mind. Simple,  wrong is wrong and right is right, but its the gray areas where most of use live. We try to make concession to the word of God to meet our needs, when we should be making conecession to our need to fit the word of God. Trying to stay out of the gray area is the safest, but not always the easiest. The rule book is the word of God, but not many like to read the rules and when we do, we don't like to play by them. I read it, but I don't like some of the rules either so I'm not preaching something I know nothing about my marriage is not a strong Christian marriage as you can see from the paragraph above.  If this man is a Christian it will show in his works such as...love of the Lord, honestly,forgiveness.. what are the fruits he is showing you? Are they the fruits of a changed (or changing) heart. or are they the furits of one who is desperate?

You are asking alot of questions so you do have some doubts, right now don't do anything, this is a gray area. Being a young Christian you don't have a good knowledge of the scriptures, but keep reading it does come. Let me say this and give you food for thought maybe what your feeling is the Holy Spirits guidance and warning to you.

Keep reading your bible and if you can write the Scriptures down that is speaking to you so you can read them again and again. Don't forget to pray for wisdom and guidance by the Holy Spirit. If God intends for you and this man to be together he will make it right and in his time.

I live in the gray area to much too, and I've been a Christian for over 20 years. So I'm talking to myself here too.

This isn't much  but I wanted to speak up and welcome you. God is guiding you this is a great forum and has wonderful wise moderators to help uphold the word.

Blessings,
muscllover

[Know that HE is able and HE has already made you worthy. Start slowly putting things together and wait on the LORD to help you and guide you. I think that forgiveness is the first key issue. The easiest part will be the absolute knowledge that you will be and have been forgiven. The hard part will be you forgiving others, but GOD is with you. Take all the time you need with GOD and go one step at a time with HIM. Remember that you can approach the Throne of Grace 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, so pray and pray some more.]

Hello Musicllover,

First, please know that we will all continue to pray for you.

I think that Pastor Roger has already hit the nail on the head. Pray for forgiveness and know that the Blood of JESUS on the CROSS is more than enough. Let GOD clear your conscience and know that HE will wash you white as snow. Pray for guidance, pray some more, and wait on the LORD. In the meantime, study HIS WORD, worship, praise HIM, and thank HIM. There doesn't need to be any hurry. Know that HE is able and HE has already made you worthy. Start slowly putting things together and wait on the LORD to help you and guide you. I think that forgiveness is the first key issue. The easiest part will be the absolute knowledge that you will be and have been forgiven. The hard part will be you forgiving others, but GOD is with you. Take all the time you need with GOD and go one step at a time with HIM. Remember that you can approach the Throne of Grace 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, so pray and pray some more.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Peter 1:3 NASB  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Tom,
       I feel very humbled when I read all that everyone has to say I wonder why I am struggling so badly. It is simply giving it to God, but I fight the sinful nature of man, not good enough, or I am perverted, I can't understanding how to let it go.  Man is the one who makes it difficult.  I feel embarrassed too, but I long for the fellowship.

I had to cut this short earlier to go pick up my computer, so I am back, feels nice to have my old computer back and in my own office area I can think and pray better in here. 

I have seen the debates on forgiveness, and it seems like a 10 headed monster, everyone has an opinion. I believe God will honor my efforts to forgive the people who abused me. I begun working on the forgiveness many years ago, and at times believe I have but then something come up an old memory or I happen to see one of them and wish a truck would run him over. I know I need to work a little more.  I think the hardest part is knowing God can forgive them too, I wouldn't want it any other way or it would nullify what Jesus did on the cross. But its hard knowing if an child molester asks for forgiveness he or she receives it.

Still, what of their victims? It leave those who have been abused to deal with the lasting affects. I wish sometimes my abusers would ask me for forgiveness, I honestly believe if they would have ever admitted to their wrong, it would be much easier to forgive, and it would validate me and help me stop second guessing myself all the time. I did have the opportunity when a women who was involved in my abuse came to me during a special service at church. I had went forward needing prayer, the minister took me aside and prayed for purity, without having known my past. Following the service, she came to me, she didn't say a word, she just hugged me, but I knew what she wanted, and I was able to give her the forgiveness she needed, mostly becuase I knew she was a vicitim too, she lived with these men they were her brothers. 

I will continue in my prayers and keep seeking for the right direction, sometime and I pray that it would be soon I can come to an understanding of all this. But I will wait on the Lord.

Thank you for listening and praying and giving me advice and direction. God bless you, and everyone else who is praying me through this.

Pastor,

I can see the confusion that you are dealing with, because you say that to some degree lack trust in Jesus and then later say that you do doubt all that God has done or will do. If there is no doubt in God then there should be no lack of trust in God.

Yes there is some confusions involved, but I do want to say that I do trust Jesus to see me through this, but there is a some questions that are as old as the earth itself that simply have no answers. Not that I expect anyone to be able to tell me, but, why does God allow such things to happen? Fallen man, satan roams the earth seeking those who he may devour, to steal kill and destroy, .... Still I don't find alot of comfort in them. I don't blame Jesus, and know he is my healer, but I just can't help the nagging questions.

The things that we go through even those that are negative are the things that mold us into who we are. Even the negative can be turned into positive by God. (i.e the ex-homosexual that is now witnessing to and helping homosexuals out of their life of sin.)

I hate how my past had anything to do with who I am today the negatives do affect me mostly because I haven't yet found any positives. Something has literally died on the inside of me. Still some part of me holds on to a fragment of what I understood too, Jesus was my King, but WHY what is all this about. So, Yes I guess I am confused about many things. No God doesn't promise us an easy life but good grief how much am I expected to endure. I had given my life to Jesus, prayed, and read daily, leader of a worship team, I believed and loved Jesus, I wanted him to help me with all this. Then even more of  life issues came against me, and stress killed me, a husband who doesn't seem to love me, rebellious teenagers drugs and trouble with the law, financial problems. My middle daughter was abused and her abuser was tried but acquitted. Then the monster from my past came back to life full force, and I had a mental break down. Eventually I stopped attending church, and have had no fellowship with Christians in the last four or five years. Yes I agree,this battle begins in pray... but I am broken, what or how do I pray. My marriage is still a mess, I have no life partner or someone to talk too, financial ruin, kids are getting older and thankfully wiser.... I had a mental break down not only physically, but in my home, and spiritually as well. I throw myself into my classes, I just finished four years of college and feel great about that, God did see me through these last four years, he hasn't forgotten me, but I want my relationship that I had with Jesus back only better. I want the negatives turned to positives but I feel like a baby kitten with no strength to stand. I am committed to finding my way back to Jesus.  I am studying the word, praying and singing. I hope to find what it is that God is trying to call me too. Possibly a ministry helping other rape survivors, I don't know yet. I must understand how God fits into all this. Get back where God can use me again.  

Realizing our sinful past and being ashamed of it is what brings us humbly to the Lord. Let me say here that you speak of abuse. We are not held accountable for the sinful acts of others that we had no control over. Yes, we should forgive those individuals as hard as it may be. This is a part of turning it over to the Lord for we maybe too weak to do so on our own. As the Lord says, when we are weak He is strong. This is when we realize the need for Him.

This is a normal response for someone that has suffered abuse at the hands of others. It is something that does need to be given over to the Lord. Difficult? Yes. The human nature in us continues to battle against this. This, too, is realizing the need for God as we are not capable to do so on our own.

I agree, letting God have the control and about forgiving my abusers, it is a day by day thing, I have my good days and my bad. Some of what I deal with affects many survivors of abuse, stopping the old recordings, there is a certain amount of brain washing that happens to victims of abuse. I know this but it doesn't stop the old self from saying well if you hadn't, or if you had. I trusted and loved ...I was told over and over it was OK, to trust.... and I did! The adult self wonders what in the world, WHY did I trust them. STUPID STUPID, it hard to stop that merry go round once it begins.  I then worry is any of this true, I went for years hiding the past that I am unsure of just what I do remember?  What a mess. What can God do with a mind and heart like this? No I am NOT capable of doing this alone, I come to the throne room, I beg for forgiveness, and ask for mercy even as I still don't understand all this.

I would really like to respond to more of your post but I need to get running. It is a busy day for me but know that I am and will be praying for you in this matter, that the Lord will help you in dealing with these things.

 

Thank you, I am learning so much from all the responses, at least I am reminded of all that I once believed. I still sound as though I am disagreeing but there is much I have to lay out on the table. I feel kinda bad too, I don't want to take up anyone time, or use this as a therapy session, I haven't discussed this with anyone for a long time. I have been very humbled by all the care I feel here, I want to get past this, but I also want to do in God timing. I pray God be glorified through each post.

Another Amen! Brother Jerry.

I would like to share a very old story about a broken pot.

  The Broken Pot 

A water bearer in India had two large pots, each hung on an end of a pole which he carried across his neck. One of the pots had a crack in it, and while the other pot was perfect and always delivered a full portion of water at the end of the long walk from the stream to the masters house, the cracked pot arrived only half full.

For a full two years this went on daily, with the bearer delivering only one and a half pots full of water in his masters house. Of course, the perfect pot was proud of its accomplishments, perfect to the end for which it was made. But the poor cracked pot was ashamed of its own imperfection, and miserable that it was able to accomplish only half of what it had been made to do. After two years of what it perceived to be a bitter failure, it spoke to the water bearer one day by the stream.

"I am ashamed of myself, and I want to apologize to you."
"Why?" asked the bearer. "What are you ashamed of?"

"I have been able, for these past two years, to deliver only half my load because this crack in my side causes water to leak out all the way back to your masters house. Because of my flaws, you have to do all of this work, and you don't get full value from your efforts." the pot said. The water bearer felt sorry for the old cracked pot, and in his compassion he said, "As we return to the masters house, I want you to notice the beautiful flowers along the path."

Indeed, as they went up the hill, the old cracked pot took notice of the sun warming the beautiful wild flowers on the side of the path, and this cheered it some. But at the end of the trail, it still felt bad because it had leaked out half its load, and so again the Pot apologized to the bearer for its failure.

The bearer said to the pot, "Did you notice that there were flowers only on your side of your path, but not on the other pots side? That's because I have always known about your flaw, and I took advantage of it. I planted flower seeds on your side of the path, and every day while we walk back from the stream, you've watered them. For two years I have been able to pick these beautiful flowers to decorate my masters table. Without you being just the way you are, he would not have this beauty to grace his house."

Each of us has our own unique flaws. We're all cracked pots. But if we will allow it, the Lord will use our flaws to grace His Father's table. In Gods great economy, nothing goes to waste. Don't be afraid of your flaws.

Acknowledge them, and you too can be the cause of beauty. Know that in our weakness your strength is made perfect.


2Co 12:9  And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10  Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

WOW, never thought about God still using me in the shape I am in. Kinda feel as though I could fill an ocean with the leaks I have. But to comform something that htis story does bring out, during my quiet time pray this morning I didn't know how to even begin. I ended up simply saying ok God here I am, this is it, me and all the ugly please make do. I then came here and read this. Maybe all the cracks in my vessel has more of a purpose than I have ever given thought too.  I have much to think about, to pray about. In all things God be glorified.

OK not only does the Lord know what you went through...He went through it with you. 

You have no idea what kind of horror this causes me, and yes I find some comfort too. But mostly I feel shame. I had a Christian therapist who had me place Jesus at my side as he had me revisit some of the abuse, I couldn't do it, it was like the whole world wouldn't have been big enough to hold that much shame and anger. Yet I know Jesus understands betrayal from those who one day called him savior and then screamed crucify him the next. I am afraid to place him there in my mind, but I long to feel his love, protection, and yes forgiveness. Even forgiveness for those who hurt me. I can't deny there are days that I hope they burn in hell (two are passed away). But then I ask for forgiveness for those thoughts, cause I'm no less sinner than they were.

That is easy.  You are supposed to be you. 

OH no,  you see I don't think I like "me" very much. There in lies the first questions, how do I know who I am in Christ? Cause if I can find that person then maybe I could like her. I could be the person God intended, not because of my past, but because created a brand new me. Not someone who was fake, or only going through the motions, what I seek is a dieing of the old me, and a rebirth of what God really intended for me to be. Maybe I am only fooling myself but God placed a call on my life before I was born, the abuse stole that, the devil used those I trusted to kill  who I was suppose to be. But God call has not been really stolen just side tracked for a while. I am fighting to retrieve it.

As PR had mentioned before it is a matter of letting go and letting God.  Letting go as in stop trying to control what happens.  Stop trying to make things happen.  Letting God is letting God take control of things, and let what God wants to happen, happen. 

This is truly one of the hardest things for people to do.  But yet it is also one of the easiest things to do.  Yeah I know that was as clear as mud.  But what I mean for that is that it is incredibly hard to actually do, but once you do it and look back you realize that it was easy to do, what made it difficult was you.  Our sinful nature has made it where we want to have control in our lives.  We want to think it was because of the work we have done that got us the job, we want to think that it was because of the work we have done that got us a date, or our wife, or our house, or whatever.  That is natural for that too happen.  But what we must realize is that it is ALL the work of God.  And then what we have to do is now listen for when He says to jump...we need to jump. 

ML if you remain true to God in your heart then He will reveal to you the directions He wants you to go.  But you have to be ready and willing to go where he points you.  If God puts it in your heart to sing to the bushpeople of Africa then I suggest that you get your sun screen and bug repellant and get ready for the bush.  ...

And I know that when I struggled with my faith I quit going to church, I stopped reading my Bible, and I quit praying.  When God finally broke me and humbled me I saw all of the times before that He had provided me an out.  One that would have been less painful and less humiliating...but I did not listen and then finally just before I did lose everything, I finally listened.   God led me to James and I started reading and weeping.  What verse broke me may do nothing for you because circumstances are different....but the point is do not quit reading your Bible, do not stop praying, and do not stop going to church.

I believe this is one of the hardest things I have ever done, allowing God control is hard for me, with out knowing it I have been a control freak all of my life. Partly because that was the way I felt safest, so again this is an area I have to let go of.

I am guilty of all that you have stated, I have prayed only some of the time,  not read enough, and stopped going to church. I absolutely need a good church, but my hands are tied in that area for the moment. I have no car to travel to church at the moment but soon I will have my own car (after I begin getting a pay check in Sept.). We have 3 churches to choose from, and one I will not attended since they believe they are the only one going to heaven. My husband attends a denominational church, but I don't go. Which is a very long story. A short version would be I am not liked there because I believe differently than they do, I am full gospel love to sing, pray, laying on of hands, and the signs of the Holy Spirit speaking in tongues. When I tried to attend the other church here in town it caused major problems with my already bad marriage because my kids wanted to attend with me and not my husband, either my kids were mad or my husband was mad. For a few years I attended a church away from here, but that was even harder on my marriage because I devoted most of my Sundays to my church, the kids wanted to go with me again, and my husband believes this is against scripture and the bible says you must attend church in the town you live in. (I haven't found the scripture he uses for that one) SO I stopped going there for several reasons, the church no longer exists. Now I go nowhere and know this is wrong.
When or where God calls I am willing that is all I can say, I can't imagine God calling me to Africa but hey I have seen him do such things, right now I must get back on my bigger and better spiritual feet.

ML you have the prayers of all of us here.  You are not alone, Jesus has been there with you all along and we are with you here now.

Dear heavenly Father we do pray for our sister.  Lord we know that you are the great Healer and the Mighty Comforter, and we ask that in the troubled times of our sister that she can feel your shoulder to cry upon if needed, and your warm embracing hug of reassurance.  Lord we lift her up to you as a sweet sister in need.  Lead her and guide her to what it is that you would have her to do in her life.  Let her feel your guidance in letting go of everything in her life and turning it over to you Lord.  Guide her through finding you and herself in your Word.  In Jesus name we pray.  Amen.

THANK YOU so much, I find great comfort in this prayer and knowing that others are praying for me.

I feel as though I have given you tons of excuses. I don't want to give the impression I am dodging my responsibilities I want to love God again, I want a relationship with my Jesus better than before.  I ask lots of questions and explain so much but I need the wise council, and direction that this board can give me since I have no one else. God is great and he is able to do all things, I am willing and want only God's will in my life. Forgive me for the times I seem difficult, I do not intend to sound unbelieving but I need so many answers.

Brother, I have tried to copy and answer below each quote, hope this works.
[/quote]
let me first say that you are not to wrap anything.  God has already taken your past and wrapped it with the blood of Jesus.  This is done.  There is nothing else to do with it as far as God is concerned. 
Galatians 1:13-15
For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, [/quote]

Yes, I understand what you are saying, it is not I but God who does the work of forgiveness through Jesus Christ, but it is still hard for me mentally to not only understand the concept but deal with the shame and lack of trust in myself and to some degree Jesus. I know what the word says and that makes it almost harder for me because I do know how forgiveness works. Its like having the knowledge of knowing how to walk but then ending up in a wheel chair, you still have the knowledge but lack the ability. I have in many way become a spiritual cripple, knowing what I know, but feeling powerless to do anything. YES Jesus does the work but at the same time don't I need to have myself in a better place spiritually and physically? Aside from a Damascus road conversion I feel I need to prepare because this is a spiritual battle. 

For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.  But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

You said that you have read of Paul.  These are two groups of Paul's writings that sum him up completely....and they sum every saved person up completely.  Paul accepted who he was as Saul.  He knew who he was and what he had done.  Persecution unlike anything ever seen since Christ.  But notice he does not doubt at all that God had taken all that he had done and washed it away.  It did not matter what Paul had already done in his life.  What mattered is what was Paul GOING to do with his new life.  In both of these verse groups what do we see as being the one who pulls the person from their sinful nature...God through Grace.  I know you know this, but it is a matter of trusting in this.

Paul is one of my favorite people of the scriptures, because he was as human and as sinful as any man today. I do not doubt all that God has done or will do, it is me I doubt? I want to be real in my faith, I do not want this to be a hollow battle, I do not want to simply go through the motions which is what I did for years before facing my past. I find myself wanting the spiritual renewing, the rebirth that John speaks about, but not trusting myself either. Crazy isn't it, wanting what is free for the taking but not trusting yourself enough to take it?

[It's obvious that Christians handle all kinds of problems differently with CHRIST. We also do better as we grow and mature in CHRIST. However, this doesn't hint that we won't have trials, problems, and crisis to face. We will just handle them better and better as we grow and mature in CHRIST because we aren't alone. GOD is with us and in us, so we don't have the same level of despair as those who are alone and lost. Many of a Christian's trials and troubles can actually be a good thing because they draw us closer to CHRIST and stronger in HIM. These are things that we have to learn, and GOD helps us if we pray and ask HIM to. After all, we have the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD living in our hearts as a comforter and guide. GOD doesn't force us to accept HIS help, but Christians with common sense will learn how to pray for HIS help and accept it with Thanksgiving.Christians all have a different quantity and quality of fellowship with GOD, and that's because of us - not GOD. Do we worship and praise GOD every day, or do we just come begging when we have trouble? Do we given GOD the proper place in our lives, or have we made HIM 2nd, 3rd, or worse in comparison to many other things. HE is ALMIGHTY GOD - OUR CREATOR, and HE'S already told us that there won't be any other gods (little "g") before HIM. Have we given HIM HIS rightful place as NUMBER ONE and the CORE OF OUR LIVES? If NOT, what should we expect? This is also part of our growing in the strength of CHRIST and maturing in HIM. BUT, this still doesn't hint that we won't have trials and problems to face. We will simply be stronger in CHRIST and better equipped to handle them because of HIS help.I hope this made some sense.]

Hello Musicllover,

There's a reason why the Holy Bible describes a war between the old man and the new man. First, we are still in the world, so the temptations of sin are all around us. Second, we are still in this corruptible body of flesh that is weak and susceptible to sin. Paul described a continuing war within himself, and there is a continuing war within all of us during this short life. We are capable of doing many things with the help of GOD, even during this short life. However, no Christians are able to totally conquer sin in this life.

GOD never promised Christians an easy time in this short life. In fact, he promised the opposite. There is no irony that we grow stronger in CHRIST with trials, trouble, illness, and the other problems that we will all face in this life. We will all also face death unless JESUS CHRIST comes for us first.

It's obvious that Christians handle all kinds of problems differently with CHRIST. We also do better as we grow and mature in CHRIST. However, this doesn't hint that we won't have trials, problems, and crisis to face. We will just handle them better and better as we grow and mature in CHRIST because we aren't alone. GOD is with us and in us, so we don't have the same level of despair as those who are alone and lost. Many of a Christian's trials and troubles can actually be a good thing because they draw us closer to CHRIST and stronger in HIM. These are things that we have to learn, and GOD helps us if we pray and ask HIM to. After all, we have the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD living in our hearts as a comforter and guide. GOD doesn't force us to accept HIS help, but Christians with common sense will learn how to pray for HIS help and accept it with Thanksgiving.

Christians all have a different quantity and quality of fellowship with GOD, and that's because of us - not GOD. Do we worship and praise GOD every day, or do we just come begging when we have trouble? Do we given GOD the proper place in our lives, or have we made HIM 2nd, 3rd, or worse in comparison to many other things. HE is ALMIGHTY GOD - OUR CREATOR, and HE'S already told us that there won't be any other gods (little "g") before HIM. Have we given HIM HIS rightful place as NUMBER ONE and the CORE OF OUR LIVES? If NOT, what should we expect? This is also part of our growing in the strength of CHRIST and maturing in HIM. BUT, this still doesn't hint that we won't have trials and problems to face. We will simply be stronger in CHRIST and better equipped to handle them because of HIS help.

I hope this made some sense.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 8:26-27 NASB  In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Tom,
        I couldn't agree more with the old man, new man, what you have said makes perfect sense. I am wrestling with my own sin and the sins of my past. Do you believe in generational curses? Because not only did the abuse come through step parents but also my own paternal grandfather, and I wonder is this what I am dealing with? YES, I  Praying for understanding, seeking forgiveness, seeking the Holy Spirits guidance. I am studying the book of John, and then I spend time singing playing my guitar or piano maybe both. I am giving God the time he needs to lead me, talk back to me through song or his word.This it is not like me usually I jump into something with both feet, but not this, this is too important to try to skip corners. Sadley, Its almost as if I have forgotten how to pray, when once I thought of myself as a prayer warrior, on my face, or with groanings....I'm not gotten there yet, but I am not going to stop either. I know God still listens. I  battle the condemnation of not attending church, not praying more in the last several years, not being a wife, my sins are many and some very personal. I get very angry when some of what I am dealing with isn't necessarily my sin but sin that was brought into my life by the perverison of others. But I have allowed their sins to affect my walk with the Lord. I wasn't steadfast, and have become weak...but again I know the scriptures. I have gotten beaten down in every area of my life, faith, family, finances, my marriage, my church... I want to pick the pieces up or maybe not even worry about that, but I do want to move on with Jesus as my center.

All too often we struggle with our past. We struggle with the idea that we may not be forgiven because of our past. We struggle with following the word of God. We struggle wanting a closer relationship with Christ. If we but stop struggling and let God work in and through us we could achieve all this and more. There is an old saying that does apply. "Let go and let God." We must let go of those things that are haunting us in our past, stop struggling with them and give them completely over to God. Let Him deal with those things for us.

When we struggle then we are actually trying to take care of those things ourselves instead of trusting in God to do as He says He will do. We bind our lives in those things.

How do we quit struggling and let God do the work? We turn to Him in prayer, handing those things we have struggled with over to Him, asking Him to take care of them, to heal our hurts and anguish. Then we let go of them.

 

Pastor Rogers,
I know all these things, I've read them or heard them and agree with them in part.  It isn't as simply as letting go and letting God. Don't take this the wrong way but is that a Scripture or just a cliche' because I don't understand it and I don't know how. I sound bitter, and resentful, and I don't want to be, I know prayer is the place to begin, and to continue in but saying then we let go... well makes it sound too easy. Isn't there more to it than simply letting go.... cause I think I've let go a million times. Of coarse your going to tell me I never really let it go or I wouldn't be dealing with it all again. Which may be be true, I can honestly say, letting God have my past, that is a hard call for me I have only come to understand it myself in the last few years. Its ugly, its not something you want your Lord to see, (even though he knows already) the idea of standing before God some day is unbarable and so shameful. 

I don't intend to argue or sound disbelieving but I have prayed, many many times.

I've not gotten to do alot with the scriptures you have offered, but I will, my PC is in the shop and when I get it out I can make a copy of them and begin looking them over each day. From head knowledge to heart knowledge.... from words on paper to word written on my very soul I want to know who or what I am suppose to be in Christ. I will not stop praying but there is something missing in all this.
 Jesus is Lord,

musiclover

Let me first state that I will be praying for you.
Let me also state that there is nothing in which "you" must weed through....there may be much that you and Jesus must weed through....cause if you go at with just an "I" in mind then you will fail.  But if you go at it with "we" in mind then you are bound to succeed.  There is but one thing in which we Christians should do with an "I" mentality...and that is go into prayer

Brother Jerry,
                You are absolutely right, never would I try to pray through this with out the leading of the Holy Spirit. I am finding it is one thing to know the scriptures that are written on paper and being able to apply them to myself. I believe this is something I have lacked for as long as I have been a Christian, going through the motions, attending every meeting, praying and reading, I have longed for, cried for and have had a heart felt desire to draw closer to Jesus, and I was never able to break through this unseen wall, it seems what I desire is only a stones throw away, so close but tearfully so far away.  I want victory, I want to know what it is to have a deeper relationship with Jesus after I faced the abuse. I want a relationship that has all my past exposed, the truth and not hidden or forgotten. So I am finding it very difficult to put into words and very hard to explain.  I'm not sure how to wrap my past around a forgiving God, part of this is forgiving my abusers, which I work on in bits and pieces every day, I suppose I will for the rest of my life. But now how do I take the ugly of the past and intermingle it with who I am suppose to be in Christ. Does this make sense? I have read the word, I know David did wrong things and was forgiven, Paul killed.... and on the list goes but each found forgiveness, and I want that too. I am just needing to work through this, and as much as I hate my past abuse I know it is part of who I am today, and it can be used by God to bring him glory. It is trying to figure out how all this comes into who I am in Christ, and just what am I suppose to do with it. I was called to a music ministry several years ago, like the parable of the talents I want to use this gift to glorify God. I want to walk in my calling, and not sure how this all comes together. I need so many things I DO NOT want to use God like a genie in a bottle either. I commit this to him.

A little something that may help answer this question.


Who are you in Christ? Who do you say you are? Do you say you’re a loser, defeated, a reject, unwanted? A failure? Who you really are is who God says you are. Who does God say you are? If you have given control of your life to Christ, this is who you are:

    * I am a child of God (John 1:12)
    * I have peace with God (Rom.5:1)
    * The Holy Spirit lives in me (1Cor.3:16)
    * I have access to God's wisdom (Jam.1:5)
    * I am helped by God (Heb.4:16)
    * I am reconciled to God (Rom.5:11)
    * I am not condemned by God (Rom.8:1)
    * I am justified (Rom.5:1)
    * I have Christ's righteousness (Romans 5:19; 2 Cor.5:21)
    * I am Christ's ambassador (2Cor.5:20)
    * I am completely forgiven (Col.1:14)
    * I am tenderly loved by God (Jer.31:3)
    * I am the sweet fragrance of Christ to God (2 Cor.2:15)
    * I am a temple in which God dwells (1 Cor.3:16)
    * I am blameless and beyond reproach (Col.1:22)
    * I am the salt of the earth (Matt.5:13)
    * I am the light of the world (Matt.5:14)
    * I am a branch on Christ's vine (John 15:1,5)
    * I am Christ's friend (John 15:5)
    * I am chosen by Christ to bear fruit (John 15:6)
    * I am a joint heir with Christ, sharing his inheritance with him (Rom. 8:17)
    * I am united to the Lord, one spirit with him (1 Cor.6:17)
    * I am a member of Christ's body (1 Cor.12:27)
    * I am a saint (Eph.1:1)
    * I am hidden with Christ in God (Col.3:3)
    * I am chosen by God, holy and dearly loved (Col.3:12)
    * I am a child of the light (1Thess.5:5)
    * I am holy, and I share in God's heavenly calling (Heb.3:1)
    * I am sanctified (Heb.2:11)
    * I am one of God's living stones, being built up in Christ as a spiritual house (1 Pet.2:5)
    * I am a member of a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession and created to sing his praises (1 Pet.2:9-10)
    * I am firmly rooted and built up in Christ (Col.2:7)
    * I am born of God, and the evil one cannot touch me (1 John 5:18)
    * I have the mind of Christ (1Cor.2:16)
    * I may approach God with boldness, freedom, and confidence (Eph.3:12)
    * I have been rescued from Satan's domain and transferred into the kingdom of Christ (Col.1:13)
    * I have been made complete in Christ (Col.2:10)
    * I have been given a spirit of power, love, and self-discipline (2 Tim.1:7)
    * I have been given great and precious promises by God (2Pet. 1:4)
    * My needs are met by God (Philip.4:19)
    * I am a prince (princess) in God's kingdom (John 1:12; 1 Tim.6:15)
    * I have been bought with a price, and I belong to God (1Cor.6:19,20)
    * I have been adopted as God's child (Eph.1:5)
    * I have direct access to God through the Holy Spirit (Eph.2:18)
    * I am assured that all things are working together for good (Rom.8:28)
    * I am free from any condemning charges against me (Rom.8:31f)
    * I cannot be separated from the love of God (Rom.8:35f)
    * I have been established, anointed, and sealed by God (2Cor.1:21,22)
    * I am confident that the good work that God has begun in me will be perfected (Philip.1:6)
    * I am a citizen of heaven (Philip.3:20)
    * I am a personal witness of Christ's (Acts 1:
    * I am God's coworker (2 Cor.6:1, 1 Cor.3:9)
    * I am seated with Christ in the heavenly realm (Eph.2:6)
    * I am God's workmanship (Eph.2:10)
    * I can do all things through Christ, who gives me the strength I need (Philip.4:13)

The following thread may also help:

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?topic=11745.0

Pastor Rogers,
                  Thanks for the Scriptures, right now I must think about how to respond.  I seem to have a hard time putting it all into words. I guess right now its something that I need to pray about. There is something going on inside of me, it simply makes me want to scream with frustration, because I know what the Scriptures say. 
I will continue to seek his will, and use the scriptures you have so generously given me. If you think about it pray that God can take away what he wants and put in what he needs as I go through this..., this  what ever this is. There is much I must weed through to work this out. 

Hello Musicllover,

This would be a very strange problem since you can post here but not in the thread that you want to.

Please record any errors completely when something like this happens. If it's an error from the forum software on the Christians Unite Server, it gives a line number, the error, and a suggestion. Please highlight the entire error, copy it, and paste it into a post like this one so we can properly notify ADMIN.

There are many other errors that originate in a person's browser or in the network connecting to Christians Unite. Some list errors and some don't. Any specific error message would help a lot in trying to determine the problem. Some errors are generated from busy networks that aren't part of the CU Server, and many errors are caused by configuration problems in the person's browser. I hope this helped some.




Sister, if this happens again, capture all the information you can and let us know which browser you are using.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 10:11 NASB  "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.

Ok, after I waited a bit I went back and everything was were it was suppose to be. A temporary clitch I hope, or it simply could be a case of forgetting how to post. I do that everyonce in a while, call it temporary insanity. Like walking into a room a forgetting what I came in there for. Hopefully it won't happen again, but if it does I'll try to see if it is something I'm doing or if my browser is having problems.
Thanks for the help.
musicllover