Not at all, as I believe, these are all simple obvious bible doctrines, nothing complicated, now if you say you believe the bible, then you should I would think believe them. If you think I have stated them wrong, then show me how the passages I have used are not in context
In His love and Grace,
David Winn

I don't tell you not to speak in tounges lol but if you are going to use the true gift and don't babble is all I ask
in his love and grace,
David Winn

[WOW]

WOW and I was worried that things might be made a mess while I was gone at work but it has turned out quite well and an excelent read after a few days of meaningless work
blessed in his love and grace,
David Winn

   "And I will put a division between my people and thy people (Exodus 8:23)."  Even from the very early pages of the Bible we find that there is a division between the people of God and the unsaved.

     Abraham, who trusted in the Lord as his Saviour, was asked to separate himself from his family and nation (Genesis 12:1-3).  Believers, by virtue of the fact that they are saved and are going to heaven, are separated from those unbelievers who are lost and going to hell.  Also, believers, in their Christian walk and life style, are to separate themselves from the unsaved.  II Corinthians 6:17 says, "Wherefore come out from among them and be ye separate."

     Amazing as it may sound, Jesus tells us in the Bible that the message that He brought to the earth would cause division.  We should not be surprised, therefore, because the Lord Jesus Christ has told us so.  Let us look at what Jesus said in Luke 12:51-52, "Suppose you that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.  The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother-in-law against the daughter-in-law, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law (Luke 12:51-53)."

     Wherever Jesus went, his message caused division and persecution.  In John 7:40-43 we read, "Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.  Others said, This is the Christ.  But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?  Hath not the Scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?  So there was a division among the people because of him."  Also we read in John 9:16, "And there was a division among them."   And again in John 10:19 we read, "There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.  And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?"

     Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven as He plainly stated in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

     The message of the gospel is the power of God unto salvation.  Paul tells us in Romans 1:16, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ; for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."  The gospel is like a two-edged sword.  For those who believe the gospel, they will be saved.  For those who reject the gospel, they will be lost.  John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."  For those who believe, they will have everlasting life.  For those who reject Christ, they will perish.  So as we have seen the message divides.  It divides between the saved and the lost; those that are going to heaven, from those that are going to hell; those who have life, from those who do not have life.

     I John 5:12 says, "He that hath the Son hath life, and He that hath not the Son of God hath not life."

     Jesus told His disciples, "Woe unto you when all men shall speak well of you! (Luke 6:26)."  We should not be surprised at the mixed reactions to the message of life and death.  The Apostle Paul says, "For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life.  And who is sufficient for these things (II Corinthians 2:15-16)?

     The Gospel message not only separates the lost from the saved, but also, sometimes, the saved from the unsaved:
1) The gospel divides the world into two groups: the saved and the lost.
2) The gospel also divides the Christians into two groups: those who will be faithful in the command to evangelize and those who oppose evangelization.

     As believers, we are told that we "shine as lights in the world; Holding forth the Word of Life (Philippians 2:15-16)."

     After Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt, a picture of the redemption or salvation of the nation, Moses had to ask this redeemed nation, "Who is on the LORD'S side?  Let him come unto me (Exodus 32:36)."  I believe the question still must be asked today of those who know the Lord as their Saviour.  Jesus Christ has commanded us to carry His message to a lost and dying world.  The Great Commission is "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature (Mark 16:15)."  Many believers want the benefits of the cross, but not the offence of the cross.

     "Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God (Philippians 1:27-28)."

     There is a division between those that preach the true gospel and those that preach a perverted or distorted gospel.  The subtlety in this is that it often times sounds like the true gospel but is not.  The test of the true gospel is grace.  If the message excludes grace or mingles works with grace as the means either of justification or sanctification, it is "another" gospel, and the preacher of it is under the anathema (curse) of God.  The Scriptures clearly say in Galatians 1:8-9, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.  As we said before, so say I again.  If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."  Therefore, the message that is perverted or distorted is accursed of God, and the one preaching that message is accursed of God.  Usually, those who have been taught a false gospel will persecute those that teach the pure gospel.  The Apostle Paul explained this in Galatians 5:11, "And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution?  Then is the offence of the cross ceased."  Paul says that the true message of the gospel of salvation apart from human works will bring about persecution, but to mingle works with the true gospel takes away the offense of the cross.  Therefore, we are urged in Scripture to stand on the Lord's side and separate ourselves from those that distort His word and change His message.

     Are you a believer?  If not, then trust Christ as your Saviour now, and He will give you eternal life.  As a believer, are you on the Lord's side?  If not, then align yourself with the precious message of the Lord Jesus Christ.  God will bless you for it.

I am not completely certain these gifts are gone it is just my best interpretation. But what I am certain of what the gift is and its purpose, and it is quite clear on this. There is no don't that this gift's purpose in to win the lost and this babble that is done in churches today is not it, Tell me what purpose it would serve to do this babble to an unsaved person He Will Laugh At You! Now if he were to be Russian and know that you do not speak russian and you were to suddenly speak a perfect russian with the specific dialect <dialectos> of the city he was from you will amaze him and demonstrate the awesome power of God, and I believe you would win him (well the Holy spirit would you know what I mean), now to those who had this gift they may demonstrate it in church but the verse he cited tells them to have a translator for the russian he speaks or what language he speak in. Because the Greeks and hebrews or whoever was there, probably would not understand. Not to mention they DID NOT have a complete bible even in their language but now I have over 130 bible translations that are complete in over 100 languages, the word is not hidden to other countries even close to as much as it was back then. There was an astronomical need back then for that gift, but the major problem today is not a lack of the word it is a lack of care, That lack of care God will not give them signs, thousands of people cames to see what Jesus was about, to see if he is what he said he is, They cared, today the people do not. Even Thomas Genuinely wanted to know today people are so concerned with aquiring & polishing their private space on the Titanic.

Eccesiastes 10:5a. There is [another] evil [which] I have seen under the sun, 6Folly is set in great dignity, and the rich are seated in [a] low place. 7I saw servants upon horses, and princes walking as servants upon the earth
Afflicted but still..
In his Love and Grace,
David Winn

You mis-use Hebrews 6 so I must say this first

Can a person who has been saved lose his salvation?  This question has been a perplexing one to many.  Maybe you have been questioning the genuineness of your salvation.  Are you really saved?  Are you really sure?

     Consider the alternative, that you could lose your salvation.  By virtue of the fact that you could lose it, would mean that keeping salvation would depend upon you efforts or actions.  In other words, a person who says that he can lose his salvation for whatever reason, is in reality saying that he is trusting in human works to save himself.  Look at Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace (mercy) are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is a gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast."  Salvation is not of works; therefore a person who is trusting in his works is not and will not be saved.  What are we saying?  Plainly stated: a person who says he can lose his salvation is not saved or he is thoroughly confused and lacks assurance of salvation.

     If you are not saved forever, then you are not saved.  Let me say it again.  If you are not saved forever, then you are not saved.

     Have you ever noticed how Bible commentaries skip difficult passages?  It can be very frustrating because usually a person buys a commentary to help them to understand a difficult passage.  Well, Hebrews 6:4-6 falls into that category.  Many times people skip over or ignore Hebrews 6 because it is difficult to understand.

     Often Hebrews 6:4-6 is misinterpreted to teach that a saved person can be lost after they have been saved.  To teach that a saved person could be lost would mean that you would contradict many clear passages that say the exact opposite.

     A good rule to remember when interpreting difficult passages in the Bible is as follows: Whenever you have a passage that is difficult to understand you never allow it to contradict a clear passage on the subject.  In other words, you should interpret a difficult passage in the light of clear passage.

     You should never contradict a "verily, verily" verse.  For example, Jesus said in John 6:47, "Verily, verily I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."  When Jesus said "verily, verily", He was saying "truthfully, truthfully".  Why?  Did Jesus ever lie?  The answer is NO!  Jesus did not and could not lie because He is God.  Titus 1:2 tells us that God cannot lie.  Jesus was simply saying, "This is a truth not to be passed over."  In John 6:47 we have a truth so important that if a person misses this truth he or she will go to hell for all eternity.  The secret of eternal life is no secret.  Jesus said plainly, "He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."  The only condition to this offer of EVERLASTING LIFE (NOT TEMPORARY LIFE) is BELIEF (TRUSTING IN CHRIST).  Don't contradict a clear verse like this one.  With this in mind, let's look at Hebrews 6:4-6.

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good Word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame."  Hebrews 6:4-6

     Notice that the passage is talking about those who are saved.  There are five things said about them that demonstrate this truth:

     First, "Those who were once enlightened" refers to a saved person or one who has seen "the light" of the Lord Jesus Christ.  The same word "enlightened" is translated "illuminated" in Hebrews 10:32 and speaks of a saved individual.

     Second, "tasted of the heavenly gift" refers to salvation.  Romans 6:23 says, "The gift of God is eternal life."  Ephesians 2:8 says that salvation "is the gift of God."  The word "tasted" is used in Hebrews 2:9 saying Christ "tasted death for every man."  We tasted of the heavenly gift in the same way Christ tasted death--that is, fully and completely.

     Third, "We're made partakers of the Holy Ghost."  The Bible teaches in Romans 8:9, "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."  In other words, if you don't have the Holy Spirit you are not saved.  The moment a person trusts Christ as Saviour he or she partakes of the Holy Spirit.  If you do not have the Holy Spirit, then you are unsaved.

     Fourth, "Tasted the good Word of God."  The Bible tells us in I Corinthians 2:14, "But the natural (unsaved) man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."  Only the saved man can taste of the Word of God.

     Fifth, "The powers of the world to come."  Only the born-again man has experienced the power of God.  Romans 1:16 says, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth."  A person who is born-again has experienced the power of God.

     "If they shall fall away" is not referring to salvation but it is referring to the "Christian life"!  Hebrews 6:1 tells us that the writer is speaking about things that accompany salvation.  Hebrews 6:1 tells us that the writer is talking about maturity in the Christian life and not about how to be saved.

     Well, what is Hebrews 6:6 talking about?  Verse six is simply stating to Hebrew (Jewish) believers who were used to a yearly sacrifice that it was impossible for them to be saved again because "by ONE offering He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified [the believers in Christ] (Hebrews 10:14)."  Hebrews 6:1 tells us that we cannot "lay again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God."

     If a believer falls away from serving the Lord, the procedure is not to become saved again.  That is impossible.  It is impossible to "renew" them again unto repentance (the change of mind necessary to accept Christ as Saviour).

     Hebrews 6:6 warns that if you try to become saved again all you do is crucify Jesus Christ afresh to yourself, thereby shaming Jesus Christ.

     The Bible does not teach that one must be born again and again and again, etc.  You can only be born-again once, never to be cast out (John 6:37) or lost (John 6:39).  Salvation is complete and final.  (Read John 5:24).

     The solution for a believer fallen away from service to the Lord is to start serving again.  We are encouraged by the words of Hebrews 6:10, that "God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love."  God will reward faithful service to him.  (See I Corinthians 15:58).

     God wants us to grow in knowledge of Him, to serve Him and to mature.

Lack in these areas does not mean that we have lost our salvation.  That is why it is impossible to get saved again (Hebrews 6:6), because it is impossible to lose salvation (Hebrews 13:5).  To try to become saved again (impossible) shames Jesus Christ who has saved us forever (John 6:47; Hebrews 9:12; 10:10; 10:12-14, 17, 18).  To serve Him again brings glory and honor to Him (John 12:24), and His blessing and reward is upon us (I Corinthians 15:58).

You speak of duty, we have many 'duties' the first of which is holiness to not sin you will not do this and you cannot do this. Which is what makes you need Christ in the first place your inability. when we trust in him to save us all our sins are forgiven not just sins we have already done, all our sins including our sins of doubt and unbelief. Our 'flesh is flesh' and will always fail this never changes but our eternal soul & spirit has been regenerated, and no corruption of the flesh will ever change the work God has done

Ecc. 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth  it , that men should fear before him.

Our salvation is not a work we do but a work God does
In his Love and Greatest Grace,
David Winn

I agree and I still use it occasionally for Clarence Larkins sketches and a few other things

"the church is sleepily purchasing any newest piece of rubbish being proffered."
Preach it Brother!

"Sloppy exegesis of scripture is becoming more and more accepted as the church rolls over and says, in effect, "Oh, don't get all worked up about it!"
Amen Brother!

I can agree and as well, entertainment whatever, and what was giving me I problem was I  everywhere I have seen it is in the translation section, as well as on the web sites where I got the verses from translation as well and what of someone checking out a bible for the first time turned off of church and they pick up the thing easiest to read and what is easiest for I man of the world, words of the world. the words of man far from inspired We all agree good stuff.

Romans 4:1-5 1Abraham was, humanly speaking, the founder of our Jewish nation. What were his experiences concerning this question of being saved by faith? 2Was it because of his good deeds that God accepted him? If so, he would have had something to boast about. But from God's point of view Abraham had no basis at all for pride. 3For the Scriptures tell us, "Abraham believed God, so God declared him to be righteous
New Living Translation <not a translation really but..>
seems to have retain far more of the original text and original wording and still has an entertaining <if that must be important no offence I'd say its Gods word people died so that we may hold it that is more than good enough for me> quality to it. And if you want Godly and entertaining read Pilgrims Progress or CS Lewis but I believe the Message takes it a bit too far, and that i have demonstrated this well. I also think a good study in Ecclesiates will reveal much more on this subject

Have you used the Install manager?

Set a new remote source

Site machine name
ftp.crosswire.org
Repository Directory
/pub/sword/raw/

Romans 4:1-5 Have not been changed and they clearly demonstrates salvation secondly
Roman 8:23For the wages* of sin is death; but the gift** of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.
*Op-so'-nee-on:rations or pay for a soldier
**Charidzomia:to grant a favor; to deliver or forgive freely

If you ask him if Christ was the saviour he should say yes, and when he does...
Isaiah 43:10-11; Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I  am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.  11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
The amusing thing about his is first verse 10 is where the JWs get their name and vs 11 demonstates both the need for the Trinity to be True, as well as the deity of Christ
The verses below also demonstrate this fact and are worthwile to your study

No Savior
Isaiah 43:11; Isaiah 45:21; Isaiah 49:26; Isaiah 60:16 Hosea 13:4; Titus 2:10; IITimothy 1:10; Jude 1:25; John 4:42
Isaiah 45:8 Acts 4:12 John 3:36 I&II Cor 4:4

TM
Psalms 8:5-Yet we've so narrowly missed being gods,
    bright with Eden's dawn light
KJV
Psalms 8:5-For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour

An obvious paraphase first second to me word for word translation is important, because I have doubt on if a translation can be inspired. And even if the translator trys his best to be indiffrent to his own opinions he is a man and will make mistakes a paraphase has all the more human involvement and so all the more chance for error.
TM
Romans 11:6-They're holding on, not because of what they think they're going to get out of it, but because they're convinced of God's grace and purpose in choosing them. If they were only thinking of their own immediate self-interest, they would have left long ago.
KJV
Romans 11:6-And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

You may ask then why I would use the KJV it has demonstrated its accuracy for 400 yrs. and the most resourses are avalible  for it because of its extrended use time.

one last example

Romans 4:1-5  1So how do we fit what we know of Abraham, our first father in the faith, into this new way of looking at things? 2If Abraham, by what he did for God, got God to approve him, he could certainly have taken credit for it. But the story we're given is a God-story, not an Abraham-story. 3What we read in Scripture is, "Abraham entered into what God was doing for him, and that was the turning point. He trusted God to set him right instead of trying to be right on his own."
    4If you're a hard worker and do a good job, you deserve your pay; we don't call your wages a gift. 5But if you see that the job is too big for you, that it's something only God can do, and you trust him to do it--you could never do it for yourself no matter how hard and long you worked--well, that trusting-him--to-do-it is what gets you set right with God, by God. Sheer gift.

Romans 4:1-5; What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness

You can see some very obvious alterations, if you have looked with an open mind. and alteration to the inspired original is <if one is being very careful> to be assumed as error. This psalms thing and romans 4 and these are the ONLY verses I even bothered to look up and the changes to the 'message' (lol little pun there) are quite obvious.
In his Love & Grace,
David Winn

More than Good to hear brother,
In his love and grace,
Good to hear that seem to be reasonably comon hear it is rare now a day
David Winn

Excuse me RBK but what is more important is that his word describes him and how he is and what he does, and even if an angel with wings as wide as constelations came down and wanted me to give me a new revelation I would would ask his for a scripture reference and if he would not give me one he is not to be trusted. and you are correct in that the holy spirit prays for us cause we don't know what we should pray for, but he does so in groanings WHICH CANNOT BE UTTERED not to mention that the special way God tends to speak to them or (so they believe) can usually be traced to be purely of emotion and emotions the bible says are from the heart (the 'center' of the flesh) and the heart is... Jer.17:9
and last but not least
PR.28:26He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
PR.18:2fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.
God 'speaking to you' starts at his word and I have never seen it there in special language
In his Love and Grace,
David Winn

Thank you, but I just hope that it is not just those that understand it that see this God bless!
in his love and grace,
David Winn