I heard about this from VOM. Those men died tragically, but lived valiantly.

Men (or in this case, boys) are viewed differently when in comes to rape. Because it doesn't hurt when boys are raped by women, society views it as harmless, even going as far as to imply these kids are 'lucky' to have their desires fulfilled.

There's an outrageous double standard applied to men and women that is degrading to both. If a woman kills a man, people ask what did he do to her; if a man kills a woman, he's a monster. If a woman aborts her child, she's practices her 'rights'; but if a man abandons his child, he's a dead beat. If a woman kills her child, she must be depressed or mentally disturbed but can not evil.

We have reduced the roles of women in our society to overgrown children who cannot take responsibility for our actions because we're women. How is that better than before the Suferage movement? There are good points made by classical feminism, but this Third Wave crap is sexist to men and offensive to women.

I, as of yet, have not had the privelege to study Hebrew, but I hope to have the opportunity to do so in the near future for the same reasons that you are studying it.

But God would protect His Book from such "alterations" from occuring, or at least make sure a true definition of Christianity still flourished somwhere. In the begining all Bible's were writen down by hand. Every time they were writen and re-writen a chance for "human" error could always occur. Yet, when looking from modern to ancient copies of the text the differences are so minute it begs to womder how. If not through Divine protection of the Word of God, then what? Luck? I don't honestly think a true Christian would believe that God left his Book's integrity and truth to luck. To go back to your original point, if The Bible was in essence re-writen hundreds of times before the printing press and we still honor it's words as the Binding Gospels, then why would a shift in language change a thing?

I don't think that was Acadia's orginal point at all. When dealing with languages, sometimes something as simple as a tense of a verb can change the meaning of a sentence. I do believe that the Bible, with a few deviations from the orginal text to compensate for different languages, is the True Word of God. You can see that through the application of the Bible to your life, through the development with your relationship with Christ, and the fact that the vast majority of Biblical text is the same. I think what his/her point was that the tone can change with language. I think to better get idea of what is trying to be said, especially regarding the letters to churches, you have to consider the author and the audience like in any work of literature.

Hello.  I am trying to get some sound, Biblical advice from a fellow Christian who is fairly knowledgeable in this area.  I recently (2 mo. ago) found out my husband cheated on me just a few days before we were married.  At the time we were neither one saved, had been living together for about a year and a half, and I was pregnant with his child.  I am having a difficult time dealing with this since we have been married for 7 years now and have 2 children together, and we have both become saved and very involved in a church since that time, and he never willingly confessed this to me.  I feel I have been betrayed in the worst way possible and lied to for 7 years.  I am wondering what my options are as a Christian as far as divorce.  We were not married at the time the infidelity occured, but were in a commited relationship and had created a life together, so I'm curious as to how this would fit into the "reasonable cause for divorce due to infidelity" thing, or if it would fit at all.  I am very hurt and don't know whether I can continue in this relationship.  My trust has been destroyed and I no longer feel that I even love my husband.  I thought he was different and it turns out that he was not.  Can anyone help please?  Thanks!

Maybe the answer is seperation, not divorce. He did violate the trust that you had together, not only through the affair but there the omitting of the infidelity. I think logistically you have the right to divorce, but that doesn't neccesarily mean you should. You have to weigh the pros and cons of this; you're not only going to be doing this yourself and your husband, you're taking away your children's family as they know it. Whatever you decide to do, their lives will be affected by it. You have every right to be hurt and your emotions are normal; your trust was betrayed every day until he told you the truth and that part of the foundation of your relationship was built on a lie. But marriage is about commitment between God, you, and your husband. Even when it was made under false pretenses, it is not to be taken lightly. Maybe your marriage is past the point of saving, but you have to at least make an effort to try to save. You owe it your children to be able to say in all honesty 'I did everything that I could'. Seek out martial counseling and exhaust every resource you have available to you before you divorce.

Maybe you need to put some space between you and your husband so that you can think about this more clearly. You just found out and the wound is still raw; don't do anything out of that pain that you may end up regretting for the rest of your life.

Hi Linda!

Welcome to the board. There's a lot of really nice people here.

Where did you go to school or is this a personal academic endeavor?

This is a very good post and I commend you for posting it!

This has always been a point of contention with myself and the American Church. How can you constantly commend the homosexual for being immoral and anti-God when some stats tell us that 1/3 of Christians watch porn. It's a stepping stone to so many dark areas of life because it takes something sacred and cheapens it.

Sister Tabitha,

I certainly think that prison systems have a responsibility to protect even child molesters, and they have systems in place to do that. Most systems call it protective custody, and it usually consists of separate lock-down areas.

I would first have to say that my first concern about child molesters is to stop them from victimizing any more children. This would be the top priority. Long term statistics indicate that once a child molester, always a child molester. Their crimes are especially gruesome because they ruin an entire life for many of their victims. So, I would obviously say that protection of the child molester is secondary to protecting innocent children from being victimized.

There are far too many children still being victimized, and child molesters are still being let out to add to their victim list. The system must be fixed and improved in this area. This is a much worse problem that protecting child molesters in prison. I think the only reasonable thought is to lock up first time child molesters for lengthy periods of time and repeat offenders forever. I have no problem with trying to make it safer for child molesters in prison, but let's make it safer for the innocent children first.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hebrews 13:20-21 ASV  Now the God of peace, who brought again from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep with the blood of an eternal covenant, even our Lord Jesus, make you perfect in every good thing to do his will, working in us that which is well-pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be the glory for ever and ever. Amen.

I completely agree with you, Tom. Protecting children and stopping an abuser from abusing is the top priority. The man that molested my sister had been doing it to other children for three decades. He continued to do it until he was brought up on trial for molesting a mental disabled boy; he got off because the man had the boy call him "Daddy". So when the boy was asked who had touched him, guess what he said? A family was torn apart and a monster was set free. He's now  in Florida, and I have no illusions that he is still molesting and raping children.  I'm convinced the best way to stop child molesters is to find abused children and treat them. I don't think our prison systems are an effective way to treat them because they are totally devoid of God and for someone to overcome such a repulsive action they must have Christ in their lives. Prisons are completely without mercy, especially for such as these that even sincere Christians have a hard time forgiving.

Selah Joy,

I have joy. It's taken a good amount of struggling to achieve it, but I found it. It's a beautiful song.

However, shouldn't we also be accountable to the laws of the land? Don't murderers and child molesters have to be accountable in front of the courts? Even if they are truely repentant, and never commit such horrible crimes ever again, even if the victims have forgiven them, they are still accountable to our laws.

On one hand I agree. In an ideal situation, people who break the law should be bound by the laws of the land, as you put it. Being truly repentant means that you are willing to make amends to give your victims peace. If that's admitting before a court of law that you committed a crime, then so be it. There's also the fear of relapsing into that way of life again, and don't the people who are raising their children around you have a right to know what you have done? Thinking about  Dylan and Shasta... Can you be absolutely sure that the person isn't manipulating you in order to weasle out of their responsibility? Ultimately, we have to forgive those who sin against us, but I don't think its wrong to ask for justice our loved ones and ourselves.

On the other hand, I have to respectfully disagree with Dreamweaver. Call me paranoid, but I don't trust the laws of this land. The laws and rulings are not just and the state's protection of prisoners is a joke. Especially in the case of a convicted child molestor, I have serious concerns over the safety for that person; rape and abuse is never justice, even with sexual predators. If the person was genuine in their apology and was starting on the right track, could a newfound faith stand that kind of trauma? Where is the line between justice and revenge? I don't know.  

Oh, boy. If Jesus isn't the Son of God, then what's the point of being a Christian? This attitude isn't exclusive to just the UCC. I've met a few Christians who believe in Christ, but are not willing to say that He is the only way. It undermines His entire sacrifice; if Buddha or Islam or just being a nice person can save you than why did Christ die? I think the people who hurt Christ the most are the ones that love Him and yet deny Him.

Tabitha, my sister, I am heart sick for the pain and evil you witnessed as a child. The sad thing  (besides the obvious) is that I hear the same type of stories from so many women. My wife and I are foster parents, and we have a young girl who was also molested, but by her own father. Her sister was molested also. The father killed himself after it all came out. He didn't have the courage to face the consequences.

 The girls still love him, and have forgiven him as best they can. Forgiveness is so powerful, and those who forgive are freed from the bonds of evil that are done against them, as you have pointed out Tabitha. I also feel that the perpetrators must face up to their acts. It's not OK to simply be forgiven. When men do such things they must face up to it.

I've heard stories of men who have admitted such acts in church to their pastors. They were truly repentant for deeds done when they were "younger" I say, it's good to get it out in the open, but it cannot stop there. True repentance dictates that these men must pay their debt to society when a crime such as that has been committed. Or is it enough for the victim to forgive?

Any thoughts?

I think it depends on how it comes out. In the case of the man that molested my sister, he only said he was sorry when the first (to our knowledge) children he victimized told someone. He never came forth with his crimes until it was already out in the open. That should be a first clue. I think in a lot of these cases, the people are genuinely sorry that they got caught or caused pain to children, but not for the action itself. I believe that child molestation become an addiction for the child molester, and they are in desperate need of psychological help. I believe that God will absolve you of all things if you admit that these things are in violation of God's law. I don't know if criminal actions should be taken against a person that admits to their crimes of their own freewill. But I do think that they have an obligation to the children and the children's parents to tell them what they did. A child may not remember that s/he was abused, but I guarantee that s/he knows something happened; the parents have a right know so that they can get the child the help that s/he needs.

The church also has an obligation to help the molester; I think that the vast majority of sexual predators are victims of sexual abuse themselves. They are basically injured children who have dug themselves so deep into sin that they do not, cannot, help themselves get out of it. Christ loves them too. And as a church we have the duty to make sure that they are not tempted to abuse again. After the man was forgiven, the organization did not tell alert the parents or the other facilty to what this man did and they did not restrict his activities with children, and as a result, he preyed on the children of other missionaries and the people he was supposed to be saving.  

Hey
As scary as it is, I think that we must ensure that we keep faith. I think that we will become persecuted and our lives as Christians will be far from easy.

On the majority of the planet, that is already a Gospel truth.  True Christianity is pretty much assisted suicide most places because you know that the people who you are trying to help will kill you, if not today, then tomorrow. Christ did it for you, so now you're doing it for Christ. Believe me, people, when the last days are here, the Holocaust will look like a holiday. Satan hates humanity because God loves us, but he despises Christians because we know how deeply and we love Him back.

I think the point of forgiving someone is not for them, but for you. When you do not forgive someone for something as horrible as abuse, rape, theft, or murder, you are constantly allowing yourself to be revictimized by that person. Pain usually comes with anger and bitterness. The beauty of forgiveness is not saying that you forget what the person did to you but you remember and chose to forgive them inspite of it. On the other hand, if you know someone is prone to stealing, I would put away the fine china until they rebuild your trust.  

Tabitha,

You could not have said this better!  Your point to "put away the fine china until they rebuild your trust" is so well said.  Your reasons for forgiving are well thought out too, but I would like to add another benefit to forgiving.  Parents who forgive rapists, murderers, slanderers, thiefs, or child abusers free their children from the curses of the past.  In other words, children don't have to grow up and live as adults just passing on the yucky stories or unforgiveness, or all the bitterness that develops with unforgiveness.  

By a parent's forgiveness, the family is free to heal and get on with freedom and joy in God's purpose.  So, we will give no more time for the evil in our lives to rule.  It is God who gets our thoughts.

Finally, I think it is Godly wisdom to "put away the fine china..."   Can you think of any verses where this principle is illustrated?  I don't know where the verses are, but when Jesus slipped out of the synagogue, He put distance between Him and the would-be murderers.  David certainly left his attackers, so did Tamar...any others?

God bless you!  It's always good to be here on CU and read your thoughts!    Selahjoy*

Thank you for your kind words. This entire thread is very provactive, in the very best use of the term.

I think the redemption of man is the largest example of having to rebuild the trust in a relationship in the Bible. The parable of the prodigal son is, I believe, a summary for long story of God and humanity. God's forgiveness has already been granted to us by the actions of Christ, but we have to acknowledge why He died before our sins are absolved. I have noticed when people say that they're sorry, especially in intimate relationships, what they mean is that they're sorry that they got caught or that their actions have hampered their pleasure or peace in some way.

I think forgiveness is very addictive; The greater you forgive, the more you want to forgive. Once you forgive the major things like a rape or a murder, the more you realize how freeing it is.

When I was two, I watched my sister be molested. The way the man was able to do it and keep her silence was by threatening my life and the rest of my family. Growing up, my sister was unable to lash out at the man who hurt her, so she would kick the crap out of me. The man managed to molest a disgusting amount of children because the man was a missionary, was very intelligent, and knew all the right things to say to sincere Christians. When he admitted what he did, they immediately forgave and forgot. He destroyed the childhoods of many people, but the thing that I have noticed as we have grown up is that the people who have forgiven him and what he has done are the most successful. After a very long time, I was able to forgive him and my sister for her actions; I'm at peace. My sister has never forgiven him, and it was destroyed her life.

Forgiveness isn't even about justice. The man has never been convicted in a court of law because most of his crimes happened in another country. It's about freeing yourself from the obligation to be intertwined with your abuser.

I completely agree with you, Bronzesnake. I think it is a humbling thought that it took so much to forgive my sins, and yet I find it hard to forgive the transgressions (compared with what Christ has forgiven me, the extremely minor transgressions).  

Well it is easy to forgive some people, people we like or admire, or people who are truly repentant and apologize.  So I am going off from the original posting some what.  No offense is meant to anyone here because I am not talking about that type of forgiveness that is easy.  

We must consider how difficult it is to forgive those who commit terrible crimes against the innocent and even ourselves.  We might have forgiven them before and they were not apologetic or even repentant.  They may have repeatedly sinned against us and God harming us in many ways.  Do these people deserve our forgiveness?  How do we forgive those who hurt us many many times and are not sorry for it?  I am talking about liars, thieves, rapists, murderers.  

I think the point of forgiving someone is not for them, but for you. When you do not forgive someone for something as horrible as abuse, rape, theft, or murder, you are constantly allowing yourself to be revictimized by that person. Pain usually comes with anger and bitterness. The beauty of forgiveness is not saying that you forget what the person did to you but you remember and chose to forgive them inspite of it. On the other hand, if you know someone is prone to stealing, I would put away the fine china until they rebuild your trust.  

I think your review is dead on, Sapphire. I don't see how they are going to make up some of the plot in the rest of the movies. Percy, for example, becomes a much more important figure in the fifth and sixth book, but is barely mentioned or seen in the first movie when his anal character is fairly established in the first book. The graphics on the first two movies were fairly basic but I think they have grown by leaps and bounds; Buckbeak's flight was breath-taking, quite a difference from the mountain troll in the first movie. I think it's my favorite so far.  

I agree with you to an extent, Getting_Real, but the Wicca that is protrayed by the media is not the real Wicca. The real Wicca was created in the 1950's and has nothing to do with magick unless it is intergrated with other pagan religions. I was a teen when Charmed, Buffy, and some movie title that escapes me at the moment was out. At the time I identified myself as a Wiccan (without the benefit of Harry Potter btw), but grew out of it when I realized how stupid and selfish the spells are. Spells work much better when there's a green screen and a grip boy behind them. Most intelligent people may experiment with Wicca, but won't stick with it because it's a silly religion.

I've read Stephen King and Dean Koontz before, and I do not think that there is anything wrong with it. I like Dean Koontz better because I think that he does use excessive profanity and violence as filler like King does. Don't get me wrong, I know Koontz's books have a lot of violence, but it's relevent to the plot. You obviously recognize that these elements are wrong, or you wouldn't be questioning it. As long as you are mature enough not to incorporate it into your life, I wouldn't worry about it.