wow, this is a very personal, very powerful thread

Tabitha,

my heart is touched by your story.  I too was abused.  The prior post which I wrote contains the things that I have done to seek to forgive.  As I was reading the posts, I was reminded of things forgiven and I think you are right, forgiving the harder ones, like rape and murder, help forgive the simpler.

I'd like to encourage you to consider what you might need to further heal.  Since I don't know you, my thoughts may not be relevant.  But when I was overwhelmed by the emotional pain and oppression caused from my past, I sought out Christian women who would pray for me.  I remember one time calling someone on the phone while in tears and just asking them to read the Bible to me.  I knew I was a baby asking for the milk of the word, but sometimes getting ministered to like that helped me.  (I still love it    After taking the painful memories to God over and over and over and over, I finally can honestly say that there is freedom in Jesus Christ.

Actually, I am amazed!     because I see God's priniciples working in my life in many areas and on many levels.  So I just cannot say enough good stuff about praying, praising God, and crying out to Him.  He has become so close to me.  It's amazing.  I feel like a changed woman.  I hope it is okay to testify like this.  I really am boasting in the Lord.  I always wanted closeness with God and I have found it in prayer, praise and worship--even in crying out in anguish--He is there.  Praise God!  

I hope that you can smile even though the thoughts of what happened may be painful.  You are never alone when abiding in the lifechanging word of God.  He lives in your praises.

Dreamweaver, there is a song sung by Michael John Poirier called "Love is Stronger."  Before I became a Christian, about ten years ago because I've been a Christian for six years, I heard him sing this song.  I loved it so much and it has always reminded me of my family in Texas.

They found that my nephew was murdered by drug dealers.  Since I don't live near Texas, I couldn't go with them, but they went to court and went through all that.

I know it was the love of Jesus that has kept my parents in Christ's mind and heart toward the murderers.  I wish I could send you the beautiful melody, but I can key in the lyrics.  Be blessed, Big Bro.

LOVE IS STRONGER
In the early hours, the telephone rang
shattering peaceful dreams
A precious life was taken in the night
police report said "Homicide"
Drunks at the wheel, theives who kill, a lover's fatal fight
leave the families of the victims, still reaching for the light

Why God, must there be such evil in this world?
Why God must there be such sorrow?

And the courtroom technicalities desecrate our memories
The family versus the accused
every lawyer has his job to do
While the anger rages how do we turn the other cheek?
How do we love despite the evil done?
How do we forgive the guilty one?

Why God, must there be such evil in this world?
Why God, must there be such sorrow?
Why God, must there be such evil in this world?
Why God, and how do we face tomorrow?

O MY grieving child, the choice is yours to make:
to forgive or lose everything to hate
Come and let me hold you through the anger and the pain

I'll show you love is stronger,
love will conquer,
love will never fail

Let ME give you grace to fight the evil in this world
strength to forgive and carry on
I'll hold you through the anger and the pain
and show you love is stronger,
love will conquer
love will never fail

Love is stronger
love will conquer
love will never fail
MY love is stronger...
MY love will conquer...MY love will never fail.

Dreamweaver, I feel I must tell you the songwriter lost his grandmother to murder.  I am confident that he wrote and sang the song from his experience and heartfelt forgiveness.

May we, all of us, learn to forgive.

selahjoy*

The Lone Ranger and Tonto went camping in the desert. After they got their tent all set up, both men fell sound asleep.

Some hours later, Tonto wakes the Lone Ranger and says, "Kemo Sabe, look towards sky, what you see?"

The Lone Ranger replies, "I see millions of stars."

"What that tell you?" asked Tonto.

The Lone Ranger ponders for a minute then says, "Astronomically speaking, it tells me there are millions of galaxies and potentially billions of planets. Astrologically, it tells me that Saturn is in Leo. Time wise, it appears to be approximately a quarter past three in the morning. Theologically, it's evident the Lord is all-powerful and we are small and insignificant. Meteorologically, it seems we will have a beautiful day tomorrow. What's it tell you, Tonto?"

Tonto is silent for a moment, then says, "Kemo Sabe, you dumber then buffalo.  Someone has stolen tent."

(My favorite today - )

I love it!  

i "can't wait" to have a funny to add to this thread!  

selahjoy*

hey brothers and sisters, can I add to this very long thread?

the debate is very interesting and it teaches me supporting evidence for my beliefs, and as i have been reading, it seems to me that to debate a point using offense leaves us outside the fulfillment of Jesus' request, that we be unified the way He and the Father are.  i have always been touched by the fact that Jesus even prayed for unity in John 17.  it seems important to me to see that our Lord cared so much about unity that he made sure His prayerful request got preserved for us to read.  (my favorite chapters in all the Bible are John 14-17 cuz those are Jesus' very words.  they tell us in a nutshell---of His love, purpose, and our instructions.)  i take a stand in hopes of always giving Jesus His heart's desire.  i am sure that each of you do too.  i mean, if He were standing in our home right now asking us to show compassion to everyone in this thread, i'm sure when we look into His eyes and see His miraculous love, and when we hear His voice that sounds like rushing water, we would be moved to compassion for every person.   all versions of the Bible ask us to be unified.  no matter what my point of view is, i pray to have one mind in Christ Jesus with each of you.  i hope you pray to have one mind in Christ Jesus with me because just think, that makes our God unified with us!

the Bible is an ancient book with hope.  hope to know the mysterious God who died for you and me.  hope to have more faith to believe in the one true God who then rose from the dead.  hope we get to live with Him forever, and hope we pray for each other letting the Holy Spirit in.

as for my opinion?  i read the NKJV.  read the NIV when I was a baby Christian (6 years ago).  grew up reading the KJV.  now, i am willing to compare and contrast any Bible (at least once), all the while asking the Holy Spirit for guidance.  what i really want is to learn the original languages of Greek and Hebrew, salted with a healthy dose of cultural, historical understanding so i can consider the context in which the writer wrote.
 
love ya, and am wondering what you think?
selahjoy*

Hey
How can you forgive the rapist?

Find all 100 or 200 verses in the Bible that tell about God's attributes.  Then go to a safe place either by yourself or with trusted brothers and sisters.  Once there, discipline yourself to tell God which of His attributes you like the best.  Be sure to tell Him how much you appreciate Him.  Sing love songs to Him too.  In Christian terms, this is called "praise and worship."

If your anger, pain, disgust, or any other negative emotion gets real strong, go ahead and tell God about it.  Yell it to Him if you want to.  You might even read some scripture to Him, for example, David's writings in Psalms about His would-be-murderers.  But don't stop at this!  You must force yourself to...

At some moment, pause from telling God how bad it is, and then force yourself to sing and pray love songs to Him.  This will probably be real difficult so expect resistance within your heart and thoughts.  Do it anyway.  The Bible refers to this as "the sacrifice of praise."  Keep doing this until God gives you the "peace that passes understanding."  He will do it!  And you will find a measure of forgiveness for the rapist.

Also, pray the rapist gets everything from God that you want from God.  For example, if you want salvation, ask God to save the rapist.  If you want peace between yourself and God, ask God to make peace with the rapist.  If you want to be protected from evil, pray God protects the rapist.  Pray God gives the rapist the chance to meet you in heaven and make total reconciliation with you.

Then, God will give you a deep compassion for others who are raped, and you will be Jesus' witness of Christian love.

One final step to total forgiveness, remember our sisters advice to "keep the fine china safe until you trust" the rapist.  Remember, forgiving the rapist and trusting the rapist are totally different.  Joseph ran from Potifer's wife.  Tamar never went to re-visit Amnon.  Jesus knew when to leave the presense of His enemy's too.

Love to all

Let me say this my friends - my brothers and sisters.
I have read through all these replies, and I was brought to tears. Forgiveness is very powerful.

Thank you for your prayers...!


 Bronzesnake

Brother Bronze!  With sincere respect, I say you are so welcome!  I have visited the CU site with hope, expectation, and sometimes, concern to "see" you again.  Sincerely, I am happy to hear from you.  So this means you must be feeling better, right?

your sister in Jesus,

I think the point of forgiving someone is not for them, but for you. When you do not forgive someone for something as horrible as abuse, rape, theft, or murder, you are constantly allowing yourself to be revictimized by that person. Pain usually comes with anger and bitterness. The beauty of forgiveness is not saying that you forget what the person did to you but you remember and chose to forgive them inspite of it. On the other hand, if you know someone is prone to stealing, I would put away the fine china until they rebuild your trust.  

Tabitha,

You could not have said this better!  Your point to "put away the fine china until they rebuild your trust" is so well said.  Your reasons for forgiving are well thought out too, but I would like to add another benefit to forgiving.  Parents who forgive rapists, murderers, slanderers, thiefs, or child abusers free their children from the curses of the past.  In other words, children don't have to grow up and live as adults just passing on the yucky stories or unforgiveness, or all the bitterness that develops with unforgiveness.  

By a parent's forgiveness, the family is free to heal and get on with freedom and joy in God's purpose.  So, we will give no more time for the evil in our lives to rule.  It is God who gets our thoughts.

Finally, I think it is Godly wisdom to "put away the fine china..."   Can you think of any verses where this principle is illustrated?  I don't know where the verses are, but when Jesus slipped out of the synagogue, He put distance between Him and the would-be murderers.  David certainly left his attackers, so did Tamar...any others?

God bless you!  It's always good to be here on CU and read your thoughts!    Selahjoy*

I like that idea, too. ............  

Hey Everyone,

I wish I had seen this in 2002, as PR said he saw it at that time.

I've had red/white/blue ribbon displayed for years, but will add to that the color red now.  Thank you everyone who started this and supports it.

God bless you.





 

 

Sounds good.

Yes it does sound good.  Even though it has been about two years since anyone wrote on this thread, are there any "healthy eaters" out there?  

selahjoy

Has anyone heard from Bronzesnake? How is he doing?

Bronze, if you're reading this, I just want to say that I pray for you.

  selahjoy

I don't know if this is the right board for this or not...

But I'm at the end of my rope. I need some prayers and advice. I'm a 13 year old girl (just so everyone knows).
About this time last year I came back to God after being, severly depressed and on the verge of killing myself. (This was after a 900 mile move from San Antonio, Texas) The very day I came back to God I found I no longer had feelings for my "boyfriend" (I guess you could call him that). Later that night I woke up hearing voices, telling me tha God hated me, that all my friends would desert me and that I was gay.
Since then I've been struggling with same-sex attractions.
I was in a panic. I talked to my mom about it a few days later, she said all the usuall parent stuff: "We'll love you no matter what. God loves you. You don't have to decide what you want to do right now".
And I was ready to accpet my new "identity". But something kept me from it. And I started looking for other answers. I read about people who had come out of the gay lifestyle and were now married. That seemed like a capital idea. So I prayed for God to make me striaght or get me out of this for about 5 months before anythig major happened. I started getting very close to God and decided to get baptized. I hardly had any (if at all) attraction during those two months. I was so happy.
But in the last month or so, I don't feel any conviction to change. All I hear are people saying I'm fine the way I am. And I don't want this at all. I'm going to high school this fall, and I need to have this sortted out by then.
I know God's word says homosexuality is wrong. It says the same thing about it as fornication and adlutery. "Flea sexual immorallity".
But I don't know how long I can go on anymore. I'm started to get depressed again. I can't find any hope of changing, anymore. And I want to so bad.
Can you all pray for me or give me any advice?









 

skatergirl,

I just happen to be off work today so I'm not usually on this website at this time.  I want to write you to say a couple of things.  First, I'm a mom.  My youngest is a 20 yr old skater, and he is a Christian now.  I'm telling you so you will know that I have talked to my kids along the years about stuff that is important to you.

Second, I would like to add to the advice you have heard.  Please don't stop asking for help.  After you read the ideas below, can you talk about them with your mom?  If you want more ideas to discuss with her, let me know.  I'm sure there are many more.

Focus on the Family is a ministry that listens and cares very much for all of us.  I think their phone number is 1-800-4FAMILY. I think that would translate to be 1-800-432-6459.  If you try it and it is wrong, let me know and I'll look it up online for you.  Focus on the Family has caring people at the phones to even pray with us on the phones if we ask them for it.  I remember calling once (more than once) when my skater son was on drugs and they prayed for us.  They also gave me (free!) helpful books, tapes, and advice to help!  My son is now a strong Christian!  I'm thankful to God, but also to others who prayed and helped in other ways too.  Do you think your mom would approve of you calling Focus on the Family?

Another thing that might really help is if you get an adult from within your Bible believing church to mentor you.  Mentors do what Jesus did with His disciples while He was on the earth.  They teach from the Bible, and they show by example how Christians are supposed to treat each other.  Mentors are very important.  Can you ask your mom who she would recommend?

I think PR was the other person who responded to your post.  Who ever it was mentioned you keep praying and keep reading the Bible.  Those are super important to do!  I will join in your prayers that you will be strong in the love and power of Jesus!

I Tim 1:7  God has not given a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind!

I Tim 1:13  Hold on tight to the sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Jesus!

Prayerfully,
selahjoy*

Do these people deserve our forgiveness?  How do we forgive those who hurt us many many times and are not sorry for it?  I am talking about liars, thieves, rapists, murderers.

Yes, this kind of forgiveness can be the hardest thing to do. We are to love our enemies as Jesus has loved us. It is through love that we fully understand what forgiveness is and how to forgive. Even though we may have sinned against God time and time again He is still willing to forgive us. This is true love.

This does not mean that we must continually subject ourselves to persecution by these sorts. In 2Tim 3 we are told to withdraw ourselves from such people. It does not say that hating them is ok just to withdraw from them.

Yes it is difficult to do this. If we give it to the Lord in all supplication and prayer it does become easier.

I agree with PR.  Some bad things have happened in my life so I speak from experience.  I believe it is Godly wisdom to stay away from those people.  Remember David who ran from his enemies, and even Jesus slipped out of the synagogues when the bad guys were after Him.  

Love in Jesus name,
*
Pray, pray, praise. ( I know it's hard, but it's Jesus' way...)

[as we forgive those]

"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us"

 These few word from the Lord's Prayer are so very important to our well being and salvation.

 This prayer is directly from Jesus. This prayer is not simply a compilation of rythmatic words, which come together at the end to form a poem/prayer. The words are carefully chosen to give us all specific instruction as to how we should live as Christians.

 Jesus says that He will forgive to the same standard as we forgive those who trespass against us. In other words, if we refuse to forgive, He will refuse to forgive us.

 I have come across some people throughout my life who are bitter, and have no room for forgiveness. They only have sarcasm and anger in their hearts. All their troubles are someone else fault. These people are not Christians and do not have Jesus within them.

 I have also come across "Christians" who refuse to forgive. Oh, sure, they'll forgive for little things, but when they feel wronged on what they consider a serious trespass, forget it!
They fly into a "Holy indignation" and nothing will melt icy the anger! These people are generally good people, but anger and refusal to forgive has blinded them. They can't see that it's God who they are offending with their refusal to forgive, and it will come back to bite them in the end.

 When we forgive, God heals us of any pain or anger, which is related to the specific problem. We should also be quick to ask for forgiveness, even when we believe we are not in the wrong. This kind of heart is a heart after Jesus!

 I've known, for example,divorced people in my own family who are angry and bitter for years after the divorce! All the troubles and problems are "his" fault! WRONG! It's your fault! because you refused to forgive and forget. Once you do forgive God will release you of all the darkness, anger, and bitterness that has cause so much pain and tears for so many years.

 My brother's and sisters. If have offended some of you here over the time that I've been here, I am truly sorry and I ask for your forgiveness. If I have felt offended by some here, I am publicly telling you that I forgive all.

 The reason for this post is due to a recent incident, which ended with me announcing that I was going to take a break from C.U. My health is not good at the moment - heck, it's not good at the best of times! so I figured a break would do me some good. So because of some issues here and my health I was ready to make the break - that is until I got a letter of apology from a poster here. I won't name the person, but I will say this much.

 That apology touched me deeply.

 My health is still rotten, but I've always managed to deal with that before. It has been angering me this time because it just never really stops, and this time around, it has lasted for quite a while. Just when I think it's beginning to break, it comes back with a fury. I have to get checked out for kidney stones again. I'm in a lot of pain, and laying down is agonizing! I have these stinking painkillers though, so I'll have to put up with the occasional head bang on the desk, when I nod off!

  You know, I have openly admitted right here on this forum that I have an anger and sarcasm problem, when confronted by aggressive or sarcastic posts. I struggle with it. So I was really concerned that this latest incident would develop into something ugly. My last post to ***** was a wee sampling of that, and I was really fighting to stay in control as I wrote that!

 So, I thought, this is not the way Jesus wants me to be, especially on a Christian forum where I profess to be a faithful, Bible believing Christian who takes God literal. I didn’t want to be a hypocrite or a bad example. So I thought I should take a break, to try and work it out with God, and at the same time, give myself a chance to relax and hopefully feel better.

 After I read this apology letter, all that foolish anger simply melted away! Jesus is at work here!

 So I'm going to hold off on my vacation. I still might be away at times; it depends on how my health is on any given day. This experience has rejuvenated me. I love my friends that I have met over the years here, and I look forward to making new friends. Some people here don't think much of my moderating here, but this is part of the reason for this entire post.

 Over the years I have asked some people here for forgiveness when I have offended, most have responded positively - one person told me basically to forget it! Another person simply ignored me, which really saddened me because we used to have a great relationship here, and I miss that relationship.

 I implore my brothers and sisters here to search their hearts. Jesus is there; He wants us to forgive each other. He wants us to ask for forgiveness. If we are truly Christians, then we must deny satan's virus of pride and anger the best we can and forgive each other.

 Am I going to be a perfect Christian from now on? No. Will I continue to be sarcastic in some of my posts? I pray that God helps me so I won't. Will I try harder control my temper and sarcasm? YES INDEED!!  

 All it took to turn a bad situation around was one simple apology! It didn't cost a penny. It didn't raise a sweat. It did make a gigantic difference.

 Thank you so much for the apology my friend! God has blessed us both because of it!

Bronze,

All I can say is...............your post made me cry .  You are a man after God's own heart.  I can't remember the bible verse now, but it's about "words" we speak, and how "one" word from another can soften or harden the heart.  I'm not good at being able to spit out chapters and verses.

I just pray the Holy Spirit will continue to guide and direct you.  Father God, through Your son Jesus Christ, I pray for healing for my brother, Bronze.  Oh Father, give him wisdom, courage, and strength.  Send those to him who could be of help.  I pray for his family too, Lord God.  Strengthen them, and just fill them all with Your love.  Amen.

I love you, Bronze!

Grace and peace,
cris

PS.........Agreed, we should ALL be praying "The Lord's Prayer" everyday.  Jesus said that this was how we were to pray when He was asked this question.

Brother Bronze,

I had no idea you were not feeling well!  But you are a saint to forgive and seek forgiveness!  Oh brother, I pray for your life, for every part of your life and your family to be built up and strengthened in the will of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!  Be healed in Jesus' name!!!

cris, I couldn't remember where the verse you mentioned came from so I looked it up.  Prov 15:1  "A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."  Thank you for the reminder.  That is a good word!  And thank you for your prayer for Bronze.  I agree with you in that!  

Oh God, we cry out to you our Abba Daddy Father!  You said we could come to you just as we are, simple, yet anointed children of the Father of Lights!  So Lord, we come to you believing Your authority in Jesus' name.  I ask you to have Your will in Bronze's family, in his health, in his life.  I also pray for the newbies in Christ like Seeking, and my sister RachelRH.  I pray for cris, PR, BEP, and all the people who visit and post on CU.  Father, in the name of Jesus, please unite us in You, Jesus.  Please take our earthly values and transform them, and us, to Your thoughts from above, to live, act, and think Your values!  What is in Your heart, Oh my God! that You would give up something of Your diety to die for me--to raise up and live forever--with an invitation for all of us to join you in eternity!  Oh Father, I pray that we at CU really do unite in the unity of Jesus, that we really do love our brothers and sisters who would differ in opinions.  Oh God, from those closest to us, who are under our very roofs, all the way around to the far reaches of the world, please pour out Your Holy Spirit upon us, Lord.  That Your will would be accomplished upon this earth, in the hearts and minds of those You call!  Thank You for Your word, for Your word is true!  Amen!

We love You, Jesus!

THIS REALLY SPEAKS TO ME ON EVERY LEVEL,I WANT TO
TAKE THIS MOMENT TO UNBURDEN MYSELF AND FORGIVE.
MAY IT BE MY FIRST STEP IN SEEKING THE LORD ,AMEN

Amen! Seeking,

I'm with you on this one, young sibling in the Lord!  

Forgiveness is an act of our will.  It need not be heartfelt to be begun.  The feelings will follow after the repetitious act (of forgiveness).  There are lots of verses to guide us, like the parable Jesus told of the forgiven slave who did not forgive his debtor, and the Lord's prayer itself speaks to forgiveness.  But my favorite scripture that has encouraged me, and entrenched me to strongly hold onto the precept of forgiveness is found in John 17.  Jesus prays for all of us; He thanks His Father for giving us to Him (can you imagine the love of Jesus as He was thankful for getting relationship with you and me?!), but then Jesus says that if we--his followers--would unite with one another the way He and the Father are one, then---and this is the clencher---then, and then, then, the world will know that the Father sent Jesus, that Jesus is God!  To me, this is the most powerful testimony in the whole world!  Super miracles of physical healing, spiritual manifestation, divine timing and accomplishment:  all these can be debated as to their origin--from whence do they come?  But to forgive like Jesus did, like He forgave Peter, Judas, Mary, Martha, his mom, all the disciples, even Ceasar and the theif on the cross.  Then there is Stephen who forgave the guys who were killing him with stones!  the list goes on...

These examples and teachings have greatly encouraged me to insist to my selfish soul that I pray for my enemies, and bless those who harm me, or ignore me, or reject me.  Oh, I've cried out to God for deliverance, protection, and vindication, just like David did in Ps 43, but still, God has called Christians to an incredible testimony of forgiveness.

Seeking, may we remain in the Word!  May we fall deeper in love with Jesus and wholeheartedly read the Bible as one would read a love-letter from their loving-one.  May you hear the word, read it, and meditate upon it every day, for the rhema, the dunamis, and the power of the written words that came from our Lord.  Those words will transform us into the likeness of Jesus Christ Himself.

None of us will be perfect as we live on this earth, but the more I keep Jesus' John 17:21 and vs 23 in the forefront of my mind, the more my heart goes out toward Jesus' agenda.  And I want to join Him and help Him reach His goals because He is my hero.  He essentially jumped in harm's way and took my spiritual demise for me, so that I won't have to spiritually die.

Instead, we get to live with Him forever because of His great forgiveness.  Oh I just want to praise God now!

Seeking, I hope and pray for your joy to be full in Jesus!

selahjoy*

RachelRH,

We've never "met" or even written so this feels a little funny to start off with an apology.  But *I'm sorry that I didn't write you this morning.

I thought about you though when I read ZakDar's morning devotional.  In it he mentioned "being pestered by...the devil...feeling lonely and unwanted..."  Immediately, I thought of you and hoped you would read his post.  I too had been discouraged, but feel that in just the past 24 hours, my soul has been lifted.  I pray that you are encouraged too.  Yesterday, a couple of very kind people from CU wrote me and it encouraged me greatly.  So I hope you accept my apology for not writing sooner.  Also, let us stay united in Jesus to pray for God's will.

Since it is so late right now, I'll be brief but want to tell you that Monday night, I was thinking real loud , is that possible  and my thoughts were "OH God!" over and over, so I left my friend's house and came home to be with God.  Then, this morning, ZakDar posted Romans 8.  my favorite verse, which he also apparently especially appreciated was ver 15, in which we are told that we are adopted and we get to cry out to our Abba (Daddy)!  If that were not good enough, I then saw a post called something like "Cry Out."  I read it and it was very encouraging.

But when all is said, I must admit that it is the prayers and responses sent to me, the answers to questions, the thoughts, opinions expressed, prayers requested and promised, all these and more I'm sure make a world of difference in our lives.  so, RachelRH, it is my sincere delite to "meet" you and as I go off to sleep now, you will be in my final thoughts and prayers for this day.

See ya later,  
selahjoy

[do]

SelahJoy,

There is a movement today that is teaching this message. Some take it so far as to say that all will go to heaven for this reason.

The Bible is quite clear in its message of the Gospel and what we must do to be saved.

Joh 3:7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Rom 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.  

Luk 13:5  I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

1Jo 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I've heard of that teaching but I don't think that is the stand this preacher takes.  He is RC Schroll (spelling?).  Perhaps his overall message is that of the sovereignty of God, His works, not ours, that saves.  I would agree with that.

However, the Bible has passages both Old Testament and New in which people are exhorted to do something, be it confess by mouth, or sell all their stuff, or walk away from something and follow Jesus...

My point is that each person must make choices.  That doesn't mean that he deserves it anymore than the one who declines it.  For example, the two thieves on the cross.  They both deserved eternal separation from God,  but one accepted the free gift of God and the other one didn't.

I know it is difficult for works-based Christians to weed out the works mentality (I was raised in a works based religion with assigned days, and various rituals to observe regularly, and worst of all, if you sinned two minutes ago, you are now damned to hell--until ten minutes from now when you repent...which gets you salvation until you sin the next time...at which point you better repent real fast or you'll go to hell until you repent again...

That kind of theology is not Biblical.  I believe a closer-to-God's-heart way of rightly dividing His word is to understand that He desires all to come to Him.  He knows all will not.  Those who attain eternal relationship with God have a heart transplant.  They do something; they confess Jesus as God, Lord of all creation.  They hunger to know Him better which leads them to learn from the ancient writings we call the Bible.

When I heard RCS preach, I got a sense of awe and humility before the soveriegn God.  I appreciate that realization and want to meditate upon His word and receive all that God wants me to  know.

RCS pointed out that God chose Jacob, not Esau.  To me, that is an example of many other "why" and "why not" questions that we could ask our Lord.  But to me, this is more an example of the sovereignty of God in relation to one becoming this and another becoming that.  After all, we can't all be Esther or Joseph.  We can't all be called like Samson or Moses were, but we are all called to be His elected saved ones.  I believe even Pharoah could have been saved, if he had chosen it.  However, once he hardened his heart a number of times, God turned him over to his evil, carnal thinking.

Theology sure can get thick, can't it?  I prefer to remember my testimony.  I came to accept Jesus as God and left my future up to Him.  Because of the way I was raised, I figured if He felt heaven would be a better place without me, that was His perogotive.  However, I asked Him to let me get to be as close to Him as possible that day, which has turned into today, and right now.  Several years into my relationship with the Lord, a sister was praying for me and she felt Psalm 23 was for me.  She expounded upon it.  Later that same week, someone else prayed for me and she used the same text and said much the same thing!  I was touched, and the words, "...will dwell in the house of the Lord forever" stood out to me.  Tears fell down.  I didn't realize it up to that point, but apparently I had not known the assurance that He wanted me to live with Him forever in heaven.  But at that time, I for the first time, had a testimony of the fact that He invited me to the best family reunion ever!  I was overwhelmed, and happy to accept his invitation!

I don't know the literal theology that fits, but that's my testimony.  Now, I pray for others to know Him too.  By the way, THAT, I believe, is the most powerful testimony of Christianity in the world!  That Jesus can take humans who are innately selfish and make them look outward at others.  Further, that He can take offended souls and convince them to refuse to be offended, but to love others--even their enemies!  What an awesome religion!  

Thanks for reading, and if you know stuff that I should, I am so open to you, whether you are PR or whoeveryouare, please write to me.  Thank you,
selahjoy*