[I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei]

Global warming is a myth. It has been proven that man made CO2 levels are not causing the earth to warm. The "records" that are used to substantiate it are those given by NASA which have been found to be in error and are in fact substantiating a cooling period instead. The threat posed by an islamic fifth column is real, not imagined by those that want power and money.

I do believe that you are here for one purpose and one purpose only. To stir up trouble and disrupt the forum.

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has
intended us to forgo their use.
- Galileo Galilei
 

[In a previous thread concerning Global Warming you stated -"Let's get real. Those things that effect climate the most in this world is beyond the control of mankind and is in the hands of God. When true global warming does come to this planet it won't be because of humans creating too much co2 but rather because they have turned their backs to God."Are you suggesting, as in the case of Global Warming, that we also sit back idlely and watch Islamic Fundamentalism and terrorism take its toll, because Americans "have turned their backs on God."If the "beyond the control of mankind and is in the hands of God," applies when it comes to Global Warming, why don't we sit back passively and put Homeland Security entirely into "the hands of God?"If America is worth defending from terrorists, its also worth defending from the effects of Global Warming.]

Islamic Fifth Column Getting More Stronger And More Active

The only hate crime here is the hate that these islamists are pushing against the people of the U.S. Unfortunately there are too many that don't see what is coming at them. It is a run away freight train barreling down on them with no way to get out of the way.

The more that they win in such as actions as this the more determined and bold they are getting in their actions. These islamists are getting exactly what they want ...  people that are afraid to tell the truth about them. It won't be long before they have their foothold so strong that it will be far too late to stop them.

In a previous thread concerning Global Warming you stated -

"Let's get real. Those things that effect climate the most in this world is beyond the control of mankind and is in the hands of God. When true global warming does come to this planet it won't be because of humans creating too much co2 but rather because they have turned their backs to God."

Are you suggesting, as in the case of Global Warming, that we also sit back  idlely and watch Islamic Fundamentalism and terrorism take its toll, because Americans "have turned their backs on God."

If the "beyond the control of mankind and is in the hands of God," applies when it comes to Global Warming, why don't we sit back passively and put Homeland Security entirely into "the hands of God?"

If America is worth defending from terrorists, its also worth defending from the effects of Global Warming.

[BELC Membership----------------------------------------------------------ABB Air Products Alcan Alcoa Inc. American Electric Power Bank of America Baxter International Inc. BP California Portland Cement Co. CH2M HILL Citi Cummins Inc. Deutsche Telekom DTE Energy Duke Energy DuPont Entergy Exelon GE Georgia-Pacific Hewlett-Packard Company Holcim (US) Inc. IBM Intel Interface Inc. John Hancock Financial Lockheed Martin Marsh Inc. Novartis Ontario Power Generation PG&E Corporation PNM Resources Rio Tinto Rohm and Haas Royal Dutch/Shell SC Johnson Sunoco The Boeing Company Toyota TransAlta Travelers United Technologies Weyerhaeuser Whirlpool Corporation Wisconsin Energy--------------------------------------------------------------------------------This group of so-called "environmental quacks" represent many of the "who's who" of major corporations in America - DuPont, Boeing, Toyota, IBM, Intel,John Hancock Financial, Lockheed Martin, GE, Georgia-Pacific, Hewlett-Packard.The list also includes many oil/gas, and energy companies, who to their credit, are not in a state of denial - Wisconsin Energy, Sunoco, Royal Dutch/Shell, DTE Energy, Duke Energy, Ontario Power Generation, American Electric Power, BP.These corporations are in the business of "getting real" and have the resources to do their own research and come to their own conclusions - independent of Al Gore.If these corporations didn't live in "the real world,"," they wouldn't be in business, 3.8 million employees would be out on the streets and America brought to its knees.I hope you have something more substantial than sarcastic comments about light bulbs, corn fuel products, squares of toilet paper and global warming in Neptune to support you case.]

Perhaps that's because they realize how much quack science and political agendas are involved in this global warming scam. A group of environmental quacks that think we should use light bulbs that do more damage than they do good, to use corn fuel products that cause more co2 than oil based fuel products and to use one square of toilet paper per bathroom visit. They cause more damage to humans than they do good just as they did with the banning of DDT.

Let's get real. Those things that effect climate the most in this world is beyond the control of mankind and is in the hands of God. When true global warming does come to this planet it won't be because of humans creating too much co2 but rather because they have turned their backs to God.

BELC Membership
----------------------------------------------------------
ABB
 
Air Products
 
Alcan
 
Alcoa Inc.
 
American Electric Power
 
Bank of America
 
Baxter International Inc.
 
BP
 
California Portland Cement Co.
 
CH2M HILL
 
Citi
 
Cummins Inc.
 
Deutsche Telekom
 
DTE Energy
 
Duke Energy
 
DuPont
 
Entergy
 
Exelon
 
GE
 
Georgia-Pacific
 
Hewlett-Packard Company
 
Holcim (US) Inc.
 
IBM
 
Intel
 
Interface Inc.
 
John Hancock Financial
 
Lockheed Martin
 
Marsh Inc.
 
Novartis
 
Ontario Power Generation
 
PG&E Corporation
 
PNM Resources
 
Rio Tinto
 
Rohm and Haas
 
Royal Dutch/Shell
 
SC Johnson
 
Sunoco
 
The Boeing Company
 
Toyota
 
TransAlta
 
Travelers
 
United Technologies
 
Weyerhaeuser
 
Whirlpool Corporation
 
Wisconsin Energy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This group of so-called "environmental quacks" represent many of the "who's who" of major corporations in America - DuPont, Boeing, Toyota, IBM, Intel,
John Hancock Financial, Lockheed Martin, GE, Georgia-Pacific, Hewlett-Packard.

The list also includes many oil/gas, and energy companies, who to their credit, are not in a state of denial -  Wisconsin Energy, Sunoco, Royal Dutch/Shell, DTE Energy, Duke Energy, Ontario Power Generation, American Electric Power, BP.

These corporations are in the business of "getting real" and have the resources to do their own research and come to their own conclusions - independent of Al Gore.

If these corporations didn't live in  "the real world,"," they wouldn't be in business, 3.8 million employees would be out on the streets and America brought to its knees.

I hope you have something more substantial than sarcastic comments about light bulbs, corn fuel products, squares of toilet paper and global warming in Neptune to support you case.

[The members of the BELC recognize that the risks and complexities of climate change are so important that we must work together to meet this challenge. They are united with us in several beliefs:1. We accept the views of most scientists that enough is known about the science and environmental impacts of climate change for us to take actions to address its consequences.2. Businesses can and should take concrete steps now in the U.S. and abroad to assess opportunities for emission reductions, establish and meet emission reduction objectives, and invest in new, more efficient products, practices and technologies.3.The Kyoto agreement represents a first step in the international process, but more must be done both to implement the market-based mechanisms that were adopted in principle in Kyoto and to more fully involve the rest of the world in the solution.4. We can make significant progress in addressing climate change and sustaining economic growth in the United States by adopting reasonable policies, programs and transition strategies.http://www.pewclimate.org/companies_leading_the_way_belc------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Business Environmental Leadership Committee" (BELC) - largest U.S.-based association of corporations focused on addressing the challenges of climate change, - comprised of 45 of America's major corporations- combined assets of $2.8 trillion in market capitalization - over 3.8 million employees.- represent all sectors of the economy-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The Christian Right, as usual, continues to be preoccupied with bashing Al Gore and sticking its head in sand instead of assuming a leadership role as stewards of the environment.They have squandered their opportunities and have become the laughing stock of the world. The Right has abdicated its rightful role to the degree than even the secular corporate world has finally decided "to take actions to address its consequences."]

The members of the BELC recognize that the risks and complexities of climate change are so important that we must work together to meet this challenge. They are united with us in several beliefs:

1. We accept the views of most scientists that enough is known about the science and environmental impacts of climate change for us to take actions to address its consequences.

2. Businesses can and should take concrete steps now in the U.S. and abroad to assess opportunities for emission reductions, establish and meet emission reduction objectives, and invest in new, more efficient products, practices and technologies.

3.The Kyoto agreement represents a first step in the international process, but more must be done both to implement the market-based mechanisms that were adopted in principle in Kyoto and to more fully involve the rest of the world in the solution.

4. We can make significant progress in addressing climate change and sustaining economic growth in the United States by adopting reasonable policies, programs and transition strategies.

http://www.pewclimate.org/companies_leading_the_way_belc
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Business Environmental Leadership Committee" (BELC) 

- largest U.S.-based association of corporations focused on addressing the challenges of climate change,
 
- comprised of 45 of America's major corporations

- combined assets of $2.8 trillion in market capitalization 

- over 3.8 million employees.

- represent all sectors of the economy
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Christian Right, as usual, continues to be preoccupied with bashing Al Gore and sticking its head in sand instead of assuming a leadership role as stewards of the environment.

They have squandered their opportunities and have become the laughing stock of the world.

The Right has abdicated its rightful role to the degree than even the secular corporate world has finally decided "to take actions to address its consequences."

[From 2000 to 2006, the Religious Right helped elected a Republican President, Republican House, Republican Senate and had the benefit of a conservative Supreme Court.What great successes have the Religious Right have to show after those 6 years - are they any closer to overturning Roe vs Wade?Both the Republicans and Democrats need the moderate swing vote from the center to win - and WINNING is the name of the game in politics.Since the MODERATE CENTER is not commited to the Religious Right's agenda, and the Right always votes Republican, issues like ABORTION, GAY MARRIAGE, etc. are doomed to be put on the "backburner."Any Republican Presidential candidate, including Huckabee, can only give "lip service" to the Religious Right's agenda if he's going to be president.]

From 2000 to 2006, the Religious Right helped elected a Republican President, Republican House, Republican Senate and had the benefit of a conservative Supreme Court.

What great successes have the Religious Right have to show after those 6 years - are they any closer to overturning Roe vs Wade?

Both the Republicans and Democrats need the moderate swing vote from the center to win - and WINNING is the name of the game in politics.

Since the MODERATE CENTER is not commited to the Religious Right's agenda, and the Right always votes Republican, issues like ABORTION, GAY MARRIAGE, etc. are doomed to be put on the "backburner."

Any Republican Presidential candidate, including Huckabee, can only give "lip service" to the Religious Right's agenda if he's going to be president.

[The World Health Organization's rankingof the world's health systems. (2000)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rank Country 1 France2 Italy3 San Marino4 Andorra5 Malta6 Singapore7 Spain8 Oman9 Austria10 Japan11 Norway12 Portugal13 Monaco14 Greece15 Iceland16 Luxembourg17 Netherlands18 United Kingdom19 Ireland20 Switzerland21 Belgium22 Colombia23 Sweden24 Cyprus25 Germany26 Saudi Arabia27 United Arab Emirates28 Israel29 Morocco30 Canada ***31 Finland32 Australia33 Chile34 Denmark35 Dominica36 Costa Rica37 United States of America ***38 Slovenia39 Cuba ***40 BruneiThe U. S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of gross domestic product (GDP) on health services, ranks 18th .http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------At the risk of interupting this Edwards and Clinton bashing, perhaps we could actually address the topic of healthcare and note that America's health system ranks 37th in the world, somewhere between Costa Rica and Slovenia.Based on the % of GDP spent on healthcare, Americans should expect that they have already financed the best medical system that money can buy.In theory, competition associated with capitalist healthcare system should reduce costs and make access to US medical care and perscription drugs among the most cost effective in the world.In reality, its the national public healthcare systems that have been much criticized as "socialism" and "communism" that are the most cost effective.One would expect that most people are more concerned about access to quality, affordable healthcare than "... ISMS."]

The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems. (2000)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rank       Country 

1         France
2         Italy
3         San Marino
4         Andorra
5         Malta
6         Singapore
7         Spain
8         Oman
9         Austria
10        Japan
11        Norway
12        Portugal
13        Monaco
14        Greece
15        Iceland
16        Luxembourg
17        Netherlands
18        United  Kingdom
19        Ireland
20        Switzerland
21        Belgium
22        Colombia
23        Sweden
24        Cyprus
25        Germany
26        Saudi Arabia
27        United  Arab  Emirates
28        Israel
29        Morocco
30        Canada ***
31        Finland
32        Australia
33        Chile
34        Denmark
35        Dominica
36        Costa Rica
37        United  States  of  America ***
38        Slovenia
39        Cuba ***
40        Brunei

The U. S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of gross domestic product (GDP) on health services, ranks 18th .

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At the risk of interupting this Edwards and Clinton bashing, perhaps we could actually address the topic of healthcare and note that America's health system ranks 37th in the world, somewhere between Costa Rica and Slovenia.

Based on the % of GDP spent on healthcare, Americans should expect that they have already financed the best medical system that money can buy.

In theory, competition associated with capitalist healthcare system should reduce costs and make access to US medical care and perscription drugs among the most cost effective in the world.

In reality, its the national public healthcare systems that have been much criticized as "socialism" and "communism" that are the most cost effective.

One would expect that most people are more concerned about access to quality, affordable healthcare than "... ISMS."

[ABB Air Products Alcan Alcoa Inc. American Electric Power Bank of America Baxter International Inc. BP California Portland Cement Co. CH2M HILL Citi Cummins Inc. Deutsche Telekom DTE Energy Duke Energy DuPont Entergy Exelon GE Georgia-Pacific Hewlett-Packard Company Holcim (US) Inc. IBM Intel Interface Inc. John Hancock Financial Lockheed Martin Marsh Inc. Novartis Ontario Power Generation PG&E Corporation Rio Tinto Rohm and Haas Royal Dutch/Shell SC Johnson Sunoco The Boeing Company Toyota TransAlta United Technologies Weyerhaeuser Whirlpool Corporation Wisconsin Energyhttp://www.pewclimate.org/companies_leading_the_way_belc/company_profiles/-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------These 44 corporations with a combined total of 3.8 million employees and $2.8 trillion in market capitalization are all members of the Business Environmental Leadership Council (BELC).It would appear self-evident that they have the resources and technical expertise to make an informed decision - which as one might suspect, directly contradicts the "uninformed" conclusions of Rush Limbaugh.In addition to recognizing "global warming" as a reality, the BELC also believes it can provide leadership for the business community in order to provide "effective solutions." (Business Environmental Leadership Council)-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"We (BELC) also believe that companies taking early action on climate strategies and policy will gain sustained competitive advantage over their peers."Members of the BELC believe that from a business perspective, those competitors who continue to remain in a "state of denial" over the existance of "global warming" may be among its first victims.]

Oops! Hottest U.S. years in 1930s
NASA's error correction fuels global-warming skeptics

Was 1998 the hottest year in United States history, as most reporting on climate change has presumed? Or was that record set back in 1934 before "global warming" became a scary household phrase?

A corrective tweak to National Aeronautics and Space Administration's formulation shows that the hottest year on record in the United States indeed was back during the Dust Bowl days.

But does this mean that all the concern about global warming being a relatively recent phenomenon tied to carbon-belching power plants and hulking SUVs is a bunch of Al Gore hooey?

Climate change skeptics and their cheering section among conservative bloggers and radio shoutmeisters think so -- even though most scientists say, no, the tweak is not a big deal and overall trends are in the direction of toastier days around the globe.

The controversy began "when Steve McIntyre of the blog Climateaudit.org e-mailed NASA scientists pointing out an unusual jump in temperature data from 1999 to 2000," reports The Los Angeles Times.
"When researchers checked, they found that the agency had merged two data sets that had been incorrectly assumed to match. When the data were corrected, it resulted in a decrease of 0.27 degrees Fahrenheit in yearly temperatures since 2000 and a smaller decrease in earlier years. That meant that 1998, which had been 0.02 degrees warmer than 1934, was now 0.04 degrees cooler."

Put another way, the new figures show that 4 of the 10 warmest years in the United States occurred during the 1930s, not more recently. This caused a stir among those critical of the push to stem human-induced climate change.

"Conservative radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh used reports of the revisions to argue that climate change is a hoax perpetrated by scientists with liberal agendas," reported The Washington Post.
"We have proof of man-made global warming," Limbaugh said on his show. "The man-made global warming is inside NASA. The man-made global warming is in the scientific community with false data."

Blogger Steve McIntyre, who started the controversy, lives in Canada. His hometown newspaper, The Toronto Star, headlined its story "Red faces at NASA over climate-change blunder."

"They moved pretty fast on this," McIntyre said. "There must have been some long faces."

Still, McIntyre called his finding "a micro-change," and others agree. For one, the reranking didn't affect global records, and 1998 remains tied with 2005 as the hottest year on record, the Los Angeles Times notes, quoting climatologist Gavin Schmidt of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York.

"The data adjustment changes 'the inconsequential bragging rights for certain years in the U.S.,' he said. But 'global warming is a global issue, and the global numbers show that there is no question that the last five to 10 years have been the hottest period of the last century.' "

A main target of criticism over the data shift is James Hansen, director of the Goddard Institute at NASA and a frequently quoted expert on climate change. On his Web site, Hansen explained the reasons for the change, and he played down its importance.
"How big an error did this flaw cause? ... The effect on U.S. average temperature is about 0.15°C beginning in 2000. Does this change have any affect ... on the global warming issue? Certainly not. ... What we have here is a case of ... contrarians who present results in ways intended to deceive the public into believing that the changes have greater significance than reality. They aim to make a mountain out of a mole hill."

Meanwhile, evidence of global warming continues to mount. Citing a new study by researchers at the University of East Anglia, The Guardian newspaper reports that "some tipping points for climate change could be closer than previously thought."
"In drawing together research on tipping points, where damage due to climate change occurs irreversibly and at an increasing rate, the researchers concluded that the risks were much greater than those predicted by the latest report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)."

Is the issue settled? Far from it, says Roy Spencer, a principal research scientist for the University of Alabama, who describes himself as "skeptical of the claim that global warming is mostly manmade."

Blogging on TCSDaily.com, Spencer writes:
"In case you hadn't noticed, the global warming debate has now escalated from a minor skirmish to an all-out war. ... In the last year or so, more and more scientists have been coming out of the closet and admitting they've had some doubts about this whole global warming thing."

ABB
 
Air Products
 
Alcan
 
Alcoa Inc.
 
American Electric Power
 
Bank of America
 
Baxter International Inc.
 
BP
 
California Portland Cement Co.
 
CH2M HILL
 
Citi
 
Cummins Inc.
 
Deutsche Telekom
 
DTE Energy
 
Duke Energy
 
DuPont
 
Entergy
 
Exelon
 
GE
 
Georgia-Pacific
 
Hewlett-Packard Company
 
Holcim (US) Inc.
 
IBM
 
Intel
 
Interface Inc.
 
John Hancock Financial
 
Lockheed Martin
 
Marsh Inc.
 
Novartis
 
Ontario Power Generation
 
PG&E Corporation
 
Rio Tinto
 
Rohm and Haas
 
Royal Dutch/Shell
 
SC Johnson
 
Sunoco
 
The Boeing Company
 
Toyota
 
TransAlta
 
United Technologies
 
Weyerhaeuser
 
Whirlpool Corporation
 
Wisconsin Energy

http://www.pewclimate.org/companies_leading_the_way_belc/company_profiles/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These 44 corporations with a combined total of 3.8 million employees and $2.8 trillion in market capitalization are all members of the Business Environmental Leadership Council (BELC).

It would appear self-evident that they have the resources and technical expertise to make an informed decision - which as one might suspect, directly contradicts the "uninformed" conclusions of Rush Limbaugh.

In addition to recognizing "global warming" as a reality, the BELC also believes it can provide leadership for the business community in order to provide "effective solutions."
(Business Environmental Leadership Council)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We (BELC) also believe that companies taking early action on climate strategies and policy will gain sustained competitive advantage over their peers."

Members of the BELC believe that from a business perspective, those competitors who continue to remain in a "state of denial" over the existance of "global warming" may be among its first victims.

 

[Top 50 Countries - With Highest Proportion of Atheists / Agnostics / Nonbelievers in God (Zuckerman, 2005)Country - % Atheist / Agnostic/ Nonbelievers in God -----------------------------------------------------Sweden - 46 to 85% Vietnam - 81% Denmark - 43 to 80% Norway - 31 to 72% Japan - 64 to 65%Czech Republic - 54 to 61% Finland - 28 to 60% France - 43 to 54% South Korea - 30 to 52% Estonia - 49% Germany - 41 to 49% Russia - 24 to 48% Hungary - 32 to 46%Netherlands - 39 to 44% Britain - 31 to 44% Belgium - 42 to 43% Bulgaria - 34 to 40% Slovenia - 35 to 38% Israel - 15 to 37% Canada - 19 to 30% Latvia - 20 to 29% Slovakia - 10 to 28% Switzerland - 17 to 27% Austria - 18 to 26% Australia - 24 to 25% Taiwan - 24% Spain - 15 to 24% Iceland - 16 to 23% New Zealand - 20 to 22% Ukraine - 20% Belarus - 17%Greece - 16% North Korea -15%Italy - 6 to 15% Armenia - 14% China - 8 - 14%* Lithuania - 13% Singapore - 13% Uruguay - 12% Kazakhstan - 11 to 12% Mongolia - 9% Portugal - 4 to 9% USA - 3 to 9% Albania - 8% Argentina - 4 to 8% Kyrgyzstan - 7% Dominican Republic - 7% Cuba - 7%* Croatia - 7% http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=lis...8&vc=&fp_ip=CA]

Top 50 Countries - With Highest Proportion of Atheists / Agnostics / Nonbelievers in God (Zuckerman, 2005)

Country - % Atheist / Agnostic/ Nonbelievers in God
-----------------------------------------------------
Sweden - 46 to 85%
Vietnam - 81%
Denmark - 43 to 80%
Norway - 31 to 72%
Japan - 64 to 65%
Czech Republic - 54 to 61%
Finland - 28 to 60%
France - 43 to 54%
South Korea - 30 to 52%
Estonia - 49%
Germany - 41 to 49%
Russia - 24 to 48%
Hungary - 32 to 46%
Netherlands - 39 to 44%
Britain - 31 to 44%
Belgium - 42 to 43%
Bulgaria - 34 to 40%
Slovenia - 35 to 38%
Israel - 15 to 37%
Canada - 19 to 30%
Latvia - 20 to 29%
Slovakia - 10 to 28%
Switzerland - 17 to 27%
Austria - 18 to 26%
Australia - 24 to 25%
Taiwan - 24%
Spain - 15 to 24%
Iceland - 16 to 23%
New Zealand - 20 to 22%
Ukraine - 20%
Belarus - 17%
Greece - 16%
North Korea -15%
Italy - 6 to 15%
Armenia - 14%
China - 8 - 14%*
Lithuania - 13%
Singapore - 13%
Uruguay - 12%
Kazakhstan - 11 to 12%
Mongolia - 9%
Portugal - 4 to 9%
USA - 3 to 9%
Albania - 8%
Argentina - 4 to 8%
Kyrgyzstan - 7%
Dominican Republic - 7%
Cuba - 7%*
Croatia - 7%

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=lis...8&vc=&fp_ip=CA 

- nonbelievers in God refers to the existance of a "superior being" from any the world's major religions

- data for China, North Korea and Cuba was difficult to obtain

- it would appear that Europe, the early birthplace of Christianity (Catholicism, Orthodoxism, Protestantism) has the highest concentration of atheists/agnostics and nonbelievers

- in many cases the less affluent nations that have not been as "blessed" by God in terms of their standard of living tend to have a higher % of believers

["The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example." -R. Furman, Baptist, of South Carolina"The doctrine that the earth is neither the center of the universe nor immovable, but moves even with a daily rotation, is absurd, and both philosophically and theologically false, and at the least an error of faith." -Catholic Church's decision against Galileo Galilei]

And I can see that you still do not understand the point. For every scientist that says one thing there can be found another that will say something else. So what as Christians should we believe?

Psa 18:30  As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.

Psa 118:8  It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

Pro 3:5  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Again I post this verse, the words of the Lord:

Gen 8:22  While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

I am merely using the same argument that you introduced in an attempt to discredit corporate members of the BELC - conflict of interest.

Some of the "scientists" introduced have their degrees in mathematics, agronomy, geology, social anthropology -  not climatology.  Many are from Canada, New Zealand and the Netherlands - not America. One is even an energy consultant at Sioux Lookout of all places - have you ever been or even heard of Sioux Lookout (there are no roads - you have to fly in).

To somehow associate Trust in God and Bible quotations with dismissing "global warming" does the Scriptures a disservice.

"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example."
-R. Furman, Baptist, of South Carolina

"The doctrine that the earth is neither the center of the universe nor immovable, but moves even with a daily rotation, is absurd, and both philosophically and theologically false, and at the least an error of faith."
-Catholic Church's decision against Galileo Galilei

If "global warming" " becomes a reality, non Believers will turn use statements by Christian conservatives in an attempt to discredit the faith.  Slavery and the belief in a "flat earth" also used the Gospel to convince large numbers of Christains to justify and support their existance as part of God's order in the universe.

Why do Christians continue to take the Bible out of context to support causes for which it was never intended?

[The letter also recommends that Bush "dismiss or re-assign all administration employees who are not pursuing your agenda, just as you have done in several similar instances."]

The Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow (CFACT), a free-market policy organization, was created to offer a "new voice" on consumer and environmental issues.

- established in 1985, is a member and organizer of the Cooler Heads Coalition and the National Consumer Coalition.

-  free market think tank focuses on campus organizing and getting their message to the public through research, media exposure, and a national radio commentary called "Just the Facts" that is broadcast on 300 stations daily.

- CFACT's Board of Academic and Scientific Advisors is a who's who of climate skeptics and industry-funded scientists.

- "are two of the primary voices seeking to provide a positive alternative to major environmental groups like Greenpeace, the Sierra Club, and Friends of the Earth."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- received $710, 000 between 1991 and 2002 from Richard Mellon Scaife controlled foundations, the Carthage Foundation and the Sarah Scaife Foundation.[/b]

KEY QUOTES - 12 November, 2001
"In short, as science becomes more advanced it seems that the one thing is clear: While ice caps may be growing, and coral reefs are remaining resilient, the one thing that is dwindling for sure is the case for global warming."
Source: Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow CFACT Website 5/03

7 April, 2004 - "President Bush, of course, deserves even more credit for showing leadership in putting the breaks on this misguided treaty. When he first refused to go along with the Kyoto Protocol, howls of protest went up from those decrying his insensitivity to addressing this 'pressing' problem. Since then, however, nations such as Japan, Australia, Russia, and now Germany have likewise backpeddled on Kyoto compliance. One can't help but think, now in this baseball season, that maybe this President, a former owner of the Texas Rangers, knows when, and when not, to play ball."

7 June, 2002 - President David Rothbard signed a letter to President Bush, asking him to withdraw the "Climate Action Report 2002" and demand that it be rewritten based on "sound science". The letter also recommends that Bush "dismiss or re-assign all administration employees who are not pursuing your agenda, just as you have done in several similar instances."
Source: Joint Letter To President Bush On The EPA's Climate Action Report 6/7/02

2 August, 2002 - Wrote to President Bush, discouraging him from attending the UN Summit on Sustainable Development. Bush did not attend.
Source: "Corporate-funded Lobbyists Aimed to Sabotage Johannesburg Summit," Africa News, 8/19/2002
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FUNDING

Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow has received $472,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.

1998
$5,000 ExxonMobil Corporate Giving
Source: ExxonMobil 1998 grants list

2000
$110,000 ExxonMobil Foundation
project support
Source: ExxonMobil Foundation 2000 IRS 990

2001
$35,000 ExxonMobil Foundation
Source: ExxonMobil 2001 Annual Report

2002
$35,000 ExxonMobil Foundation
Source: ExxonMobil 2002 Annual Report

2003
$25,000 ExxonMobil Foundation
Climate Change Issues
Source: ExxonMobil 2003 Corporate Giving Report

2003
$47,000 ExxonMobil Foundation
General Operating Support
Source: ExxonMobil 2003 Corporate Giving Report

2004
$35,000 ExxonMobil Foundation
Climate Change Issues
Source: Exxon Giving Report 2004

2004
$40,000 ExxonMobil Foundation
General Operating Support
Source: Exxon Giving Report 2004

2004
$50,000 ExxonMobil Foundation
Grassroots Efforts on Climate Change Issues
Source: Exxon Giving Report 2004

2005
$90,000 ExxonMobil Foundation
Source: ExxonMobil 2005 DIMENSIONS Report (Corporate Giving)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KEY PEOPLE

David Rothbard
President
Source: Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow CFACT Website 5/06

Hugh Ellsaesser
Board of Academic and Scientific Advisors
Source: Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow CFACT Website 5/06

Howard Hayden
Board of Academic and Scientific Advisors
Source: Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow CFACT Website 5/06

http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/orgfactsheet.phpid=25
__________________________________________________________________________ _____
What a coincidence - even more names from the "global warming" skeptics list on another industry "think tank" financed by corporations like MobilExxon and the Richard Mellon Scaife controlled foundations, the Carthage Foundation.  As previously stated, the latter gave a $330 000 grant to Western Journalism Center which owns WorldNetDaily and Whistleblower Magazine).

I think that many scientist throw common sense out the window when money is involved. 

FRED SINGER

- accused of conflicts of interest, most notably involving financial ties to oil and tobacco companies  (Philip Morris)

- 1994 - co-authored report attacking EPA regulation of environmental tobacco smoke funded by the Tobacco Institute

- involved with the International Center for a Scientific Ecology, a group  considered important in Philip Morris' plans to create a group in Europe similar to The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition (TASSC).

- Singer is a Research Fellow at the Independent Institute another recipient of Philip Morris and ExxonMobil funds.

- serves on the Science Advisory Board of the American Council on Science and Health (ACSH) that opposes smoking but supports industry positions on health issues, for example downplaying risks associated with dioxin, asbestos, and other carcinogenic materials

-  Singer's non-profit corporation SEPP received multiple grants from ExxonMobil, including in 1998 and 2000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Singer
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Singer, whose name was included on the list as one of the "global warming" skeptics, would appear to have financial connections with both Philip Morris and ExxonMobil

As previously stated, common sense can go out the window when money is involved.

BBC show exposes global warming 'lies' 
Documentary's scientists, climatologists agree: 'The whole thing stinks'

"THE ICE IS MELTING," blares the opening headline in the latest TV documentary on global warming. Amid thunderous music and video bites of furious ocean waves, melting glaciers and tornadoes, the headlines continue:

"THE SEA IS RISING."

"HURRICANES ARE BLOWING."

"AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT."

But then, the dramatic BBC documentary deviates from the rest of today's dire presentations on impending global-warming disaster. The headlines continue:

"SCARED?"

"DON'T BE."

"IT'S NOT TRUE."

In "The Great Global Warming Swindle," British TV director Martin Durkin interviews scientist after scientist who claim the current hysteria over global warming is, in a word, nonsense.

Here's how the announcer introduces the controversy at the outset of the 60-minute program:

    "Manmade global warming is no longer just a theory about climate change. It is the defining moral and political cause of our age. Campaigners say the time for debate is over. Any criticism, no matter how scientifically rigorous, is illegitimate – even worse, dangerous.

    "But in this film, it will be shown that the earth's climate is always changing, that there is nothing unusual about the current temperature, and that the scientific evidence does not support the notion that climate is driven by carbon dioxide, manmade or otherwise.

    "Everywhere, you are told that manmade climate change is proved beyond doubt.

    "But you are being told lies."

Currently, the video is going viral in the online world, and threatens to break the stranglehold that global-warming hysteria has on the world's major media.

But what's behind the hysteria?

The current edition of WND's popular Whistleblower magazine – titled "HYSTERIA: Exposing the secret agenda behind today's obsession with global warming" – reveals why so many scientists, journalists and others are so gripped by global warming fever.

Whistleblower shows how all the main players – from politicians and scientists to big corporations and the United Nations – benefit from instilling fear into billions of human beings over the unproven theory of man-made global warming. Indeed, just three weeks after the U.N. ratcheted up international fears over global warming, a panel of 18 scientists from 11 countries has now reported to the U.N. that the only thing that can stop catastrophic climate change is a global tax.

Whistleblower Magazine

associated with WorldNetDaily (WND) - contributors include Pat Buchanan, Ann Coulter, David Limbaugh (Rush's brother)
- majority ownership by Western Journalism Center and Joseph Farah - 75 other private shareholders

Western Jouralism Center - founded by Joseph Farah who co-authored book with Rush Limbaugh and worked on Arkansas Project to impeach Clinton
- received $330 000 grant from Richard Mellon Scaife (Carthage Foundation)

Richard Mellon Scaife
- a major, early supporter of the Heritage Foundation, which has since become one of Washington's most influential public policy research institutes. Later, he supported such varied conservative and libertarian organizations as:

American Enterprise Institute
Atlas Economic Research Foundation
Center for the Study of Popular Culture (headed by David Horowitz)
Federalist Society
Foundation for Economic Education
Free Congress Foundation (headed by Paul Weyrich)
Freedom House
GOPAC (headed by Newt Gingrich)
Independent Women's Forum
Intercollegiate Studies Institute (which operates the Collegiate Network)
Judicial Watch
Landmark Legal Foundation
Media Research Center (headed by Brent Bozell)
Pacific Legal Foundation
Pittsburgh World Affairs Council
Reason Foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Mellon_Scaife

- by 1998 his foundations were listed among donors to over 100 such groups, to which he had disbursed some $340 million by 2002.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on its background, Whistleblower Magazine has a definite "right wing" agenda and hardly an unbiased source.
Solar cycles, melting on Mars, eating soy - not exactly a reflection of mainstream science.

"WorldNetDaily published an article in December 2006 written by Jim Rutz of "Megashift Ministries" where he claimed that eating soy at a young age increases the chance that a child will be gay, and that soy's estrogen content will feminize a young boy.
Such claims are contradicted by research done by scientists at the University of Pennsylvania.
The article was referenced by Frank Rich in a New York Times op-ed piece on December 17, 2006, describing the reaction to homosexuality in the Republican Party.
The liberal advocacy organization People For the American Way mocked Rutz's claims in their online "RightWing Watch" feature, commenting "sometimes you just have to marvel at the things published by WorldNetDaily."
In response to the interest in the article, WorldNetDaily later published columns by Rutz providing documentation to back up his claims."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldNetDaily

Countries that allow homosexual people to serve openly

Argentina[1]
Australia
Austria
The Bahamas
Belgium
Bulgaria[2]
Canada
Colombia
Croatia[2]
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia [3]
Finland
France
Germany
Hungary
Ireland
Israel
Italy[2]
Lithuania
Luxembourg
The Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Peru
Poland
Portugal[2]
Romania[4]
Slovenia
South Africa
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
Thailand
United Kingdom

Even Israel , which receives approximately 1/3 of all US international aid allows gays in the military.

Nations and overnments are secular, not religious, institutions.

With the exception of marriage, government cannot deprive citizens of their rights based on their sexual orientation.

The military is also a secular government institution under the Department and subject to the laws of the country.  It could be argued that even the Commander and Chief could be gay.

For practical purposes, even if the military knew the names of all 65 000 gays in the forces, it doesn't have 65 000 trained heterosexuals to replace them.


 

"We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand."
-James Watt, Secretary of the Interior during the Regan years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Are you contending the the scientific community and the following members of the BELC are part of an international conspiracy ?
 
ABB
 Air Products
 Alcan
 Alcoa Inc.
 American Electric Power
 Bank of America
 Baxter International Inc.
 The Boeing Company
 BP
 California Portland Cement Co.
 CH2M HILL
 Cummins Inc.
 Deutsche Telekom
 DTE Energy
 Duke Energy
 DuPont
 Entergy
 Exelon
 GE
 Georgia-Pacific
 Hewlett-Packard Company
 Holcim (US) Inc.
 IBM
 Intel
 Interface Inc.
 John Hancock Financial
 Lockheed Martin
 Marsh, Inc.
 Novartis
 Ontario Power Generation
 PG&E Corporation
 Rio Tinto
 Rohm and Haas
 Royal Dutch/Shell
 SC Johnson
 Sunoco
 Toyota
 TransAlta
 United Technologies
 Weyerhaeuser
 Whirlpool Corporation
 Wisconsin Energy

2. Can you produce the names and findings of some of these scientists who have "nothing to gain in either direction."

3. " 8: And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I am the LORD which sanctify you.
   9: For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.'
-Leviticus 20:8-9

Can Christians quote Genesis 8:22 but not Leviticus 20:9 ?

Business Environmental Leadership Council (BELC)
Related Content
 BELC Company GHG Reduction Targets

The Pew Center's Business Environmental Leadership Council (BELC) was created at the Center’s inception under the belief that business engagement is critical for developing efficient, effective solutions to the climate problem.  We
also believe that companies taking early action on climate strategies and policy will gain sustained competitive advantage over their peers. 

The BELC is now the largest U.S.-based association of corporations focused on addressing the challenges
of climate change, with 42 members representing $2.4 trillion in market capitalization and over 3.3 million employees.

 ABB
 Air Products
 Alcan
 Alcoa Inc.
 American Electric Power
 Bank of America
 Baxter International Inc.
 The Boeing Company
 BP
 California Portland Cement Co.
 CH2M HILL
 Cummins Inc.
 Deutsche Telekom
 DTE Energy
 Duke Energy
 DuPont
 Entergy
 Exelon
 GE
 Georgia-Pacific
 Hewlett-Packard Company
 Holcim (US) Inc.
 IBM
 Intel
 Interface Inc.
 John Hancock Financial
 Lockheed Martin
 Marsh, Inc.
 Novartis
 Ontario Power Generation
 PG&E Corporation
 Rio Tinto
 Rohm and Haas
 Royal Dutch/Shell
 SC Johnson
 Sunoco
 Toyota
 TransAlta
 United Technologies
 Weyerhaeuser
 Whirlpool Corporation
 Wisconsin Energy
http://www.pewclimate.org/companies_leading_the_way_belc/company_profiles/index.cfm

Corporations with a combined total of 3.3 million employees and $2.4 trillion in market capitalization have the personel and scientific expertise to evaluate whether "global warming" is "hysteria" or based on the best scientific research available.

In addition to the general concensus of the world scientific community, can the "global warming" skeptics also match the scientific and corporate resources available to BELC ?